Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??

[Alan_X]

I love how you play massive sceptic and I'm essaying the role of believer in this game.

Heard Mick West (Mick fucking West is a massive debunker.


In reality, I am in the middle with Professor Avi Loeb. He insists everything must be about data. Let's collect more of it and use a framework of known science to try and understand better what is going on. The Galileo project is looking at the skies with a lot of sensors, initially from Harvard and moving to "other locations" later this year.

That's the way to do it, I do not care for hobbyists like Mick West who knows square root of Jack Shit, and has a fixed position of "this is nothing to see at all" and he will not be moving from that position no matter what.

The analysis of "Gimbal" is not just the work of 'hobbyist' Mick West (no need for the ad hominem), it's based on solid data and reproducible research. He's part of a wider network of skeptics who undertake rigorous open-source analysis. He may be a 'hobbyist' in your mind but he's doing the same kind of work, and with the same methodology as Bellingcat.

You want more data - there is a huge amount of data in the debunking of Gimbal, Go Fast, the Chilean Navy videos etc.

I share the view of Carl Sagan - that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. An alien civilisation travelling across vast distances to flit about in the atmosphere is an extraordinary claim. In order to accept that claim I think it's reasonable to ensure all of the more likely explanations have been examined. That's the scientific method. 

[lionel_messias]

Correct but these hobbyists will have a harder job explaining what happened to the USS Nimitz.

It is a shame, as much of the data there will be classified.

The threshold for West, Bellingcat etc is far far easier than those would aim to investigate an extraordinary thesis.

Twas ever thus and will be.

@LueElizondo is one to follow.

He's seen far more than any of us, knows far more too.

[[new username under construction]]

Correct but these hobbyists will have a harder job explaining what happened to the USS Nimitz.

It is a shame, as much of the data there will be classified.

The threshold for West, Bellingcat etc is far far easier than those would aim to investigate an extraordinary thesis.

Twas ever thus and will be.

@LueElizondo is one to follow.

He's seen far more than any of us, knows far more too.

the guy who claims to be psychic and is writing a book that will "reveal all"?

[lobsterboy]

If a race had sussed fusion power then their energy provision wouldn't be much of a problem. We're close to it ourselves and we've only been at this sciency thing for a few hundred years. If you had races that were millions of years old and scattered around the cosmos, then it's likely we couldn't even comprehend their technology and they'd probably know a bit about reality

There are also less exotic means of getting to very high velocity. Take a big rock - or preferrably a few and fire rockets and head to somewhere big like Jupiter or the sun. Sling shot around it and point it towards the Earth. No rockets now required. Sling shot around the Earth and point it to whatever destination you want. This rock - or preferrably a few of them need manouvering thrusters from time to time, but don't slow down. Then you get a rocket (Preferrably from the moon) and use the materials there for fuel. Fly up to the rock and catch it up and land on it. Refuel it's thrusters and repeat and repeat. They are actually working on this idea now - basically a very, very fast and very, very cheap way of getting around the solar system and perhaps even further.

This is the idea here..


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/pUjnRW-igtk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/pUjnRW-igtk</a>

Travelling around our solar system using fusion would still take a long time, Voyager 1 for example has reached a speed of 61,500 km/h and has taken 45 years to reach the edge of the heliosphere.
So travel around our solar system is potentially possible, using slingshot methods or solar sails for example.

The Milkyway itself though is 125,000 light years across. So roughly 9.5 trillion KM x 125,000 across. 
Travelling at 99.9% the speed of light means it would take over 250,000 years to make a return trip.
You also have relativity and the effects of time dilation at those speeds to consider.
Further afield, for visitors to come from Andromeda then they have a 2,480,000 light-year journey to undertake before they even consider traversing the milky way.

Then you get into the realms of pure sci-fi with warp travel, wormholes and zero point energy.
All wildly theoretical at present.
If aliens were opening wormholes and bending space time in our local vicinity I think there might be a bit more evidence of it than blurry photos, video and Joe Rogan podcasts.
I'm not saying its 100% impossible, simply that its very unlikely when all factors are considered.

