Author Topic: Arsenal: Top of the divers league  (Read 378502 times)

Offline coolbyrne

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7520 on: April 18, 2024, 01:41:34 am »
You think Liverpool under Amorim can finish above Arsenal next season? I would be surprised if that happened.

Never said Liverpool would. I'm saying, a different CV is required for a team that needs to sustain and rebuild than it is for a team looking to get to that next level. Trying to make this a debate about why Liverpool didn't get the manager to replace Klopp that people think Arsenal should get to replace Arteta is coming from the wrong starting point. Liverpool doesn't need the same manager that Arsenal do. Unless you think Liverpool and Arsenal are interchangeable?
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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7521 on: April 18, 2024, 01:46:26 am »
Arteta: “Really gutted dressing room. We are disappointed. I cannot find the right words to leave them”.

Really? You don’t know what to say? Can’t see Klopp ever finding himself in that situation. Arsenal still have a league title still to fight for and Legohead can’t find anything to say his team to motivate them. Terrible management.

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Offline newterp

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7522 on: April 18, 2024, 02:06:23 am »
Arteta: “Really gutted dressing room. We are disappointed. I cannot find the right words to leave them”.

Really? You don’t know what to say? Can’t see Klopp ever finding himself in that situation. Arsenal still have a league title still to fight for and Legohead can’t find anything to say his team to motivate them. Terrible management.



That's because he used up all his words in one of the numerous mid game huddles during the "injury" breaks.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7523 on: April 18, 2024, 02:23:17 am »
Well well , just woke up to see the city result. Cheered me up a bit.

We didnt deserve to win over the 2 legs bayern were better. We played some good stuff and had our moments but not enough cutting edge upfront. Was nice to be back at the big stage, but work to do for next season.

Need to get back to winning ways Saturday or season over.

Bayern Dortmund CL final at Wembley, seen that one before.

Offline Tokyoite

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7524 on: April 18, 2024, 02:26:38 am »
Does that every single time. Its like he thinks he can feign an injury and people will think "oh look at him, that's the reason he was shit and a diving little tube"
That's precisely why he does it imo. Not like the media will ever criticise him but even more reason for them not to say anything now, because he is allegedly not fit  ;)

Offline BigBrainArteta

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7525 on: April 18, 2024, 02:45:46 am »
Never said Liverpool would. I'm saying, a different CV is required for a team that needs to sustain and rebuild than it is for a team looking to get to that next level. Trying to make this a debate about why Liverpool didn't get the manager to replace Klopp that people think Arsenal should get to replace Arteta is coming from the wrong starting point. Liverpool doesn't need the same manager that Arsenal do. Unless you think Liverpool and Arsenal are interchangeable?

Is this an admission you dont expect to compete next year under Amorim? As your saying Arteta should be replaced so Arsenal can go to 'the next level'. Yet your ok with Amorim - you not expecting to go to the 'next level' under Amorim. Sure you could say you have been there with Klopp, but thats the past. Is it not the intention of Liverpool to sustain results under the new manager and not 'drift way' like you did in the 1990's, like we did for 7 years out the CL, like Chelsea and Man United now.  It really sounds like you've resigned yourself to not expecting to compete for the league next year & erhaps expect Liverpool to settle into a top 4 battle. You tell me.

And yes, Arsenal and Liverpool are interchangeable in this moment. We are literally level on points. However where we differ, is you are losing your manager, the possibility of a Salah exit this summer is very real, and VVD will turn 33 in July. Whereas we will not lose our manager, and we dont have concern around player exists that could destabilize the club, we dont have any key players turning 33. Thats why I asked if you think Liverpool would finish above Arsenal next year. As if Arteta is such a soft touch, why shouldnt Liverpool finish above Arsenal?


