Topic: When will it be enough ?

[Vegeta]

It won't stop that senile old fuck Biden is giving Israel his full blessings. I don't see him doing anything to put a stop to Israel the bloke does not even know what day of the week it is let alone realising a genocide is taking place. Netanyahu is laughing behind Biden's back he knows nothing will be done and that Biden is completely gullible and will accept any bullshit he tells him.

[Mumm-Ra]

What's the weather like on Planet X? Do you even believe half the shit you say? Coming from a person who said the below, not sure why anyone anyone would take you seriously on here.

I didn’t see anything wrong with his post, what was your issue with it

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Firstly, thanks for acknowledging the points. And a good, measured response.

Hamas can’t be eradicated militarily - maybe so. But Israel has the right to respond militarily to an attack on the scale of 10/7 surely? What country would not?

For your second paragraph, I agree with this. But who are you suggesting provides this alternative outlook for Palestinians? Is that up to Israel? Gaza has been given billions in aid, it could be a decent place to live, but Hamas (who were voted in) spent it on rockets and tunnels.

Sidenote, not directed at you but I feel like there’s some dissonance where pro Palestine people view Hamas as this fringe group, just a handful of angry dudes that the population want nothing to do with. Like a mob of hooligans in a football crowd.

Thanks in return.

Yes, Israel has the right to a military response, but that right did not extend to the slaughter of thousands of Palestinians, the bombing of hospitals and ambulances, and the denial of aid and essential goods, nor to the razing to the ground of most of the buildings, nor to the deliberate destruction of farmland. All of that is genocidal in intent, in the opinion of many. And Israel's constant excuse of "Hamas embed themselves within the civilian population" is not an excuse that we would tolerate from any other government, including our own. If the UK government had started indiscriminately shelling Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s in order to annihilate the IRA, it would have been seen, quite rightly, as a war crime, no matter what the IRA had done.

As to who provides the alternative outlook, well yes of course Israel is a major player in that. If it continues to steal land, and refuses even to entertain discussions on a Palestinian state, of course Hamas will flourish. The smart (and just) thing to do would have been to stop the settlements and negotiate a two-state solution decades ago, surely? But the ultra-nationalists are a powerful and ideologically insane lobby in Israel, just as Hamas are within Gaza.

And finally, support for Hamas was pretty low according to the polls I saw before the atrocities of 10/7. Now, of course, it's rising rapidly, especially in the West Bank (where it was at 12% before the attacks).

I appreciate your willingness to discuss this frankly.

[Kenny's Jacket]

The thing is, if people really are upset by all the bloodletting, and want the regime pushing all this to go, do they support the actions of the Labour government who did exactly this in 2003 to a far worse regime?

Christ, this is a terrible false equivalence

The criticism of Blair wasn't because her got rid of Sadaam, its because the War caused the death of 100,000s of people and the reason for the War was a lie about WMDs

Israel is a democracy and Israelis voted in Nethanyahu.  Those  wanting him gone are not suggesting we bomb fuck out of Tel Aviv, more that they remove him from office.

[Mumm-Ra]

Thanks in return.

Yes, Israel has the right to a military response, but that right did not extend to the slaughter of thousands of Palestinians, the bombing of hospitals and ambulances, and the denial of aid and essential goods, nor to the razing to the ground of most of the buildings, nor to the deliberate destruction of farmland. All of that is genocidal in intent, in the opinion of many. And Israel's constant excuse of "Hamas embed themselves within the civilian population" is not an excuse that we would tolerate from any other government, including our own. If the UK government had started indiscriminately shelling Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s in order to annihilate the IRA, it would have been seen, quite rightly, as a war crime, no matter what the IRA had done.

As to who provides the alternative outlook, well yes of course Israel is a major player in that. If it continues to steal land, and refuses even to entertain discussions on a Palestinian state, of course Hamas will flourish. The smart (and just) thing to do would have been to stop the settlements and negotiate a two-state solution decades ago, surely? But the ultra-nationalists are a powerful and ideologically insane lobby in Israel, just as Hamas are within Gaza.

And finally, support for Hamas was pretty low according to the polls I saw before the atrocities of 10/7. Now, of course, it's rising rapidly, especially in the West Bank (where it was at 12% before the attacks).

