Author Topic: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread  (Read 11177 times)

Offline Samie

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #320 on: March 21, 2024, 10:06:51 pm »
Samie's not even here and he's taking bullets.  ;D

Offline Musketeer Gripweed

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #321 on: March 21, 2024, 10:12:01 pm »
I keep thinking Spain 82 was only a couple of world cups ago. 42 fucking years. That's scary.

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #322 on: March 21, 2024, 10:48:12 pm »
Will I pick Bobby awol 24 hours?
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Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #323 on: March 21, 2024, 10:52:27 pm »
Hmmm that Thuram goal is one of my favourite goals ever as a France fan, but I'm not convinced his celebration was all that memorable. Nice little moment but it feels like people are getting bit lost in the occasion of some of these goals rather than the celebration itself. I had honestly completely forgotten it until you posted and France are MY team. But I'm also coming to accept that this category is a complete mess and not what I had in mind when I created it - certainly nothing much that nods to Klopp - so I don't know anymore. Maybe there's no going back anymore.

Sincerely from my deathbed.
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #324 on: March 22, 2024, 12:00:17 am »
Hmmm that Thuram goal is one of my favourite goals ever as a France fan, but I'm not convinced his celebration was all that memorable. Nice little moment but it feels like people are getting bit lost in the occasion of some of these goals rather than the celebration itself. I had honestly completely forgotten it until you posted and France are MY team. But I'm also coming to accept that this category is a complete mess and not what I had in mind when I created it - certainly nothing much that nods to Klopp - so I don't know anymore. Maybe there's no going back anymore.

Sincerely from my deathbed.

Thuram only scored two goals in 142 caps for France. Both of them were in that World Cup semi-final.  The celebration is not the most passionate or over-the-top celebration but that is why it's memorable because the fucker never scored again. Imagine if Joe Gomez scored in the last game of the season and won the league for us and did that celebration. That would be bonkers.


Offline Lastrador

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #325 on: March 22, 2024, 02:21:52 am »
PAVEL NEDVED: KLOPP'S PERFECT ATTACKING MIDFIELDER


Much has been written about Klopp's "Heavy Metal Football" philosophy. When you think of Heavy Metal, you think of Speed, Intensity and precision. Those three things perfectly describe the Czech dynamo as a football player. I would also add space exploitation and tactical versatility as two other key elements in both Klopp's teams and Nedved skill set.

So what sort of player was Pavel Nedved?

I think there's this misguided perception, that he was primarily a left-winger. He did play on the left, but more as a tactical starting place, than as an actual left-winger trying to stretch the lines and get to the byline. The reality is that much like Steven Gerrard when Rafa deployed him on the right, or later on as a second striker, Nedved played kind of a free role in Juventus, Lazio and the Czech Republic, roaming all over the opposite half. He could get to the byline from the left, or from the right. Cut inside and play more central. Wherever there was space to exploit, he would find it.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ckHgAfhreic&amp;t=176s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ckHgAfhreic&amp;t=176s</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4lM3r0croTg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4lM3r0croTg</a>

His intelligence in finding little spots of space was remarkable, but the reason why he could play so effectively in so many parts of the pitch it's because he simply had a complete and near-flawless skill set. He was an excellent passer, crosser and a deadly shooter. And he could use both feet with equal proficiency. While not a flashy dribbler he had a great close-control at speed and touch. As an athlete, he was quick on both short and long distances and had an ungodly amount of stamina. He would run from the 1st minute to the last with the same level of intensity. In an age where there was not so much emphasis on athleticism as it is today, Nedved stood out both as an athlete and as a footballer.
 
Defensively, he was probably the hardest-working attacking midfielder of his time and a proficient tackler. He was also a strong and tenacious fucker, which helped on this end too. His hot head being probably his weaker spot. It cost him a UCL final and probably a title. The following video shows how a 34 years old Nedved, still could compete on both ends with the eventual world champions Italy in the 2006 WC. So if you have any doubts about his defensive output this should squash that.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/DXm7fzt5DLc&amp;t=197s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/DXm7fzt5DLc&amp;t=197s</a>

Regarding the pressing question. While counter-pressing wasn't really a thing in the Nedved era, he did excel at Marcello Lippi's Juventus, which was one of the best exponents of pressing from that era. And I think Nedved had all the qualities to not only adapt but excel at counter-pressing.

