Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[SerbianScouser]

Gerrards gone to the top of European football and back, i don't think his technique is in question, he made 86 passes yesterday, with a passing completion of 94%. Its his work going back that worries me, and how easy Madrid found it to penetrate our midfield, his passing though was crisp and conservative, that wasn't the problem.

Can you give me his stats for the first half?

And just watching did you or did you not feel we struggled badly to get out of our half?

[GrkStav]

I thought the defence were quite well protected yesterday, against a brilliant side. Not every goal conceded is the fault of the midfield, although you'd think that reading on here. The first was a brilliant piece of play, extremly difficult to defend against but, not sure what the midfield did wrong there really. Neither for the second or third.

Also, when taking about protection and the game yesterday, I fail, again, to understand the talk of DMs and the like (not saying you specifically suggest we do need one). Modric and Kroos are hardly your typical DMs. What sets them apart, and what was evident yesterday, is their movement, first touch and passing. Compared to both Henderson and Allen (who I thought really struggled with the basics yesterday), everything goes quicker, the touch is more assured, the decions making is faster and the abilty to keep ball and calm things down much greater. There was really a noticable difference in quality there, I agree with that part of your post,. The midfielder closest in qualty yesterday was Gerrard, but he was too alone in the middle.

One positive was Coutinho's return to form, along with Sterling our best player by some distance. Hope we play him a bit deeper again, to gain some much needed guile, passing and dribbling ability to the midfield, and give him the chance to really make that role his own. Wouldn't mind a diamond with Lallana at the tip (he's more of a goal threat so prefer him higher up the pitch than Coutinho), and Sterling as a striker until Sturridge is back.

I agree with everything except the notion that we saw much of Gerrard's quality in yesterday's match.

[kcbworth]

I need to be reminded of something.

Did Joe Allen feature much during out run last season? Because he continues to be seen as key link this season.

If the answer is, not much, then what was our midfield during that period, and, as a starting point, why couldn't we use it verbatim?

[L666KOP]

I need to be reminded of something.

Did Joe Allen feature much during out run last season? Because he continues to be seen as key link this season.

If the answer is, not much, then what was our midfield during that period, and, as a starting point, why couldn't we use it verbatim?

Because without the movement of SAS up front it renders the role Stevie played pretty much redundant unfortunately.

Defences and midfields were too busy trying to keep tabs on SAS to worry about stopping Stevie.

[Chakan]

I need to be reminded of something.

Did Joe Allen feature much during out run last season? Because he continues to be seen as key link this season.

If the answer is, not much, then what was our midfield during that period, and, as a starting point, why couldn't we use it verbatim?

Last year (from Jan onwards) he was subbed 6 times, on the bench twice (never used) and started 10 times.

[kcbworth]

Last year (from Jan onwards) he was subbed 6 times, on the bench twice (never used) and started 10 times.

Fuck my memory is failing me atm... scary.

So our mainstays were Gerrard, Henderson, and I assume Sterling? Then we basically rotated Coutinho and Allen (or maybe sometimes Sterling)? With Lucas as the main backup?

[clinical]

Emre Can could turn into a great player. Really like the look of him for next season

[mariov77]

On a positive note, anyone remember Can's run yesterday? Very Toure like and what I'd want to see more of. Thought he was good once he came on.

I liked what I saw as well.

[Chakan]

Fuck my memory is failing me atm... scary.

So our mainstays were Gerrard, Henderson, and I assume Sterling? Then we basically rotated Coutinho and Allen (or maybe sometimes Sterling)? With Lucas as the main backup?

Gerrard started every game.
Sterling started 18 games and was subbed on 4 times
Coutinho started 18 games and was subbed on 4 times.
Henderson basically started every game and was subbed on once. Up until he got red carded.
Lucas only started 5 games was on the bench twice and used as a sub 7 times.

This is all after Jan though.

[Bolrick]

You're basically retiring Stevie though.

