Author Topic: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?  (Read 23855 times)

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2012, 01:38:37 pm »
Never understood RTK just a load of people saying we are better than you this is how you should act.

The more I get told to do something the less likely I am to do it.

I almost got myself a wanker hat to wear in the Kop once just because they said we shouldn't.

That is the point, they never said you should or you shouldn't.  The problem is that the message of RTK was too difficult for our modern fanbase to understand.  An attitude not rules?  How the fuck does that work?

It descended into OOT baiting when it was NEVER that.  Or the Adistasi trabs police.  Fucking laughable.

I think the original drivers of RTK probably dropped the idea in despair and shame.
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Offline tjtaylor182

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2012, 01:45:38 pm »
I don't understand how anyone can bare to sit down in the kop. I can't get my legs in. The 305 block as it is now doesn't work really. The only way it would would be if it was moved further down.

Offline Channo

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2012, 02:24:00 pm »
I find it amusing that we can bring down businessmen, remove managers, organise brilliant campaigns, but we can't get a group of folk together who want to sing.

IMHO this debate gets hijacked by the debate of standing over not standing. I agree they aren't mutually exclusive, but if a group can be put together to sing, the atmosphere will follow and then standing is inevitable.

A good few years ago (during the Houllier years) I pretty much gave up going to anfield and just went to aways - the atmosphere was always better. I always wondered why that same group of away followers, who sung for 90 minutes, couldn't just be put together at Anfield.

Surely something as simple as putting a check box on membership applications: "Singing section" would be worth a try? Then the club could get a section right within the centre of the Kop who are singing all game. This will encourage others around. I don't have the confidence to start chants, but I'm happy being a sheep and belting them out and accompany. I bet most people are the same. If you put those groups of people together, all the other sheep will follow. The fear is, you start a chant and it dies on its arse.

The difficulty would be that some people would want to be in the singing section for the atmosphere. I'm not sure how you'd get around this.

Either way, surely the club would want the atmosphere improved - it would only help the team on the pitch.

Offline fatlip13

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2012, 02:36:52 pm »
i think the kop should be standing, bouncing, swaying and singing.

the problem is the seats and laws of this land, all seasting.
this is touchy subject and the difference now is there is a system that people believe is]safe
the club have work to do with various groups, hillsborough and government to name 2.

Offline Kopite1971

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2012, 03:01:41 pm »
1) The club can not and never will actually sanction standing in any part of the ground, apart from what the authorities call moments of high excitement, i.e a good challange, a goal, a short section of a song even.  The reason is simple, that the council licence the ground as fit and proper to hold a sporting event with a capacity crowd of 45,000 and the council have our stadium as a seated venue just like every other Premier league ground.  Occasionally they flex their muscles, normally with away fans, and we ourselves have experienced this at grounds like Sunderlands. So if our club officially authorised standing in any part of the ground, the council would take action.  The so called "standing section" on the Kop isn't that, it's actually called the "singing section" by the club itself, and although they have occasionally tried to enforce sitting down, the council authorities appear to overlook the fact that people stand on the basis that the club make announcements for people to sit etc.  As for "Big" games and European Nights, again the council choose to overlook the fact that noone sits, but if they wanted to play hardball they could close the entire Kop terrace.

2) As for the only section of the Kop singing being the 305 etc areas, well thats patently untrue, many sections of The Kop join in or initiate songs, though I do accept that many people around the Kop choose not to join in the songs.  I would accept that the most consistent singing comes from 304/305 but the reality is that the "noise" is often lost into the rafters of The Kop and doesn't project around the terrace or ground until many more people join in.  Whatever eventually happens to the stadium, new or refurb, i hope the designers give some thought to this to see how to project the Kop's noise rather than it being lost.

3) I've been standing and sitting on The Kop since 1971.  As a kid my Dad took me and sat me on a bar near the top of The Kop and unless it was a really passionate moment, just like today, it might surprise you to know that the guys stood there silently, clapping or shouting abuse to incidents on the pitch and no doubt if they'd had mobile phones/cameras back then using them too. The biggest difference was there was more than twice as many people on The Kop back then and the "singing section" was the whole of the front section of The Kop with the roof projecting the noise by accident rather than by design.

