Author Topic: CL Sevilla 3 -3 LFC (Firmino 2 30, Mane 21 Ben Yedder 50, 60 (Pen) Pizzaro 93 )  (Read 86238 times)

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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We saw similar collapses, like the one vs Crystal Palace when we lost the title under Rodgers.

We lost the title vs Chelsea. We would have had to win the Palace game by about 10 goals.
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Offline Klippity Klopp

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We lost the title vs Chelsea. We would have had to win the Palace game by about 10 goals.

Talk about missing the point...  ;D

Online mkingdon

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Re Henderson, once Keita gets here are we expecting

                      Keita

   Lallana                           Coutinho

Or if Coutinho does leave...

                    Keita

   Henderson                    Lallana



Is Keita coming to play that 6 role? I've also assumed Can is on his way.....

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Yes, on both counts.

His problem as a Liverpool player in the long run might be that where he is strongest (an attacking midfield player or on the wings) is where we are already strongest as a team. Klopp surely will never prefer Henderson to Coutinho or Lallana, let alone Salah or Mane. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be ahead of Oxlade-Chamberlain or Milner either - and before you can say Jack Robinson we'll have Woodburn in the mix too.

Henderson's skill-set, oddly, might be liberated by playing for a team that sits back and absorbs pressure and hits sides on the break. A team like Newcastle perhaps? Or Huddersfield. He adores attacking empty space (a rare commodity when you play for Liverpool). And he prefers the decoy run to actually having the ball.


Henderson should really get a chance in the Wijnaldum role, with someone like Can doing the job at 6.

It would suit his skillset better.  He's a brilliant presser of the ball and you do much more of that as an 8 rather than a 6. 

He can then use that energy for those counter attacks as you mention.  But where I disagree with you is that is the only time he can contribute.  The season before Klopp came he was our most productive player in terms of goals & assists combined in the league - yes more than Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge etc.  He didn't just get them due to goals on the counter attack.  He's got a superb cross, he did some lovely flicks in tight situations around the opposition box.

I genuinely think people forget how good Henderson was that season and how much better he is in that box to box role.

He's 27, he says he's over his injuries, he seems to be able to play as more of a box to box player for England.  I still think he can do it physically, I just feel Klopp really likes him in that deeper role - as he's been the clear 1st choice for that position since Klopp has arrived at the club.  To be fair, until Henderson got injured last season and we were near the top of the league with the balanced CM including Lallana, not many had too many issues with Henderson - despite it probably not being his best position.  Last weekend for example he had a really good game too.

He gets a hard time and although he's no Alonso or Weigl - it doesn't mean he's poor either.  There is a middle ground and I personally think he gets too much of a hard time when we don't win as he's always the first to be blamed.  Often when he's one of the least at fault.

Mid week the midfield were collectively awful.  I feel sorry for the deepest CM, as they are really reacting to what the two in front do.  The two in front should be doing the bulk of the pressing, forcing errors and getting the tackles.  The deepest one should be more of a interceptor, plugging the gaps and spaces.  If the two in front of Henderson don't work, then he probably won't either as they need to be in sync collectively.  They clearly weren't, but they were on the weekend.

Offline Fiasco

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Re Henderson, once Keita gets here are we expecting

                      Keita

   Lallana                           Coutinho

Or if Coutinho does leave...

                    Keita

   Henderson                    Lallana



Is Keita coming to play that 6 role? I've also assumed Can is on his way.....




                       Goretzka

        Keita                          Lallana


Salah                Firmino                Mane

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Re Henderson, once Keita gets here are we expecting

                      Keita

   Lallana                           Coutinho

Or if Coutinho does leave...

                    Keita

   Henderson                    Lallana



Is Keita coming to play that 6 role? I've also assumed Can is on his way.....

I think that would be such a waste of Keita.

He can offer so much going forwards as well as defensively.

Keita I'm hoping is the Wijnaldum upgrade primarly.

Offline sms1986

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We haven't qualified yet.

Technically, we have qualified (for European football after the group stages are over). ;D

Offline sms1986

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We lost the title vs Chelsea. We would have had to win the Palace game by about 10 goals.

It was one of the reasons, but not the only one, plus we still had a chance even on the final day. We needed to win and we did, if City hadn't won as well we would have had number 19 (yes, I know it wouldn't have gone to the final day if we hadn't lost to Chelsea and/or drawn with Palace).

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re Henderson, once Keita gets here are we expecting

                      Keita

   Lallana                           Coutinho

Or if Coutinho does leave...