For humans, if we can avoid self destruction, then the future is possibly some sort of Dyson sphere structure to harness the sun's energy for as long as possible, with tiny world-lets orbiting its white dwarf remnants.
Possibly even a colony to the very nearest stars.

In the end though, whatever we do entropy appears to win.

[lionel_messias]

the guy who claims to be psychic and is writing a book that will "reveal all"?

Not heard the first bit, he's the former director of AATIP.

[[new username under construction]]

Not heard the first bit, he's the former director of AATIP.

Yeah i think he claims/claimed to have saved a buddy during a war using psychic ability, lots of decent people in the field who are legit, not sure Elizondo is one of them though

[lionel_messias]

Yeah i think he claims/claimed to have saved a buddy during a war using psychic ability, lots of decent people in the field who are legit, not sure Elizondo is one of them though

You can throw shade at him all you like but as a research affliate to Avi Loeb's Galileo program, I'll take that as a credential:

Luis Elizondo

Luis Elizondo is a former counterintelligence special agent and the former director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP). He served in the U.S. Army in intelligence for twenty years, followed by 9 years of defense intelligence work in the Pentagon. In 2017, Elizondo resigned from his position in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, citing the need for more public exposure and governmental cooperation in the study of UAP. In the private sector, Elizondo was responsible for the distribution of the declassified Pentagon videos. He has served as advisor and public speaker across numerous programs.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Travelling around our solar system using fusion would still take a long time, Voyager 1 for example has reached a speed of 61,500 km/h and has taken 45 years to reach the edge of the heliosphere.
So travel around our solar system is potentially possible, using slingshot methods or solar sails for example.

The Milkyway itself though is 125,000 light years across. So roughly 9.5 trillion KM x 125,000 across. 
Travelling at 99.9% the speed of light means it would take over 250,000 years to make a return trip.
You also have relativity and the effects of time dilation at those speeds to consider.
Further afield, for visitors to come from Andromeda then they have a 2,480,000 light-year journey to undertake before they even consider traversing the milky way.

Then you get into the realms of pure sci-fi with warp travel, wormholes and zero point energy.
All wildly theoretical at present.
If aliens were opening wormholes and bending space time in our local vicinity I think there might be a bit more evidence of it than blurry photos, video and Joe Rogan podcasts.
I'm not saying its 100% impossible, simply that its very unlikely when all factors are considered.

For humans, if we can avoid self destruction, then the future is possibly some sort of Dyson sphere structure to harness the sun's energy for as long as possible, with tiny world-lets orbiting its white dwarf remnants.
Possibly even a colony to the very nearest stars.

In the end though, whatever we do entropy appears to win.

Well so far we have just discussed what might be possible for a very, very species like us..

.. it's an interesting subject. Three great (Science fiction) books on the ideas you mention there are the Manifold Trilogy by Stephen Baxter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_Trilogy

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_(Baxter_novel)
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_(Baxter_novel)
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_(Baxter_novel)

[lobsterboy]

Well so far we have just discussed what might be possible for a very, very species like us..

.. it's an interesting subject. Three great (Science fiction) books on the ideas you mention there are the Manifold Trilogy by Stephen Baxter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_Trilogy

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_(Baxter_novel)
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_(Baxter_novel)
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_(Baxter_novel)

Most life out there would have chemistry/physics tied into the underpinning rules of our shared reality, no matter how varied form that life takes.
The same astrophysics, relativity and such would all apply regardless so i would expect that they would be presented with the same problems we face with interstellar travel.

Outside our reality all bets are off. Maybe there are extra dimensional beings existing outside our reality who we cannot observe!

Have read quite a few of Stephen Baxter's books, mostly the Xelee sequence and The Medusa Chronicles, with Alastair Reynolds.
Will certainly take a look.

Alastair Reynolds also deals with the Fermi paradox in his Revelation space series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revelation_Space_series

Currently reading Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky.
Not a book for arachnophobes...

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Most life out there would have chemistry/physics tied into the underpinning rules of our shared reality, no matter how varied form that life takes.
The same astrophysics, relativity and such would all apply regardless so i would expect that they would be presented with the same problems we face with interstellar travel.