So would such a unique talent fit in a Klopp's team? I have no doubts that he would fit in perfectly and seamlessly into any iterations of Klopp's teams, and he would elevate all of them. His direct, dynamic, and incredibly precise play style is tailor-made for Klopp.

For Dortmund he would pretty much replace Großkreutz, who was a solid and hard-working player, but on another planet to Nedved skill-wise.

For Liverpool, he would have probably played in that midfield three, with the other two midfielders having more defensive and positional responsibilities. A bit like Curtis, Harvey or Dom play for us on these days. Or like Klopp hoped Naby would.

Could you imagine prime Nedved feeding the likes of Mane, Salah and Bobby, while also stretching and supporting the wide players from all sides, and delivering crossers the likes of Henderson could never quite pull? While also being a complete pest and scoring in double figures with some outrageous strikes from all distances?

Mouthwatering, and I doubt Jurgen would think any different.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 02:38:55 am by Lastrador »

Offline Draex

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #326 on: March 22, 2024, 07:17:26 am »
I’d vote yes for you Las!

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #327 on: March 22, 2024, 07:31:03 am »
I back Betty, if you need an essay to explain why, then no is the answer.

Also, I have zero recollection of that Thuram celebration and 98 was my first World Cup. The one you always remember. Or maybe I’m salty as he was my next pick.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #328 on: March 22, 2024, 07:41:39 am »
Overanalysis imo.

Physically, tactically, technically Nedved was very good. He would fit the approach of any manager, from the low block of Mourinho to Klopp's higher risk approach. If Klopp required arcane, esoteric qualities from his work he would be working in a lab not managing men.

Nedved is an easy yes for a Klopp side, think the category is just nebulous. If you're a committed, decent player than you are a player for most coaches. Where failed cases achieve notoriety is usually down to the mental aspect.

Edit: spelling
« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 07:44:14 am by surfer. Fuck you generator. »

Offline Max_powers

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #329 on: March 22, 2024, 07:51:10 am »
I back Betty, if you need an essay to explain why, then no is the answer.

Also, I have zero recollection of that Thuram celebration and 98 was my first World Cup. The one you always remember. Or maybe I’m salty as he was my next pick.

If Betty says no to Thuram I am just swapping categories for him.  ;D

Also, I think Nedved would have been a great Klopp player. Versatile, hardworking, technically gifted. Basically a better James Milner   ;).

He was not pressing a lot because most teams in Serie A at that time didn't play that style of football.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #330 on: March 22, 2024, 09:41:24 am »
Sarge has gone again, is it me now, I’ve lost the thread.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #331 on: March 22, 2024, 09:55:38 am »
should of been Vivabobby before Sarge, maybe they have spoken in dm's but I think it should be bobby

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #332 on: March 22, 2024, 10:05:02 am »
should of been Vivabobby before Sarge, maybe they have spoken in dm's but I think it should be bobby
I think it was fair game for Sarge to go given Bobby’s been inactive for over 24 hours. I am lost with this draft.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #333 on: March 22, 2024, 10:47:28 am »
I think it was fair game for Sarge to go given Bobby’s been inactive for over 24 hours. I am lost with this draft.
I get you but there are times the PM hasn't been sent

I'll pm Bobby then give him say to 11.30? he has been online this morning

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #334 on: March 22, 2024, 11:16:17 am »
Just about to post, guys. Sorry for delay. Back in the mix now
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #335 on: March 22, 2024, 11:37:30 am »
Sorry but I felt I could go, bobby is back now so we can get moving.

Well happy with that 5 so far.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #336 on: March 22, 2024, 11:43:04 am »
Sorry but I felt I could go, bobby is back now so we can get moving.

Well happy with that 5 so far.

No prob, Sarge. Not sure who to pm as next?
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #337 on: March 22, 2024, 11:43:48 am »
No prob, Sarge. Not sure who to pm as next?

