Topic: Fuel & energy prices

[west_london_red]

Thanks WLR. That's the first time I've seen any projected unit rates.
Looks like gas coming down by a bigger % than electricity. Either way both are welcome.

Yeah, it’s pretty useful. I’m sitting on quite a large credit with my energy provider currently, so based on that and hopefully the reduced unit charges I have reduced by Direct Debit, although considering my Mrs had the heating on today and it’s not even cold I might have been a tad optimistic 

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I feel your pain 

We’re still in credit and other than the £400 govt subsidy are still paying the same DDM as we were previously before all this kicked off, albeit it was a bit higher than it should have been to cover a previous deficit. That’s despite having had requests from Shell to increase the DDM from anything from 370 to 699 per month at various points. They were roundly told to fuck off every time, in the politest possible way of course.

That said, we’ve massively cut down on use, which has been helped by the kids not being around and not doing daft stuff like having extra fridge freezers in the garage virtually empty.

[west_london_red]

Yeah, we’ve cut our usage of gas from 23,000 KWh down to 20,000 KWh and electricity from 4,800 KWh down to 3900 KWh, although it’s come at the cost of me and the Mrs have had a fair few rows over her use of the heating when theres been absolutely no need to turn it on, although the reduction in electricity has been easy by just a few simple steps like buying a less power hungry computer, changing all the lights to led and adjusting the temperature on the freezer from its default -21 to -18.

[Red-Soldier]

Bank of England expected to raise interest rates after Fed hike – business live

UK central bank is expected to raise interest rates at noon today, for the 11th time in a row, after inflation jumped to 10.4% in February

I can't see a way out of this current situation, unless governments tackle the rampant profiteering going on (which definitely wont happen here).

The Ukraine invasion was the trigger, but inflation is currently being driven by unrestricted, corporate greed.  Raising interest rates will not change that and will just hurt average people more.

[stewil007]

I can't see a way out of this current situation, unless governments tackle the rampant profiteering going on (which definitely wont happen here).

The Ukraine invasion was the trigger, but inflation is currently being driven by unrestricted, corporate greed.  Raising interest rates will not change that and will just hurt average people more.

I still see the inflation figure as bollocks anyway, you cant tell me that when staples like bread/milk etc etc have gone up by 50% minimum - that is the figure which is more realistic to the majority of people.

[stewil007]

So, Octopus has just been in touch and the gas price has gone from 10.237p per unit to 10.184p per unit, standing charge has gone up from 26.841p per day to 27.468p per day.  I'll be saving £2 over the year.

Drinks are on me, a pipette drop of champagne for everyone!

[Fordy]

I can't see a way out of this current situation, unless governments tackle the rampant profiteering going on (which definitely wont happen here).

The Ukraine invasion was the trigger, but inflation is currently being driven by unrestricted, corporate greed.  Raising interest rates will not change that and will just hurt average people more.

Spot on. This isn't about inflation. You can't tell me that everything in the UK needs to increase.

The BOE are not understanding what is the real reason for prices going up and that's greed. As soon as interest rates go up then then the corporate companies are just increasing costs on all items.

What the BOE is doing isn't working and won't work. Yes, it used to work but in 2023 it won't and its they just damaging the average person as you say. The government needs to act on these corporate companies. It's the only way to stop all this.

[redbyrdz]

I can't see a way out of this current situation, unless governments tackle the rampant profiteering going on (which definitely wont happen here).

The Ukraine invasion was the trigger, but inflation is currently being driven by unrestricted, corporate greed.  Raising interest rates will not change that and will just hurt average people more.

Think energy prices will come down when the price cap ends. The providers know people can't pay more, but they're keeping prices up, so they can collect the government subsidy.

Energy prices coming down will affect food production costs, for greenhouses/chilled storage, so those could come down too.



But I agree, the real problem is the greedy profiteering. There should be a cap on how much prices can go up per year. Obviously, the believers in free market self regulation won't implement such a thing.