I appreciate your willingness to discuss this frankly.

Cheers. And yes, while I’m pro Israel and think Hamas need to be wiped out, and fully supported them going into Gaza - the scale of death and destruction at this point is hard to stomach. I’m not sure what it’s achieving at this point. But how can they stop if the hostages are still there?

As for the 2 state solution, now we’re getting into a nuance minefield- but my (quite possibly biased) take is that Clinton had that on the table in 2000 at Camp David. It was all agreed by all parties then Arafat backed off. Since then I don’t know that I’ve heard anything about Palestinians pushing for a peaceful agreement. I don’t lay it all at the Palestinians door though there are definitely dark forces in the Israeli govt that don’t want it either. I do think Israel has played a little game where they look like the peaceful reasonable ones and the Palestinians are the suicidal nutcases.

But overall, in terms of reaching the goal of a peaceful two state solution, I’d have to say there’s been more support and effort put in, and willingness to compromise, from the Israeli government and people than the Palestinians.

[GreatEx]

Why does this thread exist and yet posts about voting in the POTUS election were wiped out? So annoying being censored when posting within guidelines, taking the effort to include news links, etc.

[TipTopKop]

I didn’t see anything wrong with his post, what was your issue with it

You mean apart from the unnecessary Islamophobic undertones and mislabels?


Hamas is a political faction. If we were talking about Hizbollah, I'd understand the religious argument.

This situation is not about religions, it may have certain undertones in the debate, but the reality is this is simply about people wishing for their right to exist.

If you want to force the debate down a religious route, perhaps we need to ask why was the Saint Porphyrius Church in Gaza bombed while it sheltered Christians? Where do we draw the line on religious extremism when videos circulate about Christians running in Jerusalem while being spat at by ultra orthodox Jews? and finally why are Hamas accused of believing in "fairy tales" when the whole notion of Israel is founded on a religious right (same God by the way) to exist on this land? Why are we giving one side a free pass to their cuckoo land beliefs while criticising others for allegedly doing the same?

With regards to the Palestinians not wanting a peace deal, here's a quote about Mahmood Abbas' reaction to a proposed peace deal:

Not only did he not say no — the whole rumor about him rejecting it flatly is untrue. At every possible occasion, from then on until today, President Abbas emphasizes and he relays to me as well… that he never ever said no to this plan.

What he actually said to me was this plan sounds very impressive, it sounds very serious… He was excited and very open-minded to the option of making this agreement. But he said, you know, I’m not an expert on maps. How can I sign something before I show it to the experts on our side to examine it?

Mahmoud Abbas is a very qualified gentleman, a decent, peace-loving person. I like him, I trust him, I would’ve made peace with him. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out for reasons that are beyond my comprehension, sometimes.

That quote above is from former Israeli PM Ehud Olmert.

Abbas proposed a peace deal in 2014. But to quote the NY Times:

WASHINGTON — On May 2, a week after peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians fell apart, senior American diplomats gave an interview to a prominent Israeli journalist in which they said Israel’s aggressive pursuit of new Jewish settlements had sabotaged the negotiations.

While the officials were not identified, one was widely assumed to be Martin S. Indyk, the Obama administration’s peace envoy. But it might as well have been President Obama himself, a senior administration official said, since the White House cleared the interview and the critical remarks faithfully reflect the president’s own views.

Mr. Obama, stung by his second failed attempt to broker a peace deal, has decided to take a conspicuous breather from the Middle East peace process, this official said, “to let the failure of the talks sink in for both parties, and see if that causes them to reconsider.

Peace is tough to negotiate, but it is not impossible. It just needs everyone to sit down and (without the US lobby/Qatar and their shitty influences) thrash out some kind of understanding.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Needs to be stopped right now.
This is not a war, this is pure evil genocide.

The UN has ruled it isn't - for something to be classed as genocide it needs to be systematic. You know, like drawing up a map of kibbutzes and then going to each one kidnapping, raping and murdering every single person there.

Hamas would have been weakened a long time ago if there had been any movement at all towards a Palestinian state. Instead, successive Israeli governments continued to facilitate the theft of Palestinian land by ultra-nationalist settlers, undermined the more moderate voices within Fatah, and imposed its version of apartheid on Palestinians.

