Topic: A Right Kick Up The Arse

[NickoH]

We also missed Alves.

We can't miss a player we've never had...........

[bloodrush]

I don't remember, but the game was over by then.

And Gerrard wasn't trying to pass to Bellamy, he was having a shot, so it would have been a lucky goal anyway.

We were well beaten, let's face it.

Sure, but don't want to under-estimate the importance of netting for future confidence, especially considering current form from forward players!

[KingKolo]

We can't miss a player we've never had...........

Don't you see what I'm saying though?
If Benitez had been given more to spend, we would have brought in Alves.

That means he thinks he needs the player to mount a credible title challenge.

[CalvinMalteseRed]

Arsenal's potential is frightening IMO.

[Reds Turkish Delight]

Mr Paul Tomkins once again you've written a brilliant article that makes me take a step back and look at the situation and think about it. You've made me feel a little bit of better thanks to your analysis. 

[AnthonySmith]

Don't you see what I'm saying though?
If Benitez had been given more to spend, we would have brought in Alves.

That means he thinks he needs the player to mount a credible title challenge.

He had a fair bit of money to spend in the summer and blew it on players that were neva up to the task (pennant )

[KingKolo]

He had a fair bit of money to spend in the summer and blew it on players that were neva up to the task (pennant )

It's not that simple.

We needed an option for the right-side, and the most we could afford was Pennant.
Sure, he's not justifying his Ł6.8m rising to Ł8m price-tag, but he's the best we could get with the money we had.

The same goes for Bellamy.
Benitez wanted to bring in Bent or Defoe, but Bellamy was the most we could get with our limited budget.

Sure, Kuyt cost Ł10m and that money could have gone on bringing in Bent and Alves instead of Bellamy and Pennant, but wouldn't you agree that so far Benitez seems to be right to make Kuyt a priority?

[Robbo1980]

Think Kuyt is very good, yeah he lacks pace but if we get the ball in the right areas then he will score goals.
We are crossing from areas of the pitch where it is nigh on impossible to score a goal from, our best chances yesterday came from crosses that were on or near the byline, Kuyt to crouch and Pennant when he did very well and crossed back to Gerrard, we are putting too many crosses from deep position in for me, i like Finnan but he is guilty of this a lot as are Riise and Gerrard.
Too many long balls that are isolating our players, therefor we are not making 3 or 4 quick passes to create an opening either for a full back or winger to get a cross.
man Utd are superb at this, they play 3 or 4 passes and then Neville or Ronaldo have aches of space to create something, we are too direct in our approach IMO, Alonso is IMO guilty of playing to many long passes, yes they normally find the man but how often will the reciever have players around him to give the ball to?
Kuyt is ideal in the way he drops off the front to recieve the ball, it means Alonso has to play less long balls and it means we can get more players in advanced areas to stop them being isolated.
IMO we are playing as individuals, Arsenal, Man UTD and Chelsea play as a team

[harrytrow]

An observation in our passing yesterday, was that many of our long passes were to a man who was isolated and then recieved little support. Players forever having to turn back to give players a chance to get up and support.
In contrast the speed of Arsenal players arriving to support the player with the ball and give him options was really noticeable.
There's still players who deliver a pass and that's the end of. There aren't enough like Luis who will be looking for interplay and one twos etc

[Robbo1980]

I have said pretty much that directly above Harry.

I like Alonso, although i do think his best season was his 1st which coincided with us playing a 5 man midfield as it covers his lack of mobility, but i do prefer it when he is making us tick with short passes like Hamman used to do rather than playing 50 yard passes which invaribly find there man but result in nothing due to the reciever being isolated from his team mates.

[walshys_mullet]

An observation in our passing yesterday, was that many of our long passes were to a man who was isolated and then recieved little support. Players forever having to turn back to give players a chance to get up and support.
In contrast the speed of Arsenal players arriving to support the player with the ball and give him options was really noticeable.
There's still players who deliver a pass and that's the end of. There aren't enough like Luis who will be looking for interplay and one twos etc

thats because this team is scared to move, scared to gamble, scared to overlap, scared to get into the box.

