Author Topic: Thoughts on Shamima Begum? (Read 62136 times)

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #80 on:** February 19, 2019, 08:04:15 pm »

If she has dual then stick a fork in her and lets get back to Brexit

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #81 on:** February 19, 2019, 08:05:40 pm »

I sa w aTwitter poll from somebody who must have been a manc who asked if you would prefer Liverpool to win the league or Begum to be let back in. Begum was winning obviously. It gave me a chuckle, the tears will be so beautiful in may.

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #82 on:** February 19, 2019, 09:03:29 pm »

Quote from: vagabond on February 19, 2019, 07:32:00 pm

It is incredibly easy to groom a 15 year old. It will then typically take decades for that person to work through the trauma and admit to the brainwashing. She isn't going to have any remorse this close to the event without having a mental breakdown.

Then again, there is also one from the US who wants to return.

In a letter obtained exclusively by ABC News, she described herself as a "naive, angry and arrogant" young woman when she set out for Syria. Muthana said she thought she understood her religious beliefs and had stopped listening to her family.

"That was a big mistake," she said in the letter.

"During my years in Syria I would see and experience a way of life and the terrible effects of war which changed me. Seeing bloodshed up close changed me. Motherhood changed me. Seeing friends, children and the men I married dying changed me. Seeing how different a society could be compared to the beloved America I was born and raised into changed me," she said.

"Being where I was and seeing the ppl around me scared me because I realized I didn’t want to be a part of this. My beliefs weren’t the same as theirs. In my quiet moments, in between bombings, starvation, cold and fear I would look at my beautiful little boy and know that I didn’t belong here and neither did he. I would think sometimes of my family, my friends and the life that I knew and I realized how I didn’t appreciate or maybe even really understand how important the freedoms that we have in America are. I do now. To say that I regret my past words, any pain that I caused my family and any concerns I would cause my country would be hard for me to really express properly."

She wants to return and face justice. So it can be turned, or maybe she wasn't as brainwashed.

wellred82 · « **Reply #83 on:** February 19, 2019, 09:19:55 pm »

She's a British citizen so she should be allowed back in. Once in though I think she should be arrested and made to face whatever questioning/justice she will get for running off to join a terrorist organisation. We need to consider the possibility she could also be coming to the UK with intentions of committing acts of terror here.

I think the baby should be taken off her and placed into social care. Clearly her family are not capable of raising a child so it wouldn't be fair to subject the baby to potentially more grooming.

Edit: just read she is being stripped of her Uk citizenship. Right decision imo. The home office needed to set an example. She's basically only coming back her as ISIS are finished and she's probably bored of living in a shithole.

west_london_red · « **Reply #84 on:** February 19, 2019, 09:22:09 pm »

“I actually do support some British values and I am willing to go back to the UK and settle back again and rehabilitate and that stuff,"

It sounds to me like she thinks she’s almost doing us a favour if she came back.

wellred82 · « **Reply #85 on:** February 19, 2019, 09:33:52 pm »

Quote from: west_london_red on February 19, 2019, 09:22:09 pm

“I actually do support some British values and I am willing to go back to the UK and settle back again and rehabilitate and that stuff,"

It sounds to me like she thinks she’s almost doing us a favour if she came back.

She doesn't seem remorseful at all for going off to join them in the 1st place, or what they stand for. She's a major risk to the public imo and stripping her of her citizenship is the right move. It also sets an example to others who think they can bugger off then waltz back in.

Slick_Beef · « **Reply #86 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:03:29 pm »

There is a lot of injustice in the world, and a lot of causes worth supporting. This doesn't feel like one of them.

sminp · « **Reply #87 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:08:23 pm »

Quote from: Slick_Beef on February 19, 2019, 10:03:29 pm

There is a lot of injustice in the world, and a lot of causes worth supporting. This doesn't feel like one of them.

Exactly. This situation is of her own making and I won't be shedding a tear for her. She hasn't even shown any remorse.

