Topic: Suso

[PhilV]

Yes, it was a catch 22, if he stayed here we would not have got the first team football he needed to develop into what he is today, therefore he would not have turned out this way.

Him going and flourishing is because of him going and getting said game time.

So I do believe the club made the right move for the club and player at the time. He wasn't breaking into the team, he went elsewhere and due to different playing styles and whatnot he looks great, don't forget different teams play different football and many times in the past and in the future no doubt a player moves from one team & system to another and either looks much better or much worse, it can go either way.

[El Lobo]

Yes, it was a catch 22, if he stayed here we would not have got the first team football he needed to develop into what he is today, therefore he would not have turned out this way.

Him going and flourishing is because of him going and getting said game time.

So I do believe the club made the right move for the club and player at the time. He wasn't breaking into the team, he went elsewhere and due to different playing styles and whatnot he looks great, don't forget different teams play different football and many times in the past and in the future no doubt a player moves from one team & system to another and either looks much better or much worse, it can go either way.

In the grand scheme of things, we've done pretty well in terms of young'ish players leaving and going on to great things. The fact that since, what, the mid-90s the best players to leave at a young age have been a decent Spanish CB and a decent Spanish attacking midfielder is testament that we're generally pretty good at making those decisions.

[Legoland]

In the grand scheme of things, we've done pretty well in terms of young'ish players leaving and going on to great things. The fact that since, what, the mid-90s the best players to leave at a young age have been a decent Spanish CB and a decent Spanish attacking midfielder is testament that we're generally pretty good at making those decisions.

Wish we inserted a buy back clause in his contract. Even if it was something outrageous like 30m just to have that option.

[Legoland]

Well yeah but he was in that scenario because he wouldn't sign a new contract because we couldn't give him much football, pretty much. We had, and have, better players in his position.

Come on. That's not true.
Brendan had plenty of opportunity to field him and he chose not to.

Just go look at the Suso thread in the general section.

[Legoland]

Think he'd be the perfect solution for our midfield creativity problem right now. Lallana and him fighting it out for the central midfield spot. Coutinho and Salah fighting it out for one of the front three spot.

[WaterfordRed]

Good luck to him in the world cup. He would never have made it at Liverpool. There is life after LFC. Hard to imagine that but it is true.

[TepidT2O]

Think he'd be the perfect solution for our midfield creativity problem right now. Lallana and him fighting it out for the central midfield spot. Coutinho and Salah fighting it out for one of the front three spot.

He's the least Klopp like player I can imagine... 

[El Lobo]

Come on. That's not true.
Brendan had plenty of opportunity to field him and he chose not to.

Just go look at the Suso thread in the general section.

Well yeah, exactly. And lets not build some narrative that Brendan Rodgers destroyed some unbelievable young player. He was bang on for playing youngsters, he started Suso plenty. He just frankly wasn't as good as we thought he would be.

[ggcc14]

in the Spain squad? lol and David Villa, wow!

He's the least Klopp like player I can imagine...

Yeah you are imagining, just because he's small and Spanish.. he does cover some ground.

Suso was given ago by Brendan yeh but he still should have been managed better, if me sat at home can see his great technical ability then why can't people at the club?

He wasn't good enough to start for us consistently as a 19 year old in his first season in top flight football in England yes, but not being able to recognise potential is negligence.

[El Lobo]

in the Spain squad? lol and David Villa, wow!
Yeah you are imagining, just because he's small and Spanish.. he does cover some ground.

Suso was given ago by Brendan yeh but he still should have been managed better, if me sat at home can see his great technical ability then why can't people at the club?

He wasn't good enough to start for us consistently as a 19 year old in his first season in top flight football in England yes, but not being able to recognise potential is negligence.

Love stuff like that

I'd hazard a guess Brendan Rodgers, who is still pretty young and has been coaching for 15 odd years (a lot of that with youth players) is maybe better placed to make that decision than you, sat at home. No offence.

Not that you cant have an opinion like, but you have no idea. He managed to make Jon Flanagan look like a good PL fullback, he helped Sterling reach a level where someone was prepared to pay £50 million for him, he played numerous other youngsters, helped young players like Coutinho and Sturridge reach a much higher level than they had before, has gone on to Celtic and done similar with their young players. You're talking about a coach who has reached the level where he's able to manage massive clubs like Liverpool and Celtic precisely because he's excelled with bringing through youngsters. It could be that Suso was this unbelievable youngster, always worked hard in training, no attitude problems, looked fantastic whenever he played with the first team. Or could be that he maybe wasn't, that he was a decent youngster with good potential much like Andre Wisdom, or Martin Kelly, or Mikel San Jose, and that he just so happened to leave because it just wasn't happening here and he's gone to a slower league where he's been able to live up to his potential a bit more than he was here.