Brendan needs to do quite a bit of thinking, he may have to invent a system to get Gerrard in it.

Our problem as regards this is that Stevie hasn't the legs to play in an ideal Brendan side, but he's better than most in every department barring stamina.

It's a tough one for sure.

The games most would have Gerrard playing in are the ones he'd want to rest for, and play the ones we don't think he can.
 

Not really ...because he will still be on the bench when he is not picked. This way when he comes on....he can come on with all guns blazing (unlike now...where he starts and he has to pace himself to last the match).

[L666KOP]

Not really ...because he will still be on the bench when he is not picked. This way when he comes on....he can come on with all guns blazing (unlike now...where he starts and he has to pace himself to last the match).

So we tell him that for the big games he's benched ?

Really ?

He's too good for that.

[GrkStav]

It's becoming increasingly clear to me that last season, especially the long winning-streak period, cannot be used as any sort of blueprint for us this season.

The LS-DS plus RS partnership is gone (given LS is gone).

As many have said already, without LS+DS 'up top', opposition teams can alter their approach with impunity, affecting our midfield and defense very much as a result.

To have as 'devastating' a counter-attack as we did last season, we need to have more people 'left' higher up the pitch. To do that, we need a different combination of midfielders, with a different overall skill set and approach than we did last season. And, the long outball, diagonal and 'on the dime' is not going to work as effectively as it did when we had Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling as our most forward players.

[JTK]

It should depend on the opposition here.

Gerrard & Can/Lucas rotating depending upon what the game requires.

Gerrard playing 90 minutes of every game no matter what the opposition isn't good for him or for us, either as a DM or an AM.

Then in front of either one of those three pick whoever we want depending on the game out of Allen, Henderson, Coutinho, Lallana.

Wish we had more senior players so that Rodgers felt he could rest Gerrard more.

[Walshy nMe®]

Won't work because we have to play Gerrard.

End of conversation.

Therein lies the problem - he has to be droppable.  Otherwise we'll struggle until he the problem is sorted.  I said in another thread a month or so back, that Rodgers will live or die here based on how he handles Gerrard.

[L666KOP]

It's becoming increasingly clear to me that last season, especially the long winning-streak period, cannot be used as any sort of blueprint for us this season.

The LS-DS plus RS partnership is gone (given LS is gone).

As many have said already, without LS+DS 'up top', opposition teams can alter their approach with impunity, affecting our midfield and defense very much as a result.

To have as 'devastating' a counter-attack as we did last season, we need to have more people 'left' higher up the pitch. To do that, we need a different combination of midfielders, with a different overall skill set and approach than we did last season. And, the long outball, diagonal and 'on the dime' is not going to work as effectively as it did when we had Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling as our most forward players.

How about we press the rest button back to May, but instead of replacing Suarez with 2/3 players we just replace him with 1 ?

Let's have Gerrard back as the controller, Henderson doing the running, Sterling and Coutinho taking the piss, but just put Lallana on instead of Suarez.

Part of me thinks we may be overcomplicating matters.

We miss the movement of Suarez more than anything, I'd even put Lallana where Sterling played last year and shove Sterling up top to create the fear factor again.

[Chakan]

How about we press the rest button back to May, but instead of replacing Suarez with 2/3 players we just replace him with 1 ?

Let's have Gerrard back as the controller, Henderson doing the running, Sterling and Coutinho taking the piss, but just put Lallana on instead of Suarez.

Part of me thinks we may be overcomplicating matters.

We miss the movement of Suarez more than anything, I'd even put Lallana where Sterling played last year and shove Sterling up top to create the fear factor again.

The problem was there isn't a replacement for Suarez. We could never replicate what he brought to the team. What we need is a replacement for Sturridge.

[GrkStav]

Fuck my memory is failing me atm... scary.

So our mainstays were Gerrard, Henderson, and I assume Sterling? Then we basically rotated Coutinho and Allen (or maybe sometimes Sterling)? With Lucas as the main backup?