[Notayesman]

He had a fair bit of money to spend in the summer and blew it on players that were neva up to the task (pennant )

Bollox, how the fuck do you know if he's not up to the task when he's only in the door and surrounded by senior players playing like fucking grannies! Pennant came on yesterday and actually did one or two things, which Gerrard managed in the whole 90, Carra was dodgy again and Sami put us on the back foot for the second goal with a piss weak pass after a good spell in possession, Zenden, Finnan and Riise didn't do nearly enough. Blaming the new guys is lazy. People say we needed a goal scorer well I dunno if you've been watching but we bought one and he has a pretty good record, he's the blonde dutch lad. Not his fault he's not getting service though.

[Scouse Mouse]

Although both teams benefited from some poor decisions yesterday, it was the Reds who were hit the hardest. To me, Flamini looked marginally ahead of Carragher, in an almost identical goal to the one Peter Crouch (who was admittedly a full yard offside) had earlier seen ruled out. Bellamy's strike with ten minutes to go would probably have been a mere consolation, but my point is that it was the only onside goal of the three; and as Flamini's was the opening goal it was the most crucial.

Carragher should have seen a second yellow card at 2-0, so that was some recompense, but in these away games getting the first goal is paramount, especially with the Reds' confidence low away from Anfield. The first goal shapes the game. "Liverpool played well but the first goal was very important," said Wenger.

Someone must have pointed this out already, but Flamini was behind Fabregas when he played the ball. I've also looked at Bellamy's "goal" a few times, and I think he might well have been marginally offside. Crouch was obviously offside, so I don't know why his "goal" is mentioned at all.

The only really bad decision yesterday was the failure to send Carra off, and far from being a mere "consolation", that could have been a heaven-sent for us. Unfortunately, we didn't have the wherewithall to capitalise on it. That's the thing with "luck" in football--it only counts if you make it count. Just imagine if we were winning 1 or 2 nil against one of our supposed rivals, and one of their most important players stays on the pitch when he should have been sent off, and they go on to get a draw or a win. This website would be clogged with people claiming we were robbed by officials again.

As for the first goal being all important, the problem is that our confidence is so low away from home we can't recover from going a goal down in these games. If we had scored first, either against Arsenal or Man Utd, the feeling is they would have had a comeback in them. We don't at the moment.

Said it yesterday and I feel as if it should be said again now: what this club needs more than anything else is money  .  .  and lots of it.

Bullshit. We spent as much as anybody in the close season, and if anything it's made us worse.

What's the answer - no idea ( if I knew I'd be telling Rafa), but I do know that certain key players are just generally off form, Gerrard, Carragher, Alonso - they all went to the World cup and suffered disappointment - co-incidence?.

Again, bullshit. How many of Utd, Chelsea, and Arsenal's players went to the world cup and suffered "disappointment"? Two of the most improved players in the league this year are Drogba and Saha. One didn't get out of his group at the world cup, and the other couldn't break into his team, got suspended for the final, and then watched the guy who was playing instead of him miss the crucial penalty for the the World Cup itself.

[nm83]

Good article Paul, but agree with others tho that 1st goal wasn't offside.  Touch and go but I think it was harsh for Bellamy's goal to be dis-allowed.
Confidence really does seem to be a bit of a problem.  There really don't ever seem to be any forward passing options in away games with so many passes going backwards or sideways.  Arsenal's pressing meant passes were always hurried and it's something we should have been doing too.
While I back Rafa, I would like to see a more settled side until we start winning the away games.  I'd like to see Agger in for Sami.  Gerrard, in Momo's absence should play middle of the park.  If Rafa insists on playing Zenden, then keep him on the left.  I agree with some of the views that Pennant should hug the touchline more.  He's at his best taking on people wide and supplying crosses, but not from deep.
Kuyt has been and will be a great signing, but again is pinging too many shots from distance ... hardly surprising yesterday as we didn't seem to have any penetration to even get near a shooting chance in Arsenal's box.
Unfortunately, I also agree that title looks out of the question now, but hey, we've still got to push up and get into the CL again, so come on lads !!!  Trickier away ties now over, let's get that vital away win at 'Boro and get our season started.

[rednich85]

Bellamys goal wasnt a harsh decision, he was offside, unless we expect the lino to give us a sympathy goal? or a goal to boost Bellamys confidence?