[DanA]

The only reason it wasn't happening for Suso was that he was one paced and diminutive and we had plenty of better options that fit that bill. He simply wasn't going to beat out Coutinho, Lallana or even Milner and really he still wouldn't.

[Legoland]

The only reason it wasn't happening for Suso was that he was one paced and diminutive and we had plenty of better options that fit that bill. He simply wasn't going to beat out Coutinho, Lallana or even Milner and really he still wouldn't.

Suso was way younger at the time. Milner wasn't at the club, Lallana looked like a flop and Coutinho was nowhere near the quality he is today.

Im not saying Suso is the new Messi, nor am I saying Brendan was shit. I liked Brendan very much and thought he did a very respectable job here. He made a mistake with Suso is all I feel. People make mistakes and that's fine.

I also agree that had he stayed here and not played games, he wouldn't have developed into what he is today, but inserting a buy back clause would've been wise in hindsight. Something we can learn from. In today's squad I think he'd be a valuable asset. May not be a dead cert started but a definite challenger for a spot in the midfield 3.

[TepidT2O]

in the Spain squad? lol and David Villa, wow!
Yeah you are imagining, just because he's small and Spanish.. he does cover some ground.

Suso was given ago by Brendan yeh but he still should have been managed better, if me sat at home can see his great technical ability then why can't people at the club?

He wasn't good enough to start for us consistently as a 19 year old in his first season in top flight football in England yes, but not being able to recognise potential is negligence.

I'm not imagining I saw he play many times.

[ggcc14]

I'd hazard a guess Brendan Rodgers, who is still pretty young and has been coaching for 15 odd years (a lot of that with youth players) is maybe better placed to make that decision than you, sat at home. No offence.

Not that you cant have an opinion like, but you have no idea.

Well clearly I was right on this one because he's looking great in Serie A and just got a call up to the Spain NT. Better placed to make the call, absolutely.. he worked with him everyday which makes it all the more staggering he was allowed to go.

Doesn't get any resounding credit in reference to Sterling, he was clearly a huge talent in the youth teams, he's just scored 2 in his last 2 City games and he's an England International, not like Brendan was the key to him performing (though he helped sure) - Sterling getting sold also wasn't a good thing on our/Brendan's part. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize his quality, I guess sheer speed is more obvious to acknowledge than technical ability to some extent.

If a kid isn't ready at 19 to succeed with us but clearly has talent you sign him up on a big contract and loan him out until he's ready, something Chelsea do far too much but it protects you and can yield good results.

Let me ask you this, would you like Suso at the club now?

[zabadoh]

...he's looking great in Serie A ...

That's the key for the boost in Suso's performance as well as Paletta's.

Serie A is a slower, less physical league.  Numerous signings from Serie A who were big names there couldn't make an impact in the Premiership because they weren't fast enough.

Conversely, slower, but more tactical players who flop here because they can't get away from markers suddenly turn into superstars then they transfer to Serie A.

[El Lobo]

Well clearly I was right on this one because he's looking great in Serie A and just got a call up to the Spain NT. Better placed to make the call, absolutely.. he worked with him everyday which makes it all the more staggering he was allowed to go.

Doesn't get any resounding credit in reference to Sterling, he was clearly a huge talent in the youth teams, he's just scored 2 in his last 2 City games and he's an England International, not like Brendan was the key to him performing (though he helped sure) - Sterling getting sold also wasn't a good thing on our/Brendan's part. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize his quality, I guess sheer speed is more obvious to acknowledge than technical ability to some extent.

If a kid isn't ready at 19 to succeed with us but clearly has talent you sign him up on a big contract and loan him out until he's ready, something Chelsea do far too much but it protects you and can yield good results.

Let me ask you this, would you like Suso at the club now?

Why would I want him at the club now...? He wouldn't get in the team.

[BabuYagu]

Come on. That's not true.
Brendan had plenty of opportunity to field him and he chose not to.