The debate on this subject always falls into i sing better than you do, you don't sing so don't come on The Kop etc right through to people who then seem to want songs sung as if conducted by some musical genius with a baton on the pitch because Scouser Tommys sung too fast, or a "new" song is written on here thats so complex it would never take off on a stadium basis.  Classic examples recently would be the old Lucas song which waffled on and on and in reality never really took off (especially when compared to his new song) and definately compared to songs for players like Maxi, Torres and Suarez which are simple, catchy and easy to pick up.  The latest being various efforts to get a song for Craig Bellamy, when the Kop are actually chanting Craig Craig Craig Craig Bellamy, which is simple, effective and no doubt heard by the player himself.

Overall football has changed massively from the days of the 70's and 80's sometimes for the better often for the worse.  The Kop remains a very passionate and noisy place, though a plae shadow of it's previous self.  Somethings that happen such as the scarf twirling when LFC score look and feel great, somethings could be done better, for example the Dutch fans definately creat an atmosphere with there rythmic swaying, while seated, and we've seen plenty of foreign teams come and create an atmosphere in a seated section which looks visually good. The only way to change the Kop is work with what we have and use creative imaginations to make it more visual and noisy than it is today.  Our fathers and grandfathers did when a silent crowd of the 50's became The Famous Kopites featured on TV in the 60's.
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Offline redjed1

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2012, 03:34:42 pm »
1)


A very relevent post.
I've always found it difficult getting passionate about a match when sitting down. You're always expecting to have to let someone past for another hotdog. Bit like the pictures.
Maybe it was better when there were no tickets, you just queued to get in. For big games you had to start queueing a few hours before the game, then got in and had to wait for kick-off. The tension started to build up and singing came natural. The kop always filled up early because it was the place to be. These days the place is almost empty 15mins before kick-off.

Offline Kopite1971

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2012, 04:16:13 pm »
A very relevent post.
I've always found it difficult getting passionate about a match when sitting down. You're always expecting to have to let someone past for another hotdog. Bit like the pictures.
Maybe it was better when there were no tickets, you just queued to get in. For big games you had to start queueing a few hours before the game, then got in and had to wait for kick-off. The tension started to build up and singing came natural. The kop always filled up early because it was the place to be. These days the place is almost empty 15mins before kick-off.


Your right, maybe the real campaign should be for the authorities to allow alcoholic drinks to be drunk pitchside.  Football is probably the only sport where you can't drink a drop of alcohol in sight of the pitch.  Rugby to my knowledge, no problem, cricket definetly no problem, you can sit there all day only moving to stagger to the bar or toilet.  At away games theres definately a huge sing song going on below the seats and actually is probably more dangerous than if the same people could drink in their seats, thus taking the sing song and spectacle pitch side.  They could still limit sales to the current timeslots and stop any individual taking more than 2 drinks back to their seats.

That should definately be the campaign, allow football supporters to drink in thier seats rather than the antiquated laws relating to standing terraces and mass football hooliganism and that would certainly help build an atmosphere
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Offline Kemlyn 28

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2012, 05:02:12 pm »
Dunno if you're taking the piss, but OOT has nothing to do with it.

  Not many local daytrippers are there?
That's one way of ensuring the end of the thread. Congrats.
  It's a pity getting rid of the whoppers who infest the Kop wasn't as easy.

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2012, 05:04:50 pm »
Has anyone asked Sid James?
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Offline kneeys

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2012, 05:21:55 pm »
Has anyone asked Sid James?

His light never goes out so he is not arsed if we sing or not !
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Offline MiserableP15

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2012, 05:29:18 pm »
Has anyone asked Sid James?