Yesterdays performance was promising for first 25 mins however Arsenal looked to be on a different planet from liverpool, I would be suprised if liverpool strung 5 passes together (in Arsenals half)

I always try and take positives but after yesterdays match I am really deflated

Hearing the same stuff after each abject away performance (Bar Chelsea) is starting to get to me

Maybe I set my hopes too high at the begining of the season?

The worst thing is not the result in these games, its the performances, heartless, gutless, spineless all come to mind

Come on Liverpool!

Things can only improve and I have no doubt they will, The European cup is our best bet

(sorry if this post is a bit Jeykl and Hyde)

[nm83]

i think everyone was hoping for a stronger challenge than this.  Seemed reasonable after how strongly we finished last year.

[TipTopKop]

Just imagine if we were winning 1 or 2 nil against one of our supposed rivals, and one of their most important players stays on the pitch when he should have been sent off, and they go on to get a draw or a win. This website would be clogged with people claiming we were robbed by officials again.

Agreed. Actually I thought the ref was good to us, and couldn't fault him to the point of 'costing us the game'.

Bullshit. We spent as much as anybody in the close season, and if anything it's made us worse.

...I don't know. I think the investment other clubs have made, may not necessarily reflect in the past close season alone. Rather it is a sustained investment over a number of years.

Rafa Benitez has on more than one ocassion stated that while money does not guarantee success, it will no doubt make life easier for the manager.

We all know of the rumoured 1st options Rafa wanted, but ultimately couldn't afford, and we had to settle for the players we have. Not to say the players we have are rubbish, but things could have been better.

Arsenal have a new stadium, the Mancs just upped their capacity to 75,000 or whatever, and Chelsea have an unlimited supply of players replacing other top players.

We will always come to this painful conclusion of us 'not being good enough' or signing 'mediocre players', by swimming upstream and not being active enough to seek investments.

[Fred Madison]

We also missed Alves.

Think it's only fair to say we also missed Messi, Ronaldinho, Henry and Joaquin, although they haven't been exactly setting the place alight recently for us either.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

I thought Bellamy's goal was onside - looked to me like Clichy (I think) was playing him on by the touchline. But it would be clutching at straws to think that a bad decision by the linesman was the sole reason for our downfall yesterday.

IMO, the squad at the moment has the look of a square peg in a round hole. A slight tactical switch would possibly bring us some rewards as it would allow some of the lads to play their natural game. I posted something similar to this after a previous defeat and I stand by my argument that we should adopt a 3-5-2 formation, and here are my reasons why;

3 at the back - Carragher, Hyypia and Agger - would have a natural right and left-footer either side of the defensive 'rock'

5 in the middle - Finnan, Gerrard, Sissoko, Alonso and Riise - now I know Momo is out for a while, but under ideal circumstances you would get the 2 wide men, Finnan and Riise, who can bomb forward and put crosses in and also track back and provide defensive support. Then you have Momo just in front of Sami soaking up the pressure, with Stevie and Xabi able to create chances and drive forward. Upfront, pick your 2 - I would go with Crouch and Kuyt, as they do play together better than any other combination of strikers we have, intelligent movement off the ball and an awareness of where the other is when they do have the ball.

I just don't see 4-4-2 as being the way forward, as teams appear to have sussed us out and know how to negate our tactics. Plus the infuriating trend to pass the ball backwards when we are in promising positions has to be eradicated, it seems as if whenever we get past the halfway line we're almost afraid to go any further forward. The only reason teams can do this is because we sit far too deep in our own half at times when we need to be really pressing forward and harassing our opponents. Trying to change our game to suit the other team's style of play will get us nowhere; we need to show them who's the boss, home or away, and make them walk off the pitch knowing that they've just played against Liverpool. If something isn't changed soon, god only knows where we might end up at the end of the season. I shudder to think.

[Fred Madison]

Think it's only fair to say we also missed Messi, Ronaldinho, Henry and Joaquin, although they haven't been exactly setting the place alight recently for us either.

Not to mention how fuckin' bad Ibrahimovic has been playin' for us. Sometimes it's like he didn't even bother to show up.

[Scouse Mouse]

...I don't know. I think the investment other clubs have made, may not necessarily reflect in the past close season alone. Rather it is a sustained investment over a number of years.

Rafa Benitez has on more than one ocassion stated that while money does not guarantee success, it will no doubt make life easier for the manager.

