Topic: Lucas Leiva - A Man for All Seasons pt 2

[Tsar Kastik]

Page 1 of what is obviously an appreciation thread and it's already turned miserable.

Why don't one of you start a thread that fits your thinking.

I thought he was comfortably in the top 3 for us last night, even after playing 95 minutes on Saturday and 125 minutes last night (Tuesday).

Good job he didn't miss that pivotal penalty isn't it!

[Cpt_Reina]

Think its now at the stage where those who really quite like Lucas and want him in the team are actually providing the best arguments against him being there.

You look at the endorsements in this thread and you see the buzzwords of 'character' and 'bravery' of him being a 'warrior' of his great 'devotion' to LFC and how he came back from being booed about 7 years ago (dont know why its seen as such an acomplishment, Lovren had it every bit as bad).

What you dont see from these pushing Lucas to the fore is much by the way of praise for his footballing ability or how he's actually playing.

Why? Because he's not playing very well. And bar a few oasis' of raising his game a few months ago he hasnt been playing well for some time now.

If posters who were so effusive about his 'character' and 'effort' attempted to engage in a discussion around his actual play then they know that arguement only skews one way.

Lucas' pen was great last night, him giving it to the Stoke fans was great, his celebration for the Lallana goal on the weekend was great.

What isnt great is how the ball was allowed to bounce around our midfield prior to the stoke goal with our defensive midfielder unable to do little about it. Unable to even run from 60mins onwards.

What isn't great is how he let Naismith run past him unchallenged vs Norwich and us shipping 4 goals to them when we have such a 'hardworking' dedicated DM on the pitch.

What isnt great is leaving his man completely unmarked vs Man Utd so Rooney wins the game.

But yeah, he's a great lad. Love the celebrations and all that. Would make a great Mighty Red.

[liverbnz]

We seem to concede a lot of goals and lose a lot of games with him in the team. With Gerard gone everybody and their dog predicted Lucas would be one of the players to step out from the shadow. He hasn't. He's got worse in fact. His mobility is excruciating to watch. Hopefully Allen gets a run his recent form merits.

Good pen though.

[CallumLFC]

To be fair i can understand the support he gets, he is a great guy and quite funny i guess, but truth be told he needs replacing as soon as possible.

His legs are gone and i can't help but cringe at his passing. Plays like he's on the verge of retirement.

[Peabee]

Why did he have a go at the Stoke fans, after his pen?

They were trying to put off our players.

[jwill2127]

Think its now at the stage where those who really quite like Lucas and want him in the team are actually providing the best arguments against him being there.

You look at the endorsements in this thread and you see the buzzwords of 'character' and 'bravery' of him being a 'warrior' of his great 'devotion' to LFC and how he came back from being booed about 7 years ago (dont know why its seen as such an acomplishment, Lovren had it every bit as bad).

What you dont see from these pushing Lucas to the fore is much by the way of praise for his footballing ability or how he's actually playing.

Why? Because he's not playing very well. And bar a few oasis' of raising his game a few months ago he hasnt been playing well for some time now.

If posters who were so effusive about his 'character' and 'effort' attempted to engage in a discussion around his actual play then they know that arguement only skews one way.

Lucas' pen was great last night, him giving it to the Stoke fans was great, his celebration for the Lallana goal on the weekend was great.

What isnt great is how the ball was allowed to bounce around our midfield prior to the stoke goal with our defensive midfielder unable to do little about it. Unable to even run from 60mins onwards.

What isn't great is how he let Naismith run past him unchallenged vs Norwich and us shipping 4 goals to them when we have such a 'hardworking' dedicated DM on the pitch.

What isnt great is leaving his man completely unmarked vs Man Utd so Rooney wins the game.

But yeah, he's a great lad. Love the celebrations and all that. Would make a great Mighty Red.

You are joking? Been one of the best players since Klopp came in. Covering for all the @@@t he plays with, is the hardest bit for him. Can is never gonna make it. Lucas is our Ronnie Whelan, only when he does not play will people see what he does.

[Tsar Kastik]

Don't worry trolls - one day one of our managers will maybe agree with you.