Solomon Grundy · « **Reply #88 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:15:31 pm »

A young girl who was caught up in the Manchester terror attack had this to say :

https://twitter.com/millierobsonx/status/1097213938918477827

Quote

millie ☾
‏ @millierobsonx

that girl was 15 when she left the UK to join isis. when i was 15, i was almost killed by a terrorist who associated with isis. tell her to piss off man i don’t even get why it’s up for debate.

jason67 · « **Reply #89 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:15:56 pm »

Quote from: vagabond on February 19, 2019, 07:37:16 pm

God forbid you ever have a 15 year old on the internet then.

I would bet that there are quite a few 15 year olds using the internet, no? I'm not sure you can use that excuse to defend someone in this situation.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #90 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:23:32 pm »

Quote from: Solomon Grundy on February 19, 2019, 10:15:31 pm

A young girl who was caught up in the Manchester terror attack had this to say :

https://twitter.com/millierobsonx/status/1097213938918477827

I can understand her anger.

OneTouchFooty · « **Reply #91 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:49:56 pm »

Maybe it’s me but it seems that lots of the public are missing the bigger picture because they are emotionally incontinent. I personally would rather not have her back but she’s a British citizen and if we revoke her citizenship we are literally giving the green light to the rest of the world that you can shirk responsibility and refuse to take back your own citizens who commit criminal acts abroad. The same people that are cheering this on will be up in arms when a foreign country refuses to take back their own and revokes their citizenship and we are unable to deport them. Very short sighted in my view and will have repercussions down the line.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #92 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:55:15 pm »

Quote from: OneTouchFooty on February 19, 2019, 10:49:56 pm

Maybe it’s me but it seems that lots of the public are missing the bigger picture because they are emotionally incontinent, I personally would rather not have her back but she’s a British citizen and if we revoke her citizenship we are literally giving the green light to the rest of the world that you can shirk responsibility and refuse to take back your own citizens who commit criminal acts abroad. The same people that are cheering this on will be up in arms when a foreign country refuses to take back their own and revokes their citizenship and we are unable to deport them. Very short sighted in my view and will have repercussions down the line.

A very good point that

Cruiser · « **Reply #93 on:** February 19, 2019, 10:59:41 pm »

Make no mistake if ISIS were still in power she'd have no intention of returning to the UK. She would gladly continue supporting their cause by providing a home and a warm bed for the terrorist she is married to and would happily see every non-muslim in the UK beheaded. Now that those thugs' Caliphate and her dream has been reduced to rubble she only wants to return for the cushy lifestyle in the UK.

This country needs to stand firm against this threat.

vagabond · « **Reply #94 on:** February 19, 2019, 11:17:41 pm »

Quote from: jason67 on February 19, 2019, 10:15:56 pm

I would bet that there are quite a few 15 year olds using the internet, no? I'm not sure you can use that excuse to defend someone in this situation.

It's not an excuse. Of course millions of kids use the internet. And a lot of them do a lot of stupid things because of the influence of the online world. Some of them got into tide pods. She got unlucky and was brainwashed by a very well put together propaganda machine.

OneTouchFooty · « **Reply #95 on:** February 19, 2019, 11:33:41 pm »

Quote from: Cruiser on February 19, 2019, 10:59:41 pm

Make no mistake if ISIS were still in power she'd have no intention of returning to the UK. She would gladly continue supporting their cause by providing a home and a warm bed for the terrorist she is married to and would happily see every non-muslim in the UK beheaded. Now that those thugs' Caliphate and her dream has been reduced to rubble she only wants to return for the cushy lifestyle in the UK.

This country needs to stand firm against this threat.

Well arrest her on arrival, put her on trial and convict her of terrorism offences.

I don’t want to be cynical but it has the feel of a govt again looking for a distraction from Brexit and trying to secure a ‘win’, a Sajid Javid fake strongman routine. We’ve jailed actual jihadi fighters before who joined ISIS without much fanfare, so seems odd we’d kick such a fuss up for a non-combatant who joined as a 15 year old.

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #96 on:** February 19, 2019, 11:37:23 pm »

But what offenses has she commited?

vagabond · « **Reply #97 on:** February 19, 2019, 11:41:38 pm »

Quote from: Brian Blessed on February 19, 2019, 09:03:29 pm

So it can be turned, or maybe she wasn't as brainwashed.

