Author Topic: Curtis Jones  (Read 591161 times)

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #560 on: August 24, 2020, 05:37:00 pm »
I've not watched any interviews where the lad has come across as arrogant & acted like billy big bollocks.

Neither have I, and think I've seen most, if not all, of the interviews he's done for a while now.

Offline newterp

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #561 on: August 24, 2020, 05:57:17 pm »
I've not watched any interview. the lad has come across as arrogant & acted like billy big bollocks.

For a millisecond I read it like this and was going to be perplexed. :D

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #562 on: August 24, 2020, 06:46:18 pm »
Has he come the big I am and broken the code?
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Offline gerrardisgod

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #563 on: August 26, 2020, 10:46:33 am »
Not included in the England U21 squad bizarrely/thankfully.
AHA!

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #564 on: August 26, 2020, 10:53:11 am »
Not included in the England U21 squad bizarrely/thankfully.

Probably been dropped because of his billy big bollocks attitude
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #565 on: August 26, 2020, 11:33:05 am »
Does all this nonsense stem from an interview given 7 months ago where he expressed confidence in his own ability and slight understandable frustration at not getting more minutes?

It's bizarre, he's seemed really level headed and calm from all the recent stuff I've seen going on. He seems to have been placed at the forefront of the Nike campaign along with VVD and AOC too.
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Offline Robotforaday

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #566 on: August 26, 2020, 02:05:44 pm »
The pop psychology on this fella does my head in.

He's a young lad who wants to play football! Good on him. Hope he gets plenty of chances in the coming season.

Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #567 on: August 26, 2020, 02:15:08 pm »
Is it possible we’re all taking things a little too seriously?
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Offline whtwht

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #568 on: August 26, 2020, 02:23:09 pm »
The pop psychology on this fella does my head in.

He's a young lad who wants to play football! Good on him. Hope he gets plenty of chances in the coming season.

Sad isn't it. Such a self assured good player already. Fingers crossed he has a stormer of a season
He'll win the league in the next 3 years. Quote me on that.
Quote me on this, but come next season he'll be great for us. Just needs to remove the walking headless chicken next to him

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #569 on: August 26, 2020, 02:23:55 pm »
Wth is going on?

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #570 on: August 26, 2020, 02:25:39 pm »
Wth is going on?

All stems from this post, with the bold bit being a tad bizarre.

Has all the attributes you’d want but still think there’s a way to go development-wise and he’ll need to remain patient. Imagine Klopp will want to break him down a little to build him up, mentally at least. Can’t quite put my finger on it, but would like to see him a bit calmer and more controlled when things aren’t going quite so well in a game, and impose himself and direct the play accordingly. If he can do that in time, then the sky’s the limit.


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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #571 on: August 26, 2020, 02:27:30 pm »
Utterly bizarre that.



Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #572 on: August 26, 2020, 03:02:59 pm »
The thread's opening post followed Jurgen's post-match comments after Curtis decided to take the last penalty against Arsenal in the League Cup.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-arsenal-penalties-jones-origi-17175400

Quote
Jurgen Klopp admits he hadn't intended for Curtis Jones to take Liverpool's decisive penalty on a remarkable League Cup night at Anfield.

Jones struck the winning spot-kick in front of the Kop to secure a 5-4 shoot-out success after an incredible 5-5 draw against Arsenal in their fourth-round tie.

The 18-year-old, one of six Liverpool players making their home debut, had been introduced 10 minutes into the second half for the injured Naby Keita.

And Klopp revealed how an unexpected change in order had given homegrown talent Jones his big moment for his boyhood club.

“You need to be born as Liverpool, probably, to do that,” said the Reds boss.

“It was not my idea. I looked and saw the list and he was fourth on it. Divock was on number five, he was on number four.

“Then I saw Divock walking to take number four and I thought 'oh... okay! They’ve changed!' A good situation.

“Curtis has no issue with self-confidence. Absolutely he doesn’t struggle with that!

“It’s nice, absolutely nice. I am really pleased for him.”

The thread was therefore originally entitled "Curtis Jones - No Issues With Self Confidence", because he had previous for expressing his frustration at not having more chances at a first team berth. Before and since, there's been widespread discussion around his need to be patient and work at his game, and he's done both. So discussing that isn't really that bizarre, is it?
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #573 on: August 26, 2020, 05:33:30 pm »
So discussing that isn't really that bizarre, is it?