Special mention to Cpt_Reina 

[Cpt_Reina]

Don't worry trolls - one day one of our managers will maybe agree with you.

Special mention to Cpt_Reina 

Aye, and we might win something and/or finish higher than 7th 

[Tsar Kastik]

Sack the manager

[ScottScott]

He's been through so much. From being booed and slated by the crowd to becoming one of the greatest of all time. We've won so many trophies with him and had so many famous nights with him. Can't believe it, 300 games of the best football anyone has ever seen at Anfield

Oh wait, we've been massively mediocre for most of his time here. His legs have gone, he can barely move after 80 minutes, he can barely play 2 games on the bounce. He gets passed by too easily and loses his head when he gets forward. He's a massive issue in this team and we need to upgrade on him. It was a massive oversight by Klopp to not play Allen there last night

I love him on a personal level, he loves the club, the fans and the city but his time has come. That injury destroyed him and we're left with a shell of what was before that Chelsea game. I wouldn't begrudge him a medal before he leaves but he can't be starting many more games

I know I'll get slated too for it but it's true

[BeautifulGame91]

You are joking? Been one of the best players since Klopp came in. Covering for all the @@@t he plays with, is the hardest bit for him. Can is never gonna make it. Lucas is our Ronnie Whelan, only when he does not play will people see what he does.

Can has already usurped the starting place from Lucas and has been much better than him.

[Captain Caveman]

Think its now at the stage where those who really quite like Lucas and want him in the team are actually providing the best arguments against him being there.

... snip bla bla ...

But yeah, he's a great lad. Love the celebrations and all that. Would make a great Mighty Red.

Klopp seems to really quite like him and want him in the team, so have a word with our clueless manager why don't you, rather than waste your time on this thread?

[Cpt_Reina]

Klopp seems to really quite like him and want him in the team, so have a word with our clueless manager why don't you, rather than waste your time on this thread?

Klopp has had a squad ravaged by injury, Lucas has been one of the few who's been available this entire time, of course he's played.

When/if everyone is fit and firing we'll see how much Klopp likes him, especially after the summer transfer window.

Considering his first signing as manager was a CM/DM in Grujic I wouldnt be so sure of Lucas' position myself.

There's making do with what you have and then there's actually wanting what you have, Klopp could be doing either at this stage. Hopefully its the former.

[frag]

Surprised to see he is only 29, thought he was in his 30's. His legs look abit gone but that might just be the amount of games he has played, could do with a rest possibly.

I do love the lad though for his passion, and on his day looks brilliant. Thought it was great when he smashed his penalty back in last night and stared into the Stoke fans, seemed to quiet them down.

[stoj]

Was at the game last night,  anyone who doesn't see the influence Lucas has on the whole team needs to attend a game and open their eyes.  Hendo & Milner might be Capatain & VC,  but it's Lucas who is the intelligent one,  it's Lucas who literally tells Emre where to position himself  for the whole f*ckin game,  it's Lucas who's organising and encouraging the whole team.  So his legs aren't too quick,  frankly,  who gives a sh*t,  a team needs players like Lucas,  bold, fearless  experienced pro's who's game intelligence is second to none,  it's the reason Lucas gets moved back once he tires rather than subbed off.  Kloppo gets what Lucas brings,   heart,  desire and a decent footballer to boot.

Neil Atkinson said it so well last night:

"A centre mid gone centre half who has been booed on at this ground who has devoted his career to this club who has ran and worked and dived into the crowd for this club. A centre mid gone centre half who is as much one of us as any player can be. A Liverpudlian, pure and simple."

I totally agree with this. The legs may not be what they once were pre injury but the brain is far superior to the likes of Milner, Can and Henderson. I dont like dissing our own players and one thing we can say is that, despite the crap performance, we had heart to fight until the end. However, that midfield is not gonna score or create much. Its a needs must situation with our injury record this season and i agree with the view that playing Lucas twice in a week is a risk but i would have him in the team at the expense of any of those right now purely for organisational skills.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I totally agree with this. The legs may not be what they once were pre injury but the brain is far superior to the likes of Milner, Can and Henderson. I dont like dissing our own players and one thing we can say is that, despite the crap performance, we had heart to fight until the end. However, that midfield is not gonna score or create much. Its a needs must situation with our injury record this season and i agree with the view that playing Lucas twice in a week is a risk but i would have him in the team at the expense of any of those right now purely for organisational skills.