We all know of the rumoured 1st options Rafa wanted, but ultimately couldn't afford, and we had to settle for the players we have. Not to say the players we have are rubbish, but things could have been better.

Arsenal have a new stadium, the Mancs just upped their capacity to 75,000 or whatever, and Chelsea have an unlimited supply of players replacing other top players.

We will always come to this painful conclusion of us 'not being good enough' or signing 'mediocre players', by swimming upstream and not being active enough to seek investments.

That's all true. But this thread is about analysing the reasons why we lost yesterday, and the "we need investment" stuff looks like an excuse to me. We were far more consistent than Arsenal last year, and very close to Man Utd. If those two teams had spent tons of cash last Summer, while Rafa was hung out to dry, that might explain things. But it just isn't the case. The board backed the manager as much as he could possibly have wanted.

To me, the board, Parry, referees, luck, "world cup fatigue"... They're all just excuses, and they don't explain why we've seemingly taken a step backwards from last season.

[nm83]

it's a curse ... a curse i tell ya !!!

[TipTopKop]

That's all true. But this thread is about analysing the reasons why we lost yesterday, and the "we need investment" stuff looks like an excuse to me. We were far more consistent than Arsenal last year, and very close to Man Utd. If those two teams had spent tons of cash last Summer, while Rafa was hung out to dry, that might explain things. But it just isn't the case. The board backed the manager as much as he could possibly have wanted.

To me, the board, Parry, referees, luck, "world cup fatigue"... They're all just excuses, and they don't explain why we've seemingly taken a step backwards from last season.

Hmmmm...  well, if it's about yesterday's loss, I'm afraid I'm still scratching my head at that one, I mean I looked at the lineup just before kick off, and with the 4-4-2 formation and I thought "wow, looks like we're going to have a go, we may do something here...." and then sadly, the whole thing fell flat on it's face.

I'm just annoyed that for all the 'negative' jibes Fergie and Maureen used to level at us last season, we defended as a team and scored as a team, and it got under our opponents and some pundits skin no end.

This season, it's seems like we're a bunch of 'individuals', not sure if it's a worse or better thing, but clearly the solidity at the back is not there, and neither is the will to plough ahead and go forwards...  24 hours and it's still feels just as bad.

[GBF]

Don't you see what I'm saying though?
If Benitez had been given more to spend, we would have brought in Alves.

That means he thinks he needs the player to mount a credible title challenge.

I thought similar things have been said to Gonzo....how can you judge a player who never played in the Premier....spain is totally different

what we lack is consistency....we have a good enough team to be top of the league...but we cant do the simple footballing stuff every week

[walshys_mullet]

firstly as much as people are annoyed Bellamys goal was onside, clichy played him on down by the corner flag.

Also even though Carra should have been carded for his second challenge and off, i think he got away with it primarily because Clattenburg realised how harsh it was to have booked him for the initial challenge on Henry, which was a nothing tackle.

Funniest moment for me was Xabi on toure, toure going down holding his leg, getting up, and legging the referee protesting, then two minutes later keeling over injured to get treatment.

Just shows you how many puffs are in the prem.

[jamiehill]

The first game of the season was not the start that anybody wanted.
A draw against a newly promoted club.

Our lack of form resulted from the double injuries to key defenders. We lost 50% of our defence in the first game. I am sure that if it wasn't for the injuries to Riise and Carragher on the first day we would have won that game comfortably.

This would have given us more confidence in the next games to be able to build up a run of form.

The league is certainly not over yet though!

[Redrider]

Is changing the team affecting confidence, or is the team having to be changed because of low confidence? For instance, is Carragher playing well below his usual standards because of a changing team? Well, it's no different to the last two seasons.

When confidence is low, and the problems become as much psychological as anything, it affects all areas of the team's play, and confuses matters. Had the Reds taken the lead yesterday, it might have been Arsenal's fragile home confidence that crumbled. Instead, it was our fragile away confidence that fell apart, albeit after the killer second goal. When Arsenal don't get the first goal at home they struggle; when they do get it, they know they tend to go on to win comfortably.

Lack of confidence is playing a huge part at the moment :
When Liverpool players are quoted, mid week saying that 'scoring the first goal is important' then that says a lot about their fragile belief !