[Machae]

Of course it's greed and profiteering. Virgin Mobile increased their monthly dd by 17% citing inflation, yet I guarantee all these companies who have increased costs in line with inflation have given negligible pay rises to their workforce

[lobsterboy]

I can't see a way out of this current situation, unless governments tackle the rampant profiteering going on (which definitely wont happen here).

The Ukraine invasion was the trigger, but inflation is currently being driven by unrestricted, corporate greed.  Raising interest rates will not change that and will just hurt average people more.

They also keep ignoring the elephant in the room.
Brexit has massively impacted on the UK, hiking up our prices and it will continue to do so regardless.
Its the unmitigated disaster "Project Fear" claimed it would be.

I'm also unsure how raising interest rates will help when its the price of food going up.
Do the BoE and Jeremy C*nt expect people to stop eating?

Also note how the interest rate rises are not being applied to your savings.

[redbyrdz]

Of course it's greed and profiteering. Virgin Mobile increased their monthly dd by 17% citing inflation, yet I guarantee all these companies who have increased costs in line with inflation have given negligible pay rises to their workforce

I'm with Virgin for broadband. They sent me a letter with a similar increase, and then said that from now on, the increase will be 3.9% over RPI every year (or something similar). Sounded like there's some sort of legislation change, and they pushed a big increase through before they aren't allowed any more.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

They also keep ignoring the elephant in the room.
Brexit has massively impacted on the UK, hiking up our prices and it will continue to do so regardless.
Its the unmitigated disaster "Project Fear" claimed it would be.

I'm also unsure how raising interest rates will help when its the price of food going up.
Do the BoE and Jeremy C*nt expect people to stop eating?

Also note how the interest rate rises are not being applied to your savings.

If they eat less, can't keep themselves warm, then have to rely on the NHS to get them better then just imagine the mortality rates. The savings are incredible.
Why do you think they postponed bringing forward the increase to state pension age? - One article I saw did actually cite falling life expectancy.
They'd lower the duty on fags if they could, just to help a few more on their way.

The rich die at 90, the rest at 65. There's probably a section in their vision of the perfect world that covers that scenario.

[killer-heels]

If Inflation is such an issue, why the fuck are firms allowed to increase their prices of around 4% above inflation? Fucking laughable.

[Fordy]

If Inflation is such an issue, why the fuck are firms allowed to increase their prices of around 4% above inflation? Fucking laughable.

Because the government haven’t got a grip of the country and most of the MP’s or their backers have shares in these companies.

We need to get this government out or at least highlight enough is an enough. Carry on like this and the BOE and the government will ruin people and businesses.

[west_london_red]

If Inflation is such an issue, why the fuck are firms allowed to increase their prices of around 4% above inflation? Fucking laughable.

They are just jumping on a bandwagon now, everyone else is increasing their prices so we might as well do the same seems to be the thinking. As usual those in positions of power are focusing on workers and warning everyone about wage price spirals which I completely get, but seems to have ignored good old corporate greed.

[Red-Soldier]

Bank of England boss urges firms to hold back price rises or risk higher rates

Andrew Bailey says interest rates will have to rise again unless inflation falls

The Bank of England governor, Andrew Bailey, has called on businesses to hold back price rises, telling them that interest rates will need to rise again unless inflation falls.

Bailey, who was speaking after the central bank raised its base rate on Thursday to a 14-year high of 4.25% from 4%, said inflation was too high and the central bank would need to take further action unless it began to fall by the summer.

The warning came after the latest official data showed the annual rate of inflation unexpectedly rose to 10.4% in February, from 10.1% in January. The Bank of England’s official inflation target is 2%.

“We’ve got to get inflation down,” he said. “Inflation is too high at the moment. Now we think that it will fall sharply really from the early summer throughout the rest of the year. And we’re pretty confident about that.

“But it hasn’t come down yet and we had some news earlier this week which was a bit higher than we expected it to be, there were probably some temporary factors in there,” he said.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Bailey added: “I would say to people who are setting prices: please understand if we get inflation embedded interest rates will have to go up further,” he said.