Yes, this is very true. But there are no rules on how quickly it happens or even if it happens at all. Somebody likened her to a Manson girl, which may be an apt comparison.

AndyMuller · « **Reply #98 on:** February 19, 2019, 11:45:49 pm »

Quote from: Brian Blessed on February 19, 2019, 11:37:23 pm

But what offenses has she commited?

Isn’t joining a terrorist group an offence in itself?

Zeb · « **Reply #99 on:** February 20, 2019, 12:11:29 am »

Think it's for us to deal with. This thing of removing citizenship doesn't sit right with me. Too open to abuse and just shunting things onto another country when we'd certainly not appreciate being on the other end of such decisions by other countries. Let her go through our justice system, if that's appropriate or called for, and whatever else would be legally justified and not something done so Tory Home Secretaries can prance about for the Mail before launching leadership bids.

classycarra · « **Reply #100 on:** February 20, 2019, 12:45:37 am »

Quote from: Zeb on February 20, 2019, 12:11:29 am

Think it's for us to deal with. This thing of removing citizenship doesn't sit right with me. Too open to abuse and just shunting things onto another country when we'd certainly not appreciate being on the other end of such decisions by other countries. Let her go through our justice system, if that's appropriate or called for, and whatever else would be legally justified and not something done so Tory Home Secretaries can prance about for the Mail before launching leadership bids.

Yep, it sends a horrendous message from the UK government. It says to the world we'd rather wash our hands of any responsibility for our citizens, and we'd rather leave her to Bangladeshi authorities than try to handle a complex situation ourselves (perhaps our government feel they're better equipped than we are?)

If we believe her to be a threat to Britain/the West, then we should be doing something about it instead of inflicting that perceived rest threat on our neighbours. Saying to the world 'we're scared of her and a bit clueless, will you handle her for us please?'

Yet another thing to add to the list of why us Brits should be ashamed of their government's portrayal of the UK to the rest of the world. We're deservedly not considered reliable allies at the moment, and are a general laughing stock

andy07 · « **Reply #101 on:** February 20, 2019, 12:51:23 am »

Would make a good politician with the shite she spouts.

Lush is the best medicine... · « **Reply #102 on:** February 20, 2019, 01:12:23 am »

Quote from: andy07 on February 20, 2019, 12:51:23 am

Would make a good politician with the shite she spouts.

would probably do a better job than the saj

Golden_Child · « **Reply #103 on:** February 20, 2019, 01:43:53 am »

Wanted her to come back, serve time and get shanked.

Horrendous but the easiest solution. Glad that the tit Javid has revoked her citizenship. Could never be trusted to get rid of their beliefs without wondering if it could happen again.

I'm sorry to say but some people are just bad for the world. Anti liberal as it may seem, and I'm liberal as fuck, but occasionally you have to make a horrible choice for the greater good.

She can fuck off

Wabaloolah · « **Reply #104 on:** February 20, 2019, 01:47:58 am »

It's a No from me

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #105 on:** February 20, 2019, 02:22:44 am »

Quote from: AndyMuller on February 19, 2019, 11:45:49 pm

Isn’t joining a terrorist group an offence in itself?

Honestly, I have no idea.

Zeb · « **Reply #106 on:** February 20, 2019, 07:22:19 am »

Quote from: Classycara on February 20, 2019, 12:45:37 am

Yep, it sends a horrendous message from the UK government. It says to the world we'd rather wash our hands of any responsibility for our citizens, and we'd rather leave her to Bangladeshi authorities than try to handle a complex situation ourselves (perhaps our government feel they're better equipped than we are?)

If we believe her to be a threat to Britain/the West, then we should be doing something about it instead of inflicting that perceived rest threat on our neighbours. Saying to the world 'we're scared of her and a bit clueless, will you handle her for us please?'

