Topic: Winning Title #19*

[Zoomers]

It's the weakest league in living memory apparently .... in which case european football must be right in the shitter
English clubs took all 4 spaces in the major finals last season and that doesn't include City

It's looking weak because we're too fucking good.

[smutchin]

Newcastle were 12 clear and equal games played on 20th January 1996 (they played that day):

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/20-january-1996/

I don't remember the details from memory, but I'm taking the Premier League's own data as definitive. They reckon Newcastle were never more than 9pts clear with a game in hand, and United had already overturned the deficit and taken the lead before they were back level on games, which didn't happen until towards the very end of the season.
https://www.premierleague.com/match/1623

I suspect the 12pt lead is one of those things that has become true through repetition, like the myth some City fans peddle that we were 10pts clear at some point around last Christmas.
[Edit: I've realised my mistake - Newcastle played on the Saturday that weekend while United played on the Monday, so they were indeed temporarily 12 points clear on equal games]

Anyway, whatever the truth, it's clear that this season is nothing like the 95/96 season. United won the title with 82 points that year. We could feasibly reach that total by March.

[Tame_Impala]

In a strange way I’m glad it did. Not because we lost the chance to win the league (that was terrible), but  because we know have a manager that chimes with me. Chimes with the rest of us. Chimes with the team. Everyone working to one aim. It’s glorious. I would be happy if we had just this version of Liverpool with this manager. Luckily, the players and Klopp aren’t so complacent and will hopefully fulfill the promise of the first half of the season.

I always wondered what would have happened if we did win that title. Don't get me wrong it would have been incredible and the party would have been something else, but I still think Suarez would have left in the summer & I still think we wouldn't have made the right moves on the recruitment front. I've read interviews with some of the ex-players who were in that side and I don't even think many of them bought into the hype. I think it was Glen Johnson who said recently that a lot of the squad felt like 2014 was a "now or never" moment, as everything seemed to align and we had the wind in our sails during that run at the end, and that the players were fully aware that even with a title win, the club wouldn't be unable to compete financially with the likes of United, City & Chelsea the following season. I think missing out on Sanchez proved to be massive for us at the time, but even then, he chose Arsenal mainly because he wanted to live in London and I don't think us winning the title would have done much to sway his decision.

So what would have happened if we'd have won the title but started to regress on a similar pattern to we saw from 2014/2015 onwards? Surely it would have bought Rodgers some more time, but would he have been given untouchable godlike status? We saw how FSG washed their hands of Kenny in 2012 so I don't think they'd have much room for sentimentality if we did continue to under perform. When would we have parted ways with Rodgers? Would Klopp have still joined if he was available? I'm sure one of the motivating factors he did join was to try and win us our elusive 19th title, if somebody had already delivered that then the challenge would have maybe not have been as appealing to him.

Maybe Gerrard would have finished his career here, he did mention that one of the main reasons he moved to LA was the fallout from 2014 & wanting to take a break from it all. Maybe he would have retired earlier, went straight into a coaching role at the club and taken over from Rodgers when he left. Would be interesting just to glimpse into the parallel universe & see what happened.

Or maybe not, because I think I probably would have died sometime during May 2014 if we actually had managed to get over the line

[smutchin]

Would be interesting just to glimpse into the parallel universe & see what happened.

It'll be one of those Back to the Future Pt II things, where you go back in your time machine and change history so we win the league, but when you come back you find that Jurgen Klopp is now manager of Man United, and we've got Big Sam leading us in the fight against relegation...

[Red_Rich]

Weak league my arse. If it's so weak then why aren't City pasting everybody 5-0 as they're supposed to be " the best team in premier league history?! "

Truth is... look at the table below us. Teams in the top 6 all losing 5-7 games would suggest that anyone can beat anyone in this league (usually what's trotted out and said when they think it's a strong league)

This time the only difference is there's a superteam in there called Liverpool FC.

[Schmarn]

I still remember Glen Johnson turning his back on Delaney's shot that was Palace's first goal that night. No way that happens with this team. Then there was Mamadou Sakho who had the turning circle of a stricken oil freighter. Light years from where we are now.

I like to think that we had to go through that pain to get where we are now. It's quite possible that had we won the league that year, complacency would have prevented a proper reboot for several years after that by which time Klopp could have gone elsewhere, possibly to one of our rivals. Now that's a terrible thought.

[Tame_Impala]

It'll be one of those Back to the Future Pt II things, where you go back in your time machine and change history so we win the league, but when you come back you find that Jurgen Klopp is now manager of Man United, and we've got Big Sam leading us in the fight against relegation...

