Author Topic: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**  (Read 349445 times)

Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5000 on: July 20, 2017, 12:41:31 pm »
As a side issue - when did nerds people start going on about things being 'canon'?

Star Wars fans early 90s when the Internet escaped from Universities.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5001 on: July 20, 2017, 12:43:44 pm »
Or possibly when reboots started.
Would have thought comics and some of the changes there caused 'canon' to spring up?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5002 on: July 20, 2017, 12:45:37 pm »
Or possibly when reboots started.
Would have thought comics and some of the changes there caused 'canon' to spring up?

The Star Wars expanded universe through up lots of contradictions... the Holiday Special especially.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5003 on: July 20, 2017, 12:45:55 pm »
He's UKIP.

Easy mistake to make!

Anyway, I'm very excited because Alison Moyet liked my response to his tweet!

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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5004 on: July 20, 2017, 01:04:37 pm »
Star Wars fans early 90s when the Internet escaped from Universities.

That makes sense. It's all bollocks and has nothing to do with creativity. Artists throughout history have changed things in their stories and artworks as their own ideas develop and the world around them changes.

I suppose it's about the ability to suspend disbelief. There are people who need the 'universe' to be coherent and consistent in order to believe in the story they are being told.
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5005 on: July 20, 2017, 01:42:40 pm »
That makes sense. It's all bollocks and has nothing to do with creativity. Artists throughout history have changed things in their stories and artworks as their own ideas develop and the world around them changes.

I suppose it's about the ability to suspend disbelief. There are people who need the 'universe' to be coherent and consistent in order to believe in the story they are being told.

There is a long precedent for this. Look at Robert A. Heinlein late works using Pantheistic Solipsism to unify his disparate works. Most of it is unreadable pap. See also the late Asimov unification of Foundation and Robots series.

It's self indulgent and generally turns into a nerd wankfest that screws the impact of the original narrative.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5006 on: July 20, 2017, 02:46:23 pm »
I think it's much more interesting to take any work on its individual merits but also to have that separate overview of how art develops and represents it's time.

I remember this storyline from the original season two:



The Zarbies and the Menoptra. Even as a very young kid I knew the costumes were utter shite. And don't even get me started on the Chumblies or the Mechanoids.





They're all 'canon' enemies for the Doctor but they never reappear like the Daleks or the Cybermen because they were laughable and of their time. They look that way because of the budget, a 1960's concept of the future, and for the Chumblies and the Mechanoids, an attempt to come up with an alternative to the Daleks.

And then I keep hearing (probably from people too young to have watched any of the original Hartnell Doctor Who) that a woman as The Doctor will somehow destroy my childhood memories.
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Offline tubby

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5007 on: July 20, 2017, 02:59:45 pm »
But if the Doctor were to be written to kill innocents in cold blood, then that would not be canon, right?  But it would be ok because it's a new creative direction?
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5008 on: July 20, 2017, 06:23:50 pm »
But if the Doctor were to be written to kill innocents in cold blood, then that would not be canon, right?  But it would be ok because it's a new creative direction?

Depends what you mean by "ok" really. Would it be artistically valid? Yes. Might it be entertaining? Yes. Would it be in keeping with the spirit of the programme? No.

Casting a female doctor is not against the spirit of the programme, which has always had a strong message of equality, using intelligence to solve problems and violence only ever as an absolute and regrettable last resort. There's nothing "core" to the concept of the show about the Doc's cock.

As for "canon" it's pretty meaningless for a show like Doctor Who, which has frequently contradicted itself over and over again. The story "The Ark in Space" from the mid-70s, has a plot where the Earth is abandoned for ten thousand years from the year 6087, but there are several other stories taking place on Earth during this period. There are also at least two different explanations for Atlantis.

The various comics, audio dramas and original novels around the show are all supposedly non-canon, except that the Doctor sometimes references them on screen. Does this mean all of them are canon? No, because they also contradict one another, and the show, all the time.
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Offline tubby

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5009 on: July 21, 2017, 10:45:25 am »
Just for the record I've no problem with the Doctor being female, that fits with the ethos of the show and the character and I'd say is canon anyway.  Just think it's good sometimes to have that line you can trace through a character's history where everything fits.  It's like Batman not using guns and never killing, it's really jarring when you see it happen in a movie because canonically(?) he has always been adamant that it's not the way to do things.