My bizarre comment was specifically referring to the poster saying "I Imagine Klopp will want to break him down a little to build him up, mentally at least".

Which seems a tad dramatic and on the extreme side, hence bizarre.

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Curtis Jones
« Reply #574 on: August 26, 2020, 09:30:40 pm »
My bizarre comment was specifically referring to the poster saying "I Imagine Klopp will want to break him down a little to build him up, mentally at least".

Which seems a tad dramatic and on the extreme side, hence bizarre.
It sounds less like the Klopp management style and more like the kind of thing Brendan Rodgers might have picked up from reading Bravo Two Zero or something.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #575 on: August 26, 2020, 09:31:23 pm »
It sounds less like the Klopp management style and more like the kind of thing Brendan Rodgers might have picked up from reading Bravo Two Zero or something.

"Curtis, Curtis, come here and pick one of these envelopes..."

Offline newterp

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #576 on: August 26, 2020, 10:50:10 pm »
"Curtis, Curtis, come here and pick one of these envelopes..."

Boss what does it mean that there’s a plane ticket in this one?

Offline phoenician

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #577 on: August 27, 2020, 04:48:33 am »
If you're here after Googling "curtis jones big bollocks", welcome - you're in the right place.

Offline Raid

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #578 on: August 27, 2020, 09:47:46 am »
If you're here after Googling "curtis jones big bollocks", welcome - you're in the right place.

 ;D

Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #579 on: August 27, 2020, 01:22:08 pm »
My bizarre comment was specifically referring to the poster saying "I Imagine Klopp will want to break him down a little to build him up, mentally at least".

Which seems a tad dramatic and on the extreme side, hence bizarre.

It's an overstatement of the case I think, but Klopp was on record re how he planned to handle Curtis last pre-season.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/tour-2018/308654-curtis-jones-jurgen-klopp-interview

Quote
Jürgen “He has to adapt to the group; the group have adapted already to him, he was in last year together with Rafa Camacho, another really young boy,” the boss told Liverpoolfc.com.

“They are different and the two boys before that came up like this were Trent Alexander-Arnold and Ben Woodburn. How they came in, they were really role models - not shy, but looking around, ‘What can I say?’ Curtis is different, Rafa is different.

“Curtis is a proper Scouser - I don’t know if I have the right words, but he is not shy to say a few things and probably that’s a surprise for one or two players! It’s easy, he accepts the rules of the group, there is no doubt about that.

“Football-wise he of course stepped up, that’s how it is. He is a tall boy but still very mobile, good at dribbling and stuff like that, but now we need to make sure he finds the right moment to pass the ball - and dribbling is not for dribbling, it’s to change the situation in a better way and then to pass the ball.

“But it’s easier to train that than to show somebody how to dribble, which is quite natural. It’s cool. Physical-wise [he is good] and has talent as well, but there is a long way to go.

“That’s a big challenge for all of us, how will he react to all the different public things, family at home, friends at home… there’s a lot of different challenges ahead. Because we’ve had these young boys around in the last few years, I think we are little bit better in dealing with that.

“We don’t have them for 24 hours around, just seven or eight hours at the training ground, so there are 16 hours where a lot of things can happen. We will work on that. We see his potential and want to help him to be the best he can be. As long as he is ready for that, the future is bright.”

A year on and things are going well enough that he's been given a squad number and has a league winners' medal. But the work is ongoing, no?

On top of that, Klopp is also more generally on record re young players and the need to be patient.

An example: https://tribuna.com/en/liverpoolfc/news/2020-03-06-klopp-the-biggest-problem-with-young-boys-is-they-dont-have-the-patience-anymore/

Quote
"In the last couple of years I have seen a lot of talented boys," Klopp said. "It's unbelievable how early it starts, 14, 15 or 16 you see them ready. The combination of speed and technique is often very obvious.

"But very often what you see with young players is that nobody has really taught them the game, so what are they doing when they don't have the ball? They can have the ball and be unbelievable but when the ball is somewhere else you don't see movements, you don't see offers.

"A player when they are young need to have talent and an obvious football character and show how are they involved in the game.