You are seriously obsessed.
1. Is Sid coming to Wembley?
2. Are you Sid's actual owner and just like yanking all our chains?
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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2012, 05:38:18 pm »
You are seriously obsessed.
Yes
1. Is Sid coming to Wembley?
I really do hope so
2. Are you Sid's actual owner and just like yanking all our chains?
I wish I was, honestly I do.
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Offline Paragon

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2012, 05:57:45 pm »
  Realised that the battle to beat OOT daytrippers was a futile one perhaps?

Sorry I don't buy into that at all.
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Offline CANADAlglish

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2012, 06:07:02 pm »
#occupytheKOP

Offline Rome-77

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2012, 06:07:46 pm »
Never understood RTK just a load of people saying we are better than you this is how you should act.

The more I get told to do something the less likely I am to do it.

I almost got myself a wanker hat to wear in the Kop once just because they said we shouldn't.

"The more I get told to do something the less likely I am to do it."
well come on then ,like what

Offline KopiteWD

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2012, 06:09:11 pm »
I think an Ultra's group would be more effective than another Reclaim the Kop.
AMF

Offline Red_Mist

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2012, 06:10:58 pm »
That is the point, they never said you should or you shouldn't.  The problem is that the message of RTK was too difficult for our modern fanbase to understand.  An attitude not rules?  How the fuck does that work?

It descended into OOT baiting when it was NEVER that.  Or the Adistasi trabs police.  Fucking laughable.

I think the original drivers of RTK probably dropped the idea in despair and shame.

Sums it up. Although there was a sort of 'Kop Charter' wasn't there? that had do's and don'ts in it. But I don't think there was anything in that that could be disagreed with by most Liverpool fans, super or not.

To sneer at the original RTK as 'superfans' misses the point of simply attempting to maintain some degree of uniqueness. Maybe there is some irony in that, i.e. they wanted us to conform in our uniqueness. Maybe it was typical of some of The Kop to reject that. But I still think their intentions were sound.

Didn't Truth Day stem from RTK? That in itself is enough to justify what they were trying to do.

Offline Scud02

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2012, 06:40:58 pm »
Celtic have the Green Brigade, which has helped them out with getting an atmosphere. 

How about we make something similar, not the Red Brigade as they always accuse us of copying them  ;D
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Offline Scud02

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2012, 07:47:52 pm »
Genuinely guys, I would love a bit more movement to happen in this regard and not just in this thread, I mean in real life.  This is an issue that has been creeping around for a while now, we need to take some action!

Let's get something arranged or planned and see where it takes us???
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Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2012, 10:15:51 pm »
Sums it up. Although there was a sort of 'Kop Charter' wasn't there? that had do's and don'ts in it. But I don't think there was anything in that that could be disagreed with by most Liverpool fans, super or not.

To sneer at the original RTK as 'superfans' misses the point of simply attempting to maintain some degree of uniqueness. Maybe there is some irony in that, i.e. they wanted us to conform in our uniqueness. Maybe it was typical of some of The Kop to reject that. But I still think their intentions were sound.

Didn't Truth Day stem from RTK? That in itself is enough to justify what they were trying to do.

That's right mate - thing is even that Kop Charter was meant in part to be tongue in cheek.  The examples were primarily of how we used to be unique. Followed not followers. It railed against manifestations of identikit Sky generation fandom. 

You are right about Truth Day too.  You can also see the slow move from RTK to SOS if you show posts of RAWK user RTK.  The switch starts to happen with the Athens ticketing fiasco and soon escalates.

I think there is room for them to re-emerge and see if we can waken the old bird up again
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Offline Scud02

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2012, 10:21:27 pm »
That's right mate - thing is even that Kop Charter was meant in part to be tongue in cheek.  The examples were primarily of how we used to be unique. Followed not followers. It railed against manifestations of identikit Sky generation fandom. 

You are right about Truth Day too.  You can also see the slow move from RTK to SOS if you show posts of RAWK user RTK.  The switch starts to happen with the Athens ticketing fiasco and soon escalates.