Just go look at the Suso thread in the general section.

He played 21 times for Liverpool, almost 1,000 minutes in total. Scored 1 goal (in the League Cup against Boro that finished 16:15 on pens) and had 1 assist (away against Udinese in the Europa League). The majority of his pitch times was in the league (15 appearances) where he had 0 goals or assists.

[Coolie High]

He's the least Klopp like player I can imagine...

Then you must have not watched him...

[Coolie High]

I don't understand why people still misconstrue the type of player Suso is, when he was at our club for nearly 5 years, in those 5 years he developed in a strong more selfless(work rate) wise player than he was when he first arrived, credit to our coaches, but by the time Suso was leaving our club, the idea of working hard for the team, pressing and defending wasn't a foreign concept to him, in fact during last season i posted a stat that Suso had won the ball back in the final third more than any other attacking player in the league. Its a significant stat to show that he isn't work shy, and us ourselves have had players like Sterling Suarez Coutinho who used to always show up in similar related stats, its not a coincidence but you don't stay at Liverpool 5 years not knowing how to press, at any level, and when players like Suarez and Gerrard are your club role models, and you grew up being coached by John Mcmahon, Segura Rodofo Borrell and then Brendan Rodgers its no surprise it isn't anymore a weak facet in his game.

Is he a Klopp player, well ideally i don't think he is a a Klopp winger, but at the same time he could play there to a decent level, because he is now productive, and he does now press from the front, ideally though he doesn't have enough pace, and still his biggest chance to become a truly world class player, lies in midfield, a position where he is still very untested at a senior level.

[Fromola]

Suso is called up for Spain's WC qualifiers. Happy for the kid and wish we didn't fuck this up badly.

It'll rub our noses in it even more if he stars at the World Cup now next year.

[Chris~]

He's a decent player who would be a decent squad option. If you're going to be successful players like that are going to leave at times.

Ideally you keep a good relationship with them and their agent and just buy them back if they become good enough.

[Legoland]

I'm not imagining I saw he play many times.

Good thing you're not a club scout.

[Doc Red]

Is there also a Shelvey thread, or will that only be resurrected if he scores 4 goals in 4 games?
Suso would never have fit our current style of play, in fact had he hung around he most likely would be talked about in terms of how much we could make from selling him this window.
Players don't get sold simply because they become useless, generally they are decent enough to consider keeping but might not fit our style of play or at the level our manager might deem necessary enough to maintain a squad position. Having a good season elsewhere or getting called up by their respective national team doesnt counter the initial reason for their sale.
I wish him well, but honestly their hasn't been a single moment since he left that had me thinking ' really wish we'd kept him all this time'.

[BabuYagu]

Is there also a Shelvey thread, or will that only be resurrected if he scores 4 goals in 4 games?
Suso would never have fit our current style of play, in fact had he hung around he most likely would be talked about in terms of how much we could make from selling him this window.
Players don't get sold simply because they become useless, generally they are decent enough to consider keeping but might not fit our style of play or at the level our manager might deem necessary enough to maintain a squad position. Having a good season elsewhere or getting called up by their respective national team doesnt counter the initial reason for their sale.
I wish him well, but honestly their hasn't been a single moment since he left that had me thinking ' really wish we'd kept him all this time'.

Agreed. Also running at the ball carrier is not pressing.

Remember watching the Milan derby last November and almost every attack went through Suso's zone like he wasn't there. Ansaldi & Perisic had a field day on that left flank. Now in fairness, Milan weren't great at remaining compact and supporting Locatelli but Suso was a big part of the problem. He is terrible at using his covering shadow to press people. All too often he would stand in front of Ansaldi instead angled off to the side. This opens up the midfield for passes instead of focusing on pushing play down the left. This allowed Candreva and Joao Mario to drop into spaces centrally either side of Locatelli. Suso's pressing was allowing them to move the ball infield, overload Locatelli. They would then use a simple combination to get the ball to Perisic in a dangerous position. Candreva's long range goal came from exactly this. Suso pushing play into an area his team was overloaded, Locatelli pulled out of zone 14 by Joao Maria leaving Candreva free to get on the ball and hammer one in. Simple.

Instead, if you press with your cover shadow protecting the central areas, this would force them to play the ball into Perisic with his back to goal on the wing where there is relatively little immediate danger and he can be easily contained. Almost any action Perisic does then either takes him back towards his own goal or requires him to turn on the ball opening himself up to being tackled.