                    Keita

   Henderson                    Lallana



Is Keita coming to play that 6 role? I've also assumed Can is on his way.....

     Keita-Gini
     Coutinho
Salah Bobby Mane
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SLAVA
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Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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We haven't qualified yet.
Yep you're correct, my mistake.

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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     Keita-Gini
     Coutinho
Salah Bobby Mane
I love the thought of Timo Werner between those two, but how much does Firminos work rate and intelligence benefit Mane and Salah?, can't think of a forward of his type that's as intelligent and hard working off the top of my head to be honest.

Online John C

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Cracking post yorky mate  :wave
Although I think Henderson is a far better player Dier.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 06:51:44 pm by John C »

Offline lewisfvv

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I love the thought of Timo Werner between those two, but how much does Firminos work rate and intelligence benefit Mane and Salah?, can't think of a forward of his type that's as intelligent and hard working off the top of my head to be honest.

Feel Firmino is criminally under-rated

Offline Curtisinho

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Feel Firmino is criminally under-rated

He most definitely is. If people watch our games with a focus solely on Firmino they might get an idea of just how much he does for the team, the space he facilitates for others, and the amount of problems he causes for the other team. He misplaces passes once in a while, sure, but he's a creative player that tries to make things happen every time he's on the ball. He just needs to be more lucky in his finishing and he's genuinely world class. For me he's still our best and most important player.
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Online stjohns

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We lost the title vs Chelsea. We would have had to win the Palace game by about 10 goals.

Yes and don't forget it was Henderson getting sent off against City, in injury time, when we had the game wrapped up that contributed to Stevie being so exposed against Chelsea. Naieve stupidity cost us the title.

Offline fowlermagic

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If we are fielding a

.........Keita...Gini
..........Coutinho

midfield next season then I hope there is a serious investment in defence as with those three midfielders  the backline wont have much cover.  Ideally we will be adding a holding midfielder to the mix next season and of course a central defender as in games like Sevilla you be hoping to see options on the bench better than what we had Wed. No central defender option unless you think swopping Gomez into a central position for the first time was wise and Can, a guy who thinks vacating our own half on a wild goose chase was the right choice when we were hanging on.
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Offline Sat1

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Henderson is not good enough. Maybe he needs to lose the captains arm band. Even his energy, his asset has gone.

Offline IanZG

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Yes and don't forget it was Henderson getting sent off against City, in injury time, when we had the game wrapped up that contributed to Stevie being so exposed against Chelsea. Naieve stupidity cost us the title.

The game definitely wasn't wrapped up at 3-2...

Online Yorkykopite

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Henderson is not good enough. Maybe he needs to lose the captains arm band. Even his energy, his asset has gone.

I don’t think that’s  true. His energy is the same as it always was. But, as always, it only takes him so far on a football field. There’s a point when you want the skill and high technique to kick in.
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Online stjohns

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I don’t think that’s  true. His energy is the same as it always was. But, as always, it only takes him so far on a football field. There’s a point when you want the skill and high technique to kick in.

Whatever his attributes are, they do not include being a world class player
with big game intelligence and experience of winning trophies on a regular basis.
This is what I feel we need right now in that position and as captain.

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Henderson is not good enough. Maybe he needs to lose the captains arm band. Even his energy, his asset has gone.

He's playing in a different role.

Of course he looks like he has less energy, presses less, get less assists & goals - he's playing in a more disciplined role.

I mean, is this not obvious?!  ;D


Offline Klippity Klopp

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Whatever his attributes are, they do not include being a world class player
with big game intelligence and experience of winning trophies on a regular basis.
This is what I feel we need right now in that position and as captain.

"World class"

You don't need a team for of "world class" players to win the league.

Look at the players United had over the years who weren't top draw, far from it.

It's a team game and surround him with the right quality he can be effective, as he showed at the start of last season.  As he showed when we challenged under Rodgers.

I think the captain thing is way overplayed and just another way to have a pop at him.

Offline BobPaisley3

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Yes and don't forget it was Henderson getting sent off against City, in injury time, when we had the game wrapped up that contributed to Stevie being so exposed against Chelsea. Naieve stupidity cost us the title.
Stevie wasn’t exposed against Chelsea. His role was to drop in and get it off the centre backs. It was an unfortunate slip which wouldn’t have resulted in anything different had Hendo been playing. I agree on the City red though, silly tackle.
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Offline 24/7

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Phew - the Round Table Discussion thread is up:

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=337390.0

Sensible posts only there please. Thanks. This thundercunting thread is officially deaded. :wave