Yet another thing to add to the list of why us Brits should be ashamed of their government's portrayal of the UK to the rest of the world. We're deservedly not considered reliable allies at the moment, and are a general laughing stock

Definitely. There needs to be pragmatism here rather than the political spectacle Javid is putting on.

----

Javid is doing exactly as May used to do it. Remove citizenship, go to court, court points out that the Home Secretary can't remove citizenship for legal reasons, blame the court and/or 'foreign laws' for preventing it and take victory lap for appearing 'tough'. All the better if you can paint everyone who pointed out the problems with what is being done as being 'soft' on terrorists or whatever.

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #107 on:** February 20, 2019, 07:24:38 am »

From Digitalspy Forum
----------------------

The one precedent we have.

http://siac.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk/Documents/outcomes/documents/G3 v SSHD 15.12.17.pdf

17 year old girl - ISIS bride (16 when she was arrested and held in Turkey). Supposedly Bangladeshi by descent.

Result - government acted illegally in attempting to strip her of British citizenship.

Basically it's all about the rules of citizenship by descent and while there's loads of legal jargon it comes down to this. The government of Bangladesh is under no obligation whatsoever under its 1951 nationality act to recognise anyone as a citizen by descent. The citizenship must be applied for and the government is within its rights to refuse it.

"Mr Ghani [representing the UK government] has fundamentally misunderstood the significance of the various sets of Rules governing what is needed in order to demonstrate citizenship of Bangladesh. The Rules upon which he relies are not substantive Bangladesh nationality law. They are, rather, the means by which a person ho claims to be entitled to citizenship at birth, by descent, persuades the Bangladesh Government that she is such a citizen."

... "Standing back and reviewing the evidence as a totality, we find that it is more likely than not that G3 does not fall within the scope of the 2008 Instruction, as operated by the Bangladesh authorities. Accordingly, if deprived of her British citizenship, G3 would be stateless."

Javid knows he'll lose.

Red Viper · « **Reply #108 on:** February 20, 2019, 07:52:19 am »

Way I see it is she's a British Citizen so she should be allowed back, then she should be arrested upon landing and charged.

There must be some crime she has committed that she can be charged with if there isn't then by that logic there's no justification for revoking her citizenship is there?

Lush is the best medicine... · « **Reply #109 on:** February 20, 2019, 07:55:27 am »

Quote from: Zeb on February 20, 2019, 07:22:19 am

Definitely. There needs to be pragmatism here rather than the political spectacle Javid is putting on.

----

Javid is doing exactly as May used to do it. Remove citizenship, go to court, court points out that the Home Secretary can't remove citizenship for legal reasons, blame the court and/or 'foreign laws' for preventing it and take victory lap for appearing 'tough'. All the better if you can paint everyone who pointed out the problems with what is being done as being 'soft' on terrorists or whatever.

quite funny how he thinks he’s acting tough and will help him become PM when the reality is he looks like a total tit who’s doing more harm than good, even amongst Tory members

reddebs · « **Reply #110 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:19:25 am »

Surely if she wanted to come back she would just have returned to the UK like so many others?

Why a refugee camp if shes a British citizen?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Zeb · « **Reply #111 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:23:23 am »

Quote from: Mines sent on February 20, 2019, 07:52:19 am

Way I see it is she's a British Citizen so she should be allowed back, then she should be arrested upon landing and charged.

There must be some crime she has committed that she can be charged with if there isn't then by that logic there's no justification for revoking her citizenship is there?

That's what's meant to happen, according to Javid's own counter-terrorism strategy.

p.50 here (pdf)

The North Bank · « **Reply #112 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:29:37 am »

I think she should be let back in, and I look forward to seeing her on I'm a celebrity.

Qston · « **Reply #113 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:37:34 am »

She was brainwashed from before the age of 15. The police did nothing to help her and had sent a letter to her to say they wanted to speak to her. It was found in her school bag. Her parents knew absolutely nothing about what was going on. The police said nothing to the parents who have said they would have taken her passport from her and tried to help if they had known.

