Topic: Winning Title #19*

[redk84]

we are not chasing the title. the title is chasing us

we're trying to play it cool and ignore it but it keeps coming on to us. slut

[King Kenny 7]

we are not chasing the title. the title is chasing us

we're trying to play it cool and ignore it but it keeps coming on to us. slut

I like it! 

[Carra-ton]

People worrying about United, let me tell you that Wolves and Southampton are the harder fixtures. Southampton is off the charts in pressing numbers and runs, and Danny Ings is playing like Aguero in his prime at the moment. On form Southampton are the second best team over the last 6 games behind us. That will be a tough test, tougher than United, especially if we are on our game.

[PHIL.]

What the people worrying seem to overlook is that two highly unlikely things would have to occur for us to not win it from this position:

1) Liverpool would need to go on a really bad run of form that we haven't seen in a long time.

and

2) At the same time, City would have to win every single game.

They're both unlikely to occur, but extremely unlikely to occur at the same time.

[spider-neil]

They beat City.

So did Norwich. Someone was going to say it


But yes, will be a hard game.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Joe Gomez last 10 games:

10 wins.
0 draws.
0 losses.

1 goal conceded.

Delighted for him. I worried the whole Sterling thing & how a pathetic section of the England 'supporters' booed him would effect him off the pitch & thus on it, far from it with this kid. Monster

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

How about a 400m race? 

It doesn't quite work as an analogy, but sort of helps map out the gap between the teams and how far there is to go.  If you assume that 400m is 114 points (the maximum), that means that every game is about 10.5 metres (for 3 points, or 3.5m per point).  If there's a runner at 100%, and the PL teams following behind, we're at 214m (but we have a game in hand, so it looks like we've lost that game in the illustration), City are at 164m, Leicester at 157m, etc.  Norwich haven't travelled 50m yet!

Once the 100% runner reaches the finish line, everyone stops. Which is where the analogy breaks down somewhat.

I like it. I think the finish line should be 95 points though, which would make it look it even better for us.

[PHIL.]

A question for the doubters:

At what point would you accept that it's over?

I keep seeing people saying "After January we will know", but we saw people saying "After December we will know", so do we then have the same people saying "After February we will know"?

There must surely be a point where you ignore the mathematical certainty argument and simply trust Klopp and this squad? They aren't in this position by accident.

[Chakan]

A question for the doubters:

At what point would you accept that it's over?

I keep seeing people saying "After January we will know", but we saw people saying "After December we will know", so do we then have the same people saying "After February we will know"?

There must surely be a point where you ignore the mathematical certainty argument and simply trust Klopp and this squad? They aren't in this position by accident.

When it's mathematically impossible.

[kesey]

When it's mathematically impossible.

Is the correct answer but if City lose points before us I will get a little excited.

[spider-neil]

When it's mathematically impossible.

This.

[Jookie]

A question for the doubters:

At what point would you accept that it's over?

When we have more points than it's mathematically possible for any of the other 19 teams to achieve.

Whilst probability, and common sense, indicates that any team would win the league form this position in the vast majority of cases you can hardly blame people for wanting to keep their powder dry with 17 games (and 51 points) still to go.

For me it's not about being a doubter. It's about humility and keeping on the rack that has served us so well. What's their to gain from proclaiming the season is over now? Unless you want other people to agree so it calms some nagging doubt or lack of confidence in our ability to complete the job.

There's nothing wrong with saying knock the title talk, when we win the league and when is parade chat on the head. It's not about being a doubter. It's about enjoying the here and now. Enjoying the next game for what it is -  the next step on a wider journey. The better enjoyment is to take each game at a time and enjoy each one. The final prize will still be there to enjoy at the end. A parade will probably happen at some point. We might win more than 1 trophy. Don't see the need to proclaim 'it's over' by some of our fanbase.

[Son of Spion]

When it's mathematically impossible.

Spot on for me.

Old school approach I know, but no chickens will be counted by me until then.

Until then, it might look/feel like it's over, but it's not. There is still one hell of a lot of hard work to be done yet. Thankfully, the people who matter the most when it comes to attitude and approach are the players and management, and they are fully aware that the right mindset and focus is crucial from here on in.

