Author Topic: What happened to our fighting spirit?  (Read 8011 times)

Offline Jimmyjames

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What happened to our fighting spirit?
« on: January 22, 2012, 10:32:40 pm »
For me the most disturbing concern from the match yesterday was the sheer lack of passion and fighting spirit on display as at no stage did we ever look like we were going to get stuck in, pull our socks up and battle for our lives out there. When Kenny came back a year ago it was blindingly obvious that in an instant he reinstalled a much needed team spirit so blatantly missing under Hodgson, the players suddenly started to believe again, they desperately wanted to show how much it meant to play for Kenny, to play hard for a unified team and to play for the fans. Despite some obvious squad shortcomings it was this desire that carried us forward and the desire that got us the results that lifted us up the table.

This season it seems this passion has gone and the fighting spirit that lifted us last season has all but gone. I have always been in awe at how much blood and guts we as a team have historically shown - going back to Ged it was there and if the 'team huddle' seemed a little contrived it definitely worked and helped us to some great 'backs to the wall' victories (the treble anyone). Rafa's teams (his final season aside) clearly had bags of spirit (Istanbul obvious starting point) and after the horror of Hodgson we had it back under Kenny, but this season what has happened?

This malaise seems to have festered and simmered and is now coming to the boil with displays lacking any guts, effort, passion, drive to succeed, the balls to try and do something a little different, an aversion to picking up the ball and doing something with it, risking a long shot, putting your neck on the line, risking injury in 50-50 balls - where the fuck is the basic blood and guts and want to wear the shirt that is the basic requirement for any player privileged enough to play for this beautiful club??

For years we have been taught that despite our inadaquecies and lack of technique and guile, British players were in the very least guaranteed to put their neck on the line and show a bit of 'Dunkirk spirit' and conversely we were taught that foreginers were purely 'Johhny come latelys' who didn't give a fuck about the team they were playing for as it was a stop gap and a mercenery excuse to earn a quick buck. Well from what i saw yesterday evening and what i have increasingly seen all season is that our nucleaus of new 'home grown' signings (Bellamy aside) lack any kind of fight, passion and most of all bollocks. Yes, they have their individual attributes (Henderson particulalrly) but oh my do they wilter under pressure. Never have a seem such bunch of flowers running round the pitch dodging tackles, jogging round the pitch with their fingers shoved up their arses, not chasing after lost causes, not having the aptitude to try and pick up the ball and make something happen!

Looking round the team, i see passion from Pepe who has shown commitment to us, i see passion from our back line who by the very fact they have been so tight this season indicates spirit, i see bucketfuls of tenacity from Jay and Lucas, of course i see passion from Suarez who anything is too passionate, and as for Stevie - well i don't need to comment here.

For me the collective of Downing, Adam, Henderson and Carroll are at the root of this as they have come in and not shown any commitment to the red shirt. I do feel a bit guilty saying this about Hendo as he does put a bit of perspiration (but a lack of trying something risky) in but as to the rest of them they need to take a look in the mirror and question exacty what do they get all that money for?

I can't help but feeling that Kenny's post match comments yesterday were alluding to these. Him like me and many of us feel short changed right now.

Much more needed.

Am i the only one who thinks this has gotten worse?

Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 12:41:31 am »
Blip
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline MagicB8all

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 01:09:12 am »
It left with G&T ...
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

Offline Azzandro

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 01:13:07 am »
We have no pace or creativity, what do you expect?

We did ok until the 3rd goal, then our players new that scoring 2 goals against the worst defence in the league was an impossible task

Offline Garcepticon

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 01:19:31 am »
Blip

Agree, we scrapped our way back against Stoke in the Carling Cup and Newcastle in the league.

Offline StuartAdams

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 01:21:28 am »
Agree, we scrapped our way back against Stoke in the Carling Cup and Newcastle in the league.

But that was the first time in a long time, I think. The OP has a very good point.

Offline The Fadman

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 01:24:13 am »
Still disheartening that we lost to a team that has the worst record at home out of the seven highest divisions in England.