Going down so who is below you?
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #338 on: March 22, 2024, 11:52:46 am »
Erm....you, Sarge?
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #339 on: March 22, 2024, 11:55:09 am »
Just dm'd DS
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #340 on: March 22, 2024, 12:30:13 pm »
Samie has been notified.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline Hazell

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #341 on: March 22, 2024, 01:10:48 pm »
I have some meetings this afternoon so if it gets round to me, just carry on and I'll pick later on.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #342 on: March 22, 2024, 01:25:22 pm »
I have slept for an eternity and feel a little better. Thanks for keeping things running guys. I will catch up with everything slowly and update the pick list shortly  :)
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Draex

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #343 on: March 22, 2024, 01:34:05 pm »
Am I picking? Home now.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #344 on: March 22, 2024, 01:44:34 pm »
Blonde German - Joshua Kimmich



DS - Surfer picked Kimmich and it wasn't accepted due to complaints. So I can't allow him here, even though you have found a slightly more blond pic. Though that's mostly because it's oversaturated with a yellow tint. You can see the difference below. I don't think he quite meets (the admittedly low) Lahm threshhold.

Hey fellas. Since it's so peaceful here, I've got another blondie to vet:



That qualifies right?  ;D
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Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #345 on: March 22, 2024, 01:56:46 pm »
Thuram only scored two goals in 142 caps for France. Both of them were in that World Cup semi-final.  The celebration is not the most passionate or over-the-top celebration but that is why it's memorable because the fucker never scored again. Imagine if Joe Gomez scored in the last game of the season and won the league for us and did that celebration. That would be bonkers.

I think you just made my point for me. It's all about the ridiculousness of HIM of all people scoring those goals. They are remembered regardless of the celebration. The goals are the iconic part.

I think this is a good solution if that's okay with you -

If Betty says no to Thuram I am just swapping categories for him.  ;D
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #346 on: March 22, 2024, 02:00:19 pm »
Musk -

Cat 4 - Marco Tardelli.



I assume you mean Cat. 6 given the GIF. Great goal celebration. Exactly the madbox thing I had in mind for this category  :)
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Musketeer Gripweed

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #347 on: March 22, 2024, 02:03:04 pm »
Musk -

I assume you mean Cat. 6 given the GIF. Great goal celebration. Exactly the madbox thing I had in mind for this category  :)

Spot on. I've already used my Cat 4 for Socrates. It was very lkate for me last night. Usually tucked up by 10 these days.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #348 on: March 22, 2024, 02:19:00 pm »
Spot on. I've already used my Cat 4 for Socrates. It was very lkate for me last night. Usually tucked up by 10 these days.

All good. Just wanted to double check as he's definitely not over 6ft  :)  but could also fit in other categories
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #349 on: March 22, 2024, 02:21:18 pm »
I think you just made my point for me. It's all about the ridiculousness of HIM of all people scoring those goals. They are remembered regardless of the celebration. The goals are the iconic part.

I think this is a good solution if that's okay with you -

Ok I am done, changed categories.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #350 on: March 22, 2024, 02:24:33 pm »
PAVEL NEDVED: KLOPP'S PERFECT ATTACKING MIDFIELDER


Now that is some serious football analysis. I tip my hat to you, sir. I am always happy to admit when I'm wrong and I can totally see how Nedved could fit into a Klopp system. Also, most people seem to agree in here. So he's all yours  :)

But -

He would fit the approach of any manager, from the low block of Mourinho to Klopp's higher risk approach. If Klopp required arcane, esoteric qualities from his work he would be working in a lab not managing men.

Nedved is an easy yes for a Klopp side, think the category is just nebulous. If you're a committed, decent player than you are a player for most coaches. Where failed cases achieve notoriety is usually down to the mental aspect.

When we're dealing with all-time greats, it's very easy to say they would be great with any manager. You need to separate their worldie ability from this discussion. This category is not about that. It's about tapping into players who have attributes that Klopp would actively seek out and put in his team. Would he watch a raw untested 18-21 year old version of said player and want to sign them? There's enough here to say Nedved may be a player Klopp would try to implement. Mostly because I think fair points have been raised that Nedved was very hard working, versatile and intelligent in how he played. Also, Max's point here is very fair re pressing -

He was not pressing a lot because most teams in Serie A at that time didn't play that style of football.