"May 2024... It's the 10 year anniversary of Liverpool's 19th title win, but celebrations are fairly muted & the achievement has been more or less whitewashed from history, due to the recent allegations coming to light involving Brendan Rodgers & activities with dogs.

Although just down the M62, the mood is much more jovial, as Jurgen Klopp's United secure their 25th League title & 6th European Cup"

[U-238A]

Let them play mental gymnastics. I love watching them make as many excuses as they can to try to convince themselves that this Liverpool side is not that good, that we're lucky, that the league's quality is rubbish. They'll say anything to downplay the achievements and records of this team. Yet they'll keep watching us, checking the score, hoping we drop points and talking about us because we'll just keep winning. I wouldn't have it any other way.


On the topic of clenching or not, stay clenched. Not because there's still doubt whether we're winning it, but whether we'll win it as Invincible Centurions. Can't imagine how glorious it could be.

[liverbloke]

I still remember Glen Johnson turning his back on Delaney's shot that was Palace's first goal that night. No way that happens with this team. Then there was Mamadou Sakho who had the turning circle of a stricken oil freighter. Light years from where we are now.

I like to think that we had to go through that pain to get where we are now. It's quite possible that had we won the league that year, complacency would have prevented a proper reboot for several years after that by which time Klopp could have gone elsewhere, possibly to one of our rivals. Now that's a terrible thought.

This ain't Sliding fuckin Doors mate - it didn't happen, we are top of the league.

[calvin]

Who the feck is saying its the weakest league in living memory as after last season we had to take on the philosophy that we cannot lose one game this season. Never has a team started a season thinking if we lose a game nevermind three or four it may not be enough to win the title. Jaysus if anything this league is harder to win than ever before as you have potential CL winners all over the shop from City, Us and even Spurs before their bleep.

The weakest league narrative being trotted out is BS. Didn't 4 premier league teams just make the 2 European finals. If anything, it is the strongest.

[Red_Rich]

Conte's Chelsea smashed the league in 2017 and City's the following year. Effectively all over by Christmas. No one was calling it a weak league then! Oh no ... it was still "Premier League ... hardest league in the world to win"

Fucking hypocritical, goalposts-moving revisionist twats!

[MJD-L4]

The weakest league narrative being trotted out is BS. Didn't 4 premier league teams just make the 2 European finals. If anything, it is the strongest.

The thing that sets the PL apart is the quality of the bottom half teams. Anyone can beat anyone (apart from us  ). The rest of the top European leagues are filled with 2 or 3 very good teams then a load of shite. Even Norwich would probably finish mid table in La Liga.

[Tame_Impala]

The weakest league narrative being trotted out is BS. Didn't 4 premier league teams just make the 2 European finals. If anything, it is the strongest.

Make you laugh don't they. Leicester won the title on 76 points the other year

[MJD-L4]

Make you laugh don't they. Leicester won the title on 76 points the other year

81.

[Tame_Impala]

81.

They finished the season with 81 points but I believe they won the title on 76

[MJD-L4]

They finished the season with 81 points but I believe they won the title on 76

Ah I see what you were getting at, my mistake.

 They won it by 10 points so you could reinforce your point further and say that they could have won it with 72 points. A fantastic achievement but they really were helped out by everyone else being shit that year.

[Barneylfc∗]

Weak League is the newest conspiracy eh? OK so let's compare top 4s!

1    Liverpool   61   
2    Man City   47   
3    Leicester   45   
4    Chelsea   39

Bundesliga:
1    RB Leipzig   37   
2    M'gladbach   35   
3    Bayern           33   
4    Dortmund           30

Serie A:
1    Juventus   48   
2    Inter   46   
3    Lazio        42   
4    Atalanta   35

La Liga:
1    Barcelona           40   
2    Real Madrid   40   
3    Atlético           35   
4    Sevilla           35

- they look pretty comparable to me! We're ahead of everyone else. But City on 47 are only 1 behind the next highest, Juventus!

So er.... the PL is worse how?

Oh yeah cause we're doing well.

It's pretty easy to dispel the myth that it's the weakest it's ever been.

2017/18
- 2 Champions League quarter finalists, 1 went on to reach the final
- 2 participants in the Group stages of the Europa League, Everton and Arsenal. Arsenal reached the semi final and beaten by Atletico.

2018/19
- 4 Champions League quarter finalists, 2 went on to reach the final and obviously 1 was the victor. (No other country had more than 1 in the quarter final)
- 2 participants in the Group stages of the Europa League, Chelsea and Arsenal. Both won their groups and both went on to reach the final.