Offline Junkle

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 07:23:54 am »
Sometimes players don't even need to fight hard to win games. THey just have to do right the little things. The players we brought in in the past year seem to complicate easy things. In terms of simplifying the games I would take the players we released over the ones we brought in.
OUT vs  IN
Meireles vs Adam: Kenny taught him where goals were.
Aquilani vs Hendersson: Acqua best touch in the whole PL
Babel vs Caroll: Babel would shoot and shoot for the 25 minutes he would be given until something gives in.
Torres vs Suarez... simply knew where the goals were.

Swansea's football is pleasing to the eye because their players do simplifying already simply things. Imagine if they could wake up with 100 mil to spend on players what kind of football we can see from them...
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Online Lucas DuoFlush

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 07:34:54 am »
If you gave 100 mil to Swansea they would become a top 10/7 team. What people don't seem to grasp is that inflation exists and exists to a much higher extent in football. 14. whatever mill we payed for Henderson isn't actually that much in the grand scheme of things. Also 20 mil for Downing - on the face of it a solid, experienced winger who has been consistently good over his career isn't a lot - United spent more on Young, who effectively is more of a gamble of transfer funds than Downing was. Admittedly, it hasn't turned out that way, but it would've been a very hard call to make without the blessed hindsight we all use to criticise club decisions.
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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 07:36:02 am »
It's what left a lasting impression on me as well. But it's nothing new I'm afraid, it's been like a curse on this club for 20 years give or take a few seasons here and there. It's as if once some players pull on the red shirt they slip into some sort of comfort zone.
 Compare it to the attitude displayed by Slurguson's players, no matter how many medals they win they fight tooth and nail for every ball. Sad really.

Offline Zlen

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 07:37:22 am »
It's smouldering somewhere underneath the burden of expectations and the habit of complacency.

Offline Gerrard[LFC]

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 07:44:20 am »
we have players who couldnt care less about the club as long as they get their paycheck and get look in by National team managers coz they play for Liverpool. Downing, Carroll, Adam are those. So they just need to turn up while others can not do it by themselves.
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Offline -Willo-

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 07:47:45 am »
Remember the times when we could be 1, or even 2 goals down, and you just knew it wasn't over yet, and we'd at least push and push to see if we can get back into the game, City away, 'Boro at home, Bolton too all spring to mind under Rafa, we used to have a reputation for it, ''Its not over yet, especially whilst they're playing Liverpool'' or something to that effect, sad times.

Offline Malski

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 08:29:46 am »
Think we badly miss that defensive midfielder that helps the defence and midfield.  We've been blessed with soem quality over teh years, Didi, Mascherano, Alonso all quality holding midfielders.  Since Lucas got injured we've had to rely on Spearing for that role and when he's been injured we haven't got that type of player to sit in that position and win the ball back.  Also gives the other midfielders a bit more freedom knowing that that area inbetween mid and defence is covered.  Not getting on anyones backs here, need to get behind the team and carry on, forget the last result, lets go forward.

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2012, 08:45:35 am »
Still disheartening that we lost to a team that has the worst record at home out of the seven highest divisions in England.

Aye gets you right in your guts.

I watched the Canaries play Chelsea.  They wanted victory.

Bolton did as well. They did better than the Canaries because our team decided to have a collective of bad hair day.

That's what happens sometimes with the underdog. Fight to the death and victory. Surely our team could get that mind set too. League is a battle until season ends. Fight they should.
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Offline Adamski LFC

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 09:13:55 am »
Aye gets you right in your guts.

I watched the Canaries play Chelsea.  They wanted victory.

Bolton did as well. They did better than the Canaries because our team decided to have a collective of bad hair day.

That's what happens sometimes with the underdog. Fight to the death and victory. Surely our team could get that mind set too. League is a battle until season ends. Fight they should.

If it is that, then no wonder we lack fighting spirit against minnows (sorry Bolton), as we're better?!? in the minds of the players.  Ergo, against the sides stronger than us, Shitty, Scum, Barcelona :-) we have that spirit of the underdog.
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Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2012, 09:20:19 am »
Very harsh on Henderson. For me he's shown more than the majority of our recent signings and enough to indicate that he has the potential to become a top player for us.