But generally speaking players in this mould are not Klopp players IMO, which is why I wanted to discuss him some more. E.g. I wouldn't accept M. Laudrup if he were available. He was an utterly blindingly great player with some similar attributes to Nedved, but unlike him he never showed himself to be particularly versatile or hard working.

So, all I'm saying is be mindful of that with this category.
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Musketeer Gripweed

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #351 on: March 22, 2024, 02:27:38 pm »
All good. Just wanted to double check as he's definitely not over 6ft  :)  but could also fit in other categories

Definitely could, a heavy metal player if there ever was one.

I loved that World Cup though, couldn't not pick that celebration.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #352 on: March 22, 2024, 02:32:02 pm »
Robbie -

Cafu

Cat 11.. Heavy Metal

Need a short sentence or two on why Cafu is a Klopp player. Not saying he isn't, but that's the brief for cat. 11 no matter how obviously they fit. Besides, I just want to see you all flex your football writing analysis muscles a bit more in here, and see how well people know the players they're picking  ;)  Lastrador has set the bar high! (but definitely don't need people writing essays)
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #353 on: March 22, 2024, 02:34:50 pm »
Ok I am done, changed categories.

Cheers mate. Appreciated. You might be better off getting another shot at that category anyway. There are loads of great picks left to be made in there  :)

Definitely could, a heavy metal player if there ever was one.

I loved that World Cup though, couldn't not pick that celebration.

Haha indeed. He was one of the first names I noted down in there, along with Masch!

Too young to have watched that World Cup, but remember the stories from my 'pa. Love that you've put Socrates and Tardelli together!
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #354 on: March 22, 2024, 02:41:43 pm »
Pick list is now up to date  :wave
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #355 on: March 22, 2024, 03:04:33 pm »
Firstly, I hadn’t caught someone had tried for Kimmich. Secondly, he is quite clearly blonde. He’s more blonde than Lahm. If that’s not blonde that’s ridiculous.

I will pick again BECAUSE someone else picked him, not because he isn’t blonde, which he is.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #356 on: March 22, 2024, 03:08:00 pm »
Firstly, I hadn’t caught someone had tried for Kimmich. Secondly, he is quite clearly blonde. He’s more blonde than Lahm. If that’s not blonde that’s ridiculous.

I will pick again BECAUSE someone else picked him, not because he isn’t blonde, which he is.

If that was the case, someone should have backed Surfer when he made the pick. But no-one did. Sorry, I have to be consistent.
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #357 on: March 22, 2024, 03:09:21 pm »
If that was the case, someone should have backed Surfer when he made the pick. But no-one did. Sorry, I have to be consistent.
I respect the consistency. Had I ever seen it, I would’ve backed him. Too late now.

No one can argue that Ronaldinho celebration isn’t iconic. We were doing it as kids on the playground after a bit of skill or a silky goal.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #358 on: March 22, 2024, 03:19:29 pm »
Cafu - ultimate heavy metal right back. Outstanding going forward and outstanding when attack becomes defence. Physically immense with great stamina and workmanlike qualities. There is no doubts about his defensive qualities in an attacking formation, and no doubts regarding the requirement in a Klopp team for the full back to provide creativity and support the press which he would thrive on.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Jurgen Klopp Draft - Discussion thread
« Reply #359 on: March 22, 2024, 03:19:44 pm »
I respect the consistency. Had I ever seen it, I would’ve backed him. Too late now.

No one can argue that Ronaldinho celebration isn’t iconic. We were doing it as kids on the playground after a bit of skill or a silky goal.

Ummm Ronaldinho is on the ban list, mate  :-X

For the record, I think Lahm and Kimmich have about the same 'natural' hair colour, which is light brown. But I think Lahm used highlights in his hair at certain stages in his career. So Lahm's hair does occasionally appear more blond. That's ultimately why he was allowed to stay. I originally was against it though, but others argued for him so that's why he's in. If others want to argue for Kimmich then we can discuss his hair too. The things we do for drafting, eh  ;D
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.