I like Suso, always have. If you gave me a choice right now of having Suso to cover for Lallana right now in Coutinho's absence I would take it. He would certainly link the play vertically better than Milner, Can or Gini. But that is a very short term problem. Also there are many alternatives out there who could do that task while also being a better fit to Klopp and what he wants off the ball.

When you watch the game today watch how our forward players press, the will push the play towards the sides, usually our left side. The only time we press encouraging passes through the middle is when we have a numerical advantage in the middle and can ambush the receiver with his back to goal and have an immediate overload on the counter. Suso's pressing was encouraging Inter to pass where they were numerically outnumbering Milan all game. Their flat four in front of Locatelli was occupied by the Inter full backs and 2 DM's, then they had a player either side of Locatelli.

Although, in attack, he was brilliant at finding and using space that day. But defensively he wouldn't be an ideal Klopp player and the idea he is good at pressing needs knocking on the head.

[LFC when it suits]

Suso with an assist for Milan.

[Barneylfc∗]

Suso with an assist for Milan.

And now a smashing free kick

[PoetryInMotion]

He's reaching a new level with that new look Milan team. He had so many assists last season and now he has 2 goals and 2 assists in 2 games.

[kcbworth]

He's close to their main man. A huge fan favourite there now. Good player, as we all knew he would be.

[Samie]

It'll rub our noses in it even more if he stars at the World Cup now next year.

LMAO! I'd love to know who you think he's going to be starring or starting ahead of at the world cup.

[ggcc14]

LMAO! I'd love to know who you think he's going to be starring or starting ahead of at the world cup.

Hard to say as we don't know how Lopetegui is going to play it, 3-4-3 or 4-3-3..

could look something like Asensio Busquets Saul Koke - Morata Costa Isco or Koke Busquets Thiago - Asensio Costa Isco

It's hard to call, probably just be a member of the squad sparingly used is my guess, good for him to have earned a call up though.

When Spain won the Euros in 08 they had people like Ruben de la Red, Guiza and Sergio Garcia in the squad.. following tournaments players like Jesus Navas, Llorente and Negredo featured in their International success and these are the arguably the greatest side ever. So it's certainly feasible he goes, who starts is dependent on form this season I suppose.

[Aussie_Red1980]

Anyone see his latest goal against Austria Vienna ?

[Coolie High]

What a player.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Deflected and the keeper really should have saved it...

[kcbworth]

So far this season 5 games, 3 goals, 4 assists.

[Klippity Klopp]

Yes, it was a catch 22, if he stayed here we would not have got the first team football he needed to develop into what he is today, therefore he would not have turned out this way.

We could have played him rather than kept him in the U23s for years, so I don't agree.

He deserved a chance and for years people were asking for him to get one.  He barely got one despite looking promising when he did.

We handled Suso badly.

[BabuYagu]

We could have played him rather than kept him in the U23s for years, so I don't agree.

He deserved a chance and for years people were asking for him to get one.  He barely got one despite looking promising when he did.

We handled Suso badly.

Players don't really play for a club, they play for a manager. If the manager doesn't fancy him, or thinks he lacks a certain quality he wants to see, he won't use him.

Suso's entire time at Liverpool as a senior player fell under Brendan Rodgers time at the club. Even if the club wanted to keep him and sign him to a new deal, if Rodgers doesn't use him, there is no point. Do you back the player or the manager? Do you insist the player plays (as Abramovich allegedly did at Chelsea at times) or do you leave the manager to make the personnel decisions?

[pyroparty]

Poor again today, this thread is way out of whack compared to what he actually produces on the pitch.

[So… Howard Philips]

Poor again today, this thread is way out of whack compared to what he actually produces on the pitch.

But absence makes the heart grow fonder.

[Fromola]

Poor again today, this thread is way out of whack compared to what he actually produces on the pitch.

The whole team were awful yesterday. He Doesn't really suit that position and in a 352, still good stats already this seaosn.

Milan still a poor side trying to gel a new team of signings, albeit a poorer one he was carrying last season. You'd like to see what he could actually do in a good team. He's the only real survivor from last season in their first XI.

[_00_deathscar]

He's still only 23 too (albeit turning 24 soon). Scored 3 and provided 2 assists in 7 games so far - yea, real shocking (a couple of those out of position and as a sub).