And as Jaffod says above, this isn't a new issue. It's not even a 'last decade' issue. It's been evident for the last twenty years or so now and it's the reason why we've become a cup team. A 'big game' team, able to turn it on for the big occasion and play above ourselves, but unable to carry that level forward consistantly. Dare I say it, we've become Everton-esque.

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Offline Junkle

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2012, 09:23:20 am »
If you gave 100 mil to Swansea they would become a top 10/7 team. What people don't seem to grasp is that inflation exists and exists to a much higher extent in football. 14. whatever mill we payed for Henderson isn't actually that much in the grand scheme of things.

With our current form having spend at least R100 we are then no different from Swansea because it looks like that is where we are going to end when the season come to the end unless something drastic happens, e.g. like the return of Suarez may be.

In terms of inflation and what people don't grasp... is that the majority of us LFC supporters are not financial gurus therefore we would argue that inflation would apply equally to both us and Swansea and to ManU for that matter. Therefore in the grand scheme of things Henderson is worth 20 mil whatever we paid and is going to be judged on that not on inflation. I hope we had bought him for 10 mil so that when he thinks it is time to move on we could make some hefty profits like with Alonso, Mascherano, Torres.

The bottom line is that we did not do proper checks to see if the people we brought to the team had the "mentality" as Rafa would say to fight for this team. We have brought a fighter in Suarez even though he borders on "stupidity" at times [biting people and showing them middle fingers] costing teams invaluable points.
The weakest link in the team is our main man BR.

Offline El Ninos Black Eye

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2012, 10:02:23 am »
What happened to our fighting spirit?
He got injured against Chelsea and is out for the season.
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Offline StuartAdams

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 10:24:02 am »
Suárez is a good start to get our fighting spirit back. We need more absolute shites. We're too nice.

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2012, 10:25:28 am »
Still disheartening that we lost to a team that has the worst record at home out of the seven highest divisions in England.
Not saying we shouldn't have won, but holding their past record against us isn't entirely fair. They had the worst record. But they are on the way of turning it around, at some point, all teams improve. In a way, because they had such a bad record, they had to do something about it. We're still thinking we're great and it'll happen automatically.

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Offline Lindkvist

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 10:27:03 am »
What happened to our fighting spirit?
He got injured against Chelsea and is out for the season.

this

Offline Brandon@Flowers

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2012, 10:29:49 am »
What happened to our fighting spirit?
He got injured against Chelsea and is out for the season.

This. And now we have to depend on a midfielder that would only put up on a fight, if it was a food fight.

Offline StuartAdams

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2012, 10:42:18 am »
This. And now we have to depend on a midfielder that would only put up on a fight, if it was a food fight.

Or a barfight with a DJ!  ;D

Offline stonty

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2012, 11:16:09 am »
Sometimes its hard to motivate millionaires

Offline horne

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2012, 11:50:06 am »
media would have you think we are in melt down...were not...only a few games ago we gave city a game at their own ground in a semi final.
ok they were without key players but so were we?
doom and gloom merchants on here, and biased anti libpool knobs in the media who are agenda driven are poisoning minds.....listen to the auld arses who are ingrained in the liverpool way and stick with them and we will get success...go the other way and were doomed to failure.
you get what you think !...start thinking positively...like shanks and paisley....and kenny....born winners

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Offline best-foot-forward

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2012, 11:54:52 am »
some right drama queens in here...jeez.

Offline gazzathered

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2012, 05:31:06 pm »
We need players who can tackle and aren't worried to get stuck in. In Carroll, Henderson and DOwning we haven't got that.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2012, 05:35:35 pm »
it is not the fighting spirit that is missing, it was in the Bolton game a leader on the pitch to grab their teamates by the throat or balls and bollock them out, Stevie is not that kind of player on the pitch and only Craig seemed up for it!
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Offline PIPA23

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2012, 05:42:33 pm »
Bellamy and Suarez type of players are what we need more...

they would die for the shirt and are not affraid...they are crazy in good way...