In 2014, our 'regular' central midfielders were Gerrard and Henderson. Whenever Allen was not available or had just returned from injury, we used Coutinho to partner Henderson in the '2' of a 1-2 or 1-2-1. Lucas was used as a substitute for Coutinho and Henderson, (almost) never in his best position.

Announcers are generally clueless wankers but it was indicative of how "weird" a choice it was that when (I believe it was against Aston Villa) Lucas was brought on in the second half (I don't remember for whom, I think it was Coutinho), the 'default' expectation was that he would slot in where Gerrard had been, and Gerrard would be 'pushed up'. It took quite a bit of time until the announcer and co-commentator cottoned on to the fact that there was not going to be a moving of Gerrard out of that DLPM role and spot. With no games other than the League games available, and with the magical run we were in, making winning the title a distinct possibility (given some peculiar results for CFC and MCFC, as well), BR was not going to mess with a winning formula.

When Henderson got the red card in the MCFC game, again BR chose to use Lucas in lieu of him and in his position, instead of moving Gerrard there, and Lucas in the 'controller' position. Everything was set up for that position to be DLPM not 'controller+DM'. We also had Sturridge injured and unavailable for a while.

I think we learned precious little about a 'normal', regular run of games, in a season with other competitions, and with our players not in devastating form from that time period.

[L666KOP]

The problem was there isn't a replacement for Suarez. We could never replicate what he brought to the team. What we need is a replacement for Sturridge.

I know there's no replacement as such, but surely the sensible option would be to have bought a suarez lite, or a sturridge.

We're having to reshuffle our front 6 positions because one player left, that can't be right.

We lost a plan a striker but bought 2 plan b.

Go back to the diamond of last year, put Lallana at the tip, or on the left, and bring Coutinho to the tip, and put Sterling up top with Sturridge, I can't believe it would be any worse.

[scumbagcollege]

I need to be reminded of something.

Did Joe Allen feature much during out run last season? Because he continues to be seen as key link this season.

If the answer is, not much, then what was our midfield during that period, and, as a starting point, why couldn't we use it verbatim?

I don't know if this helps, but I posted it in the QPR Round Table thread the other day.

I just done a quick check, so I might have got it wrong but the Allen Gerrard Henderson midfield combination won us 7 games last season.
Gerrard Henderson Coutinho also won us 7 games
Gerrard Henderson Lucas won 8 games
Lucas Allen Henderson won 2 games.
Allen Leiva won 1.
Gerrard Henderson won 1.
(This does not take into account substitutions)
 

[Chakan]

I know there's no replacement as such, but surely the sensible option would be to have bought a suarez lite, or a sturridge.

We're having to reshuffle our front 6 positions because one player left, that can't be right.

We lost a plan a striker but bought 2 plan b.

Go back to the diamond of last year, put Lallana at the tip, or on the left, and bring Coutinho to the tip, and put Sterling up top with Sturridge, I can't believe it would be any worse.

We tried to get Sanchez we failed, we tried Remy and failed.

I have no idea who else we looked at but they didn't come either. We ended on Mario who I thought was a decent option at the time. He's not covering himself in glory. What I am confused is why we keep resting Lallana? He's looked good when he's played and we keep sitting him on the bench.

What we need to do in Jan is find a 35m-40m striker who has movement and pace that can get behind teams and make runs. We miss that upfront.

[L666KOP]

In 2014, our 'regular' central midfielders were Gerrard and Henderson. Whenever Allen was not available or had just returned from injury, we used Coutinho to partner Henderson in the '2' of a 1-2 or 1-2-1. Lucas was used as a substitute for Coutinho and Henderson, (almost) never in his best position.

