Topic: Merseyrail - now with added 777

[courty61]

That's a pity, I know one of the overhead railway carriages is in the Museum of Liverpool but as a kid I remember the (world) Museum also had a number of trains on display but have no idea if any of them are still there since the museum was updated. Doesn't seem to be an accessible area anymore.

Yeah I used to love that as a kid. Shame they moved it

[rob1966]

New series of Great British Railway Journeys just started on BBC2, Portillo is starting in Liverpool in this episode.

[jillcwhomever]

So is the old stock not being used anymore? It's the first time this week I have been on the new trains to and from work this week.

[Oh Campione]

So is the old stock not being used anymore? It's the first time this week I have been on the new trains to and from work this week.

I was on an old 6 car on the Hunts Cross line this morning and yesterday - getting rarer but still running at the moment

[jillcwhomever]

I was on an old 6 car on the Hunts Cross line this morning and yesterday - getting rarer but still running at the moment

On my way home and we're on an older one as well.

[Red Beret]

A thought just popped into my head. Labour has said its rail nationalisation plans won't include buying up existing rolling stock. But Merseyrail own the 777s outright, whereas the 507s and 508s were leased.

Does that mean when a Labour government takes control of the Merseyrail franchise, these will be the only trains owned by the government?

[gazzalfc]

A thought just popped into my head. Labour has said its rail nationalisation plans won't include buying up existing rolling stock. But Merseyrail own the 777s outright, whereas the 507s and 508s were leased.

Does that mean when a Labour government takes control of the Merseyrail franchise, these will be the only trains owned by the government?

So as far as I know Merseytravel which is run by the council own the new trains and not Merseyrail. Merseyrail (owned by Serco-Abellio) run the service. Once under a labour government they will move to Great British Rail

[Red Beret]

So as far as I know Merseytravel which is run by the council own the new trains and not Merseyrail. Merseyrail (owned by Serco-Abellio) run the service. Once under a labour government they will move to Great British Rail

Thanks for clarifying. It seems Merseyrail will be the easiest part of the network to take control of.

[John_P]

https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/news/stunning-new-images-of-planned-%C2%A3100m-liverpool-baltic-station-revealed/

They've unveiled CGI plans for Baltic Station ahead of the public consultation.

Actually noticed the other weekend some of the platforms between Hunts Cross and Brunswick have had new network maps put up with Liverpool Baltic on the map but covered up.

[gazzalfc]

I get the train from Brunswick and I know what that patch of tunnel looks like. It's going to be so hard to get a station there.

Also knowing how little value merseyrail gives to Central to Hunts Cross line, there is no way they get it done in a competent way.

[Red Beret]

I get the train from Brunswick and I know what that patch of tunnel looks like. It's going to be so hard to get a station there.

Also knowing how little value merseyrail gives to Central to Hunts Cross line, there is no way they get it done in a competent way.

It's on the site of a previous station. Compared to building Conway Park it should be a piece of piss really. They had to dig down 40 feet and remove a chunk of the tunnel to build that.

[CornerFlag]

It's on the site of a previous station. Compared to building Conway Park it should be a piece of piss really. They had to dig down 40 feet and remove a chunk of the tunnel to build that.

I remember it being a straight run from Birkenhead Park through to Hamilton Square back in the day, Conway Park is a damn good bit of engineering (and those 99 stairs are a good walk too!).  Also remember the old Birkenhead Park layout as well with three (?) platforms.

[gazzalfc]

I know Steve Rotheram needs that big pot of cash from the government but there is no way he can deliver this on the footprint that is Liverpool central

[Oh Campione]

I know Steve Rotheram needs that big pot of cash from the government but there is no way he can deliver this on the footprint that is Liverpool central

Don't believe it will happen but it will be funding as the main issue, not the footprint.  Central is suprisingly big if you look at the area on something like Google Earth

[John_P]

Think the most depressing thing from reading the article was them saying it would make journeys from Liverpool Central to Manchester Airport as short as 25 minutes. Thus making it easier and faster to get to that than the airport in Liverpool.

[CornerFlag]

So they want to rebuild a Central High Level station again?

[courty61]

Think the most depressing thing from reading the article was them saying it would make journeys from Liverpool Central to Manchester Airport as short as 25 minutes. Thus making it easier and faster to get to that than the airport in Liverpool.

How would that work? Linked to the main line at Lime St?

