Topic: Jose Manuel Reina

[Stussy]

The fella who has made the complaint Simon Woolley is a Man U season ticket holder.

hahaha I don't know if thats true or not but you've got to love him if it is.

[HarryLabrador]

The fella who has made the complaint Simon Woolley is a Man U season ticket holder.

Is this another of the Steve Rotheram 'backlash' warning to Liverpool?

[shawnk]

The fella who has made the complaint Simon Woolley is a Man U season ticket holder.

Where did you get that info?

[Liverbird 2010]

Is this another of the Steve Rotheram 'backlash' warning to Liverpool?

No I just think this one is bandwagon jumping, he was involved the other week with that other gobshite group where him and the other fella where united fans.

[sinnermichael]

if it wasn't a liverpool player it wouln't even have been reported

[Tom_B]

I have to ask, other than the fact that Pepe is in this "racist" (although I fail to see how) advert, what has it got to do with him?

Did he write it? No. Was it his idea? No.

Chances are, he turned up said "Right what are we doing today lads", they told him, he got on with it and said see you later.

Other than sensationalised bollocks what has the fact that "Liverpool's Pepe Reina" starred in the advert got to do with it?

"Does he think his black team-mates will laugh at his joke?”

How is it his joke?

[Stussy]

No I just think this one is bandwagon jumping, he was involved the other week with that other gobshite group where him and the other fella where united fans.

Yes indeed. I suspect co-ordination.

The response to it should be exactly the one that the club (and we as supporters) gave to the Lee Jasper letter of 'demands' - complete radio silence, in fact, ignore it.

The club needs to be scrupulous and committed to its agenda of social engagement, but any acknowledgment of this bandwagoneering legitimises it.

It might be something they try to perpetuate along with the Guardian and others later, but the way to handle it, is to not handle it.

[McSquared]

there doing it for teh lulz now

non story that is damaging the fight against racism even more as they are turning it into a circus.

I mean, wtf is this? I like his Freudian slip in the last sentence

A concern
Submitted by Simon Woolley on Wed, 29/02/2012 - 17:39.

'The earlier piece and this one reads to me as homophobic.

I would welcome clarification of OBV's stance'.

The ad crudely stereotypes the 'African homosexual King' drooling, impatient to sexually pounce on his 'Queen'.

The ad is wrong on so man levels.

[Haemoglobin]

Having just watched all of them, the most striking thing about these ads is that the top professional footballer starring in them is not totally wooden or self-conscious, as is customary, and delivers his lines with confidence, charm and a self-mocking twinkle in his eye, rather than in a soulless monotone.

[HarryLabrador]

there doing it for teh lulz now

non story that is damaging the fight against racism even more as they are turning it into a circus.

I mean, wtf is this:

A concern
Submitted by Simon Woolley on Wed, 29/02/2012 - 17:39.

'The earlier piece and this one reads to me as homophobic.

I would welcome clarification of OBV's stance'.

The ad crudely stereotypes the 'African homosexual King' drooling, impatient to sexually pounce on his 'Queen'.

The ad is wrong on so man levels.

This guy is one sick pervert, me thinks.

[Liverbird 2010]

Yes indeed. I suspect co-ordination.

If Whoolley didnt work for the Gaurdian this story wouldnt even make the press its gone National ffs.  Its an absolute joke it really is.

[Crosby Nick]

Having just watched all of them, the most striking thing about these ads is that the top professional footballer starring in them is not totally wooden or self-conscious, as is customary, and delivers his lines with confidence, charm and a self-mocking twinkle in his eye, rather than in a soulless monotone.

I thought that! A creer in acting beckons in his retirement!

I have to ask, other than the fact that Pepe is in this "racist" (although I fail to see how) advert, what has it got to do with him?

Did he write it? No. Was it his idea? No.

Chances are, he turned up said "Right what are we doing today lads", they told him, he got on with it and said see you later.

Other than sensationalised bollocks what has the fact that "Liverpool's Pepe Reina" starred in the advert got to do with it?

"Does he think his black team-mates will laugh at his joke?”

How is it his joke?

Exactly.

[Chris Co Down]

Operation Black Vote or Operacion de voto negro as Pepe might say.

If OBV are so concerned about the feelings of how Spaniards might feel if they were culturally stereotyped why don't they ask a certain Fat Spanish Waiter?

[ArcticRed]

My suggestion to Mr Wooley is that we forget Pepe Reina and talk about some real cases of racism, homophobia, racial and cultural stereotyping and hypocricy...

Oh, the irony...

[Stussy]

If Whoolley didnt work for the Gaurdian this story wouldnt even make the press its gone National ffs.  Its an absolute joke it really is.