Announcers are generally clueless wankers but it was indicative of how "weird" a choice it was that when (I believe it was against Aston Villa) Lucas was brought on in the second half (I don't remember for whom, I think it was Coutinho), the 'default' expectation was that he would slot in where Gerrard had been, and Gerrard would be 'pushed up'. It took quite a bit of time until the announcer and co-commentator cottoned on to the fact that there was not going to be a moving of Gerrard out of that DLPM role and spot. With no games other than the League games available, and with the magical run we were in, making winning the title a distinct possibility (given some peculiar results for CFC and MCFC, as well), BR was not going to mess with a winning formula.

When Henderson got the red card in the MCFC game, again BR chose to use Lucas in lieu of him and in his position, instead of moving Gerrard there, and Lucas in the 'controller' position. Everything was set up for that position to be DLPM not 'controller+DM'. We also had Sturridge injured and unavailable for a while.

I think we learned precious little about a 'normal', regular run of games, in a season with other competitions, and with our players not in devastating form from that time period.

Again, spot on.

Replace only the players that can't play. Don't shuffle the pack.

[L666KOP]

                          Sterling            Sturridge

                                 
                                   Coutinho/Lallana

Coutinho/Lallana                                         Henderson


                                        Gerrard.

Can't be any worse than we've been surely ?

[scumbagcollege]

How about we press the rest button back to May, but instead of replacing Suarez with 2/3 players we just replace him with 1 ?

Let's have Gerrard back as the controller, Henderson doing the running, Sterling and Coutinho taking the piss, but just put Lallana on instead of Suarez.

Part of me thinks we may be overcomplicating matters.

We miss the movement of Suarez more than anything, I'd even put Lallana where Sterling played last year and shove Sterling up top to create the fear factor again.

We cannot afford to ship in another 50 goals though mate.

[L666KOP]

We cannot afford to ship in another 50 goals though mate.

Oh believe me I know, especially given that we are getting worse at the other end.

But we need to start scoring again.

[scumbagcollege]

Announcers are generally clueless wankers but it was indicative of how "weird" a choice it was that when (I believe it was against Aston Villa) Lucas was brought on in the second half (I don't remember for whom, I think it was Coutinho), the 'default' expectation was that he would slot in where Gerrard had been, and Gerrard would be 'pushed up'. It took quite a bit of time until the announcer and co-commentator cottoned on to the fact that there was not going to be a moving of Gerrard out of that DLPM role and spot. With no games other than the League games available, and with the magical run we were in, making winning the title a distinct possibility (given some peculiar results for CFC and MCFC, as well), BR was not going to mess with a winning formula.

Lucas did replace Gerrard in the DM position against Villa when he came on though mate, as he did when we were struggling in the FA Cup game against Oldham a few weeks earlier. Here is a contemporaneous report from The Guardian;

Rodgers admits to Lucas mistake but Villa are baffled by Suarez's fall
Liverpool will intensify efforts this week to sign Mohamed Salah, the 21-year-old
Egyptian winger whom Basel rate at pounds 12m. More ingenuity, more
excitement and more depth are always welcome, though they are not necessarily
the priorities for Brendan Rodgers on the evidence of another Anfield trial by
Aston Villa.
Like Lloyd Bridges's character in Airplane!, who picked the wrong week to give up
smoking, amphetamines and sniffing glue, Rodgers chose an inopportune time to
promote Liverpool's title claims, Steven Gerrard's development as a deep-lying
midfielder in the Andrea Pirlo class and then to rest Lucas Leiva. And the wrong
opponents. "Probably across the board we were not very good,"
the Liverpool manager conceded. "Myself included."
Villa's midfield diamond and front two prospered as an
imbalanced Liverpool toiled without the Brazilian midfielder's astute protection.
They resembled a cohesive, potent unit for the 21 second-half minutes Lucas was
on the pitch. His exit with a knee injury after an innocuous collision with Fabian
Delph may have serious repercussions for Liverpool's campaign - and perhaps
January's transfer business - should scans confirm the worst. "It's in God's hands,"
tweeted Lucas after leaving Anfield on crutches.

http://www.lfchistory.net/Images/newspapers/riley/20140118vVilla.pdf

[wemmick]

                          Sterling            Sturridge

                                 
                                   Coutinho/Lallana

Coutinho/Lallana                                         Henderson


                                        Gerrard.