The last three games we've lost two by a goal to nil (at home) and conceded four goals in the other, not really seeing any organisation in midfield myself.

[ScottScott]

The last three games we've lost two by a goal to nil and conceded four goals in the other, not really seeing any organisation myself in midfield.

It's because there isn't any organisation. He's meant to be this super intelligent DM who sits in front of the back 4 and breaks everything up. In reality he's too slow to play that role and doesn't cover where he should

Great person by all accounts but not a player we should be playing if we have any thoughts of being anything more than a 6th-7th place team

[Captain Caveman]

Klopp has had a squad ravaged by injury, Lucas has been one of the few who's been available this entire time, of course he's played.

When/if everyone is fit and firing we'll see how much Klopp likes him, especially after the summer transfer window.

Considering his first signing as manager was a CM/DM in Grujic I wouldnt be so sure of Lucas' position myself.

There's making do with what you have and then there's actually wanting what you have, Klopp could be doing either at this stage. Hopefully its the former.

Although we've not had that many injuries in Lucas' position and still he's played. He's also had to play centre-half when we've not had any of those on the pitch. So from where I'm sitting, I'm delighted we have him in our squad. Of course he will eventually be phased out the older he gets, but I'd be surprised if Klopp gets rid of him next season. I don't think anyone (not even leivapool) is arguing he should be starting every game, but I really can't see why anyone would want to pick out Lucas as a squad player being a major issue.

[Tsar Kastik]

Some really amusing posts here. Seems if you lose a game 0-1 then it's 1 player not organising properly; no specifics mentioned - it just is.

[didi shamone]

The last three games we've lost two by a goal to nil (at home) and conceded four goals in the other, not really seeing any organisation in midfield myself.

But the genius faction in the Mignolet thread blame him for all those goals. Now the genius faction here blame Lucas for them. It's so confusing when the experts differ so greatly.

[OOS]

You are joking? Been one of the best players since Klopp came in. Covering for all the @@@t he plays with, is the hardest bit for him. Can is never gonna make it. Lucas is our Ronnie Whelan, only when he does not play will people see what he does.

Hahahah, Ronnie Whelan won 19 trophies with us. We finish 7th with Lucas as our spine and he hasn't wasn't even available for our last trophy win.

If he played for Chelsea or United people wouldn't rate him, because he is bang average. He started off with potential to be a top player but injuries and whatever has ruined him. Nice lad and that, but not what's needed for a title winning team. Same could be said for others to be honest.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Some really amusing posts here. Seems if you lose a game 0-1 then it's 1 player not organising properly; no specifics mentioned - it just is.

No, what's amusing is people saying he should be in the team for his organistation alone. If people are claiming this is what he's adding to the team then it should be discussed.

How was Lucas' organisation from the United corner that Rooney scored from? How about the Norwich game?

[Tsar Kastik]

No, what's amusing is people saying he should be in the team for his organistation alone. If people are claiming this is what he's adding to the team then it should be discussed.

How was Lucas' organisation from the United corner that Rooney scored from? How about the Norwich game?

Let's concentrate on just 1 of those for now - the United game; tell me all about the organisational failings for their goal that was Lucas' fault.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Let's concentrate on just 1 of those for now - the United game; tell me all about the organisational failings for their goal that was Lucas' fault.

Well, him marking Rooney and then buggering off to challenge Fellaini and leaving Rooney unmarked to score doesn't suggest great organisation skills to me.

As I've said, considering people claim he should be playing for his organisation alone, I'm struggling to see any in our games recently.

[Tsar Kastik]

Well, him marking Rooney and then buggering off to challenge Fellaini and leaving Rooney unmarked to score doesn't suggest great organisation skills to me.

As I've said, considering people claim he should be playing for his organisation alone, I'm struggling to see any in our games recently.