Outside our reality all bets are off. Maybe there are extra dimensional beings existing outside our reality who we cannot observe!

Have read quite a few of Stephen Baxter's books, mostly the Xelee sequence and The Medusa Chronicles, with Alastair Reynolds.
Will certainly take a look.

Alastair Reynolds also deals with the Fermi paradox in his Revelation space series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revelation_Space_series

Currently reading Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky.
Not a book for arachnophobes...

Might have a crack at both of those, cheers


Edit: Bought the Alastair Reynolds triology. Some nice holibobs reading. Thanks mate.

[lobsterboy]

You can throw shade at him all you like but as a research affliate to Avi Loeb's Galileo program, I'll take that as a credential:

Luis Elizondo

Luis Elizondo is a former counterintelligence special agent and the former director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP). He served in the U.S. Army in intelligence for twenty years, followed by 9 years of defense intelligence work in the Pentagon. In 2017, Elizondo resigned from his position in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, citing the need for more public exposure and governmental cooperation in the study of UAP. In the private sector, Elizondo was responsible for the distribution of the declassified Pentagon videos. He has served as advisor and public speaker across numerous programs.

Once parapsychology and remote viewing get mentioned all credibility is lost.

The guy could be the greatest counterintelligence officer ever.
Doesn't preclude him from being a grifter.
Maybe even still working for his former employers, now tasked with spreading misinformation?

We have a UK version, Nick Pope. Read quite a few of his books and not convinced.

[lionel_messias]

Once parapsychology and remote viewing get mentioned all credibility is lost.

The guy could be the greatest counterintelligence officer ever.
Doesn't preclude him from being a grifter.
Maybe even still working for his former employers, now tasked with spreading misinformation?

We have a UK version, Nick Pope. Read quite a few of his books and not convinced.

All your assertions are baseless. So we'd have to just go back to the evidence. With Lue, all we know (99%) is that he has seen classified information.
At some point either some of that, or something non-classified comes out, or it doesn't.

Nick Pope? Yeah I mean he came onto the scene like a sort of John Major-ish version of Fox Mulder. I guess you'd say what is the point of him unless he can release some new information? You'd put that to Elizondo I gues as well.

So now we know, lots of governments have studied UFOs then UAP over the years. Nothing has so far emerged of concrete interest. Rendlesham Forrest is the big one over here.

[lobsterboy]

Remote viewing and parapsychology are certainly baseless...

As for Rendlesham, sorry that was most likely the lighthouse.

I know the Forest quite well as I've mountain biked and wild camped there regularly.
If you ever visit, call off at The Unruly Pig in Woodbridge, food is great.

Nick Pope was former MOD and then started selling sensational stories about UFO's.
He's either a grifter or was paid to cultivate this stuff  for his former employers.
I suspect that this Elizondo chap is as well.

have you seen the documentary "mirage men"
Interesting watch, describes how the manipulation has been performed on the public.

[lobsterboy]

 

Might have a crack at both of those, cheers


Edit: Bought the Alastair Reynolds triology. Some nice holibobs reading. Thanks mate.

[Alan_X]

Correct but these hobbyists will have a harder job explaining what happened to the USS Nimitz.

It is a shame, as much of the data there will be classified.

The threshold for West, Bellingcat etc is far far easier than those would aim to investigate an extraordinary thesis.

Twas ever thus and will be.

@LueElizondo is one to follow.

He's seen far more than any of us, knows far more too.

By the Nimitz do you mean the 'tic-tac' video? The one where the vague blur (probably a plane in the distance) veers off to the left at the end and "suddenly accelerates at impossible G-forces"? Or rather, it veers off and the zoom changes from 1.0 to 2.0 making it look like it accelerates? Isn't that one where Fravor makes a load of claims that aren't actually evident in the video?

Another nail in the Fighter pilots always know what they're looking at coffin is one where a retired F18 pilot reported three lights flying in formation. He filmed them and a pair of flashing violet lights joined them. Long story short - the lights flying in formation had names: Pherkad, Kochab and Polaris.