If the Doctor suddenly started flying round in a basic spaceship instead of the TARDIS then I'd consider that non-canon.
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5010 on: July 21, 2017, 10:49:25 am »
If the Doctor suddenly started flying round in a basic spaceship instead of the TARDIS then I'd consider that non-canon.

Pertwee stuck on Earth and using Bessie?

Offline tubby

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5011 on: July 21, 2017, 11:30:23 am »
Pertwee stuck on Earth and using Bessie?

That was part of a story where he was separated from the TARDIS though, right?  That's not the same as the Doctor having the TARDIS available and then just deciding to ditch it and drive around the universe in a car that isn't bigger on the inside.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5012 on: July 21, 2017, 11:35:23 am »
With the idea of time travel and the ability to alter anything , I find canon fairly meaningless.
I think it's been said there are fixed points that can't be altered, but as I struggle to even understand the story arcs I may well have that wrong.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5013 on: July 21, 2017, 01:08:30 pm »
Pertwee stuck on Earth and using Bessie?

Don't be knocking that shipping crate, it was actually another Tardis stuck in that shape!

Spoiler

Not.


[close]


To be fair to Pertwee, he turned a lack of props and storyline into enjoyable tales that were only later matched in Wurzel Gummidge
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5014 on: July 21, 2017, 01:09:17 pm »
That was part of a story where he was separated from the TARDIS though, right?  That's not the same as the Doctor having the TARDIS available and then just deciding to ditch it and drive around the universe in a car that isn't bigger on the inside.

No his Tardis was there. It was knackered and literally in pieces. The console was about the only (Slightly) intact bit.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5015 on: July 21, 2017, 06:18:12 pm »
 Lewis John Yule‏ @LewisJohnY2 17m17 minutes ago

So sad to hear of the death of Deborah Watling, who played the companion Victoria in Doctor Who, alongside Patrick Troughton.

She was 69 and died after a short battle with cancer.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 06:19:53 pm by Trada »
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5016 on: July 21, 2017, 06:43:08 pm »
That was part of a story where he was separated from the TARDIS though, right?  That's not the same as the Doctor having the TARDIS available and then just deciding to ditch it and drive around the universe in a car that isn't bigger on the inside.

Sort of. When Partick Troughton left the show in 1969, it was expected to be the end of the series. Moving into colour production would make it far more expensive to produce but by 1970 a black and white sci fi show would have looked ridiculous and the BBC was on a major colour kick.

The compromise was to base the Doctor permanently on Earth so they could save on futuristic sets and alien planets.

In series, this was achieved by the Doctor finally contacting the Time Lords (who were never even mentioned before this point) and being exiled to Earth with his TARDIS dematerialisation circuit disabled and his knowledge of time travel mechanics suppressed.


He was based at UNIT, but the TARDIS was always in the corner of the lab, until he got it working again a bit. Eventually, the Time Lords gave him a pardon after the Three Doctors story, where he saved Gallifrey and he was able to travel again, although he stuck around UNIT for a few years anyway.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5017 on: July 21, 2017, 06:57:46 pm »
I remembered the exiled and time circuit bit (miraculously) but didn't know he had his knoweldge of time travel wiped.
Way to mess with canon.

That tardis, pictured with Deborah, is way better than the current one.

Just remembered, I painted my daughter's bedroom door blue, used bubble wrap for windows and half a plastic cup for the beacon. I'm more of a geek \ whovian than I realised.....
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5018 on: July 23, 2017, 11:43:51 pm »
Does he? We've never seen what's down there. He's an alien with two hearts. It's highly unlikely the Time Lords would have the same genitalia as humans. I can honestly say that in 50 years watching Doctor Who, I have never imagined Doctor Who's cock.

Never watched the Leftovers?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5019 on: July 25, 2017, 10:44:24 am »
Never watched the Leftovers?