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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7526 on: April 18, 2024, 04:38:11 am »
Is this an admission you dont expect to compete next year under Amorim? As your saying Arteta should be replaced so Arsenal can go to 'the next level'. Yet your ok with Amorim - you not expecting to go to the 'next level' under Amorim. Sure you could say you have been there with Klopp, but thats the past. Is it not the intention of Liverpool to sustain results under the new manager and not 'drift way' like you did in the 1990's, like we did for 7 years out the CL, like Chelsea and Man United now.  It really sounds like you've resigned yourself to not expecting to compete for the league next year & erhaps expect Liverpool to settle into a top 4 battle. You tell me.

And yes, Arsenal and Liverpool are interchangeable in this moment. We are literally level on points. However where we differ, is you are losing your manager, the possibility of a Salah exit this summer is very real, and VVD will turn 33 in July. Whereas we will not lose our manager, and we dont have concern around player exists that could destabilize the club, we dont have any key players turning 33. Thats why I asked if you think Liverpool would finish above Arsenal next year. As if Arteta is such a soft touch, why shouldnt Liverpool finish above Arsenal?

Of the two teams only Liverpool remain in a meaningful European competition so Liverpool shades it somewhat.

Liverpool exists to win trophies. Whoever the new manager is - I accept it is probably not Amorim - this will be impressed on them or they will know it from their previous associations with the club. So that is the expectation. They will also be following a league/carabao/europa treble (challenging) campaign.

Arsenal’s expectations on the other hand are (anecdotally) less ambitious. I’ve told TNB the evolution has been wonderful to see and I stand by it, it just be brilliant. But Arsenal for me just doesn’t have the global expectation to win things that characterises LFC. In many ways, this is a both a benefit and a curse.
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

Oh, and we should have an in's and out's topic, stickied.

Offline BigBrainArteta

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7527 on: April 18, 2024, 04:55:22 am »
Of the two teams only Liverpool remain in a meaningful European competition so Liverpool shades it somewhat.

Liverpool exists to win trophies. Whoever the new manager is - I accept it is probably not Amorim - this will be impressed on them or they will know it from their previous associations with the club. So that is the expectation. They will also be following a league/carabao/europa treble (challenging) campaign.

Arsenal’s expectations on the other hand are (anecdotally) less ambitious. I’ve told TNB the evolution has been wonderful to see and I stand by it, it just be brilliant. But Arsenal for me just doesn’t have the global expectation to win things that characterises LFC. In many ways, this is a both a benefit and a curse.

So Amorim will face Real Madrid type pressure when he arrives? I think not. I think he will be shown a lot of latitude.

Sacking a manager is not a sign of ambition. Sacking a manager is a strategic decision.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7528 on: April 18, 2024, 05:24:42 am »
I know he's still young, but I don't think Saka is as good as made out.

Offline ScottishGoon

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7529 on: April 18, 2024, 05:58:45 am »
Complete nonsense. They are where they are because of Arteta. And sure, spending a lot of money has helped, but there's plenty of other teams who do that as well without the same results.

I think they are punching well above their weight based on the quality of their team. How many players would you take from them to start for us, for example? I'm saying three or four max.

Being totally honest about the team, this is where I see us. When you get to this level, you tend to need to be a well coached team, but where are our match winners, our difference makers at the top end of the pitch. I’m not sure we are there yet. Teams we are up against have players like Mbappe, Kane, Salah, Vinicius, Haaland. We have Jesus and Havertz. Sometimes it feels like going into a gun fight with a knife. Saka and Martinelli are good, maybe very good, but looking at it without rose tinted glasses, they aren’t elite yet, certainly not in current form. A not fully fit Sane was the difference maker both legs.

We aren’t a team without flaws, we have an issue at left back, we need a long terms Rice partner, and I’m not convinced by the goalkeeper. But how we deal with that top end of the pitch will probably be the difference between turning us from nearly men, into a team that can actually get over the line in these games, and might well end up being what defines Artetas Arsenal.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 06:06:28 am by ScottishGoon »

Offline zero zero

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7530 on: April 18, 2024, 06:30:39 am »
This 'experienced manager' you speak of, that we need to hire, why didn't you hire him. Why did you hire a up and coming rookie? Why would we be better off with a more experienced manager, but not Liverpool?
If he joins us, Amorim will have won two league titles. He's hardly a "rookie".