I think there is room for them to re-emerge and see if we can waken the old bird up again

Would you be up for trying to get something sorted Veinticinco?  Personally I think the idea is good, we could follow the charter as before, we just need to take off under a new name/direction/aim or aims.  I'd love to make a SOS like group with members and senior members who have links to the club.  From there, we could debate and talk with the club on how to 'fix' the Kop and hopefully they would listen.  I'm not up for listening to any of this bullshit 'superfan' nonsense, you have the privilege to be in the Kop, you should use it.  Would love to try and set up a group similar to the Green Brigade at Celtic even though it's a small part of the stadium, we need a 'Kop Section' or something, I feel the whole 'Reclaim the Kop' name would make people thank back to the old group, we need a new name, a new group who can take off where RTK finished (although that was because of H +G)
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Offline aggerdid

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2012, 01:12:05 pm »
the kop should be full standing imo and if you can't stand for 90 minutes maybe consider another stand. 

And this is exactly how the arguments started last time.

Super fans telling other's how THEY should behave.


And before you fire one back, be mindfull that I'm all for reclaim the Kop.  I'm just not into all of the bullying that goes on like that above.


Either behave like us, or fuck off attitude does noboby any good, and is what caused no end of arguments, last time around.
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Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2012, 01:49:53 pm »
if singing at the game and supporting the team is a "superfan" thing to do then we might aswell play behind close doors
And your point ?



Just for the reckord, I've been standing on the Kop and singing my balls off,  since the 70s


And as I said, it's the shitty attitude of the super fans towards others that causes all of the divisions and schisms in the first place.

Thats not a togetherness. Thats an 'I'm better than you' attitude, and if you don't do what we say, we're going to be big bully's and call you names, stance.


I think everyone in the ground should sing, myself, but attitudes of some people turning on others just because they happen to be quieter than you, fucking stinks.

It should be inclusive - not exclusive.

Offline Maggie May

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2012, 03:27:09 pm »
Would there be any specific way of trying to restart RTK?  Would we have to get into contact with the former heads who are now (more than likely) in the SOS?

BHB was the "voice" of RTK on here back in the day.  He hasn't posted for a while, but a PM should reach him all right, and he can hopefully assist you.

And you do know that you will be opposed by the HFSG if you try to get a standing section going don't you?
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Offline Scud02

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2012, 05:41:31 pm »
BHB was the "voice" of RTK on here back in the day.  He hasn't posted for a while, but a PM should reach him all right, and he can hopefully assist you.

And you do know that you will be opposed by the HFSG if you try to get a standing section going don't you?

I will try and give him a PM, is that right?  I never knew that, but why?  Standing wasn't the reason Hillsborough happened, the inquiry confirmed that.
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Offline Scottish-Don

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2012, 05:49:22 pm »
Although I think it's a great idea, I seem to remember the last effort also caused a few schisms between the super-duper fans and the ordinary fans.

It was a bit clicky.

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Offline Maggie May

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2012, 06:10:02 pm »
I will try and give him a PM, is that right?  I never knew that, but why?  Standing wasn't the reason Hillsborough happened, the inquiry confirmed that.

I know.  In fact I thought that the dogs in the street knew that.  But the HFSG have always been violently opposed to standing.  Why?  I've no idea.  Ask BSB to tell you about a conversation he had with Margaret Aspinall about the subject.  ::)
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Offline Scud02

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2012, 07:44:59 pm »
I know.  In fact I thought that the dogs in the street knew that.  But the HFSG have always been violently opposed to standing.  Why?  I've no idea.  Ask BSB to tell you about a conversation he had with Margaret Aspinall about the subject.  ::)

Anyone got a link to BSB's account so I can PM him?
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Offline Maggie May

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2012, 07:52:38 pm »
Anyone got a link to BSB's account so I can PM him?

Erm.  I may have made an error-ette.  Try BHB.   :butt   Don't shout at me.  I am old.   :sad   
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Offline Redman0151

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2012, 07:52:55 pm »
  Not many local daytrippers are there?   It's a pity getting rid of the whoppers who infest the Kop wasn't as easy.

