Topic: Masters of the Air - HBO Series

[thejbs]

My thoughts exactly.  And why, if there's a fight, do they make us look like queensbury rules chumps who then get knocked out with one punch?  Is there any need for this?

I remember reading an article years ago where a RAF WWII veteran was giving out about their portrayal as toffs in movies. He said most of the lads were working class with strong regional accents.

Another episode and I still don’t care much for this show.

[Dench57]

Starting to think this is a bit shit. Novelty of the air scenes has worn off. Lads landing in Belgium was an interesting sub-plot, hope that's going somewhere. Let's do Great Escape! Majority of characters just aren't interesting to me.

Spoiler

Do hope Austin Butler is actually dead though. No shade on the guy but feel he was terribly mis-cast in this.

[close]

[thejbs]

Starting to think this is a bit shit. Novelty of the air scenes has worn off. Lads landing in Belgium was an interesting sub-plot, hope that's going somewhere. Let's do Great Escape! Majority of characters just aren't interesting to me.

Spoiler

Do hope Austin Butler is actually dead though. No shade on the guy but feel he was terribly mis-cast in this.

[close]

Spoiler

As this show features real people, you can find your answer if you want to google. I think they made his fate pretty obvious, to be honest.

[close]

[Qston]

Pretty much my take. In Band of Brothers, the group who started at Currahee run through the series with some being lost and some recruits joining (Replacements). But they aren't just repeating the same battle, they deal with different scales of conflict, with different viewpoints, and for me, the main point is that in BoB they have agency. The last episode of Masters I watched kind of made the point for me. They are having a party because one crew has completed 25 missions and is going home and the general take on how to complete 25 missions is "be lucky".

Basically, if you're a crew member in a B-17 you do your job as best you can, but when fighters attack you or you fly through flak, it's luck and sheer weight of numbers that might get you through each mission.  If you have a successful mission it's actually boring from the bomber's point of view - the 'win' takes place thousands of feet below with tons of high explosive  blowing up munitions factories and civilian workers. So the drama is all about the flak/fighter/bomber interactions and things going pear-shaped.

With BoB, all I need to do is see the episode titles and it brings it all back: Currahee; Day of Days; Carentan; Replacements; Crossroads (possibly my favourite episode - I hear the sound of running boots and see the face of the young German soldier just from that one word title); Bastogne; The Breaking Point; The Last Patrol; Why We Fight; Points.

I completely agree on the episode point. By far the best TV series I have ever watched. I read the book years ago off the back of it and have even visited some of the towns/areas depicted in it.

I am only a couple of episodes in, and I understand that it is more difficult to produce episodes that are dramatically different given the source material. I am enjoying it to the extent that it is still better than most dramas on TV and it does highlight the claustrophobia and the inability to avoid danger.

I just hope they highlight the fact that the British bomber command had the highest mortality rate of any of the armed services and they did more than their fair share having learned the hard way about daytime raids.

I agree on the shouts about the way the "typical brit" is portrayed in these things as most of the crews were from very diverse backgrounds. I suspect the way the americans are portrayed in this probably isn`t that close to reality either.

[thejbs]

At least the Americans are shown to be from all over the country. And there are some working class accents in there.

[Graeme]

It's a strange one. Some of the air battle scenes have been good, but just haven't warmed to any of the characters. I start watching an episode and I'm thinking to myself were some of these people in the previous episode because if they were my brain completely disregarded them.

[Dench57]

Basically, if you're a crew member in a B-17 you do your job as best you can, but when fighters attack you or you fly through flak, it's luck and sheer weight of numbers that might get you through each mission.  If you have a successful mission it's actually boring from the bomber's point of view - the 'win' takes place thousands of feet below with tons of high explosive  blowing up munitions factories and civilian workers. So the drama is all about the flak/fighter/bomber interactions and things going pear-shaped.

It's partly why I think they should've picked a different title to "Masters of the Air" too. I understand they didn't sustain the same losses as Bomber Command but it was still a fucking meat grinder up there in the earlier sorties. A small point perhaps but the title edges too close to glorification for me.

On the other hand, they are making a bold narrative choice in dropping characters every week. Similar to The Pacific when compared to BoB, they must've decided when writing the show that it wouldn't be realistic to have a core group who you stayed with from beginning to end as you did with Winters, Nixon etc in BoB. So they made the creative choice to reflect that reality - characters you grew to know and like just gone in the blink of an eye - as it was. Historically accurate but makes the show less compelling from a purely narrative point of view. It might be that this series has the same issue, though it does force you to reflect even more on the real human cost that underpins the story they're trying to tell, beyond the whizz bang aerial sequences.