No - I've heard good things though.
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5020 on: July 25, 2017, 10:50:36 am »
No - I've heard good things though.

It is very good, although there is a seismic shift in tone between seasons. If ever you watch it, the stocks scene explains my comment.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5021 on: July 25, 2017, 07:01:41 pm »
And cannot be unseen.

Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline [new username under construction]

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5022 on: August 22, 2017, 06:14:44 pm »
Bradley Walsh?

Offline tubby

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5023 on: August 23, 2017, 01:18:33 pm »
Bradley Walsh?

Read that this morning too and I can kind of see it.
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Offline [new username under construction]

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5024 on: August 23, 2017, 01:20:59 pm »
Read that this morning too and I can kind of see it.

I don't mind him actually and from the detective stuff he can act. No idea though if he'll fit

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5026 on: October 23, 2017, 11:13:00 am »
I look forward to not being able to get through 2 minutes of any YouTube review of new episodes without hearing about the 'SJW agenda' being forced on us by 'shadowy liberal media elites'.
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5027 on: October 23, 2017, 11:58:37 am »
Why the hell would you be watching American YouTube reviews of Dr Who?

Twatty UK reviewers will by and large go with Political Correctness Gone Mad.

But as a general guideline, blacklist anyone who uses SJW,  seriously or ironically - it does not matter which neither motivation suggests that that reviewer is worth listening to.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5028 on: October 23, 2017, 12:04:45 pm »
Pleased with Bradley Walsh, been awhile since I have seen him but from what I recall he has a good line in humour, don't know much about the other two companions.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5029 on: October 23, 2017, 05:17:33 pm »
Pleased with Bradley Walsh, been awhile since I have seen him but from what I recall he has a good line in humour, don't know much about the other two companions.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5030 on: October 23, 2017, 08:05:56 pm »
Why the hell would you be watching American YouTube reviews of Dr Who?

I don't and wouldn't really, I've just been mooching about for discussion videos on the new Star Trek/Orville recently and keep running into similar themes (and not just on US videos either).
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5031 on: November 9, 2017, 02:40:38 pm »
Outfit revealed



A touch of the 4th Doctor's scarf colours in the band on the top. The Tardis is new too, apparently, but they all look the same to me.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5032 on: November 9, 2017, 05:16:36 pm »
Without the coat she looks like a kids TV presenter.
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5033 on: November 9, 2017, 07:16:20 pm »
Without the coat she looks like a kids TV presenter.

Rainbow.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5034 on: November 9, 2017, 08:41:15 pm »

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5035 on: November 9, 2017, 09:23:06 pm »
Thanks gazza, that's ruined her whole tenancy for me.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5036 on: November 17, 2017, 09:38:13 pm »
Just seen a preview clip on youtube of the First Doctor entering Capaldi's TARDIS:

Spoiler
Judging from the clip, it looks as though First has only just escaped Gallifrey, as Twelve points out his TARDIS on the scanner and it's still a cylinder, not a police box.  He also says, "Remember where you parked - that will come up a lot."
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5037 on: December 26, 2017, 09:35:12 am »
Nobody watched the Xmas episode then just in case they glimpsed a Doctor they didn't like?

For me it wasn't terrible. I liked the Doctors playing off each other, though the Captain reveal became painfully obvious as they were taking great pains to not even ask his name for the duration. Bill was the best of the recent companions and the brief contrast with Clara really hammered that home.

Apparently the First Doctor's outdated social views are causing a stir (not because he has them, but because they were never so forthright in the show). It was probably a bit much and might have been better led by the Captain. Gave Bill a nice line though.

The only bit that didn't work for me was the 'database' sequence in the middle, which was a jarring shift in tone and I wonder if it was put in to get some explosions to distract the kids.
"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

~ Kenneth Williams, with whom I'm noddingly acquainted. Socially impressed?

Offline JerseyKloppite

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5038 on: December 26, 2017, 10:38:31 pm »
I enjoyed it.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #5039 on: December 27, 2017, 01:22:20 am »
One of the better Christmas specials to be honest.

The first Doctor's 'sexism' was extremely forced and out of place, but everything else was good.
:D