 It's a crock of shit, it's not just OOT fans ruining the atmosphere so let's drop that now. The amount of locals and season ticket holders who sit there moaning all game and stand there catching up and chatting with their mates/other STH near them during YNWA is  just as high if not higher than the OOTers. Our fans unfortunately are like the team at home, only bother showing up for the big games.
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Offline Minore

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #70 on: March 4, 2012, 04:00:46 pm »
I think an Ultra's group would be more effective than another Reclaim the Kop.

Like new-founded 'Tottenham Ultras'? ;)
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Offline Kopite B205

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #71 on: March 4, 2012, 04:08:31 pm »
The Kops dead. It's like an ancient relic living off past glories. Now and then it rouses itself from its slumber to suit the occasion. sad really, but I have stood/sat in this stand for 26 consecutive years and have seen the steady decline.
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Offline KopiteWD

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #72 on: March 4, 2012, 04:44:57 pm »
AMF

Offline aggerdid

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #73 on: March 4, 2012, 05:07:16 pm »
The Kops dead. It's like an ancient relic living off past glories. Now and then it rouses itself from its slumber to suit the occasion. sad really, but I have stood/sat in this stand for 26 consecutive years and have seen the steady decline.
the sad truth.

So many factors contribute to damaging the atmosphere. Sad thing is a lot of them can't be reversed either. Like in the next 2 years there'll be a point when I'm paying £50 to stand on the kop. Main factors for me. Prices driving younger fans away, hotdogs etc, political correctness, no booze within sight of the pitch, oots. You could right a book. Yesterday I was having a piss this fella next to me goes "we having a piss at an away trip here or something" the key factor for me is, and it was the same at wembley last week, you don't trust the people next to you to know Liverpool songs. One thing I will say its not all the oots last week there was Norwegians in front of me that were singing along. The majority of them can fuck off and take their posh cameras with them
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Offline KopiteWD

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2012, 10:35:40 pm »
Not sure if its been mentioned but Why won't SOS get involved in improving the atmosphere at Anfield?
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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2012, 08:21:04 pm »
One thing I will say its not all the oots last week there was Norwegians in front of me that were singing along.

The Norwegian contingent used to be very sound and strong a few years ago.  The names escape me, but I'm sure all the stuff - flags and where they used to stay - in one of the big Anfield Road houses - are  here on RAWK.  Damn my wretched memory.   :no     
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Offline sidneyroughdiamond

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2012, 08:29:38 pm »
It's a crock of shit, it's not just OOT fans ruining the atmosphere so let's drop that now. The amount of locals and season ticket holders who sit there moaning all game and stand there catching up and chatting with their mates/other STH near them during YNWA is  just as high if not higher than the OOTers. Our fans unfortunately are like the team at home, only bother showing up for the big games.

Amen, I know a few OOT'S who were verbally assaulted by so called members of the RTK movement. I know you can't legislate for a minority of idiots, unfortunately I can see many more jumping on this bandwagon.
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Offline KopiteWD

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2012, 10:48:59 pm »
Got an Idea in my head but before I post what it is,

Where about do the reserves and academy play their matches?
& can you pay to watch them or is it free?
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Offline Scud02

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2012, 10:57:04 pm »
Got an Idea in my head but before I post what it is,

Where about do the reserves and academy play their matches?
& can you pay to watch them or is it free?

Have to pay mate but it's very cheap, only a couple of quid, what's your idea  8)
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Offline lucas leivas #1 fan

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Re: What happened to 'Reclaim The Kop'?
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2012, 11:11:16 pm »
got stick before for being an OoT (which is silly because my heritage is from the area I just have a southern accent as I grew up down south) but alot of OoT's actually make a big effort to properly get involved (not all mind) and the problem isnt where you're from - lord knows people with various accents have asked me if I'm gonna sit down when at a game - the lad next to me at the Carling cup final (last game I went to) spent almost the whole of the 2 hours whinging about our players and calling every player bar Skrtel (including gerrard) a lazy c*nt, and the woman behind me asked me to sit down after half and hour, both had thick Scouse accents, so the problem clearly isn't where you are from
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