[Brian Blessed]

Elvis is in it.

I doubt they have black people in it.

[Party Phil]

I haven't seen a single second of the show yet as I'm waiting to binge watch it once all episodes are available.

A few thoughts about the title, as it's been mentioned a couple of times:
1. It's the title of the main book that the series is based on, so it's not that they made it up for the series.
2. The 8th Air Force and Bomber Command both had a huge impact on the war and both took an absolute pasting in terms of casualties and I don't think the title is really intended to put one on a pedestal over the other.
3. The bombing effort, especially from mid 1943 (Pointblank directive) onwards, was absolutely instrumental in decimating the Luftwaffe and achieving complete allied air supremacy over
Western Europe by the time of the Normandy landings. The 8th Air Force was particularly important in this as, apart trying to precision bomb ball bearing factories etc. instead of a area bombing like the Brits, they flew in the daytime with fighter escort and acted as bait for the Luftwaffe fighters to be picked off, to the point of extermination, by the P-51 Mustang escorts. From 1944 onwards they could basically bomb anywhere in the Reich with almost no opposition except for the remaining anti aircraft batteries. So the guys up there in B-17s in 1942 probably didn't feel like masters of the air at all whilst they were getting smashed by flak and enemy fighters, thinking they were not going to make it back alive, but by the end of the war, I'm sure they absolutely did feel like masters of the air and it was largely their efforts prior to that which were key to making that happen.

[Party Phil]

I forgot to add:

4. "Masters of the Air" sounds cooler than "Yanks in tin cans shitting themselves whilst Nazis try to kill them"

[Qston]

I forgot to add:

4. "Masters of the Air" sounds cooler than "Yanks in tin cans shitting themselves whilst Nazis try to kill them"

   (although pretty accurate and an accompany piece to Germans in underwater tin cans shitting themselves when depth charges go off around them or a ship is trying to ram them)

[Party Phil]

  (although pretty accurate and an accompany piece to Germans in underwater tin cans shitting themselves when depth charges go off around them or a ship is trying to ram them)

Is that the alternative title for Das Boot?

[meady1981]

I know it’s completely not their fault, but something about the dynamics of them fighting the war in the air hasn’t made for a gripping entertainment series. There’s some interesting bits, but there’s no cohesiveness to keep me interested with the weekly release. It’s fine I guess. It definitely helped you connect with the characters in the other two with their interviews at the beginning so obviously this is missing out on that.

[Dench57]

I know it’s completely not their fault, but something about the dynamics of them fighting the war in the air hasn’t made for a gripping entertainment series. There’s some interesting bits, but there’s no cohesiveness to keep me interested with the weekly release.

There's just not much of a dramatic arc compared to what we followed on the other two shows. The bombing campaign was never gonna match up to the drama of D-Day landings and retaking Europe in particular, so I think they needed to do better with the character stuff on the ground. More stuff with the commanders or the mechanics perhaps. Every mission is basically fly somewhere, get shot to fuck, either die or return and do the same again until the war ends.

[Schmarn]

There's just not much of a dramatic arc compared to what we followed on the other two shows. The bombing campaign was never gonna match up to the drama of D-Day landings and retaking Europe in particular, so I think they needed to do better with the character stuff on the ground. More stuff with the commanders or the mechanics perhaps. Every mission is basically fly somewhere, get shot to fuck, either die or return and do the same again until the war ends.

Agreed. The Battle of Britain would have made for a more compelling arc but the Americans weren’t there so I doubt they considered it.

[meady1981]

Haha, latest episode is full blown Handsome Yank Legends vs Wonky uptight loser Brits.
And one heck of a spoiler in the Up Next Episode bit.

[Dench57]

Not subtle with the anti-British sentiment is it?

[meady1981]

Not subtle with the anti-British sentiment is it?

Maybe they should hire some more American actors next time.

Im still not over them slagging off our leg-bags to be honest.

[Schmarn]

Spoiler

Given that they’ve ended up in Stalag Luft III, are we going to be subjected to a Americanised version of the Great Escape? That would be f*cking lazy writing.