Can't be any worse than we've been surely ?

I don't know, mate. There is very little power in that midfield. Gerrard, Coutinho and Lallana aren't physically dominant players. The general level of skill on the ball is really good, but they'll be pushed around too easily for my liking. I'm starting to think one of the one of the problems with our inability to score is how slight we are in midfield. Other sides are just running over us at the moment.

One thing I noticed about that Madrid side last night was the general physique in their team. Even Modric looked stronger than I remember him being for Tottenham.   

[Bolrick]

How about we press the rest button back to May, but instead of replacing Suarez with 2/3 players we just replace him with 1 ?

Let's have Gerrard back as the controller, Henderson doing the running, Sterling and Coutinho taking the piss, but just put Lallana on instead of Suarez.

Part of me thinks we may be overcomplicating matters.

We miss the movement of Suarez more than anything, I'd even put Lallana where Sterling played last year and shove Sterling up top to create the fear factor again.

Actually I have somewhat similar thoughts to you. I will play lallana exactly where suarez played. He is a poor man's suarez. He has good dribbling skills, good close control, pretty decent finishing with both feet.

Rodgers has to think out of the box regarding the other players he has. He spends too much time trying to build the team around gerrard.

[Jookie]

Because without the movement of SAS up front it renders the role Stevie played pretty much redundant unfortunately.

Defences and midfields were too busy trying to keep tabs on SAS to worry about stopping Stevie.

Agree with this.

Because of the threat of SAS it basically allowed us to get away with Coutinho as the part of the midfield 3 on occasions. Having Suarez and Sturridge together up front was akin to having 12 players on the pitch. The opposition would basically put extra men on them to try and stop them.

Without SAS teams can now they can just condense the play and press our midfield higher up the pitch.

[L666KOP]

I don't know, mate. There is very little power in that midfield. Gerrard, Coutinho and Lallana aren't physically dominant players. The general level of skill on the ball is really good, but they'll be pushed around too easily for my liking. I'm starting to think one of the one of the problems with our inability to score is how slight we are in midfield. Other sides are just running over us at the moment.

One thing I noticed about that Madrid side last night was the general physique in their team. Even Modric looked stronger than I remember him being for Tottenham.

We didn't have power last year.

We had fast attacking football that frightened teams to death.

Said to my lad last night at HT, "Now you know what it felt like to be a supporter of teams we played last season".

Replace Suarez with one player, keep the rest as it was, identify who we think has the nearest attribute, and stick them where he played.

It can't be any worse.

[steveeastend]

Our best midfield would be something like..

                      Lucas           Can

Sterling                Coutinho             Markovic


Of course it's a provocating statement but when looking at the post game statements of Rodgers you really do wonder about the untouchable status of this "group" of midfielders who couldn't pass the ball 2 yards on the ground under this sort of pressure besides leaving gaps to pass into and being simply too slow in reading a game of football for getting into tackles the right time. But yeah, it's the defence only... 

[steveeastend]

Defences and midfields were too busy trying to keep tabs on SAS to worry about stopping Stevie.

No offfense to anyone but nobody has to worry about stopping Stevie nowadays on that level which was also very visible during the last world cup. His body denies him top level football and that's a polite statement.

[leivapool]

Our best midfield would be something like..

                      Lucas           Can

Sterling                Coutinho             Markovic


Of course it's a provocating statement but when looking at the post game statements of Rodgers you really do wonder about the untouchable status of this "group" of midfielders who couldn't pass the ball 2 yards on the ground under this sort of pressure besides leaving gaps to pass into and being simply too slow in reading a game of football for getting into tackles the right time. But yeah, it's the defence only... 

Pigs would fly before we saw that midfield,  although I quite like it!!