Offline PaulF

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7531 on: April 18, 2024, 06:34:23 am »
Is it only me seeing posters point out that we are the only xxx team still in Europe as a little optimistic?
I mean I know coming back from 3-0 down given a whole 90 mins is a gimme for us, but really, we are still only in the competition as our fixture is 24 hours later.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7532 on: April 18, 2024, 07:07:16 am »
I know he's still young, but I don't think Saka is as good as made out.

He very good but he's been played into the ground.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7533 on: April 18, 2024, 07:17:51 am »
He very good but he's been played into the ground.

Yeah, poor guy can barely stand up.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7534 on: April 18, 2024, 07:18:50 am »
Is it only me seeing posters point out that we are the only xxx team still in Europe as a little optimistic?
I mean I know coming back from 3-0 down given a whole 90 mins is a gimme for us, but really, we are still only in the competition as our fixture is 24 hours later.
Have you considered it might be a joke?

Offline PaulF

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7535 on: April 18, 2024, 07:30:19 am »
Have you considered it might be a joke?

😂
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7536 on: April 18, 2024, 07:35:29 am »
They've been massively lucky with lack of injuries this season and it looks like they still aren't winning anything. That bottling mentality remains
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7537 on: April 18, 2024, 07:36:34 am »
Is it only me seeing posters point out that we are the only xxx team still in Europe as a little optimistic?
I mean I know coming back from 3-0 down given a whole 90 mins is a gimme for us, but really, we are still only in the competition as our fixture is 24 hours later.
You are overthinking it Paul. Just having some fun (for 24 hours maybe). 😁.
Still - you never know!!

Offline BigBrainArteta

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7538 on: April 18, 2024, 08:47:41 am »
If he joins us, Amorim will have won two league titles. He's hardly a "rookie".

Amorim is 39 years old. And his two Portuguese leagues will help him as much as Ten Hags two Dutch league titles have helped him.

Amorim is a rookie manager still cutting his teeth, and his experience in Portugal will count for only a little if indeed he does find himself as Liverpool boss next year.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7539 on: April 18, 2024, 08:50:04 am »
You think Liverpool under Amorim can finish above Arsenal next season? I would be surprised if that happened.

This is the problem with so many Arsenal fans and with the club generally. They are constantly surprised that they are not as good as they think they are and that others are better than they appear to them. They have a false sense of their own stature and their own prestige. 
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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7540 on: April 18, 2024, 08:50:22 am »
Is this an admission you dont expect to compete next year under Amorim? As your saying Arteta should be replaced so Arsenal can go to 'the next level'. Yet your ok with Amorim - you not expecting to go to the 'next level' under Amorim. Sure you could say you have been there with Klopp, but thats the past. Is it not the intention of Liverpool to sustain results under the new manager and not 'drift way' like you did in the 1990's, like we did for 7 years out the CL, like Chelsea and Man United now.  It really sounds like you've resigned yourself to not expecting to compete for the league next year & erhaps expect Liverpool to settle into a top 4 battle. You tell me.

And yes, Arsenal and Liverpool are interchangeable in this moment. We are literally level on points. However where we differ, is you are losing your manager, the possibility of a Salah exit this summer is very real, and VVD will turn 33 in July. Whereas we will not lose our manager, and we dont have concern around player exists that could destabilize the club, we dont have any key players turning 33. Thats why I asked if you think Liverpool would finish above Arsenal next year. As if Arteta is such a soft touch, why shouldnt Liverpool finish above Arsenal?

The arrogance is unreal. You've had two semi-decent seasons!