2019/20
- Again, all 4 clubs through to the knockout round of the Champions League.  Spain also have 4, with Germany and Italy on 3
- 3 participants in the Group stages of the Europa League, Wolves, Man Utd and Arsenal. 2 group winners and a runner up therefore all 3 in the knock out stages
- World Champions are from England

Looks to me like the league is pretty strong compared to the rest of Europe. Or are the rest of Europe just really shit too?

[Tame_Impala]

Ah I see what you were getting at, my mistake.

 They won it by 10 points so you could reinforce your point further and say that they could have won it with 72 points. A fantastic achievement but they really were helped out by everyone else being shit that year.

Yep, not to demean the achievement in any way because it is still absolutely fantastic & you can only beat what's in front of you, but it felt like Arsenal and Spurs were trying their best not to win the league at certain points during that year. I think City will still end up with 85-90 points this season which is probably more than most winning teams have managed since the league started so it's not as though we haven't been challenged. Just been substantially better ((touch wood)) (up to now)

[Snail]

Make you laugh don't they. Leicester won the title on 76 points the other year

Yeah if any league title of recent times "needs an asterisk putting next to it", it's that.

[Tame_Impala]

It's pretty easy to dispel the myth that it's the weakest it's ever been.

2017/18
- 2 Champions League quarter finalists, 1 went on to reach the final
- 2 participants in the Group stages of the Europa League, Everton and Arsenal. Arsenal reached the semi final and beaten by Atletico.

2018/19
- 4 Champions League quarter finalists, 2 went on to reach the final and obviously 1 was the victor. (No other country had more than 1 in the quarter final)
- 2 participants in the Group stages of the Europa League, Chelsea and Arsenal. Both won their groups and both went on to reach the final.

2019/20
- Again, all 4 clubs through to the knockout round of the Champions League.  Spain also have 4, with Germany and Italy on 3
- 3 participants in the Group stages of the Europa League, Wolves, Man Utd and Arsenal. 2 group winners and a runner up therefore all 3 in the knock out stages
- World Champions are from England

Looks to me like the league is pretty strong compared to the rest of Europe. Or are the rest of Europe just really shit too?

Of course the rest of Europe is shit - How else do you think we would have managed to win the Champions League? Not like we're actually any good, or anything

[MJD-L4]

Yep, not to demean the achievement in any way because it is still absolutely fantastic & you can only beat what's in front of you, but it felt like Arsenal and Spurs were trying their best not to win the league at certain points during that year. I think City will still end up with 85-90 points this season which is probably more than most winning teams have managed since the league started so it's not as though we haven't been challenged. Just been substantially better ((touch wood)) (up to now)

Mad to think that the 15/16 league title could have been won with 72 points, which we could reach against Southampton on 1st Feb. Crazy. 

[newterp]

Yeah if any league title of recent times "needs an asterisk putting next to it", it's that.

Not sure that's fair. Leicester won the league without VAR which we all know was brought in to fix allow the cheatingLiverpool were doing.

[#RedDawn2020]

Yeah if any league title of recent times "needs an asterisk putting next to it", it's that.

No, everyone including Manchester City fans and their dogs, know that if there is an asterisk next to any achievements, it’s next to theirs.

*All titles courtesy of rightfully earned net spend of 1.4 billion pounds since 2008.

[Mr_Shane]

Jordan Henderson remembers losing the title to City under Rodgers. Jordan Henderson remembers losing the title to City last year. Jordan Henderson - our present captain will not forget. I am certain that he will make sure we keep our standards high until we win the title. I hear it in his interviews and it is in his performance on the pitch.

[#RedDawn2020]

Mad to think that the 15/16 league title could have been won with 72 points, which we could reach against Southampton on 1st Feb. Crazy. 

What is really mad is that Pep’s City was not good enough to finish on 82 points when they were in the lead that season for a large number of match days. League bottlers!

[LallanaInPyjamas]

What is really mad is that Pep’s City was not good enough to finish on 82 points when they were in the lead that season for a large number of match days. League bottlers!

That was Pellegrini's last season.

If anyone bottled the league it was probably Arsenal. They were top after beating Leicester on Valentine's Day and had Ozil and Sanchez in the form of their careers.

[pguyo]

"May 2024... It's the 10 year anniversary of Liverpool's 19th title win, but celebrations are fairly muted & the achievement has been more or less whitewashed from history, due to the recent allegations coming to light involving Brendan Rodgers & activities with dogs.

Although just down the M62, the mood is much more jovial, as Jurgen Klopp's United secure their 25th League title & 6th European Cup"

Oh god I think I just got a little sick in my mouth..........