[rob1966]

Think the most depressing thing from reading the article was them saying it would make journeys from Liverpool Central to Manchester Airport as short as 25 minutes. Thus making it easier and faster to get to that than the airport in Liverpool.

Speke just doesn't have the space to expand, its always going to be one runway and have a finite number of flights it can handle, so having better links to Manc airport can actually benefit the city. Liverpool is by far the better airport, so people aren't going to stop using flights out of there just because the train now goes to Manc. People can stay overnight in the hotels if they want then get the train, people on Merseyside and the Wirral can travel into and then out of central, rather than having to get transfers or drive to Manc, it should bring benefits.

[John_P]

How would that work? Linked to the main line at Lime St?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/stunning-images-show-massive-plans-29217329

Here's the article from the echo about the plans.

Speke just doesn't have the space to expand, its always going to be one runway and have a finite number of flights it can handle, so having better links to Manc airport can actually benefit the city. Liverpool is by far the better airport, so people aren't going to stop using flights out of there just because the train now goes to Manc. People can stay overnight in the hotels if they want then get the train, people on Merseyside and the Wirral can travel into and then out of central, rather than having to get transfers or drive to Manc, it should bring benefits.

It's more the fact you fly into/out of Liverpool and your stuck using bus  (or expensive taxis) to get to your destination. Suppose it wouldn't be too bad if they just stopped at the airport and then Liverpool South Parkway but non of them do that. So if this plan happens you can get a 25 minute train from Central to Manchester Airport, but from Central it's about 15 minutes to South Parkway and then the wait for a bus to show up.

[redbyrdz]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/stunning-images-show-massive-plans-29217329

Here's the article from the echo about the plans.

It's more the fact you fly into/out of Liverpool and your stuck using bus  (or expensive taxis) to get to your destination. Suppose it wouldn't be too bad if they just stopped at the airport and then Liverpool South Parkway but non of them do that. So if this plan happens you can get a 25 minute train from Central to Manchester Airport, but from Central it's about 15 minutes to South Parkway and then the wait for a bus to show up.

Pretty sure Rotheram's manifest for regional mayor mentioned a shuttle bus to the airport. It's really badly needed, as you say it's ridiculous that there isn't a better connection to the airport. South Parkway is advertised as "for Liverpool airport", but they don't say you have to get a local bus and buy another ticket!

[rob1966]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/stunning-images-show-massive-plans-29217329

Here's the article from the echo about the plans.

It's more the fact you fly into/out of Liverpool and your stuck using bus  (or expensive taxis) to get to your destination. Suppose it wouldn't be too bad if they just stopped at the airport and then Liverpool South Parkway but non of them do that. So if this plan happens you can get a 25 minute train from Central to Manchester Airport, but from Central it's about 15 minutes to South Parkway and then the wait for a bus to show up.

Yeah they need to sort out the links to JLA first, as RB says, just put shuttle buses on.

Before he got too old to fly, my Stepdad, who lives in Southport, switched to JLA from Manchester as its a far better experience, I use Manc as its so close, but I hate the place, I'd much rather go from Speke.

[Red Beret]

I remember it being a straight run from Birkenhead Park through to Hamilton Square back in the day, Conway Park is a damn good bit of engineering (and those 99 stairs are a good walk too!).  Also remember the old Birkenhead Park layout as well with three (?) platforms.

I don't remember Birkenhead Park with three platforms but I always imagined it did, as Birkenhead North has three and back in the day before nationalisation and the loop you had to change trains once out of the tunnel to get to New Brighton.

[Red Beret]

I know Steve Rotheram needs that big pot of cash from the government but there is no way he can deliver this on the footprint that is Liverpool central

Something like this would require levelling Newington Street. See the attached pictures. There are old buildings just out of shot, including the Egg Cafe. I'm not convinced they would survive a rebuild like this.

I don't see the point. What Central Station needs is more capacity; there's no point giving it a face lift if the platforms are still overcrowded. Either make use of the previously dug header tunnels to expand Central to four platforms, or bring disused infrastructure back into use to divert Ormskirk and Kirkby/Headbolt Lane trains to a new high level station close to where Exchange Street used to be. Those routes could soon be extended to serve Preston and Wigan Wallgate, so passenger numbers are only going to go up.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed the link to the Echo article. I'm not opposed to the idea, as long as it doesn't involve removing any existing buildings, expanding Liverpool Central is going to be challenging. Personally, I think it's possible to drive a tunnel from Cressington station and building an underground station at Liverpool Airport, but whether that's affordable I don't know.