I mean he's mates with Lee Jasper, whose earlier initiative fell as flat as a spare tyre dropped onto a bed of platinum tipped nails from a helicopter.

Wouldn't be surprised if they take another approach next.

Seriously, best to ignore. The club needs to insulate itself by stepping up what it is doing anyway in terms of community outreach and partnering with those who we can complement in areas of social engagement.

But these lot, no matter how much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Guardian-types, are to be studiously ignored. Zero engagement by club and eventually once this has been discussed to death, by us as supporters too.

[Stussy]

One thing to watch out for by the way - Powar's FARE body doing an 'investigation' on LFC supporters to single us out in a particular way, something along those lines.

The club has to be scrupulous, as do all of our supporters, from Parmjit 'Coconut' Singh to you and me and everyone if that track is played.

[bleedsred1978]

Another storm in a teacup.

Beyond a fucking joke.

[se9R.F.L]

My suggestion to Mr Wooley is that we forget Pepe Reina and talk about some real cases of racism, homophobia, racial and cultural stereotyping and hypocricy...

Oh, the irony...

Ha good find, what an utter twat.

Infuriating that no one picks up on shit like this and calls them on it.

[Chalky Boots]

I mean he's mates with Lee Jasper, whose earlier initiative fell as flat as a spare tyre dropped onto a bed of platinum tipped nails from a helicopter.

Wouldn't be surprised if they take another approach next.

Seriously, best to ignore. The club needs to insulate itself by stepping up what it is doing anyway in terms of community outreach and partnering with those who we can complement in areas of social engagement.

But these lot, no matter how much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Guardian-types, are to be studiously ignored. Zero engagement by club and eventually once this has been discussed to death, by us as supporters too.

Yep, although I don't think it's a fight for us to avoid anyway. Think if anyone it's the insurer, and if they want to get involved then that's their prerogative.


Anyhoo how can an anti racism group get away with themselves being called Operation Black Vote,given if it where "White" vote these same people would be launching their double standards missile right at such a group.

[Liverbird 2010]

I mean he's mates with Lee Jasper,

He certainly is mates with Lee Jasper.  These groups are using LFC my football club and our players by seeing things that are not there to get a platform in spouting racial hate !!!!!

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/15/theirwhippingboy

Change the name Lee Jasper to luis Suarez and the end bit you fucking hypocrit !!!!

We are witnessing the political lynching of Lee Jasper.

Strong and emotive words, I know, but have we ever seen such a daily deluge of attack by the London Evening Standard against one individual over such a sustained period? Ten front pages and over 30 full pages, with the promise of more to come.

I don't believe that the Evening Standard's relentless attack on Lee Jasper is racially motivated. It's not; it's political. They care not one jot how they do it, as long as they get rid of Ken Livinstone

[1021]

It would be absolutely brilliant if even half of the people who have got on their soapboxes with regards to LFC and discrimination actually cared about racism, homophobia, or sexism and the underlying problems the games has with all of these issues, rather than just seeking pathetic digs at out Club, our management, and our players.

This whole fiasco over the last few months will have done more harm to the cause of stamping out inequality and discrimination in the game than it will have done good. And articles like this trivialise the very serious issues that remain.

And as others have said, what is offense about being perceived homosexual? The article says more about the author than it does about Pepe Reina, the organisation he was advertising, and  Liverpool Football Club.

[ChristophLFC]

its starting to get really annoying now, these people are just jumping on the bandwagon to get their 5 mins of fame

i love how the media portray it aswell ''ANOTHER LIVERPOOL PLAYER CAUGHT IN RACE ROW'' ''ITS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS SEASON LUIS SUAREZ BLA BLA BLA'' 

im suprised clark carlisle hasen't been on sky sports news spouting his rubbish.

[danwarb]

if it wasn't a liverpool player it wouln't even have been reported

It's starting to seem that way. There are more than a few people trawling for any negative Liverpool stories now, and a few just making stuff up.

Best just to ignore them until they get fed up, while being aware of how anything might be twisted by people with a special interest in twisting.

[ArgImAPirate]

Even though Reina is a public figure, can he sue for defamation? He's not a racist. The ad doesn't seem racist. It seems slanderous to me, to throw out accusations like that with "what does it say about Pepe Reina." It doesn't say anything about Pepe Reina other than he's poking fun at himself for having a name which translates to "queen." The fact that they're taking offense to being portrayed as gay (which they aren't unless all black people are secretly jungle kings, which is a racist assumption... which this anti-racism group apparently has) seems to me like they're trying to say there's something wrong with being gay.