[tubby]

Guys... I had a dream last night that we won the league.

[Crosby Nick]

Can't believe that Newcastle side are getting spoken about in the same breath - they couldn't defend! Whereas we've got the best defence in the league, having conceded 7 fewer goals than the next best AND just just racked up a 6th straight clean sheet. And we've only let in more than 1 goal in a league match once.

They conceded 4 fewer than champions Man United! But your point still stands, more of a mad one about United really. Conceded 44 that season.

[Crosby Nick]

Guys... I had a dream last night that we won the league.

Finally we get something official.

When’s the parade?

[Qston]

Guys... I had a dream last night that we won the league.

Did Scarlett Johansson go the game with you ?

[tubby]

Finally we get something official.

When’s the parade?

There was a proper weird parade, actually.  American-style ticker tape with the players in convertible cars driving down the street.

Did Scarlett Johansson go the game with you ?

Waited at home.

[Qston]

There was a proper weird parade, actually.  American-style ticker tape with the players in convertible cars driving down the street.

Waited at home.

So a weird hybrid between a title winning parade and landing on the moon followed by a chat with Scarlett. Like it. I am sold.

[Red Beret]

Guys... I had a dream last night that we won the league.

Last night I had a dream that Jurgen Klopp was our manager.

Then I woke up... and smiled. 

[the_red_pill]

It wasnt weak last year when city won it but since we are in pole position its weak

What we're doing is just unbelievable and these brainwashed supporters from the big clubs and those of the oil barons just cannot wrap their heads around the fact that their teams have spent billions, yet we're surpassing them all. They've had to spend so much money to get where they are and we're still on top.

It's so unbelievable that the next "best" explanation must be that it's a weak league. If it's not VAR, it's "Lucky Liverpool"... now it's a weak league.

Anything... Anything- just as long as "those Scousers" just do not get the praise.
"Is it really possible? Are they really that great? No... can't be.
What does that say about us!?
There MUST BE something else going on here.."

[smutchin]

These are the same cretins who were writing off Jurgen Klopp as a serial loser a couple of seasons ago. It's because they can't see past the end of their own nose, they don't get that this season is the culmination of four years meticulous planning, utter dedication in training and sheer bloody hard work. They simply don't understand that we have actually earned this. Their tiny minds can't compute how this is even possible.

And I don't give a flying fuck what a single one of them thinks. I'm just enjoying watching my team play some magnificent football.

[Crosby Nick]

These are the same cretins who were writing off Jurgen Klopp as a serial loser a couple of seasons ago. It's because they can't see past the end of their own nose, they don't get that this season is the culmination of four years meticulous planning, utter dedication in training and sheer bloody hard work. They simply don't understand that we have actually earned this. Their tiny minds can't compute how this is even possible.

And I don't give a flying fuck what a single one of them thinks. I'm just enjoying watching my team play some magnificent football.

“The German Cheerleader”

How’s that working out for them?

[Philby]

How Liverpool Surpassed the Golden State Warriors
Ryan O'Hanlon

https://nograssintheclouds.substack.com/p/how-liverpool-surpassed-the-golden?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0MzMwOTY3LCJwb3N0X2lkIjoyMjM4MDgsIl8iOiJSTjhOMCIsImlhdCI6MTU3OTAxMzA5OCwiZXhwIjoxNTc5MDE2Njk4LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItNDA4MCIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.AdjXFb9T1n3GIXPohrSqjQqsQ3rblmUnsgTPo4Og6fI

[Schmarn]

Here's the thing. Despite all their recent silverware, City fans hate the fact that no one else acknowledges their achievements. They feel entitled to approbation and get angry when the rest of us don't bend the knee or when we point out that they have bought their success. That's why they come up with this crap now and that's why I really don't care what they say nor do I feel the need to explain why they are wrong about the league being weak, and so on. It's like fact checking Trump. Better to just laugh at them or sarcastically agree with them.

Interestingly most United fans I know will openly admit that we are a great side and that Klopp is a fantastic manager. They still hate us but they respect us (which is pretty much how I felt about them during their period of domination). City fans by contrast struggle because they cannot conceive how it is that we have unseated them. One of their two songs is about us losing a CL final two years ago.

I prefer to focus on the positive. We have an incredible side that has an opportunity to make history and dominate beyond this season. Enjoy every minute of it.

[Izzy]

I used to go on blue moon to read their comments and they are self entitled twats. They cant believe that a team without their financial clout could be better than them. They are all arrogant pricks. Now i go on there and revel in the fume they have over us. Classless pricks