[newterp]

When we have more points than it's mathematically possible for any of the other 19 teams to achieve.

Whilst probability, and common sense, indicates that any team would win the league form this position in the vast majority of cases you can hardly blame people for wanting to keep their powder dry with 17 games (and 51 points) still to go.

For me it's not about being a doubter. It's about humility and keeping on the rack that has served us so well. What's their to gain from proclaiming the season is over now? Unless you want other people to agree so it calms some nagging doubt or lack of confidence in our ability to complete the job.

There's nothing wrong with saying knock the title talk, when we win the league and when is parade chat on the head. It's not about being a doubter. It's about enjoying the here and now. Enjoying the next game for what it is -  the next step on a wider journey. The better enjoyment is to take each game at a time and enjoy each one. The final prize will still be there to enjoy at the end. A parade will probably happen at some point. We might win more than 1 trophy. Don't see the need to proclaim 'it's over' by some of our fanbase.

I like it.

[PHIL.]

When it's mathematically impossible.

I guess Klopp hasn't finished turning doubters into believers then.

[keyop]

How about a 400m race? 

With compulsory doping tests after each race?

City would have to return all their trophies.

[the_red_pill]

i want us to smash those horrid horrid twats this Sunday and would love to see that Golem faced little fuck Ole trying his best to defend the club. I bet anything if we draw, lose against them they will use it all season!

i know keeping Ole there is great for us since he's just digging more of a hole, but my god I would love to see us take down another manager with a sack swiftly after full time!

This is the fixture a United manager under the cosh should be dreading (any manager for that matter).
Smash 'em and he's most likely gone, BUT we march onto the title.

Ole must be quaking in his boots, the poor sod.

[PHIL.]

For me it's not about being a doubter.

I would argue that it is.

We're not talking about us having a 3 point lead here. For us to not win it, we'd need to show terrible form the likes that this squad hasn't shown. City would also need to win every single game from now until the end of the season.

If that's a worry to you then it's due to doubting this squad and manager.

I'd also argue it's a more enjoyable ride for those of us thinking it's over. Mainly because I don't go into each game thinking "this is a massive must-win game". You've seen people saying that about every game. This month alone, Sheffield and Spurs have been massive must-win tricky games that could derail the title charge. Now it's United. If we beat them, it will be Wolves. And so on.

[PHIL.]

This.

I feel sorry for you guys then. Fair enough but this must be a very stressful season with that mentality.

[PHIL.]

Thankfully, the people who matter the most when it comes to attitude and approach are the players and management, and they are fully aware that the right mindset and focus is crucial from here on in.

Sure, but the players' mentality has to be different than supporters anyway.

The belief the supporters have comes from the mentality the players have. We know they're not going to think it's over, which is why a lot of us feel we can afford to believe that from the stands. Nothing supporters say on a forum has any positive or negative effect on the outcomes of games.

[diglet]

Sunday the day after the FA Cup final it would be if we are in that. Not in FA Cup final it would be on Monday 18th May after the last game of the season. If were in CL final as well, there will only be the one on Sunday 31st May. We had 2 planned last year but there was a 3 week break and wasn't in the FA Cup final either so had plenty of time, this season not as much if going for the treble.

Bollocks I’m at a wedding in Spain 31 May, but would love to see the PL parade for obvious reasons. So weirdly am I hoping we don’t make the UCL final?!

[Silverbird]

I guess Klopp hasn't finished turning doubters into believers then.

So you mean Klopp himself is a doubter? Because Klopp himself has said the following about our lead at the top of the table: "It's really not interesting. The moment when we have enough points that nobody can catch us anymore, then we start talking about it. Until then I couldn't be less interested." He's not interested in talking about the title until it's mathematically impossible for other teams to catch us. Which is exactly what a number of other posters have said.

One can believe that the team will be able to win the title without assuming that it's a done deal. And one can certainly enjoy the journey even when one doesn't think it's a done deal. In fact, I daresay I enjoy the season far more when we are still playing for the title; if you are only enjoying the journey because you know where it leads to - a title - then what you are really interested in is just the glory of winning.

[Byrneand]

A question for the doubters:

At what point would you accept that it's over?