Now I'm not gay, but surely in this day and age we've got to accept that who we find attractive comes down to who we are not particular choices we make. I don't control it when a pair of tits makes me rock hard, I'm sure gay people don't control it when they see whatever it is that makes men attractive to anyone. They seem to be implying it's a negative lifestyle choice, I think that's homophobic.

Which isn't to say I'm okay with adult to child relationships. More often than not, that's someone praying on an innocent child. Even if it were consensual, a child doesn't have a fully developed mind and until a certain point, I wouldn't trust their decision making. Just going to make that clear, even though it's irrelevant, so nobody throws that out as a counterpoint.

Ultimately, I see this as a group trying to get some exposure to get it's name out. But what they're doing is not ethical. They're complaining about racism when there really just isn't any. And they're being homophobic in the process, yet at the same time slurring Reina for it. I'm not shocked the British media has picked up on it. But I'm disappointed with papers like the Guardian and the BBC website running this like there's something in it. I'd expect it from Sky and the tabloid rags. I guess it's just a sign that fact checking is entirely out the window, because all they would have had to do was watch the video. They've run a nothing story and tried to make it come off as crediblity; journalistic integrity is dying.

[hurricane74]

This is my first post having popped in to read the various posts over the last few years, this is the first time I feel moved to post something.
Having watched the ad last night and again this morning, I can see why OBV and Simon Wooley have taken offence. As a black man I take offence. If people feel there is no racial overtones there then a great deal of  naivety going on or denial. The question I asking myself there are only one 'non white' set of characters in the ad and they are in a stereotypical setting and displayed manner which has been used over and over again in countless films dramas over the years etc.
I'm no great supporter of Simon Wooley, however I respect what he and OBV do, I read an earlier post saying BME groups were over represented at the last election, I'd loved to see the link to that research to see the full transcript. From my memory there are a handful of 'black' (african and caribbean) MPs and 27 MP from BME groups, which doesn't reflect the BME population in the UK. Just because you've never heard of an organisation or heard of the work they do, doesn't mean they are unimportant, their views have no value, or what they say shouldn't be heard. OBV has been going for 15 years, with a view of greater representation of BME groups in both national, local and grassroots level politics. Also to engage the 'black' community around the power they have to affect what happens in their community to get these  issues on the  national agenda. Where I live and work I don't see the 'black' community concerns making onto the national agenda and being taken seriously, so from where I sit OBV is not 'obsolete'
I like many love Pepe as a keeper, however it doesn't mean he can do no wrong. It difficult because none of us were there, however I do feel some alarm bells should have rung,  to say something not right after see the final cut. I do disagree with Simon Wooley by singling Pepe out, my fire is turned to the ad exs, writer and directors who are happy for this to pass and think this is ok, again its the thinking your happy to see certain people decpited in ways without thinking how it impacts on other.
Finally I saw a post (either on here or another forum) saying the 'black' actor were happy to appear in the ad. When you know how hard it is for some 'black' actors to get any work then you'll know why they appeared, we all got to live bottom line.

[Stussy]

He certainly is mates with Lee Jasper.  These groups are using LFC my football club and our players by seeing things that are not there to get a platform in spouting racial hate !!!!!

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/15/theirwhippingboy

Jasper warranted all the attention he got. He seemed to believe that he had impunity from scrutiny as someone in public life. And what a treasure trove was found on him. So yeah, Simon Wooley is his associate and advocate, and heaven knows, Lee Jasper and Simon Wooley need a way to get back on the gravy train again.

The club should do nothing to even blink in their direction, nor should any of us after this has been debated.

[Armand9]

This is my first post having popped in to read the various posts over the last few years, this is the first time I feel moved to post something.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

This is my first post having popped in to read the various posts over the last few years, this is the first time I feel moved to post something.

Having watched the ad last night and again this morning, I can see why OBV and Simon Wooley have taken offence. As a black man I take offence. If people feel there is no racial overtones there then a great deal of  naivety going on or denial. The question I asking myself there are only one 'non white' set of characters in the ad and they are in a stereotypical setting and displayed manner which has been used over and over again in countless films dramas over the years etc.

I'm no great supporter of Simon Wooley, however I respect what he and OBV do, I read an earlier post saying BME groups were over represented at the last election, I'd loved to see the link to that research to see the full transcript. From my memory there are a handful of 'black' (african and caribbean) MPs and 27 MP from BME groups, which doesn't reflect the BME population in the UK.

 Just because you've never heard of an organisation or heard of the work they do, doesn't mean they are unimportant, their views have no value, or what they say shouldn't be heard. OBV has been going for 15 years, with a view of greater representation of BME groups in both national, local and grassroots level politics. Also to engage the 'black' community around the power they have to affect what happens in their community to get these  issues on the  national agenda. Where I live and work I don't see the 'black' community concerns making onto the national agenda and being taken seriously, so from where I sit OBV is not 'obsolete'
I like many love Pepe as a keeper, however it doesn't mean he can do no wrong.