Give people something to live for, a promise of a better future, and Hamas loses much of its power. Until then, it will remain as a desperate, hate-filled movement recruiting from a population with little left to lose.

The last time Israel gave something concrete in negotations with a Hamas-led government was when they withdrew from Gaza. Hamas's response was to run for election on a platform of armed resistance, and they won in a landslide. Before murdering the opposition. And spending the next few years launching rockets and public transport suicide bombing campaigns into Israel. Why would Hamas have any reason to agree to a solution that involves a Jewish Israel when their entire reason for being is to oppose it, and when they can simply kill any opposition who disagrees? Why would they lose support when they've proven their methods work?

I don't even agree with the second point either. Germany and Japan didn't harbor hatred against the UK and the US after World War II, and China and Japan have managed not to launch another war against each other since then. But their genocidal, war-crazed governments also weren't allowed to stay in power. The biggest obstacle to peace from that side is Hamas running the schools and teaching everyone that Palestine can never be free while Israel exists.

Nobody & I do mean nobody trusts the Israelis Netanyahu to stick to a ceasefire

You're post illustrates what we all know, in that Israel, currently, cannot police itself.  It is hellbent on bloodthirsty revenge and ethnic cleansing.

It isn't about either, it's simple logic. There's no point in signing a treaty with Hamas because it has said outright it will repeat October 7th again and again and again, every chance it gets, until every Jew in the Middle East is dead or forced out. That's what From the River to the Sea means. Israel has concluded there can be no peace while Hamas exists, and that no one else will get rid of them. So, it is eliminating every piece of Hamas from Gaza - weapons cache by weapons cache, bunker by bunker, tunnel by tunnel and leader by leader, as fast as it can and with as few Israeli casualties as possible. And then negotiations can start. Do I think its methods are morally excusable? No, but I also don't have to live with Hamas a few miles away from my house.

Ultimately, the only way I see this being fixed immediately is if the UN/NATO enforce a ceasefire, take charge of the Gaza disarmament process with Israeli consultation, establish an autonomous Gazan state with Hamas outlawed, and begin investigating war crimes on the Israeli side with any guilty parties tried in The Hague. But that won't happen anytime soon because a) neither current government would agree to it in a million years and b) the US would need to get involved, and the scope of what could go wrong means that would never ever happen in an election year. A long-term ceasefire with none of those conditions attached just means everything starts all over again and we're doing this again in a few years time.

[Mumm-Ra]

You mean apart from the unnecessary Islamophobic undertones and mislabels?


Hamas is a political faction. If we were talking about Hizbollah, I'd understand the religious argument.

This situation is not about religions, it may have certain undertones in the debate, but the reality is this is simply about people wishing for their right to exist.

If you want to force the debate down a religious route, perhaps we need to ask why was the Saint Porphyrius Church in Gaza bombed while it sheltered Christians? Where do we draw the line on religious extremism when videos circulate about Christians running in Jerusalem while being spat at by ultra orthodox Jews? and finally why are Hamas accused of believing in "fairy tales" when the whole notion of Israel is founded on a religious right (same God by the way) to exist on this land? Why are we giving one side a free pass to their cuckoo land beliefs while criticising others for allegedly doing the same?

With regards to the Palestinians not wanting a peace deal, here's a quote about Mahmood Abbas' reaction to a proposed peace deal:
That quote above is from former Israeli PM Ehud Olmert.

Abbas proposed a peace deal in 2014. But to quote the NY Times:Peace is tough to negotiate, but it is not impossible. It just needs everyone to sit down and (without the US lobby/Qatar and their shitty influences) thrash out some kind of understanding.

You don’t think Hamas has a strong religious (fundamentalist islam) ideology?? I can’t be reading that right.

As for the ultra Orthodox Jews spitting at Christians, they are horrible religious nutcases. Their influence on Israeli politics is growing, apparently, and they should be shut the fuck out. There’s no place for them or their Islamist counterparts in any productive negotiations.

[TipTopKop]

You don’t think Hamas has a strong religious (fundamentalist islam) ideology?? I can’t be reading that right.