“When companies set prices I understand that they have to reflect the costs that they face. But what I would say, please, is that when we are setting prices in the economy and people are looking forwards we do expect inflation to come down sharply this year and I would just say please bear that in mind.”

Last year, Bailey told workers to restrain wage demands or risk further interest rates rises to prevent inflation becoming embedded. His comments caused a storm of protest from trade unions who argued that wage rises were well below inflation and most workers were suffering a sharp decline in their standard of living.

The most recent labour market figures show wages growth in the private sector stalled last November and has remained flat since then.

Asked if he thought companies were profiteering, and pushing prices higher than they needed to, Bailey said he had no evidence to support this concern but wished business owners to consider price restraint.

Research on company accounts by the UK’s largest private sector union, Unite, earlier this month found that large corporations had fuelled inflation with price increases that went beyond rising costs of raw materials and wages.

Highlighting a trend dubbed “greedflation”, analysis of the top 350 companies listed on the London Stock Exchange showed that average profit margins – a company’s revenue above the cost of sales – had risen from 5.7% in the first half of 2019 to 10.7% in the first half of 2022.

Economists have become increasingly concerned that multinational corporations have passed on higher prices to increase profits and improve profit margins, pushing inflation to a level that is not warranted by increases in raw materials or wage rises.

Nestlé and Procter & Gamble are among the big global businesses to increase profits and protect profit margins over the last year.

Responding to Bailey’s remarks, the Unite general secretary, Sharon Graham, said a “lacklustre acknowledgment” by the central bank that companies had played a role in rising prices was a welcome development. But she said the governor had failed to understand “the depth of the profiteering crisis”.

“Andrew Bailey’s lacklustre acknowledgment of the role price rises are having on inflation is a step forward after years of targeting workers,” she said. “However, [he] is still refusing to acknowledge the depth of the crisis. The UK is in the grip of a profiteering epidemic – it is greedflation, not workers’ wages, that is fuelling the cost of living crisis.

“The profits of Britain’s biggest firms have spiked 89%. So to claim that there is no evidence of excessive profiteering just isn’t credible. Policymakers seem determined to remain prisoners of a broken economy. They need to wake up.”

The European Central Bank recently discussed the potential impact of profiteering by companies as a source of inflation, although it has yet to disclose its conclusions.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/24/bank-of-england-boss-urges-firms-to-hold-back-price-rises-or-risk-higher-interest-rates

[PaulF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65056733

'Restaurants already taking a hit'
Reacting to Mr Bailey's warning, Martin Williams, chief executive of Rare Restaurants, which includes the chains Gaucho and M, said that businesses had already been restrained in raising prices.

"If restaurants had reflected the increased 'costs they face' in the past year as Mr Bailey suggests, a simple side salad would be priced at £20," Mr Williams said, adding that beer would be £20 per pint, and a small steak would be £100.

He said restaurant owners had "responsibly tried to balance keeping pricing low, and keeping their businesses viable" while facing surging wage, food and energy bill costs.

Energy bills support for businesses will become less generous from April, with trade group UK Hospitality saying in January that would lead to an 82% rise in bills for firms such as pubs, restaurants and hotels.

"That's going to hit entrepreneurs, start-up businesses incredibly hard," said Mr Williams. "The impact will be the closure of restaurants."

A government spokesperson said it has provided an "unprecedented" energy support package for firms, "and further support from April onwards".

Dan Davies, a managing director at Frontline Analysts who used to work for the Bank, said its strategy for lowering inflation "will bring the economy into balance, but you might not like the way in which that happens".

"All they [the Bank] can do is inflict a bit of economic pain, reduce demand, and hope that it doesn't tip the economy into recession," he said.

[west_london_red]

Ovo energy have introduced a 1 year fixed deal at £2275. Not a great deal if you look at how prices are expected to drop in the second half of the year, but at least it’s a start hopefully to fixed term deals returning.

[Millie]

Ovo energy have introduced a 1 year fixed deal at £2275. Not a great deal if you look at how prices are expected to drop in the second half of the year, but at least it’s a start hopefully to fixed term deals returning.

Yeah I got an email about that.  No way I'm taking it though if prices are continuing to fall.