Liverpool have either matched or bettered all the teams they have played away, this season, up until the point when the first goal was scored. Then they visibly lost it 'in the head', no more so than on Sunday.

[Alf]

We've had our 5 most difficult away games of the season and we played at Sheff Utd at the worst time we could have played them. But 1 point from 18 on the road and no goals from open play is disgraceful. The only positive I can take from that is things can only get better.

[mctavish]

We've had our 5 most difficult away games of the season and we played at Sheff Utd at the worst time we could have played them. But 1 point from 18 on the road and no goals from open play is disgraceful. The only positive I can take from that is things can only get better.

Not quite true. they could get worse; just imagine if we lose at Middlesbrough.

[ac]

I've finally stopped kicking the cat, and only now it occurs to me that I don't actually have one. So now I'm depressed, and my distraught neighbour will have the RSPCA on my case. Great...

I'd be surprised if Bolo Zenden plays too many games in the centre in place of Gerrard during Sissoko's lay-off, but away at Arsenal, where Thierry Henry drifts to the left wing and Clichy and van Persie can be dangerous, there was some logic there.

The Red Review, Red Revival and Golden Past, Red Future are all still available, including as part of various Christmas package deals[/i]

If that was the manager's reasoning then I dont agree with it. Gerrard is not the best defensively in the centre, but he is a damn sight better denfensively than Zenden in this respect, not only in terms of tackling, but aggression and physical presence. Cut of Henry's supply from the probing passes of their CENTRAL midfield play maker -Fabregas, then you nullify much of Arsenals attacking potency. Pennant - who i believe should have played wide right -has been relatively poor but he is a far better player than Zenden.

Agree with the third poster in the first page who mentioned that Benitez should focus a set way of play for us and less on the opposition. Like Scouse mouse has said, world cup fatigue, disappointment, arent convincing factors. Management and key existing players from last season should shoulder most of the blame.

[steve bic]

Having read this thread from start to finish & tonights Echo it shows that none of us no the answer to the current problems along with Rafa.Lets just fuckin hope it gets sorted by Saturday,as everyone has said there are alot of different factors,but the most alarming for me is the lack of endevour & fight when we go 1 goal down.

[Kop4]

Sorry to disagree Paul, but that article is worthy of a .TV apologist.  Rafa is clearly entrenched and inviting pressure on himself.  To play Zenden in midfield is saying to SG 'you are the 4th choice centre midfielder'.  To Pennant it says 'SG is a better right winger' .......... so why buy him, if all last season he said RM / LM was a priority?

The whole spine of the team, (either chosen or bought by Rafa) lacked any pace whatsoever.  No midfielders supporting attack, and non back tracking in defence (cf goals 1 and 2).  And if West Ham can grasp closing down Fabregas is a must, why can't we?

It was a game I never felt we would win................ the scoreline was not a true reflection. It was.  4-0 would not have flattered. 4 pts in 27 against the top 3 now.

Although both teams benefited from some poor decisions yesterday, it was the Reds who were hit the hardest. To me, Flamini looked marginally ahead of Carragher.............?  Straws and grasping.

There have been little slip-ups here and there, ............?

Then there's the inconsistent form of nearly all of the new boys, and that includes the impressive Kuyt, whose inconsistency so far is down to the fact that he's been sublime at home ............. ? Sublime?  Functional maybe.

Gerrard on the right is such a huge issue again, but most of the time he's allowed to drift from there, in the way the three best players of recent years – Ronaldinho, Zidane and Figo – ..............!!!!  SG is not in the same league as the first two.

Benítez brought three quick players of his own this summer: Bellamy, Gonzalez and Pennant. The problem has been getting them into the line-up together. .............?  No problem, Rafa's choice.

All three also have to cope with not being one of the first names on the teamsheet, as they were at their previous clubs. I have no problem with any of the new signings in principle..........?  Not in principle??? Then what is your problem with them???  Perhaps too many 'Maybe' players a la Hansen?

Then there's the loss of Momo Sissoko, ......one of the quickest players at the club?  Quick??  No no no

It now needs something positive to happen away from home, and preferably next weekend at Boro – a distinctly winnable game. Indeed, the next eleven league games are all distinctly winnable; but it needs a break in the pattern away from Anfield ?  Understated to .tv perfection.