I keep seeing people saying "After January we will know", but we saw people saying "After December we will know", so do we then have the same people saying "After February we will know"?

There must surely be a point where you ignore the mathematical certainty argument and simply trust Klopp and this squad? They aren't in this position by accident.

Given City's February and March and there being only 15 games left, I've had the Man U game circled in my calendar for 2 or 3 months now. I'd felt if we had 10 point lead coming out of that we'd be in a really good position to start getting excited. I didn't see them besting us by 0.66ppg.

The way things have played out we're in an even better position (which I know effectively means we're at the above point already with regards ppg). I still kind of feel get 4 points against United and Wolves and its done and a case of working through the motions.

We have a similar lead as today come the end of February, then I think you can then start to get excited and start actively thinking what Klopp does around squad rotation and bedding in kids (getting way far head of myself). Say we're still in the Cup and CL, do we then start playing the 1st 11 in that and using the PL to bed in the likes of Nico Williams, see if Larucci is a long term solution for Robinson, Rest the front three. Or are we really on the hunt for records...

If you look at Salah that he's basically played:

17/18: 52 games (4,119 minutes) for Liverpool
18/19: 52 games (4,340 minutes) for Liverpool
19/20: 28 games (2,495 minutes) for Liverpool

And then you load that up with a world cup in 18, and African cup of nations in 19. With similar figures fro Mane and VVD (who has the Euros in 20) among others, and you've got to imagine that the sports scientists would be pushing to limit exposure if the league is won in preparation for 20/21.

[Silverbird]

Sure, but the players' mentality has to be different than supporters anyway.

The belief the supporters have comes from the mentality the players have. We know they're not going to think it's over, which is why a lot of us feel we can afford to believe that from the stands. Nothing supporters say on a forum has any positive or negative effect on the outcomes of games.

I call bullshit. Have you not heard players say reading/hearing criticism about their play affects them? Sure, there are some for whom what others say won't affect how they play, but most of them are not made of such stern stuff.

[PHIL.]

So you mean Klopp himself is a doubter? Because Klopp himself has said the following about our lead at the top of the table: "It's really not interesting. The moment when we have enough points that nobody can catch us anymore, then we start talking about it. Until then I couldn't be less interested." He's not interested in talking about the title until it's mathematically impossible for other teams to catch us. Which is exactly what a number of other posters have said.

One can believe that the team will be able to win the title without assuming that it's a done deal. And one can certainly enjoy the journey even when one doesn't think it's a done deal. In fact, I daresay I enjoy the season far more when we are still playing for the title; if you are only enjoying the journey because you know where it leads to - a title - then what you are really interested in is just the glory of winning.

Klopp has to have a different mindset because he directly influences the outcome. If he suddenly decides it's over then he might not prepare the team as well, make the right selections etc.

As a supporter, nothing we say or believe has that influence. My belief that it is over is due to the fact that I trust the players and Klopp to keep the same mentality that it isn't. It's a belief that they will get the job done.

And as for only being interested in the glory of winning, that's just a bit insulting. I wouldn't have spent so much on tickets over the years if that were the case.

[PHIL.]

I call bullshit. Have you not heard players say reading/hearing criticism about their play affects them? Sure, there are some for whom what others say won't affect how they play, but most of them are not made of such stern stuff.

Nah, I'm not having that.

If you genuinely think me saying I think we've won the league on RAWK would have any influence on Klopp or the players continuing to perform at a certain level, I can't help you.

[Silverbird]

Nah, I'm not having that.

If you genuinely think me saying I think we've won the league on RAWK would have any influence on Klopp or the players continuing to perform at a certain level, I can't help you.

Neither can I help you if you can't read. I didn't say your opinion alone mattered.

[Si senor]

This great team just keeps on going, another good win moving one step closer to the first league title in 30 years 😁

[PoetryInMotion]

I would argue that it is.

We're not talking about us having a 3 point lead here. For us to not win it, we'd need to show terrible form the likes that this squad hasn't shown. City would also need to win every single game from now until the end of the season.

If that's a worry to you then it's due to doubting this squad and manager.