As we can recently attest too, going over and over again, particularly against this Man City team, is absolutely draining and probably unsustainable for any organically built club. Just because you're going to have a similar squad and the same manager next season, you cannot just expect to be competing at the same level; it can very, very easily all fall apart. Your players have given absolutely everything for two seasons now all to end up without a single trophy - I wouldn't be so sure that they will be able to pick themselves up mentally to go again for a third time. 
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Offline deano2727

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7541 on: April 18, 2024, 08:50:24 am »
Amorim is 39 years old. And his two Portuguese leagues will help him as much as Ten Hags two Dutch league titles have helped him.

Amorim is a rookie manager still cutting his teeth, and his experience in Portugal will count for only a little if indeed he does find himself as Liverpool boss next year.

He will have a stronger foundation than Arteta did for taking a major position (not to mention more titles  ;D ).

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7542 on: April 18, 2024, 08:52:14 am »
Karma. My gooner besties are getting rinsed.

As I said to them, dont count your chickens until the season ends. But no, the two of them keep trolling me and being toxic twats. Now, the worm has turned. Muahahah. Gooners, they really are nobs.
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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7543 on: April 18, 2024, 08:57:03 am »
Karma. My gooner besties are getting rinsed.

As I said to them, dont count your chickens until the season ends. But no, the two of them keep trolling me and being toxic twats. Now, the worm has turned. Muahahah. Gooners, they really are nobs.
;D

Oh boy, I can really relate to this

Offline zero zero

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7544 on: April 18, 2024, 09:08:01 am »
Amorim is 39 years old. And his two Portuguese leagues will help him as much as Ten Hags two Dutch league titles have helped him.
Or Klopp's two German leagues helped him. Or Rafa's two Spanish leagues helped him? Who knows really? Except you

Quote
Amorim is a rookie manager still cutting his teeth, and his experience in Portugal will count for only a little if indeed he does find himself as Liverpool boss next year.
No, that would be Arteta in his first managerial job. Funny how when it comes to your man, getting bounced out the CL by the first serious team he's up against will prove to be a valuable learning experience (all part of the process), but when it comes to our potential manager the experience of actually winning the league will count for little.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7545 on: April 18, 2024, 09:09:27 am »
The arrogance is unreal. You've had two semi-decent seasons!

As we can recently attest too, going over and over again, particularly against this Man City team, is absolutely draining and probably unsustainable for any organically built club. Just because you're going to have a similar squad and the same manager next season, you cannot just expect to be competing at the same level; it can very, very easily all fall apart. Your players have given absolutely everything for two seasons now all to end up without a single trophy - I wouldn't be so sure that they will be able to pick themselves up mentally to go again for a third time.

I think we ll challenge again, but the cheats always seem to get over the line in the end, at least they got fucked off last night so theres that.

Offline Lisan Al Gaib

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7546 on: April 18, 2024, 09:11:40 am »
Did Saka limp off last night again?

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7547 on: April 18, 2024, 09:24:41 am »
I think we ll challenge again, but the cheats always seem to get over the line in the end, at least they got fucked off last night so theres that.

The sentence contains its own refutation. Here, at Liverpool, we also know that they don't always get over the line.

It's a problem for all of us having to compete against a team like that Man City that plays by different financial rules. But only Arsenal have convinced themselves there's nothing you can do on the pitch to beat them. Your defeatism is amazing to me.
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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7548 on: April 18, 2024, 09:29:20 am »
It’s their station.
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7549 on: April 18, 2024, 09:31:56 am »
The sentence contains its own refutation. Here, at Liverpool, we also know that they don't always get over the line.

It's a problem for all of us having to compete against a team like that Man City that plays by different financial rules. But only Arsenal have convinced themselves there's nothing you can do on the pitch to beat them. Your defeatism is amazing to me.

Yep. Maybe if they actually tried in their recent game with City, it would still be in their hands.
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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7550 on: April 18, 2024, 09:38:12 am »
The sentence contains its own refutation. Here, at Liverpool, we also know that they don't always get over the line.