The flashing violet lights were the reflection of his iPhone infra-red auto-focus.

[Dr. Beaker]

I find the possibility of microbial life within our solar system far more interesting than this UFO bollocks - and I've actually seen UFO's!

[Jesse Pinkman]

There is more than meets the eye here. Jacques Vallée's work suggests a phenomenon at work that goes back hundreds of years.

You can dismiss it using the rigid lens of Western rationalism (I suppose the same kind of lens was used in the selective interpretations on Suarez and Cavani's usage of ''negrito'' , but I digress.) or perhaps maybe open your mind a bit to the possibilities and countless stories and eyewitnesses around the world.


James Fox had a recent documentary on Brazil's Varginha incident which was quite telling. Where there is smoke there is fire.

Chris Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence is another one to follow.

Many strange incidents to uncover here. See all this data coming in from the experiments ongoing at Skinwalker Ranch (ignore the History channel theatrics and you'll see there seems to be some strange anomalies there).

Exciting times. Let's see what trickles down.

[liverbloke]

Remote viewing and parapsychology are certainly baseless...

As for Rendlesham, sorry that was most likely the lighthouse.

I know the Forest quite well as I've mountain biked and wild camped there regularly.
If you ever visit, call off at The Unruly Pig in Woodbridge, food is great.

Nick Pope was former MOD and then started selling sensational stories about UFO's.
He's either a grifter or was paid to cultivate this stuff  for his former employers.
I suspect that this Elizondo chap is as well.

have you seen the documentary "mirage men"
Interesting watch, describes how the manipulation has been performed on the public.

that - and soldiers on crack

growing up i used to think yeh there's a cover up and the alions are out there

but as an adult i just do this face now 

people seem to think that UFO means space craft 

[lionel_messias]

Things are happening in Washington, DC.[/size]Believe it or not, we should have some interesting news soon. Whistleblowers are briefing Congress.

[Jiminy Cricket]

You can dismiss it using the rigid lens of Western rationalism

Damn you, 'rigid lens of Western Rationalism'!

(I suppose the same kind of lens was used in the selective interpretations on Suarez and Cavani's usage of ''negrito'' , but I digress.)

You can 'suppose' what you wish. But that's and extreme example of a non-sequitur and whataboutism.

[Alan_X]

The Varghina incident is a classic case. Three women saw what was almost certainly a malnourished vagrant called “Mudhino” and claimed it was actually a strange creature with glowing red eyes. They said it was the “devil”. As usual with UFO stories it gets embellished and added to.

[Alan_X]

There is more than meets the eye here. Jacques Vallée's work suggests a phenomenon at work that goes back hundreds of years.

You can dismiss it using the rigid lens of Western rationalism (I suppose the same kind of lens was used in the selective interpretations on Suarez and Cavani's usage of ''negrito'' , but I digress.) or perhaps maybe open your mind a bit to the possibilities and countless stories and eyewitnesses around the world.


James Fox had a recent documentary on Brazil's Varginha incident which was quite telling. Where there is smoke there is fire.

Chris Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence is another one to follow.

Many strange incidents to uncover here. See all this data coming in from the experiments ongoing at Skinwalker Ranch (ignore the History channel theatrics and you'll see there seems to be some strange anomalies there).

Exciting times. Let's see what trickles down.

“Where there is smoke there is fire…” …except that’s not true.

As for Skinwalker Ranch. I tried watching it but had to give up because every minute watching it made me stupider. It is the most ridiculous pathetic pile of shite. “Hey, there’s a big hole in the ground and if we fill it up the water disappears!…” they fill it up and water disappears… the first thing that’s mind-numbingly dumb was that the hole was covered in branches and twigs. So there’s this hole in the ground where water disappears (duh) so the first thing you do is move the twigs and look at the bottom… not these stupid fuckers. It’s cringeworthy.

[Alan_X]

 Going back to the Nimitz story. I’d recommend watching Mick West’s interviews with some of the other pilots and witnesses.