[bradders1011]

[Red Beret]

Who do you think you are? Capon?

I remember that place when it was Bits and Bytes. I'm old lol

[moondog]

Redberet what do you mean by ‘driving a tunnel from Cressington’ , pardon my ignorance on these matters?

[redbyrdz]

Redberet what do you mean by ‘driving a tunnel from Cressington’ , pardon my ignorance on these matters?

Cressington is a station on the Merseyrail line. You could draw a straight line from there to the airport, but it's quite a long way. You'd have to go under Garston docks, the whole Banks road estate, and the industrial estate.

I think it would be easier to branch off the main line somewhere near Jaguar. But both option will.be far too expensive, and in reality shuttle busses would be fine, if you didn't need to pay for them extra.

[bradders1011]

Hovercraft from the Pier Head.

[Statto Red]

Cressington is a stationnon the Merseyrail line. You could draw a straight line from there to the airport, but it's quite a long way. You'd have to go under Garston docks, the whole Banks road estate, and the industrial estate.

I think it would be easier to branch off the main line somewhere near Jaguar. But both option will.be far too expensive, and in reality shuttle busses would be fine, if you didn't need to pay for them extra.

They did have a shuttle bus from Liverpool Airport to Liverpool South Parkway [Arriva 501 using ex London artics] that failed as not many people used it.

[moondog]

Cressington is a station on the Merseyrail line. You could draw a straight line from there to the airport, but it's quite a long way. You'd have to go under Garston docks, the whole Banks road estate, and the industrial estate.

I think it would be easier to branch off the main line somewhere near Jaguar. But both option will.be far too expensive, and in reality shuttle busses would be fine, if you didn't need to pay for them extra.

Cheers, I know Cressington well and yeah it would have to be a long tunnel to avoid all of Garston. Surely a bus is a better option from south parkway as you say.

[gazzalfc]

They have missed a key part of those pictures. The Leather Shop needs to be a part of the plans

[rob1966]

Hovercraft from the Pier Head.

I remember when someone tried to start a Hovercraft service from Southport to Blackpool.

That never took off...

[kavah]

Think the most depressing thing from reading the article was them saying it would make journeys from Liverpool Central to Manchester Airport as short as 25 minutes. Thus making it easier and faster to get to that than the airport in Liverpool.

Dublin, IOM and Belfast are all shorter flights than Speke to Central / Lime street 

[kavah]

They have missed a key part of those pictures. The Leather Shop needs to be a part of the plans

Ha ha - 

[redbyrdz]

They did have a shuttle bus from Liverpool Airport to Liverpool South Parkway [Arriva 501 using ex London artics] that failed as not many people used it.

I think it needs to be a free shuttle bus, probably paid for by the airport. otherwise it won't work. It wouldn't make enough money as it's own bus route.

[Red Beret]

Cressington is a station on the Merseyrail line. You could draw a straight line from there to the airport, but it's quite a long way. You'd have to go under Garston docks, the whole Banks road estate, and the industrial estate.

I think it would be easier to branch off the main line somewhere near Jaguar. But both option will.be far too expensive, and in reality shuttle busses would be fine, if you didn't need to pay for them extra.

Yeah. There used to be a spur from Cressington Station, but now it's part housing estate, part southbound carriage of the Garston bypass.

I do feel that a tunnel is feasible as a long term solution though. I think there's potential for stations close to the Retail Park/Old Airport, and the Speke Hall Industrial Estate, maybe close to the Premier Inn. I think as a direct link from the city centre it works well, but combined with a shuttle bus from South Parkway it would be more effective.

[So… Howard Philips]

The 507 is destined to become a museum piece;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx88nq5jy57o

[Red Beret]

The 507 is destined to become a museum piece;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx88nq5jy57o

Saw it parked up at West Kirby yesterday.  Also heard a 507 by St Michael's station late last night. I wasn't in sight of the station, but the 507s have a distinctive sound.  Wonder if the few they have left are working the graveyard shift on the network?

[Roady]

A new station for Liverpool airport would be great but stupidly expensive . I will never fly from Manchester airport.hate the place with a passion.its worse than Heathrow and that's a shit hole.

[Red Beret]

On a side note, I think expanding Liverpool airport is possible, but it would be expensive.  I think the same company owns both Liverpool and Manchester airports, so they're not interested in having them compete.