As for the ultra Orthodox Jews spitting at Christians, they are horrible religious nutcases. Their influence on Israeli politics is growing, apparently, and they should be shut the fuck out. There’s no place for them or their Islamist counterparts in any productive negotiations.

I never said there are no religious undertones in either side; religious nutcases exist in every country and within every creed, but to me the issue is further than religions.

Religion may have set the table to start with, but this crisis has grown far further than that.

These days (and probably for the longest time) it's all about US lobbys, influences, Qatari money and the innocents on both sides are caught in the middle.

The only way out of this is if they shut the noise from either side and come to some sort of agreement.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

The UN has ruled it isn't - for something to be classed as genocide it needs to be systematic.

Has it? It agreed that there was a case to be heard and ordered Israel not to commit genocidal acts. Hardly a ringing endorsement of their position!

Let's not misreport facts.

[rawcusk8]

Oh wow RAWK allows us to have a thread on this? Many cleverly titled threads and hundreds of pages for the Qatar World Cup rightly calling out human rights abuse but surprisingly silent on genocide.

[Mumm-Ra]

Oh wow RAWK allows us to have a thread on this? Many cleverly titled threads and hundreds of pages for the Qatar World Cup rightly calling out human rights abuse but surprisingly silent on genocide.

This is a very divisive emotive and thus hard to moderate topic

Qatar World Cup wasn’t divisive at all, not even in the same ballpark as topics go

Are you trying to get this locked, if not stfu

[classycarra]

I'm positively stunned that this thread is allowed on Zionist Rawk. It's only February, why the rush? 

you'll get this thread locked - which, judging by your form appears to be your end goal

[The North Bank]

Whats the discussion turned into now, has israel got the right to genocide?

Surprised theres 2 sides to this argument.
Actually not surprised at all, been here long enough.

[Sangria]

Whats the discussion turned into now, has israel got the right to genocide?

Surprised theres 2 sides to this argument.
Actually not surprised at all, been here long enough.

Do you think we should end genocidal regimes?

[Jiminy Cricket]

Why does this thread exist and yet posts about voting in the POTUS election were wiped out? So annoying being censored when posting within guidelines, taking the effort to include news links, etc.

Yep.

[John C]

Why does this thread exist and yet posts about voting in the POTUS election were wiped out? So annoying being censored when posting within guidelines, taking the effort to include news links, etc.

There was a mini-clean-up as you well know because you even posted "in before the lock". Before I was Mod the warning template was often used for IBTL posts.
Sometimes other posts are casualty to a clean-up.

[DangerScouse]

Hamas are despicable c*nts. Netanyahu and the "IDF" are despicable c*nts.

[Wool]

Christ, this is a terrible false equivalence

The criticism of Blair wasn't because her got rid of Sadaam, its because the War caused the death of 100,000s of people and the reason for the War was a lie about WMDs

Israel is a democracy and Israelis voted in Nethanyahu.  Those  wanting him gone are not suggesting we bomb fuck out of Tel Aviv, more that they remove him from office.

Good post mate.

[Jiminy Cricket]

There was a mini-clean-up as you well know because you even posted "in before the lock". Before I was Mod the warning template was often used for IBTL posts.
Sometimes other posts are casualty to a clean-up.

But it seems that posts made in good faith, within guidelines, and on-topic, are removed too. Seemingly, the members causing the problem are unaffected by the clear out; but the time and efforts of other posters who post within guidelines is wasted. And this happens regularly.

I appreciate that moderating is a pain, and probably a huge pain on the Affairs forum. But this doesn't feel very fair.

PS 'IBTL'?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Why are people moaning at the mods about another thread being locked on here, we have a question for the mods thread for that.

[Snail]

Why are people moaning at the mods about another thread being locked on here, we have a question for the mods thread for that.

Probably because they want this one to get locked.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Firstly, thanks for acknowledging the points. And a good, measured response.

Hamas can’t be eradicated militarily - maybe so. But Israel has the right to respond militarily to an attack on the scale of 10/7 surely? What country would not?

Right to respond, yes. But that doesn't mean the right to respond in whatever form Israel pleases, even if in breach of interntional law (and a potentially very serious breach of international law, given the ICJ interim ruling).