[lionel_messias]

Going back to the Nimitz story. I’d recommend watching Mick West’s interviews with some of the other pilots and witnesses.

Eyes on Washington between now and June.

Unsure if any of the Nimitz witnesses have come forward.
But others have.

[Only Me]

The other thing that alien watchers often fail to consider is the minuscule chance of a relevant window of time being available for life forms to discover each other.

The universe is very very old, as well as very very large. In its 14 billion or so years of existence, I’d quite happily believe that a multitude of planets have evolved life. I’m also not averse to believing that some of them would eventually be capable of long distance space travel.

But all Species come and go, for a variety of reasons, and nothing lasts forever.

So, the chances of a planet evolving life capable of long distance space travel, then finding a planet in the universe which also has sentient life on it at that same instant of time are mind bogglingly small.

Earth could have been visited by aliens billions of years ago and all they’d have found was a lifeless rock. The human race is only about 200k years old, and the way we’re going we won’t last another 200k years. That’s a tiny percentage of the age of the universe.

So the chances of aliens having evolved enough to to travel the huge distances involved, then finding us in existence at that same period of time are close to zero. Then of course you have to also accept that even after finding this millionth of a needle in ten billion haystacks, the miserable c*nts just fly about a bit and don’t even come to say hello.

So all these sightings are, to my mind, the ramblings of fucking loons (for fucking loons, you can usually substitute the word “Americans”).

[[new username under construction]]

No distance involved if its a space based life form, no "home planet" millions of miles away, live on a ship, sorted

[lobsterboy]

The other thing that alien watchers often fail to consider is the minuscule chance of a relevant window of time being available for life forms to discover each other.

The universe is very very old, as well as very very large. In its 14 billion or so years of existence, I’d quite happily believe that a multitude of planets have evolved life. I’m also not averse to believing that some of them would eventually be capable of long distance space travel.

But all Species come and go, for a variety of reasons, and nothing lasts forever.

So, the chances of a planet evolving life capable of long distance space travel, then finding a planet in the universe which also has sentient life on it at that same instant of time are mind bogglingly small.

Earth could have been visited by aliens billions of years ago and all they’d have found was a lifeless rock. The human race is only about 200k years old, and the way we’re going we won’t last another 200k years. That’s a tiny percentage of the age of the universe.

So the chances of aliens having evolved enough to to travel the huge distances involved, then finding us in existence at that same period of time are close to zero. Then of course you have to also accept that even after finding this millionth of a needle in ten billion haystacks, the miserable c*nts just fly about a bit and don’t even come to say hello.

So all these sightings are, to my mind, the ramblings of fucking loons (for fucking loons, you can usually substitute the word “Americans”).

It was visited by aliens about 65 million years ago. Adam Driver did a documentary about it.

[liverbloke]

posted this originally in the technology and science forum but haven't received a reply as yet so thought i'd try my luck in here

2 things

1 i don't believe in alions

2 i know you don't spell it 'alions' that's just me being silly

anyhoo...

i don’t believe in alions nor spaceships – so i thought i’d see if any of you techno/space geeks could tell me what you think this is

i both took video and photos (compilation below) in west derby liverpool 2017

it was higher than the clouds (that's why the camera keeps on blurring as it cannot focus as the object/s go behind the clouds) and it just looks like a bunch of white balloons tumbling

now, judging by the height, those balloons would be pretty large so I don’t think they can be just a bunch of party balloons that have gotten ‘free’ – and who would have a bunch of large white party balloons anyway?

but i don’t know - maybe they are just large party balloons?

or could it be something to do with satellites? or some sort of re-entry balloons?

whaddaya think?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Lybbb7ce43I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Lybbb7ce43I</a>

[Alan_X]

Wedding balloons.



I don't think you can rely on the auto-focus to say they're above the clouds. The camera could be focusing on the largest object not necessarily the nearest.