[west_london_red]

Yeah I got an email about that.  No way I'm taking it though if prices are continuing to fall.

Especially with a £150 exit fee, definitely not worth it but at least someone is testing the water with fixed price deals. Will be interesting to see what happens as it gets closer to the end of June and the price guarantee ends.

[A Red Abroad]

UK energy firms forcibly installed 94,000 prepayment meters last year

Scottish Power, British Gas and Ovo responsible for 70% of forced installations, government says...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/27/uk-energy-firms-forcibly-installed-prepayment-meters

[reddebs]

UK energy firms forcibly installed 94,000 prepayment meters last year

Scottish Power, British Gas and Ovo responsible for 70% of forced installations, government says...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/27/uk-energy-firms-forcibly-installed-prepayment-meters

Course they did.  All they're concerned with is getting their money.  How they do it and the effect it has on their customers is irrelevant.

You've used it so now you'll pay for it is their motto!!

[Nobby Reserve]

Despite wholesale prices now being pretty much the same, fuel forecourt prices for diesel are on average 17p more expensive than petrol.

Fuel retailers (forecourts) are making a margin of around 20p/litre on diesel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65098942


I think at least some of the reason for this is that a lot of commercial vehicles, from 'white vans' to goods vehicles, are diesel. Obviously a proportion of these (especially HGV's) will have their own filling up facilities. But your everyday vans and SGV's won't. A lot of these will be vehicles belonging to a company and the drivers issued with a fuel card, meaning the detailed fuel costs (ie, per-litre) get absorbed into company accounts

The problem is that these companies will see a bloated overall fuel bill and add the cost onto the price it charges for its services/goods. That means higher goods prices for the general public.

Again, this is a national con. And the market is failing, given the whiff of price-fixing (ie, that they're all scooping the higher margin and none are reducing their margins to hoover up volume)

[stewil007]

Round my way in the midlands, there are 3 garages in close proximity - Tesco, Esso and Shell and the difference in unleaded and diesel is between 23p and 30p a litre.  Its nuts, it really is.

[.adam]

Especially with a £150 exit fee, definitely not worth it but at least someone is testing the water with fixed price deals. Will be interesting to see what happens as it gets closer to the end of June and the price guarantee ends.

I'm on the Octopus Tracker Tariff which tracks the daily wholesale rate of gas.

It has been steadily falling over the past three months. I'd expect it to continue falling.

[spen71]

Spain’s inflation down to 3.3%.  Ours is still over 10%    How is this possible?

[reddebs]

Round my way in the midlands, there are 3 garages in close proximity - Tesco, Esso and Shell and the difference in unleaded and diesel is between 23p and 30p a litre.  Its nuts, it really is.

All the small independents on the island are around 10p cheaper per litre than the supermarkets.  Even the Elstar and Texaco ones.

What price are people paying for diesel now in England?  I think last time I was in Yorkshire it was still around 15p a litre more expensive than here.

I've just paid 149.9p.

[Nobby Reserve]

Spain’s inflation down to 3.3%.  Ours is still over 10%    How is this possible?

Price gouging

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/17/its-not-pay-claims-that-are-driving-up-prices-in-britain-its-profits
https://www.unitetheunion.org/media/4757/unite-investigates-corporate-profiteering-and-the-col-crisis.pdf


Several months ago, when petrol/diesel forecourt prices were up towards £2/litre and newspapers were actually looking into this, they found by refineries and retailers had hiked their margins 2x/3x/4x above the norm. When they questioned the refineries/retailers, the reaction was basically a shrug and a 'we lost money during Covid as demand dropped, so we're lining our pockets now'

https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/business/fuel-prices-oil-refinery-profit-cma-b2118941.html

Begs the question: where were the Tory farmers and lorry drivers blockading the refineries last summer, when it was profiteering private companies driving up prices and a Tory government in power, not a Labour government putting a penny or two on fuel duty that's spent on bettering society?

[stewil007]

All the small independents on the island are around 10p cheaper per litre than the supermarkets.  Even the Elstar and Texaco ones.