More worrying for me is this untouchable group  you refer to.  My over riding opinion of the game last night was just how tired we looked after about 10 minutes.  Rodgers put much faith in this 'untouchable core'  despite their  poor performances,  yet these are the players hwo looked most tired.  Sterling,  Henderson,  Gerrard,  Johnson (when fit), Skrtel,  Lovren,  these guys get picked every game no matter how poorly they play.  What message does that send out to the players who aren't playing?

Yesterday we saw 3 horrible performances from Gerrard,  Allen & Hendo.  These 3,  Rodgers favourite CM's for us,  they are average players.  Not one of them has any star quality,  yes,  not even Gerrard has it any more.  Allen looked like a boy playing against men,  despite his efforts,  and Hendo's confidence and game changing abilities are non existant against any sort of quality opposition.  Compare that to Modric and Kroos,  the gulf in class is embarrassing.  Our midfield is a mess,  it really is,  and yet Rodgers persists in playing the same players in the same formation.  Baffling

[steveeastend]

Pigs would fly before we saw that midfield,  although I quite like it!!

More worrying for me is this untouchable group  you refer to.  My over riding opinion of the game last night was just how tired we looked after about 10 minutes.  Rodgers put much faith in this 'untouchable core'  despite their  poor performances,  yet these are the players hwo looked most tired.  Sterling,  Henderson,  Gerrard,  Johnson (when fit), Skrtel,  Lovren,  these guys get picked every game no matter how poorly they play.  What message does that send out to the players who aren't playing?

Yesterday we saw 3 horrible performances from Gerrard,  Allen & Hendo.  These 3,  Rodgers favourite CM's for us,  they are average players.  Not one of them has any star quality,  yes,  not even Gerrard has it any more.  Allen looked like a boy playing against men,  despite his efforts,  and Hendo's confidence and game changing abilities are non existant against any sort of quality opposition.  Compare that to Modric and Kroos,  the gulf in class is embarrassing.  Our midfield is a mess,  it really is,  and yet Rodgers persists in playing the same players in the same formation.  Baffling

I really don't get Rodgers here, why no competition and why no rotation when bulking up the squad in summer? What was it all for when the same players are played every game...

Sakho, Lucas, Markovic... all internationals who could offer quality pressure for a spot in the team and giving the possibilty to rotate properly...

[wemmick]

We didn't have power last year.

We had fast attacking football that frightened teams to death.

Said to my lad last night at HT, "Now you know what it felt like to be a supporter of teams we played last season".

Replace Suarez with one player, keep the rest as it was, identify who we think has the nearest attribute, and stick them where he played.

It can't be any worse.

That's a good point. I agree with you that it can't be worse, but I don't know how much more effective it would be. Suarez was by far the most physically dominant player on the pitch in almost every match he played last year. We didn't need really more power than what Henderson provided in midfield because of Suarez, but I don't think Sterling, Sturridge, Coutinho, Lallana, Gerrard make up for his dominance. I think they make up for Suarez's pace and technical ability, but not his power. We don't have any one in the forward line right now, bar Balotelli and sometimes Sterling, who can relentlessly drive through defenders for 90 minutes like he did. (And Balotelli doesn't seem to utilize that part of his game nearly as much as I'd like. Sterling will get there as his body matures in the next few years.) That's why I think we need more power in midfield. We just can't drive through defenses right now, and they are getting a lot of joy because of it. Thoughts?

[Samie]

Pigs would fly before we saw that midfield,  although I quite like it!!

More worrying for me is this untouchable group  you refer to.  My over riding opinion of the game last night was just how tired we looked after about 10 minutes.  Rodgers put much faith in this 'untouchable core'  despite their  poor performances,  yet these are the players hwo looked most tired.  Sterling,  Henderson,  Gerrard,  Johnson (when fit), Skrtel,  Lovren,  these guys get picked every game no matter how poorly they play.  What message does that send out to the players who aren't playing?