© Paul Tomkins 2006

The release date of An Anfield Anthology has been brought forward to December 8th, in time for Christmas. It is available to pre-order from www.paultomkins.com – the only place it will be available.

The Red Review, Red Revival and Golden Past, Red Future are all still available, including as part of various Christmas package deals

[Kop4]

If that was the manager's reasoning then I dont agree with it. Gerrard is not the best defensively in the centre, but he is a damn sight better denfensively than Zenden in this respect, not only in terms of tackling, but aggression and physical presence. Cut of Henry's supply from the probing passes of their CENTRAL midfield play maker -Fabregas, then you nullify much of Arsenals attacking potency. Pennant - who i believe should have played wide right -has been relatively poor but he is a far better player than Zenden.

Agree with the third poster in the first page who mentioned that Benitez should focus a set way of play for us and less on the opposition. Like Scouse mouse has said, world cup fatigue, disappointment, arent convincing factors. Management and key existing players from last season should shoulder most of the blame.

Have to agree.

[terrymacstash]

Reds now 100-1 to win the thing. Well worth a fiver if you ask me!

[Kop4]

Reds now 100-1 to win the thing. Well worth a fiver if you ask me!

Welcome to RAWK terrymactash ........... if not quite planet Earth!

Even I would spend my fiver on beer now, and I backed them in August at 8-1.

[woof]

A believe luck accounts for alot of things.  For 40minutes yesterday it was going to be a nil nil. Than again we conceed just before half time. If you lool at the stats??, its not very often a top 4 side loses at home having taken the lead. The first goal is crucial.  If the goal had been given offside or Henry two tackes in the 37 & 38th had both been bookings(Like they should have been) who knows.   There is such a fine margin between winning and losing.  I have said all along that if we can be within 8 points at christmas, who knows..

I believe the first goal shook us up. Right until then, we were putting in a competent display and almost got away with a goal. Arsenal may have dominated play in the first part of the first half, we certainly matched their ambition in the latter half before the goal. We created well and then when dispossessed, Arsenal punished us on the break with a clinical goal. I think then, the players' already fragile mental state was shattered beyond repair.

What's happening? Someone needs to stand up and fire up the players when the chips are down. I remember Didi doing that when he came on at half time at Istanbul. Perhaps Gerrard the captain or Carra should do that to remind the team that football is a game of two halves. Perhaps Rafa should have put a rocket under their arses. We need to create a belief that we too can cut it with the best. For god's sake, we are the European champs 2 seasons ago.

[woof]

The whole spine of the team, (either chosen or bought by Rafa) lacked any pace whatsoever.  No midfielders supporting attack, and non back tracking in defence (cf goals 1 and 2).  And if West Ham can grasp closing down Fabregas is a must, why can't we?

Defensively, we are a pale shadow of the team which conceded 25 goals last season. I observed that as a team, we do not press opposition players as much as we did. One of the most obvious changes when Rafa took over the mantle 2 seasons ago was that every time the opposition has possession of the ball, our players worked hard to get it back. That means pressing them and turning up the pressure. Unfortunately, we are the receiving end now especially against the better teams bar Chelsea (who wouldn't give the fuck). I see Man U and to some extent, Arsenal doing that. It's time we did more of that or is fatigue a problem??

You are right, we are not shutting down players like we used to

[Barenco Saragih]

viuwh.... should boro make the first goal to beat us..
i think carra n agger more effective at defensive line..
btw, its three defender goal, dammed...!!

[Buster 'Hook Hand' Bluth]

Then there's the inconsistent form of nearly all of the new boys, and that includes the impressive Kuyt, whose inconsistency so far is down to the fact that he's been sublime at home ............. Huh? Sublime?  Functional maybe.

Then there's the loss of Momo Sissoko, ......one of the quickest players at the club?Huh  Quick??  No no no

Sissoko not quick? What drugs are you on?

Also, if Kuyt scoring five league goals in five starts at Anfield is merely functional, then what hope does any striker in world football have of being better than half-decent in your eyes?

[northwilts]

Gooner here. Take heart fella. You're the only team to come and play rather than throw a 9-0-1 formation in front of us, and you're right, 3-0 was a harsh judgement on your performance. Maybe that says something about Benitez' tactical awareness? Hope  you claw it back like we did last season. I'm sure you will. Cheers.