It's a problem for all of us having to compete against a team like that Man City that plays by different financial rules. But only Arsenal have convinced themselves there's nothing you can do on the pitch to beat them. Your defeatism is amazing to me.

Well they’re leading the way to win (cheat their way to) 4 league titles in a row, which has never been done before.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 09:40:05 am by The North Bank »

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7551 on: April 18, 2024, 09:38:43 am »
Yep. Maybe if they actually tried in their recent game with City, it would still be in their hands.

We’re the only team to get 4 points off them this season

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7552 on: April 18, 2024, 09:40:08 am »
I assume Arsenal crashed out of the CL to focus on the league?
See also, league cup, Fa cup.
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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7553 on: April 18, 2024, 09:47:06 am »
Klopp is leaving and your replacing with a 39 year old Amorim. With the expectation he builds a new Liverpool in the subsequent years when Salah and VVD who will be phased out due them both being in the twilight of their careers. It could be a rough couple of years.

You do not sack a manager who has taken your team to banter era to challenging for the title. You do not sack a manager losing 3-2 on aggregate to Bayern Munich. If you sack a manager under those circumstances, its done on pure emotion rather than rational. Which ironically is the same thing your speaking out against.

This 'experienced manager' you speak of, that we need to hire, why didn't you hire him. Why did you hire a up and coming rookie? Why would we be better off with a more experienced manager, but not Liverpool?

Dont get too excited, I didn't say its something I'd do I just wonder if the failings of the last two seasons might start convincing the owners. There's certainly a lot of the online fanbase who have turned or are close to turning. Its the best team you've had since the Invincibles, two decades, and you'll have nothing to show for it again. Last season was an unbelievable bottle job, regardless of the team you were up against (no North Bank, not celebrating Abu Dhabi ;)). And now this season you've lost against the poorest Bayern side in recent memory.

Arteta has been there for five years though, and only has a couple of FA Cups to show for it. He's spent an incredible amount of money, you just wonder at what point that becomes a poor return for the owners.

And I wouldnt start dissing Amorim! Absolutely schooled Arteta little more than a year ago.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 09:48:50 am by Redley »

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7554 on: April 18, 2024, 09:48:53 am »
TNB, BBA, B500, Lego Dick, Dekkers,  your boys took one hell of a beating last night.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7555 on: April 18, 2024, 09:51:38 am »
Well they’re leading the way to win (cheat their way to) 4 league titles in a row, which has never been done before.

Exactly. The season's not over yet and you've thrown in the towel (like you did last time).
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Offline deano2727

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7556 on: April 18, 2024, 09:59:15 am »
I can see them dropping more points at the weekend. Unfortunately, I wouldn't bet against us going and doing the same.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7557 on: April 18, 2024, 10:01:33 am »
;D

Oh boy, I can really relate to this


Got a final whatsapp from them at 7:45pm. " You watching the game tonight? Oh, course not youre not in CL are you lolol"

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Offline Redley

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7558 on: April 18, 2024, 10:07:32 am »
Did Saka limp off last night again?

He did :D

He needs someone to take him to one side and have a serious talk. He's a really good player but the influence of Arteta is really impacting not just his reputation, but actual performances. Both legs of the quarter final he's cost his team because he chose to dive. If he'd actually tried to score in the first leg instead of the embarrassing attempt to fake contact, and hadn't dived last night when his team was defending, you're looking at a two goal swing and Arsenal winning 3-2 and a semi-final against a not great Real side, and a potential final against either Dortmund or a poor PSG side.

Its those small decisions in the moment that can really cost you and we've seen it with Saka unfortunately for Arsenal.

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Re: Arsenal: Top of the divers league
« Reply #7559 on: April 18, 2024, 10:10:00 am »
Did Saka limp off last night again?
Why wouldn’t he?