[rob1966]

posted this originally in the technology and science forum but haven't received a reply as yet so thought i'd try my luck in here

2 things

1 i don't believe in alions

2 i know you don't spell it 'alions' that's just me being silly

anyhoo...

i don’t believe in alions nor spaceships – so i thought i’d see if any of you techno/space geeks could tell me what you think this is

i both took video and photos (compilation below) in west derby liverpool 2017

it was higher than the clouds (that's why the camera keeps on blurring as it cannot focus as the object/s go behind the clouds) and it just looks like a bunch of white balloons tumbling

now, judging by the height, those balloons would be pretty large so I don’t think they can be just a bunch of party balloons that have gotten ‘free’ – and who would have a bunch of large white party balloons anyway?

but i don’t know - maybe they are just large party balloons?

or could it be something to do with satellites? or some sort of re-entry balloons?

whaddaya think?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Lybbb7ce43I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Lybbb7ce43I</a>

Party balloons, you can see the shape.

Fucking stupid releasing them, they will float to a height of 2 miles. They won't take down an airliner, but they have been thought to have caused a light aircraft to crash in California in 1993

[liverbloke]

aw lads - i thought they might be a type of balloon but maybe something maybe a bit more exciting than blimmin wedding/party balloons

...like a secret chinese satellite crashing to the earth and deploying them for a splash down - woo hoo yeh - that'd be great 



(might just use that as it makes a better anecdote when down the pub)

[pazcom]

Many strange incidents to uncover here. See all this data coming in from the experiments ongoing at Skinwalker Ranch (ignore the History channel theatrics and you'll see there seems to be some strange anomalies there).

Me and wife watch this (when is season 4 on in the UK?....) and agree that once you get past the 'tv padding' its very interesting, clearly some strange events happening. We discovered 'Blind Frog Ranch' the other day, not so much on UFO/UAPs etc, more around the search for Aztec Gold and other precious metals - but the tone of the show is that something has gone on in the past in that area and they are being watched by US 'authorities'. Interestingly just 20 miles from Skinwalker Ranch.

[lionel_messias]

The Varghina incident is a classic case. Three women saw what was almost certainly a malnourished vagrant called “Mudhino” and claimed it was actually a strange creature with glowing red eyes. They said it was the “devil”. As usual with UFO stories it gets embellished and added to.

I don't usually hold any truck with cases like that and I've not seen the documentary. I would have to balance your dismissals a wee bit. I have heard James Fox, the maker of this documentary discuss how he spent 12 years putting it together, with numerous first-hand interviews of local people who were there. Including some military folk and doctors.

That said, the claims are so extreme that for this to ever come to light the levels of scrutiny and evidence needed would be a presentation never before seen in history.

One of the big challenges with this topic is the amount of "entertainment" connected to it; docuseries and spoofers around.

Because aside from all this there are a number of significant cases and very serious folk who have either witnessed them, or been involved in intelligence gathering on multiple cases
that could lead to disclosure.

1-2% of what is reported could potentially change everything and demands scrutiny.

[lobsterboy]

posted this originally in the technology and science forum but haven't received a reply as yet so thought i'd try my luck in here

2 things

1 i don't believe in alions

2 i know you don't spell it 'alions' that's just me being silly

anyhoo...

i don’t believe in alions nor spaceships – so i thought i’d see if any of you techno/space geeks could tell me what you think this is

i both took video and photos (compilation below) in west derby liverpool 2017

it was higher than the clouds (that's why the camera keeps on blurring as it cannot focus as the object/s go behind the clouds) and it just looks like a bunch of white balloons tumbling

now, judging by the height, those balloons would be pretty large so I don’t think they can be just a bunch of party balloons that have gotten ‘free’ – and who would have a bunch of large white party balloons anyway?

but i don’t know - maybe they are just large party balloons?

or could it be something to do with satellites? or some sort of re-entry balloons?

whaddaya think?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Lybbb7ce43I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Lybbb7ce43I</a>

Think its that house from Up?

[rob1966]

Think its that house from Up?

[Alan_X]

I don't usually hold any truck with cases like that and I've not seen the documentary. I would have to balance your dismissals a wee bit. I have heard James Fox, the maker of this documentary discuss how he spent 12 years putting it together, with numerous first-hand interviews of local people who were there. Including some military folk and doctors.