[close]

[thejbs]

Spoiler

Given that they’ve ended up in Stalag Luft III, are we going to be subjected to a Americanised version of the Great Escape? That would be f*cking lazy writing.

[close]

Didn’t we already get that in the 1963 version?

Anyway, I finally care about a character - Rosenthal.

[Sangria]

Didn’t we already get that in the 1963 version?

Anyway, I finally care about a character - Rosenthal.

I liked how his plane got through the copious flak to be presented with a completely defenceless target, only to miss from practically point blank range.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I can't believe how bad this is, wish every single one of them would die, at least then we'd not just see them pop up again without any explanation.

[thejbs]

Yeah, they’ve really fucked it. The sfx of bombs hitting Berlin was worse than a video game.

[meady1981]

So the mustang was better than the spitfire was it

[meady1981]

Weird bits in this. The two young lads they based an episode on escaping just turn up at the airfield and then are whisked off home in seconds. And Elvis just appearing as if nothings happened. There's just no writing in this. All the cliches. Oh look, they've made a radio out of spare bits of lightbulb. Oh look, the girl that the narrator guy is seeing is a spy. Oh look, that English guys a dick blah blah blah.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It's like they filmed 18 episodes,then threw away all the evens & just left us with a whole lot of odd.

[Schmarn]

You know it’s not working as a series when you find yourself wanting the Germans to win.

[Sangria]

So the mustang was better than the spitfire was it

It was better at getting to places so it could fight, which was a huge factor. Pilots probably preferred the Spitfire, although commanders, especially on a strategic level, might well prefer the Mustang.

Q: Who named the P-51 "Mustang"?

[Zlen]

Special mention to all German soldiers being like something out of Wolfenstein, just raving lunatics yelling 'Raus! Raus!' at anything that moves.

[thejbs]

Special mention to all German soldiers being like something out of Wolfenstein, just raving lunatics yelling 'Raus! Raus!' at anything that moves.

Haha! A mate said the same thing! What a game!

[neilmc74]

i loved Band of Brothers, thought Pacific was ok but this is a load of tosh.  I watch every episode hoping to find something to like and come away disappointed.  The effects are shoddy, the script lazy and full of cliches. With 2 episodes to go will be glad when it is over. 

[Qston]

i loved Band of Brothers, thought Pacific was ok but this is a load of tosh.  I watch every episode hoping to find something to like and come away disappointed.  The effects are shoddy, the script lazy and full of cliches. With 2 episodes to go will be glad when it is over.

I found it much better on the 2nd watch and sticking with it to get through the "australia" episode

[bryanod]

I found it much better on the 2nd watch and sticking with it to get through the "australia" episode

Rewatched both recently enough and agreed Pacific was a bit better second time around, and only improves when compared to this tripe. Bizarro choices throughout, writing is just horrendous and everyone still clean shaven, wearing same clean clothes, and styled hair after being locked up for months, just funny.

[Qston]

Rewatched both recently enough and agreed Pacific was a bit better second time around, and only improves when compared to this tripe. Bizarro choices throughout, writing is just horrendous and everyone still clean shaven, wearing same clean clothes, and styled hair after being locked up for months, just funny.

Agreed on Masters of the Air. I had such high expectations, but it has been pretty awful so far.

[Fortneef]

This guy needs a series. Or five.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Bullard

[Qston]

This guy needs a series. Or five.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Bullard

Wow. What a life and what a story

[meady1981]

I'm convinced this was made by Chat GPT and midjourney.
Thank god Shogun has come along to take my mind off it,

[Alan_X]

I haven't watched the latest episode yet - the last one I saw almost got me with the scene where they were being loaded on to rail cars to be taken to Stalag Luft III and they see the train bound for the concentration camps. It was moving and poignant - not quite up there with Why We Fight but a real change of mood away from the pilots themselves. But then Egan arrives at the POW camp and we get to see what really matters - he's re-united with his bro Cleven and all is fine!

I did enjoy Herr Flick's interrogation though...

[thejbs]

I liked how they portrayed the Tuskegee airmen. I had read before that they were basically the smartest and brightest pilots in the whole army. Thiz was because they had set the entry requirements so high for black pilots. The old case of you had to be twice as good to get half the respect.

[meady1981]

It’s awfully kind of the Germans to always be so shouty before they enter a room so the handsome yanks have time to quickly hide away their radio bits.