For your second paragraph, I agree with this. But who are you suggesting provides this alternative outlook for Palestinians? Is that up to Israel? Gaza has been given billions in aid, it could be a decent place to live, but Hamas (who were voted in) spent it on rockets and tunnels.

Absolutely Israel have to play their part in providing that outlook. Israel is the undisputed dominant power and has been for 50 years. Israel decides whether or not food, aid, and supplies can enter Gaza. Israel decides whether or not it will actively support settlers in the West Bank. Israel had the power to demand settlers leave the Gaza Strip. Israel has the power to flatten an area of 2.5 million people. Even accounting for Hamas's (unexpected and shocking) ability to breach Israel's border fence and wontonly butcher Israeli civilians on 7th October, the power dynamics in this scenario remain completely one sided. Any focus on Israel at the expense of Hamas stems from this basic fact.

Hamas may have been voted in in 2006, but that's been the only free and fair election. Hamas haven't allowed another one. Around 50% of Gaza's population were not even born when that election ocurred. But even here, Israel has had an important part to play:

1) Hamas have been in power in Gaza. But Fatah have been the governing power of the West Bank. Israel have had the oppurtunity to show Palestinians that voting for a peaceful government that is willing to cooperate with Israel can have good results. But what has been the outcome of that? The Israeli government has continued to facilitate illegal settlements in the West Bank, the confiscation of Palestinian land, and the abuse of Palestinian civilians. In fact, one of the reasons why the Gaza border was left so undefended is because the Netenyahu government had diverted most of it's security resources to protecting settler land grabs in the West Bank. Israel has even allowed the arming of the settler population and more recently drafted said settlers into the security forces to continue their abuse of Palestinians, but this time under the official banner of Israel. There has been zero attempt to prove to the Palestinian people that seeking a peaceful alternative works.

2) Sections of the Israeli state have (quite unbelievable) acted to encourage the growth of Hamas (an organization that on the extreme wings incorporates genocidal rhetoric towards Israeli's) in order to politically divide the Palestinian people.

Netenyahu has even, for the first time, publicly dismissed the notion there is any sort of Two State solution. If there are not Two States, than that means Israel is the ruling state of Palestinians, with a duty of care to protect Palestinians. And amongst all this, the Israeli population has itself only become more extreme and radicalised. Israel's young popualtion have spearheaded support for the Israeli far right.

Sidenote, not directed at you but I feel like there’s some dissonance where pro Palestine people view Hamas as this fringe group, just a handful of angry dudes that the population want nothing to do with. Like a mob of hooligans in a football crowd.

But at this stage it doen't matter. You aren't going to bomb the support for Hamas out of people. If anything, there are going to be whole new generations of supporters for Hamas, and if not Hamas, than other armed and violent groups. Nothing screams radicalisation more than having your entire city and livelihood bombed into dust, being starved and moved around at will, all-the-while watching your friends, family and neighbours bombed into pieces, for months on end.

[Bobsackamano]

Great news, 2 hostages have been freed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/12/israeli-hostages-freed-rafah-idf-gaza-report-dozens-palestinians-killed-strikes

Hopefully the battle for Rafah could see the hostages freed, an end to Hamas is Gaza and an end to this awful war.

[LuverlyRita]

Last week the "Led By Donkeys" pressure group laid out a memorial to the more than 11,500 Palestinian children and 36 Israeli children who’ve been killed since October 7th. It was a line 5km long of children’s clothes. If you want to try and justify those killings then you need to give your head a wobble. If you want to ask the question "Which tribe/race/religion" did those clothes belong to?" before deciding whether to condemn those numbers then you have truly lost your moral compass. There is no justification for the wholescale slaughter of innocents. So in answer to the question "When is enough" ,  it was enough for me a long time ago.

[Red-Soldier]

Last week the "Led By Donkeys" pressure group laid out a memorial to the more than 11,500 Palestinian children and 36 Israeli children who’ve been killed since October 7th. It was a line 5km long of children’s clothes. If you want to try and justify those killings then you need to give your head a wobble. If you want to ask the question "Which tribe/race/religion" did those clothes belong to?" before deciding whether to condemn those numbers then you have truly lost your moral compass. There is no justification for the wholescale slaughter of innocents. So in answer to the question "When is enough" ,  it was enough for me a long time ago.