That said, the claims are so extreme that for this to ever come to light the levels of scrutiny and evidence needed would be a presentation never before seen in history.

One of the big challenges with this topic is the amount of "entertainment" connected to it; docuseries and spoofers around.

Because aside from all this there are a number of significant cases and very serious folk who have either witnessed them, or been involved in intelligence gathering on multiple cases
that could lead to disclosure.

1-2% of what is reported could potentially change everything and demands scrutiny.

James Fox is one of many UFO grifters out there.

[Alan_X]

Seems like Avi Loeb has jumped the shark and is suggesting the entire Universe might have been created by aliens.

Was Our Universe Created in a Laboratory?

Developing quantum-gravity technologies may elevate us to a “class A” civilization, capable of creating a baby universe

By Avi Loeb

...A less explored possibility is that our universe was created in the laboratory of an advanced technological civilization. Since our universe has a flat geometry with a zero net energy, an advanced civilization could have developed a technology that created a baby universe out of nothing through quantum tunneling.

This possible origin story unifies the religious notion of a creator with the secular notion of quantum gravity. We do not possess a predictive theory that combines the two pillars of modern physics: quantum mechanics and gravity. But a more advanced civilization might have accomplished this feat and mastered the technology of creating baby universes. If that happened, then not only could it account for the origin of our universe but it would also suggest that a universe like our own—which in this picture hosts an advanced technological civilization that gives birth to a new flat universe—is like a biological system that maintains the longevity of its genetic material through multiple generations...

https://www.scientificamerican.com./article/was-our-universe-created-in-a-laboratory/

His argument is the same as Christian Fundamentalist ideas about Intelligent Design - the Universe is 'just right' for life to exists so it must have been 'designed' by a higher power.

It seems that once you start down the crazy path there's no stopping.

[Alan_X]

I don't usually hold any truck with cases like that and I've not seen the documentary. I would have to balance your dismissals a wee bit. I have heard James Fox, the maker of this documentary discuss how he spent 12 years putting it together, with numerous first-hand interviews of local people who were there. Including some military folk and doctors.

That said, the claims are so extreme that for this to ever come to light the levels of scrutiny and evidence needed would be a presentation never before seen in history.

One of the big challenges with this topic is the amount of "entertainment" connected to it; docuseries and spoofers around.

Because aside from all this there are a number of significant cases and very serious folk who have either witnessed them, or been involved in intelligence gathering on multiple cases
that could lead to disclosure.

1-2% of what is reported could potentially change everything and demands scrutiny.

Do you believe in ghosts? Do you think mediums really contact the dead? Do you think 'mind readers' read minds?

[lionel_messias]

James Fox is one of many UFO grifters out there.

Well, this is the issue in terms of making money. I wouldn't be sure he is making that much from Netflix btw.

And as for spending 12 years of his life interviewing people in Brazil? I'm guessing there are better ways to spend his mortal years.

I have listened to him speak quite a few times (never seen any of his docs) and he appears genuine. It would be far more strange and elaborate if he had somehow faked everything he has ever talked about!

In fact, if everyone involved in UAP had faked EVERYTHING, then congrats, it's the weirdest, most elaborate hoax ever. They should go work for the Tory party or something.

[lionel_messias]

Do you believe in ghosts? Do you think mediums really contact the dead? Do you think 'mind readers' read minds?

This is classic whataboutery to create a context for your position. No, I do not, however when sceptical, trained, sober and reluctant senior Naval people report a phenomenon; where objects appear stationary, then move at absurd speeds, and also emerge transmedium from the Ocean and run rings around Hornet F18 fighter jets: in those cases, I say let's investigate with the best tools of science possible. And keep an open mind.

Like I said, you could put 98% of cases in the bin. But the 1-2% of cases reported could and might contain extremely important information for mankind.

I guarantee that if you spent 2-3 hours max listening to a couple of the interviewees on Ryan Graves "Merged" podcast you would change your view. His view is: this is a avation safety threat, we should find out what it is. A further view might be: if it is Russian or Chinese, we are really screwed.




*Spoiler: these things are not Russian, as their current conflict would be over.