I'd also argue it's a more enjoyable ride for those of us thinking it's over. Mainly because I don't go into each game thinking "this is a massive must-win game". You've seen people saying that about every game. This month alone, Sheffield and Spurs have been massive must-win tricky games that could derail the title charge. Now it's United. If we beat them, it will be Wolves. And so on.

You're absolutely confusing staying grounded and being a doubter. Klopp himself is not interested in claiming that it's over, one game at a time has served the team well. I don't see why fans need to jump up and down right now. It's one thing saying internet warriors don't influence the team and completely another thing to say that match going supporters don't have a say in the mood of the players on the pitch. Of course, they can influence it, that's how we've intimidated so many quality oppositions and won at Anfield, by acting as an extra boost to the players. It's quite easy to enjoy each game and do the supporting on matchdays and the trophy(ies) will come when they come.

[MJD-L4]

One thing I'm happy about is no Africa Cup of Nations this year so the likes of Mo, Sadio, Keita & Matip can have the summer off!

Shame there's a Copa America though. Would have been nice for Bobby, Fab & Alisson to have a couple of months rest as well.

Having Salah & Mané come back after a full summers rest could be a frightening prospect for the rest of the league.

Balls to just winning it this season, now I'm starting to think about retaining it!

[88_RED]

Would you say City are favourites from here?

And Liverpool are Shite..

[PHIL.]

You're absolutely confusing staying grounded and being a doubter. Klopp himself is not interested in claiming that it's over, one game at a time has served the team well. I don't see why fans need to jump up and down right now. It's one thing saying internet warriors don't influence the team and completely another thing to say that match going supporters don't have a say in the mood of the players on the pitch. Of course, they can influence it, that's how we've intimidated so many quality oppositions and won at Anfield, by acting as an extra boost to the players. It's quite easy to enjoy each game and do the supporting on matchdays and the trophy(ies) will come when they come.

I'm a match-going supporter.

The majority of people I've spoken to at the game believe we've won it. It hasn't really affected anything on match days. It's the same mixed bag of atmospheres we always have.

Anyway, I was just trying to understand the mentality of some people on here. You're all free to believe whatever you want and that's fine.

[keyop]

Agree with this totally.

What's served us so well over the last few seasons is not getting too far ahead ourselves. Manager, players and fans. Just focus on the next game with the aim to win, get 3 points or progress through to the next round of a cup competition. If we keep on doing that we'll be fine and can enjoy this great team for what remains of this season.

I'm not a big fan of people taking about parades or what game we can win the league after 21 games. I get the argument that it probably has limited effect but I don't want any complacency or cockiness to drip down from any part of this club. The flip side is that there are so many variables predicting any of this in mid-January is a futile process and one that probably doesn't matter that much at this point. Everyone associated with the club should concentrate on continuing to do what got us in this place for starters. League wins, cup wins and parades will take care of themselves. Enjoy this amazing team in the meantime.

In football (as in life), its perfectly normal to get excited about something that may or may not happen in the future - it's part of what makes us human.

After 30 years of waiting, I find it bizarre that some of our own fans can't entertain the possibility that others are thinking about it day and night, and speculating on all the outcomes.

If people want to book hotels for the parade, calculate every possible outcome, and dream about that feeling when we win number 19, then what's wrong with that? It won't have any effect whatsoever on whether we win the title or not.

No-one on here should be preaching to other fans on how to support our own team. It's perfectly possible for all fans to enjoy the ride whether they are obsessively analysing every aspect of the season, or just taking each game as it comes.

There doesn't need to be two opposing views on here, or endless commentary on either stance - they're both ok and not mutually exclusive. We're all in this together - remember?

[lionel_messias]

In football (as in life), its perfectly normal to get excited about something that may or may not happen in the future - it's part of what makes us human.

After 30 years of waiting, I find it bizarre that some of our own fans can't entertain the possibility that others are thinking about it day and night, and speculating on all the outcomes.

If people want to book hotels for the parade, calculate every possible outcome, and dream about that feeling when we win number 19, then what's wrong with that? It won't have any effect whatsoever on whether we win the title or not.