Agree with your post.

It was in my local area.

Children's clothes laid on beach in Gaza war protest

A three-mile (5km) long line of old children's clothes has been strewn along Bournemouth beach in a protest at the war in Gaza.

Activists from the Led by Donkeys group said they were laying more than 11,000 sets of clothes to represent children killed on both sides of the conflict since 7 October.

It took a team of 80 people five hours to lay the clothes.

Although Israel has said it strives to avoid civilian casualties, including issuing evacuation orders, more than 11,500 under-18s have been killed according to Palestinian health officials.

In a statement, Led By Donkeys called for the US and UK governments to push for an immediate ceasefire.

“All children are innocent whether they’re Palestinian or Israeli," it said.

The line stretched from Canford Cliffs in the west, almost reaching Boscombe in the east.

Organiser James Sadri said: "If you were to walk this line it would take you an hour to walk past 5km of children who've been killed - and that should be a wake-up call for all of us.

"We're trying to communicate the scale of the killing - you cannot communicate that by writing a number in an article or saying it in a news bulletin, you have to see it, you have to feel it."

The clothes are set to be removed, cleaned and distributed to charities and second-hand shops.

Among those on the beach who saw the installation, Rebecca Ross said it was "shocking".

"It's so, so sad - each represents a life lost which is so sickening," she said.

Another beach visitor Sheila Dayman also said it was "sad and shocking".

"They're all children, innocent lives on both sides, Israelis and Palestinians. I'm not political but we just pray for peace," she said.

Led By Donkeys began in 2018 as an anti-Brexit group and has since been responsible for stunts including paining the road outside the Russian Embassy in London in the colours of the Ukrainian flag.

It also set up a sting operation in which the ex-health secretary Matt Hancock and ex-chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng apparently discussed rates to advise a sham firm in March 2023.

I am unsure whether some on here realise they are outing themselves as ******** ******* *********, or not.

[LuverlyRita]

But Israel has the right to respond militarily to an attack on the scale of 10/7 surely? What country would not?

The "right to respond" argument can be used by both sides. Israel has not sat atop the moral high ground for a very long time (illegal land grabs, cruel and damaging blockades and utterly disproportionate response to any attack). Was the method of Hamas attack justifiable? No. Is the method of response justifiable? No. Is this likely to escalate? Probably. Whatever gains Israel thinks it might achieve are likely to be short term because its current actions must surely be the mother-of-all recruitment campaigns for those who seek to do harm to the country.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Great news, 2 hostages have been freed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/12/israeli-hostages-freed-rafah-idf-gaza-report-dozens-palestinians-killed-strikes

Hopefully the battle for Rafah could see the hostages freed, an end to Hamas is Gaza and an end to this awful war.

And it doesn't matter how many more civilians die, as long as those hostages are freed (which they won't be via military action if the war to date is anything to go by)?

There has to be a limit, right? Or is it just limitless killing until there's no one left?

[Bobsackamano]

And it doesn't matter how many more civilians die, as long as those hostages are freed (which they won't be via military action if the war to date is anything to go by)?

That's a rather extreme proposition to ask anyone that doesn't lead to productive discourse. It would be like me responding 'so you think it's fine for Hamas to rape and slaughter women and children and get away with it'?

Maybe let's assume neither of us think these extreme things are good?

[Red-Soldier]

That's a rather extreme proposition to ask anyone that doesn't lead to productive discourse. It would be like me responding 'so you think it's fine for Hamas to rape and slaughter women and children and get away with it'?

Maybe let's assume neither of us think these extreme things are good?

Your post seemed like you are fine with the extent of the slaughter so far, and was anticipating "the battle Rafah", which will be another bloobath and humanitarian disaster.

It had rather a celebratory and anticipatory tone.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Why are people moaning at the mods about another thread being locked on here, we have a question for the mods thread for that.

Probably because they want this one to get locked.

I, for one, am unaware of the 'ask the mods thread'. Besides, why would asking the question result in this thread being locked?

[TepidT2O]

Does any one think the destruction of Gaza is the only way to ultimately end this conflict?
Does anyone think the destruction of Israel is the only way to ultimately end this conflict?