"Very often the biggest problem with young boys is they don't have the patience anymore. If they're not 18 and in the first team, it's a question like 'what's wrong?'. Today if at 22 you don't have 100 first team league games that's not cool. But we try to give the boys time and sometimes the boys don't want that.

"Training and lifestyle are how to stay at the top of the game. You can't enjoy life on the highest level, you have to take care of yourself. Alcohol is b******t for recovery, we don't say it's not allowed but it makes no sense.

"Nowadays we do a lot to help the players with life around football. Nutrition is a very big thing, if you sleep enough, train hard, eat and drink the right things that's what you need for a long career. Plus you need luck and not getting injured."

Taken on its own merits, that statement says that for each young player who breaks through, Klopp is potentially going to do some 'breaking down a little to build them up'. That could be taken as a mild variant of mentorship if you're inclined to read things openly.

But the idea of Klopp doing that isn't dramatic or bizarre - Camacho left for a decent fee because he wouldn't wait, and Jones stuck at it, and continues to stick at it.
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Offline deano2727

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #580 on: August 27, 2020, 01:27:57 pm »
God forbid a young lad has a bit of confidence in his own ability.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #581 on: August 27, 2020, 01:58:53 pm »
Quote
But the idea of Klopp doing that isn't dramatic or bizarre - Camacho left for a decent fee because he wouldn't wait, and Jones stuck at it, and continues to stick at it.

Camacho left as Klopp showed he never really trusted him by giving him next to no playing time, which was fine, Camacho wasn't good enough and needed to find a place that would play him. I don't think any anount of sticking at it would have changed Camachos's playing time here.

Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #582 on: August 27, 2020, 03:44:15 pm »
Camacho left as Klopp showed he never really trusted him by giving him next to no playing time, which was fine, Camacho wasn't good enough and needed to find a place that would play him. I don't think any anount of sticking at it would have changed Camachos's playing time here.

Camacho left because he demanded guarantees of first team football. That came after the club let Nathaniel Clyne go to Bournemouth on loan, leaving him as the de facto 2nd choice right back at the time. Trent is Trent, but Neco Williams has been the beneficiary of Camacho being impatient, simple as that.

This was after the late sub appearance against Palace when he pretty much saved the points for us at the death.
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/01/how-rafa-camacho-has-already-made-most-important-challenge-of-his-life-as-a-right-back/

Quote
“I told him immediately after the game that he’d already made the most important challenge of his life,” Klopp told the Liverpool Echo.

“I’m not sure he really got it—he looked at me like ‘what is he talking about?’—but it was really massive.”

The manager went on to explain how, while Camacho had produced “similar situations” in this new role as a right-back before, he still needed to adapt his “offensive mindset,” using Andy Robertson as an example.

“He’s good in defensive challenges. He’s an offensive player in his mindset and everything but look at our full-backs and where are they most of the time? You need these offensive skills,” he added.

“On the other side there will be moments when you are alone on the pitch against a world-class player and they are looking to nutmeg you or whatever.

“It is the learning process Robbo went through. He was a fantastic left-winger but played full-back and now he is a full-back. That’s really cool.

“I was really happy in that moment but I have seen similar situations from [Camacho] before.”

After Saturday’s win, Liverpool are heading to Dubai for a warm-weather training camp, but plagued with injuries and now Milner’s suspension, there are few options at right-back.

Trent Alexander-Arnold, Joe Gomez, Fabinho and Ki-Jana Hoever are all out, and in his post-match press conference Klopp said “it would have been a massive challenge if we should play on Wednesday and Saturday again.”

Fortunately, the Reds are not in action again until January 30, when Leicester travel to Anfield, and the hope will be that at least Fabinho is back to fitness.

But if not, it could be that Camacho follows up his league debut with his first start, and though this could be seen as a gamble, Klopp said “we have to use the resources we have already.”

“Tell me a player who can play right-back and other positions as well better than our boys like Rafa can do?” he challenged.

Klopp revealed that Alexander-Arnold “will be back early,” but the trip to West Ham on February 4 is more likely, meaning Camacho could well start against the Foxes.
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline Chris~

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #583 on: August 27, 2020, 05:36:38 pm »
Camacho left because he demanded guarantees of first team football. That came after the club let Nathaniel Clyne go to Bournemouth on loan, leaving him as the de facto 2nd choice right back at the time. Trent is Trent, but Neco Williams has been the beneficiary of Camacho being impatient, simple as that.