Offline Monsieur

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2012, 05:54:38 pm »
Last year under Hodgson I felt exactly the same as I do now - despondent, miserable and pessimistic.

The difference between then and now is that at least last year I knew that at some point Hodgson would be going and that Dalglish would take over the reins for a bit...

...Now I have the same low feeling but I can't see where any improvemnt can come from.

Lucas back in several months time, Suarez back next month...but even Suarez isn't knocking the balls in.

Where, oh where, are the goals going to come from????

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2012, 05:58:01 pm »
Last year under Hodgson I felt exactly the same as I do now - despondent, miserable and pessimistic.

The difference between then and now is that at least last year I knew that at some point Hodgson would be going and that Dalglish would take over the reins for a bit...

...Now I have the same low feeling but I can't see where any improvemnt can come from.

Lucas back in several months time, Suarez back next month...but even Suarez isn't knocking the balls in.

Where, oh where, are the goals going to come from????

I hope this isnt a wind up there is no comparison between the two !

 With Roy people stayed away and we were relegation fodder, now we are seventh still in contact and in a semi final this week!
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Offline Monsieur

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2012, 06:00:53 pm »
I hope this isnt a wind up there is no comparison between the two !

 With Roy people stayed away and we were relegation fodder, now we are seventh still in contact and in a semi final this week!

Not a wind up at all - just an observation based on the OP about the lack of fight and passion. My point is that after the last few games I can't see where any improvement is going to come from. The tactics aren't working, majority of players aren't working and the signs of renewed vigour aren't there.

Unless you have seen different games than me over the last month or so?

Offline absoluttchamp

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2012, 06:03:10 pm »
I hope this isnt a wind up there is no comparison between the two !

 With Roy people stayed away and we were relegation fodder, now we are seventh still in contact and in a semi final this week!

1. Hodgson started to blame the supporters... just that single one difference between him and Kenny tells everything.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2012, 06:06:12 pm »
The more I listen and read the well balanced views of others the more I feel that the players we signed in the summer just dont have it in them to make that next step up.
Im not panicking but I do wonder.
Im of the ilk that new players need time to adjust and with this season being a transitional period I think they do need the time and patience to be given the chance to step up. It cant be easy.
But the more you hear it the more it kinda makes sense that they are no where near there yet.
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Offline foreverred1983

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2012, 06:29:04 pm »
Why were the players so shit on saturday? As with all things in life there isnt a single answer and thats the worrying thing

there are a number of problems. in my opinion our transfer policy of signing british players needs to be halted. they just do not have the same technical ability of players we have signed in the past. Aquilani and Meireles would be quite good in the passing game we play. a passing game that when we do play well is quite difficult to stop.

Carroll has lost whatever it was he was supposed to have when we signed him. I didnt know then was it was and i certainly dont know now.

Gerrard and adam as a midfield pair will not work. Rafa worked it out years ago that stevie isnt a centre mid, he isnt disciplined enough to do the dirty work like lucas.
adam is too slow to do the dirty work even if he wanted to do it. Lucas is a massive massive loss. Spearing by default will or should play in every game possible when he is available.

we dont have a single player in midfield or upfront who can turn on the ball and beat a man. Suarez can do it but no one else. Downing can run fast but a tricky winger he is not. it is frankly unbelievable that we have scored just 25 goals in 22 games. Not because we should have scored more but because we dont look like scoring more. we can keep the ball quite well at times but sometimes i think we keep the ball because players are afraid to try something different to beat a man. we are keeping the ball where we cannot hurt other teams.
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Offline WorldChampions

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2012, 06:31:06 pm »
Last year under Hodgson I felt exactly the same as I do now - despondent, miserable and pessimistic.

Really??

Offline astowell1

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2012, 06:32:03 pm »
Our team hasn't had any balls for years.

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2012, 06:32:55 pm »
Last year under Hodgson I felt exactly the same as I do now - despondent, miserable and pessimistic.

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Offline Monsieur

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Re: What happened to our fighting spirit?
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2012, 06:34:28 pm »
Really??

About the current state of Liverpool FC as a fighting team - but then thats rather obvious, isn't it?
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