Ha. So he 'buggered off', not pushed away by Rooney? OK 

[Funky_Gibbons]

Ha. So he 'buggered off', not pushed away by Rooney? OK 

Yeah, Rooney threw him into the air to challenge Fellaini........

[Tsar Kastik]

Yeah, Rooney threw him into the air to challenge Fellaini........

He was marking Rooney, just as he was supposed to, when Rooney pushed him from behind just in the right place (Lucas' centre of gravity) and just at the right time (just before the ball is landing into the danger area).

Look at it again. 

[Funky_Gibbons]

He was marking Rooney, just as he was supposed to, when Rooney pushed him from behind just in the right place (Lucas' centre of gravity) and just at the right time (just before the ball is landing into the danger area).

Look at it again. 

That description is laughable.

Rooney pushed him hard enough to make him fly in the air to challenge Fellaini!!

[Tsar Kastik]

That description is laughable.

Rooney pushed him hard enough to make him fly in the air to challenge Fellaini!!

Looked at it again have you?

[Funky_Gibbons]

Looked at it again have you?

Don't need to.

[stoj]

The last three games we've lost two by a goal to nil (at home) and conceded four goals in the other, not really seeing any organisation in midfield myself.

That tells me, defensively, as a team, we are playing shite? Maybe thats the captains fault or down to the manage? (i am not advocating that btw)
The point i was making was about our midfield, not the whole team's responsibility in defending. Personally, hes a lot calmer on the ball than the rest of our current "fit" midfield, seems to organise them better (defensively) than they do themselves and i would have him in (when fit and not playing 2 games in a week) at the expense of one of previously mentioned trio. Im not saying he shits gold or is the long term answer either we just look more balanced with him in the side right now. None of the others could move back to CB when required so that says it all.

[Tsar Kastik]

Don't need to.

Lol

[lorenzo23]

Klopp has had a squad ravaged by injury, Lucas has been one of the few who's been available this entire time, of course he's played.

When/if everyone is fit and firing we'll see how much Klopp likes him, especially after the summer transfer window.

Considering his first signing as manager was a CM/DM in Grujic I wouldnt be so sure of Lucas' position myself.

There's making do with what you have and then there's actually wanting what you have, Klopp could be doing either at this stage. Hopefully its the former.

Totally agree with you, do you think Conor Coady could be the answer? i remember something along the lines of him being Lucas replacement few years ago?(next gerrard and all that)

[Funky_Gibbons]

Lol

I bet Lucas must have complained vigorously to the referee about being pushed after the goal? 

[Cpt_Reina]

Totally agree with you, do you think Conor Coady could be the answer? i remember something along the lines of him being Lucas replacement few years ago?(next gerrard and all that)

Grujic mate, where you been?

[Captain Caveman]

Lucas organising play is not about marking at set pieces you nonces. 

Just because we haven't been able to defend set pieces for the last few years, people decide to use that as a stick to bash Lucas with. Well played sirs.

Truth is that Allen is probably not good enough to be a regular starter, Can is but doesn't yet seem to have the game intelligence to play DM without someone like Lucas running the midfield. Lucas has an important role to play in the squad, particularly with the amount of games we have to play. And I wonder why Lucas is the one Klopp decides to use as an emergency centre-half in a crisis. It's not his height. Maybe something to with organisation skills?

[leivapool]

Grujic mate, where you been?

But Grucis directly said that Klopp sees him as somewhere BETWEEN Lucas & Coutinho.  So not a Lucas replacement then,  more a Can one

[DangerScouse]

Love him. Delighted he never went in the summer.

[BeautifulGame91]

But Grucis directly said that Klopp sees him as somewhere BETWEEN Lucas & Coutinho.  So not a Lucas replacement then,  more a Can one

Can has been the Lucas replacement under Klopp.We have already played few times under Klopp with Can as DM with Lucas on the bench .

[Groundskeeper Willie]

What the fuck to make of him? When I make up my mind that he should go, he pulls a few good to great performances out of the hat and I change my mind.
He's proved to be quite versatile too, as I think he's looked good at CB too. He has a huge Liverpool heart, so my final judgment is that he should stay as a very useful squad player.