This was after the late sub appearance against Palace when he pretty much saved the points for us at the death.
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/01/how-rafa-camacho-has-already-made-most-important-challenge-of-his-life-as-a-right-back/
Camacho was behind Milner and Henderson as a right back option, and most likely fabinho, Gomez and Hoever as well. He wasn't ever going to be a good enough right back for us, was at an age where he should be playing and didnt rereally have any sign of minutes being here. It's not impaitence to look at your situation and think it's not working out. Williams benefitted more from Hoever going to the u17 world cup, which meant he got his chance vs Arsenal. That doesn't happen and he's probably in a similair situation to Camacho, looking at a loan or permanent move away.

On Jones, he shouldn't stop believing he's good enough to play (he is) and pushing for it and should continue to be arrogant on the pitch (It's fun to watch and what you get from some of the best)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 05:43:39 pm by Chris~ »

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #584 on: August 27, 2020, 07:04:54 pm »


Taken on its own merits, that statement says that for each young player who breaks through, Klopp is potentially going to do some 'breaking down a little to build them up'. That could be taken as a mild variant of mentorship if you're inclined to read things openly.

But the idea of Klopp doing that isn't dramatic or bizarre - Camacho left for a decent fee because he wouldn't wait, and Jones stuck at it, and continues to stick at it.
Think you're reaching somewhat to suggest that Klopp's approach and mentorship and generally looking after and helping his young players is equivalent to 'breaking them down a little to build them up'. Think the other guy was right: it is an over-dramatic statement that seems to be more out of the movies than Melwood.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #585 on: August 27, 2020, 07:15:32 pm »
On Jones, he shouldn't stop believing he's good enough to play (he is) and pushing for it and should continue to be arrogant on the pitch (It's fun to watch and what you get from some of the best)

I don't think anyone would disagree with that Chris. As I said above, Rossi is, for me, overstating the manager's approach with players, but the manager is a master of gently doing exactly what he describes. For the most part the players love him while he's doing it. 

We're going off topic here, and in fact it's maybe an interesting discussion in its own right on a separate thread (or the Klopp thread even)... so we can maybe draw a line under it here. But it does bear underlining from a club culture point of view. This is a theme that runs through everything - from the standards they want set from senior players (we saw Lallana lionised for it when he left in recent weeks), to the qualities they won't compromise on in the players they recruit from other clubs, to the coaching staff... the demand on the players is that they stay humble, stay hungry, work hard ('intensity is our identity'), and continuously learn and improve their game. 

So from that perspective, the players we've discussed to Tsimikas, Fabinho, Robertson, Shaqiri, Origi, whoever - that's what's expected of them. If they can't hack that then they leave. That might be rationalised as the player seeing their own limitations and moving on, but if the staff are on record as saying they want to leave a senior England international leave while retaining a prospect in the senior match day squad (during a league title push), it's quite a compelling message to the player that he's valued, and if he gets his head down, that he'll have a chance at a career here.   

The situation was identical for Jones, Camacho, Williams, Woodburn, Trent - whoever might be on the brink of breaking through. They might get no luck while waiting, but it's a simple fact that they have to wait patiently for their chance. Curtis is cocky, and that's good, but he was on public record saying he wanted to get in the first team side, to the extent Klopp commented on it (repeatedly - two examples are listed above, but there's a reason he says "He has no problems with confidence"). Curtis has since backed up the attitude with performance and professionalism to the extent he now has a squad number. That's a credit to him and to the staff. And from that point the expectations on him will only ramp up. That's no different to the expectations on any other senior player - it's the central tenet of Klopp's Liverpool - that we are 'mentality monsters'. That applies from top to bottom, and it doesn't stop the minute you assert a first team claim. They all enjoy their work, but they're serious and respectful in a way that's become distinct from their competitors in recent years (I think so anyway).

I'm not suggesting Curtis isn't doing those things, and I'm not suggesting those things are mutually exclusive to having self-belief. I'm saying that if he's arrogant, and he channels it the way he's being challenged to by the management and coaching staff, he'll go on to be a serious football player for this club.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #586 on: August 27, 2020, 07:21:17 pm »
Think you're reaching somewhat to suggest that Klopp's approach and mentorship and generally looking after and helping his young players is equivalent to 'breaking them down a little to build them up'. Think the other guy was right: it is an over-dramatic statement that seems to be more out of the movies than Melwood.