What price are people paying for diesel now in England?  I think last time I was in Yorkshire it was still around 15p a litre more expensive than here.

I've just paid 149.9p.

Diesel still around 168 - 172
Unleaded is 138 - 143

[A Red Abroad]

All the small independents on the island are around 10p cheaper per litre than the supermarkets.  Even the Elstar and Texaco ones.

What price are people paying for diesel now in England?  I think last time I was in Yorkshire it was still around 15p a litre more expensive than here.

I've just paid 149.9p.

Which island Debs? Anglesey?



Just for info (if anyone cares) I paid €1.783 for diesel yesterday (that's euros).

(A quick conversion makes it £1.569 - so you're doing better than here in rural France).

[reddebs]

Diesel still around 168 - 172
Unleaded is 138 - 143

That difference has been like that since around September/October last year. 

My niece came to us for New Year's Eve and filled her car up as petrol was 23p cheaper than where she lives near Southport.

Which island Debs? Anglesey?



Just for info (if anyone cares) I paid €1.783 for diesel yesterday (that's euros).

(A quick conversion makes it £1.569 - so you're doing better than here in rural France).

Yeah on Anglesey mate.

[A Red Abroad]

That difference has been like that since around September/October last year. 

My niece came to us for New Year's Eve and filled her car up as petrol was 23p cheaper than where she lives near Southport.

Yeah on Anglesey mate.

 

[paulrazor]

still seeing a steady drop

£555 for 900 litres heating oil. 10 cheaper than last week

159.9 for diesel, but crossed the border and paid that in euro, 5 cent drop from last week

up to Ukraine invasion that was the dearest I have seen so its back to that now

still thin kit should be at least £50 cheaper for oil

diesel about 30 pence or cent cheaper per litre

[reddebs]

still seeing a steady drop

£555 for 900 litres heating oil. 10 cheaper than last week

159.9 for diesel, but crossed the border and paid that in euro, 5 cent drop from last week

up to Ukraine invasion that was the dearest I have seen so its back to that now

still thin kit should be at least £50 cheaper for oil

diesel about 30 pence or cent cheaper per litre

Down to £662 for 1000ltrs here now from £710 a week ago 👍

[paulrazor]

nice, good steady drop, long may it continue

oil bosses might only get a 6m bonus while their company will have to get by on a one billion profit

[Elmo!]

I know we're losing the government subsidy but having built up over £300 or credit over the winter, just been told my payments will still be going up by another tenner a month just as we go into summer and usage will drop massively.

[reddebs]

nice, good steady drop, long may it continue

oil bosses might only get a 6m bonus while their company will have to get by on a one billion profit

Heaven forbid they might have to go without mate 🤷

[reddebs]

I know we're losing the government subsidy but having built up over £300 or credit over the winter, just been told my payments will still be going up by another tenner a month just as we go into summer and usage will drop massively.

We're the same with the electric mate.  We've got over £90 credit, currently pay £90 a mth and they keep telling me I need to be paying over £100.

No I don't!!

Had a nice surprise with my council tax bill earlier though as I'm £340 in credit on that.  I'm used to paying it over 12mths where here it's over 10mths so I've paid 2mths more than I needed to 😁

[fowlermagic]

Still remember just before 9/11 a gallon was just over a $1. Now that was crazy cheap but within a few days of that tragedy the prices quadrupled i think. Serious price gauging was going on, some people were fined but low and behold prices rarely dropped below even $2 again and now probably are back to quadrupled what you paid in 2000.

That was the States and from that time it just tells me companies will jack up the rates to cover their asses, the consumer just sucks it up and eventually we accept those hiked up rates. I fully expect my 2024 electricity bill to be at least 50% higher than my bills from two years ago as the energy companies will have one excuse after another while still recording piracy profits.

[west_london_red]

I know we're losing the government subsidy but having built up over £300 or credit over the winter, just been told my payments will still be going up by another tenner a month just as we go into summer and usage will drop massively.

Who are you with? I’m in about £700 credit so cut my direct debit by £100 a month and no issues with Octopus at all.