This really isn`t as simple as "she shouldn`t be allowed back in". She is a british citizen who left at 15 after probably being effectively groomed from a younger age. She was married to a man double her age within days of arriving in ISIS territory. This doesn`t mean I condone a single thing she has said, that I don`t hate everything that she and ISIS stand for or am not totally sickened by everything they do. However, it really isn`t as simple as the likes of the Daily Mail make out.

No666 · « **Reply #114 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:40:18 am »

Quote from: reddebs on February 20, 2019, 08:19:25 am

Surely if she wanted to come back she would just have returned to the UK like so many others?

Why a refugee camp if shes a British citizen?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

She got as far as the camp and hasn't got the means to get further, I assume. In normal cases - say if you're mugged in Thailand - the British consulate will liaise, provide a missing passport and/or the flight home, the cost of which you are obliged to reimburse later. (That's as I remember it from that programme on the foreign office). The point of that 'I'm not risking British lives to go and get her' quote was that she had to try to do all this on her own.

rob1966 · « **Reply #115 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:44:27 am »

Quote from: WhereAngelsPlay on February 19, 2019, 07:23:08 pm

So you are happy for us to make a British born UK citizen stateless ?

People are losing their fucking minds.

If I travelled to Syria to join a murderous terrorist group who encourage people to blow up children in suicide bombs, drive trucks into crowds and randomly stab people, then I wouldn't have any rights to complain if I wasn't allowed back into the UK and had my citizenship stripped.

Anyway, she has a state, it is Islamic State and she can fuck off and live with them.

BarryCrocker · « **Reply #116 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:54:46 am »

Quote from: AndyMuller on February 19, 2019, 11:45:49 pm

Isn’t joining a terrorist group an offence in itself?

Seriously? There's been tonnes of people on both side of the political divide in both Northern Island & Ireland who've been locked up for being members of organisation deemed to be terrorists.

AndyMuller · « **Reply #117 on:** February 20, 2019, 08:56:34 am »

Quote from: BarryCrocker on February 20, 2019, 08:54:46 am

Seriously? There's been tonnes of people on both side of the political divide in both Northern Island & Ireland who've been locked up for being members of organisation deemed to be terrorists.

I know I said it full well knowing the answer.

It’s still fuck her and anyone affiliated with her.

"21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan! · « **Reply #118 on:** February 20, 2019, 09:04:22 am »

She should be let in and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. She is absolutely a threat and needs to be locked away for a long time.

She has shown very little remorse or regret for her actions and actually had the gall to claim she was a 'stronger' person because of her experience. She was enjoying life under ISIS, the only reason she wants to come back is because they are on the verge of defeat.

She actually stated her indifference to beheadings and summary executions by her brethren in an interview.

She is 19 now and far from a child. She had years to understand the implications of joining ISIS and she did nothing. Only now when ISIS is almost done, she wants to conveniently go back. She ahs to take responsibility for her actions.

An example needs to be set. If you join an 'organisation' like ISIS, the only outcome is a long prison sentence.

OneTouchFooty · « **Reply #119 on:** February 20, 2019, 09:16:06 am »

Quote from: rob1966 on February 20, 2019, 08:44:27 am

If I travelled to Syria to join a murderous terrorist group who encourage people to blow up children in suicide bombs, drive trucks into crowds and randomly stab people, then I wouldn't have any rights to complain if I wasn't allowed back into the UK and had my citizenship stripped.

Anyway, she has a state, it is Islamic State and she can fuck off and live with them.

Islamic state doesn’t exist as nation, they barely hold territory anymore, why do the Syrian people have to shoulder the burden of a British citizen?

Remember this next time a foreign born terrorist, rapist, murderer is caught in the UK and their home country tells us to fuck off, unilaterally revokes their citizenship and the Daily Mail is kicking at “soft touch” Britain.

I don’t know if it’s British/Western exceptionalism but it seems the attitude is.. “well it’s the Middle East, they’re all at it, so she belongs there” missing the point that they don’t want murderous zealots or dangerous invididuals either and it isn’t just a dumping ground to make difficult problems go away.

See also her apparent dual citizenship: “send her to Bangladesh, they can have her” like these countries are beneath us and deserve horrible c*nts thrust on them.