Equivalent? It barely matters, mind, but what I said was...

It's an overstatement of the case I think

You maybe missed that. Not that it matters really, but it's Rossi who said that.

What I'm saying is that all of the young players, and in fact all of the players and staff, are expected to be a certain way - physically, tactically, mentally. If they don't start out exactly the way they need to be, how it works tends to be that they get broken down a little bit, and then built up. A Fabinho has to wait a few months to get a first team berth (physical, tactical). A Curtis Jones has to wait despite telling the papers he wants first team games (mental).
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline JC the Messiah

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #587 on: August 27, 2020, 07:37:35 pm »
Klopp's certainly getting something right, as if you go through the whole squad, there's no one who's been at the club for any decent period of time who's lacking confidence - but at the same time, there's a lack of arrogance. Humility, aligned with a belief and self-assurance.

There are certainly egos, and elite sportsmen need that, but never does the ego spill over ahead of the team. Well, that's how it appears from the outside. It also looks like Klopp has fostered an environment that encourages this. The group wouldn't allow an ego to try an take over. There's no space for a Pogba, we have Henderson. Instead of a Lingard, we have Oxlade-Chamberlain, we don't have Maguire - we have Virgil.
"I said to the boys before the game it would be impossible. But because it’s you, I say we have a chance."
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"I told them if we score it will be different. We scored. It was different."
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Offline JC the Messiah

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #588 on: August 27, 2020, 07:38:53 pm »
If you're here after Googling "curtis jones big bollocks", welcome - you're in the right place.



:)
"I said to the boys before the game it would be impossible. But because it’s you, I say we have a chance."
Jürgen Klopp, 7 May 2019

"I told them if we score it will be different. We scored. It was different."
Rafael Benitez, 25 May 2005

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #589 on: August 27, 2020, 07:41:16 pm »
The things you state we do are no doubt true, esp. those that are evidenced. But I just don't see that they constitute ''breaking down and building up'', even in an overstated fashion. They seem to constitute giving players time to learn and grow and get up to speed, and identifying areas that need improving and then improving them, not breaking their previous characteristics, traits or anything else and then building them up again in a new form - which is really all that phrase can really mean.

Rossi's original quote also mentioned ''mentally''. Are we breaking our young players ''mentally''?

While we all shoot the breeze and talk crap online, sometimes precision and not being over-dramatic, is warranted.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #590 on: August 27, 2020, 07:45:44 pm »
The things you state we do are no doubt true, esp. those that are evidenced.

Thanks.

Now. On drama - let’s just agree to not really disagree. And to PM Rossi if you’re upset with Rossi.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #591 on: August 27, 2020, 07:52:07 pm »
I'm not upset with anyone, I thought we were having a discussion
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #592 on: August 28, 2020, 02:41:42 am »
Speak for yourself, I'm here for the bollocks.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #593 on: August 28, 2020, 03:59:08 am »
Speak for yourself, I'm here for the bollocks.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #594 on: August 28, 2020, 08:52:49 am »

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #595 on: August 29, 2020, 08:28:49 pm »
Loved how he gave it back to Martinez after he scored his pen. Martinez trying to chat shit to all the players as they stepped up

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #596 on: August 30, 2020, 09:28:56 am »
Loved how he gave it back to Martinez after he scored his pen. Martinez trying to chat shit to all the players as they stepped up

Yep he got after Rihan as well the classless twat, I wanted Curtis to go after him a bit more, I think he was fuming.

That pissed me right off yesterday made me a little graceless to my arsenal mate, that and the kissing the community shield the twats.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #597 on: August 30, 2020, 09:45:12 am »
His pen was class yesterday
walk on...walk on...

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #598 on: August 30, 2020, 03:14:21 pm »
His reaction to Brewster missing yesterday showed his future leadership qualities

Excited to see how he gets on this season

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #599 on: August 31, 2020, 02:41:54 am »
I absolutely love that he's so confident. WTF is wrong with some of yous?!

Curtis is gonna be class forus and will be here for a long time.
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