[Bobsackamano]

Your post seemed like you are fine with the extent of the slaughter so far, and was anticipating "the battle Rafah", which will be another bloobath and humanitarian disaster.

It had rather a celebratory and anticipatory tone.

That's a rather extreme interpretation that doesn't lead to productive discourse. It would be like me responding 'so you think it's fine for Hamas to rape and slaughter women and children and get away with it'?

Maybe let's assume neither of us think these extreme things are good?

[Kenny's Jacket]

I, for one, am unaware of the 'ask the mods thread'. Besides, why would asking the question result in this thread being locked?

This is the post that YOU agreed with

Why does this thread exist and yet posts about voting in the POTUS election were wiped out? So annoying being censored when posting within guidelines, taking the effort to include news links, etc.

Yep.

[Red-Soldier]

That's a rather extreme interpretation that doesn't lead to productive discourse. It would be like me responding 'so you think it's fine for Hamas to rape and slaughter women and children and get away with it'?

Maybe let's assume neither of us think these extreme things are good?

Is it?  I suggest you read your post again.  I cannot assume anytning about you, just what you write in your posts.  Perhaps you can explain and flesh it out a bit more.  As, looking at your posts in this thread, you haven't condemned any violence and just posted something about 2 hostages and the "battle for Rafah".

If two of us thought similar things, about your post, it's likely that it gives that impression to others too.


For me, this is about the terrible deaths of innocents and everything else comes after that.  Stopping those deaths is what we should be focusing on now.  I don't know about you but, I don't like to see children being displaced and killed.

Deflection and equivalence is immoral, and wrong.

[Bobsackamano]

Is it?  I suggest you read your post again.  I cannot assume anytning about you, just what you write in your posts.  Perhaps you can explain and flesh it out a bit more.  As, looking at your posts in this thread, you haven't condemned any violence and just posted something about 2 hostages and the "battle for Rafah".

If two of us thought similar things, about your post, it's likely that it gives that impression to others too.


For me, this is about the terrible deaths of innocents and everything else comes after that.  Stopping those deaths is what we should be focusing on now.  I don't know about you but, I don't like to see children being displaced and killed.

Ok, below are my words

"Great news, 2 hostages have been freed."
"Hopefully the battle for Rafah could see the hostages freed, an end to Hamas is Gaza and an end to this awful war."

First bit, hostages being freed, how's that not good news?

Second bit, the Battle of Rafah has started, that's self evident.

I've stated im hoping that this sees:

1. the hostages freed
2. the end of Hamas in Gaza
3. An end to this awful war

Specifically which part of the above do you have a problem with?

[Jiminy Cricket]

This is the post that YOU agreed with

You highlighted the wrong bit.

Why does this thread exist and yet posts about voting in the POTUS election were wiped out? So annoying being censored when posting within guidelines, taking the effort to include news links, etc.

Besides, my subsequent post (which you have ignored) made clear to what I was referring:

But it seems that posts made in good faith, within guidelines, and on-topic, are removed too. Seemingly, the members causing the problem are unaffected by the clear out; but the time and efforts of other posters who post within guidelines is wasted. And this happens regularly.

I appreciate that moderating is a pain, and probably a huge pain on the Affairs forum. But this doesn't feel very fair.

PS 'IBTL'?

[Terry de Niro]

Mass starvation is not war.
Bombing hospitals is not war.
Wiping out entire neighbourhoods is not war.

This is mass murder, and you can dress Israel's excuses for this any way you like.
Hamas were wrong to do what they did, but now Isreal has an excuse to wipe out all Palestinians whilst the rest of the world just looks on.
That was always their plan.

We are living in very sad times. Very sad.

[Red-Soldier]

Ok, below are my words

"Great news, 2 hostages have been freed."
"Hopefully the battle for Rafah could see the hostages freed, an end to Hamas is Gaza and an end to this awful war."

First bit, hostages being freed, how's that not good news?

Second bit, the Battle of Rafah has started, that's self evident.

I've stated im hoping that this sees:

1. the hostages freed
2. the end of Hamas in Gaza
3. An end to this awful war

Specifically which part of the above do you have a problem with?

Okay, fair enough.  Is it, currently, a war, though?