Yesterday we saw 3 horrible performances from Gerrard,  Allen & Hendo.  These 3,  Rodgers favourite CM's for us,  they are average players.  Not one of them has any star quality,  yes,  not even Gerrard has it any more.  Allen looked like a boy playing against men,  despite his efforts,  and Hendo's confidence and game changing abilities are non existant against any sort of quality opposition.  Compare that to Modric and Kroos,  the gulf in class is embarrassing.  Our midfield is a mess,  it really is,  and yet Rodgers persists in playing the same players in the same formation.  Baffling

Yet you think Lucas is?

 He's not been since he came back from his injury.

[wemmick]

I really don't get Rodgers here, why no competition and why no rotation when bulking up the squad in summer? What was it all for when the same players are played every game...

Sakho, Lucas, Markovic... all internationals who could offer quality pressure for a spot in the team and giving the possibilty to rotate properly...

Rodgers has become very conservative under all the pressure this season. I would like to see a little more cavalier attitude from him with the team's personnel. Nearly won him the league last season.

[artanis]

So we tell him that for the big games he's benched ?

Really ?

He's too good for that.

May be time to transition Gerrard into an impact sub role.
He's got good 30 minutes in him where his legs would not be an issue. Also against tired opposition.

[DPB RED]

Can and Markovic need more game time and a chance to show us what they are capable of.
They will never adapt to the English game without consistent game time.
What about giving Suso a chance as well?
Does Gerrard need to be playing every match, this would give Rodgers a chance to play some of the new signings more often especially Can.
I believe Coutinho should play off Ballotelli or even sterling in a more advanced role and have Allen or Lallana just behind. 

[rscanderlech]

Our best midfield would be something like..

                      Lucas           Can

Sterling                Coutinho             Markovic


Of course it's a provocating statement but when looking at the post game statements of Rodgers you really do wonder about the untouchable status of this "group" of midfielders who couldn't pass the ball 2 yards on the ground under this sort of pressure besides leaving gaps to pass into and being simply too slow in reading a game of football for getting into tackles the right time. But yeah, it's the defence only... 

I don't know about that particular midfield, but you are right that our midfield has been overrated for a while now. Even last season, it wasn't a good midfield that was winning us games! It was Suarez-Sturridge-Sterling. We hardly used to register impressive control of midfield and possession against top sides, except insofar as the danger of the pace of our counter-attacks kept teams from committing too many players forward - which is not down to the midfield.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

I thought the defence were quite well protected yesterday, against a brilliant side. Not every goal conceded is the fault of the midfield, although you'd think that reading on here. The first was a brilliant piece of play, extremly difficult to defend against but, not sure what the midfield did wrong there really. Neither for the second or third.

Also, when taking about protection and the game yesterday, I fail, again, to understand the talk of DMs and the like (not saying you specifically suggest we do need one). Modric and Kroos are hardly your typical DMs. What sets them apart, and what was evident yesterday, is their movement, first touch and passing. Compared to both Henderson and Allen (who I thought really struggled with the basics yesterday), everything goes quicker, the touch is more assured, the decions making is faster and the abilty to keep ball and calm things down much greater. There was really a noticable difference in quality there, I agree with that part of your post,. The midfielder closest in qualty yesterday was Gerrard, but he was too alone in the middle.

One positive was Coutinho's return to form, along with Sterling our best player by some distance. Hope we play him a bit deeper again, to gain some much needed guile, passing and dribbling ability to the midfield, and give him the chance to really make that role his own. Wouldn't mind a diamond with Lallana at the tip (he's more of a goal threat so prefer him higher up the pitch than Coutinho), and Sterling as a striker until Sturridge is back.

modric and kroos as a duo though are unballanced.
they will have games where they will be superb but also you will get the unbeliveable defeats to the likes of real sociedad who have lost at home to quite a few bottom half la liga sides....even when alonso was there they lost to valencia at home when they were supposed to be in for the title!!!!

they should be playing kjedira but after his acl they are probably easing him in