 It difficult because none of us were there, however I do feel some alarm bells should have rung,  to say something not right after see the final cut. I do disagree with Simon Wooley by singling Pepe out, my fire is turned to the ad exs, writer and directors who are happy for this to pass and think this is ok, again its the thinking your happy to see certain people decpited in ways without thinking how it impacts on other.

Finally I saw a post (either on here or another forum) saying the 'black' actor were happy to appear in the ad. When you know how hard it is for some 'black' actors to get any work then you'll know why they appeared, we all got to live bottom line.

So there's no black Tribes in Africa who are oblivious to modern civilisation, you mean all those documentaries lied to me?

[B_I_F]

Call me daft but am i missing something here?!

I've watched that clip about 6 times and I'm still scratching my head as to what part of the advert is racist or in fact depicting anything homosexual?

 

Well, even if it is homosexual, asking "how would the Spanish feel if the English stereotyped Spanish people as backward, stupid, and animalistic homosexuals?" seems a bit homophobic... He really makes it sound as if homosexuality is something very negative.

[davidg]

[Arathrael]

The question I asking myself there are only one 'non white' set of characters in the ad and they are in a stereotypical setting and displayed manner which has been used over and over again in countless films dramas over the years etc.

So you didn't even notice the educated black interpreter in the ad?

Yeah, right. Obvious troll is obvious.

[macca888]

Finally I saw a post (either on here or another forum) saying the 'black' actor were happy to appear in the ad. When you know how hard it is for some 'black' actors to get any work then you'll know why they appeared, we all got to live bottom line.

Forget about the rest of your post, suffice to say if you genuinely are offended by the advert then it is your right to have that opinion. However I will just take you to task on the point I've quoted above. So you think it is OK for black actors to star in what you think is an inherently racist advert because they can't find work anywhere else? You think the pittance they probably earned for this advert as extras was enough for them to effectively betray their families and the wider black community at large? You think that what really happened is that all of the black people in this advert thought "Oh well, I'm going to be laughed at and ridiculed and further oppressed by possibly racist white people, castigated by the black community for helping to exacerbate racism in society and help to promote disgusting racial stereotyping. But it's OK, I'll bottle up my true feelings and not care for the negative consequences because I'll be able to eat egg and chips tonight." If that is genuinely what you think, your views of fellow black men is disgusting, and no better than calling them any of the various names that black people call what they consider to be black traitors to the black community.

[fefs]

Indeed. How someone can go from Pepes appearance in an ad to the balance of representation as if they are somehow related is beyond me.

[Stussy]

hurricane, the only thing is, I really do think there is an awfully large amount of naked cynicism involved in Wooley using this to try to attack LFC, in light of his participation in the Lee Jasper list of 'demands'. It really is a case of band wagon jumping by identity politicians and organisations, and it all stems from the mess of the Suarez affair. To be frank, it appears vindictive, political and cynical, not to mention irrational, especially in the light of how LFC have now drawn a line under the whole car crash that was the FA's process on Suarez and Evra.

Its good to be cynical - its especially to be good to be cynical when characters like Lee Jasper is involved, and when Simon Wooley involves himself in a risible piece of grandstanding like this.

 

[SadRed]

The story is already forgotten. Nowhere in mainstream press now. Just keep quiet and all is well again,

[scatman]

so basically this group are saying being homosexual is wrong?? I mean that's my interpretation of it...

[Butter Keks]

The story is already forgotten. Nowhere in mainstream press now. Just keep quiet and all is well again,

That shouldn't have to be the case though. Let's all ignore this and it will go away is a large part of why racism is so rife in the first place!!!

[subroc]

The more attention we give to the PR addicted lobby groups and the media, the more this story will run. We shuld just ignore it - the media will move on to other targets.

[Armand9]

Well, even if it is homosexual, asking "how would the Spanish feel if the English stereotyped Spanish people as backward, stupid, and animalistic homosexuals?" seems a bit homophobic... He really makes it sound as if homosexuality is something very negative.

I think the most damning content of that statement is that he's the one that suggests an African tribal society is 'backward and stupid', of which there are many, most well know probably being the Masai. There is nothing in that ad that suggests the tribe is 'backward or stupid', the only suggestion is the king has a liking for the 'queen'.

I think Woolly is an idiot c*nt on many levels, including his attitudes towards African tribes who have not adopted a western-ised culture.

[Stussy]

The story is already forgotten. Nowhere in mainstream press now. Just keep quiet and all is well again,

This!! ^^^^

might be a time to put this discussion to sleep.