No-one on here should be preaching to other fans on how to support our own team. It's perfectly possible for all fans to enjoy the ride whether they are obsessively analysing every aspect of the season, or just taking each game as it comes.

There doesn't need to be two opposing views on here, or endless commentary on either stance - they're both ok and not mutually exclusive. We're all in this together - remember?

We are all in it together - for sure. If people want to speculate, book, plan, dream anything, that's absolutely fine.

What people are repeating is the mantra from Klopp, which will be felt by every single one of those players, and is probably good for our mental health. Liverpool have to fight for every win, respect every opponent, one at a time, that way we might be the best we have ever been.

To me personally, it doesn't matter when we do it, I just want us to do it. Get over that line. It feels good being on the right path. The journey of this team and club under Klopp and these owners is fantastic; we know that already, the League title is the validation the world can see.

[PoetryInMotion]

In football (as in life), its perfectly normal to get excited about something that may or may not happen in the future - it's part of what makes us human.

After 30 years of waiting, I find it bizarre that some of our own fans can't entertain the possibility that others are thinking about it day and night, and speculating on all the outcomes.

If people want to book hotels for the parade, calculate every possible outcome, and dream about that feeling when we win number 19, then what's wrong with that? It won't have any effect whatsoever on whether we win the title or not.

No-one on here should be preaching to other fans on how to support our own team. It's perfectly possible for all fans to enjoy the ride whether they are obsessively analysing every aspect of the season, or just taking each game as it comes.

There doesn't need to be two opposing views on here, or endless commentary on either stance - they're both ok and not mutually exclusive. We're all in this together - remember?

There's nothing wrong with it per say. It's just called 'counting the chickens'. I know it's been quite a while since we've won this trophy, but on a personal note, keeping calm helps. I'm not the 'jumping up and down before things happen' guy, because life has thrown things out of the left field in the most unexpected times. I was one of those who said Leicester were never in the title race and showed stats to show how much ahead of the league we are. I think City are really far away and it would take a perfect season from them and a collapse from us to take it away from us. It's far-fetched, but it's not impossible. Not yet. I celebrate when it becomes impossible. I enjoy our games. But I just don't go into every game thinking it's already done, that takes away the excitement of the next game and keeps us supporters on our toes as well. I heard Spurs fans say that our atmosphere in their game was dull (travelling fans), maybe complacency among the supporters? I don't know, but it's not what Klopp would want from us.

Yes, we can all enjoy this in different ways, but in one of the interviews, Klopp spoke on behalf of supporters that they don't think it's over and that he's least interested in it and I would subscribe to what Klopp wants from us.

[Mr_Shane]

We still need to win 12 more games.... so its not over.

Still its bizarre being Champions of Europe and the world, but not champions of England

[Dubred]

Admittedly, even for those of us that have waited so long for this elusive next title and are cautious as fuck, it is looking like we might finally see that long wait come to an end this season, barring an implosion.

Not quite there yet, but its looking likely.

The difference is though if we continue with this very mentality that has served us so well so far this season, and continue to take it game by game, rather than possibly getting to a point where we have mathematically won the league and can bask in its glory, we look likely to smash every record in the process, and I have to admit, having waited so long for this, I'd love us to smash the whole fucking thing to pieces and not just win, but do it in absolute style and re-write the history books.

[rafas red brigade]

I like it. I think the finish line should be 95 points though, which would make it look it even better for us.

Agreed. I actually took this idea as inspiration for some Excel calcs, using 96 points as our finish line (the minimum number of points that guarantees us the title). At the time of writing we have 61 points, which is just over 63.5% of the way to 96 points. In terms of a 400m race, we've run 254.16m.

City, however, have a target of 95 points, because they literally can't reach 96 so it would throw off the numbers. Their current tally of 47 means they're just under 49.5% of the way to their target. In terms of a 400m race, they've run 197.89m.

Or, to put it simply, they're not even halfway to their target and yet they're well over halfway through their matches, having played 57.9% of their season.

[G a r y]

In other words. It's done?

[lfc1]

I think just because people aren't saying it's over until it's mathematically impossible to be caught (which it isn't) don't think were not going to win the league. It doesn't have to be binary. You can think we're going to win the league while also being cautious about celebrating winning the league in January.