Topic: Systems - Mindgames

[Paul JH]

It wasn't Masch being a 'bastard' that made him good mate.

It was his speed over the ground and ability to cover either fullback that made him good.

But also the fact that he had a gob on him. Too few of our players do.

[El Lobo]

It can't help the mentality of the mentioned players either when they look around now.

Just like us, they don't see Sami Hyypia, mountainous in the defence. They don't see Mascherano, terrier like biting away at any player who dared enter his zone. They don't see Torres tearing defences to shreds so easily with one burst of searing pace. They don't see Alonso spraying the ball anywhere on the park, effortlessly.

Is it any wonder the likes of Reina, Gerrard and Agger aren't what they were in those seasons? They've seen world class, amazing team-mates replaced with average, nervous boys. And through no lack of money either.

If we don't at least try to sign world class players, what chance do we have of getting to a level where world class players are required?

[decky]

Putting the ball in the fucking net is the problem.


Mentality is never an issue when we score early, and get a 2-0 lead. Against City and Arsenal it could be excused, but clubs are at least a level or two above us.

If Suarez scores half the chances last night Zenit are deflated, and lose the heart for the battle.
Same against WBA, we score 2 or 3 and it becomes a damage limitation excercise for them, rather than them riding out their luck, and rethinking, I hope we don't get battered, becomes, get Lukaku on, we can win this.

I think maybe this is why a lot of managers focus on being hard to beat when they come in to a new club. Build the foundation from the back and set the team up not to concede. This builds confidence and then the team can move forward and become more expansive. Rodgers has tried to build this team from the front, probably to try and address our severe lack of goals and now we have no foundation defensively. This is bound to have an effect on the confidence of the players

[El Lobo]

If Suarez scores half the chances last night Zenit are deflated, and lose the heart for the battle.
Same against WBA, we score 2 or 3 and it becomes a damage limitation excercise for them, rather than them riding out their luck, and rethinking, I hope we don't get battered, becomes, get Lukaku on, we can win this.

Thats not true though mate.

Against Everton, Suarez scoring twice should have destroyed them. If anything, it reinvigorated them. Same against Arsenal. I know they say a 2-0 is a dangerous scoreline, and I agree to an extent. But teams fancy themselves against us, as long as there's any possible chance of a result. It wasnt like that before.

[L666KOP]

Thats not true though mate.

Against Everton, Suarez scoring twice should have destroyed them. If anything, it reinvigorated them. Same against Arsenal. I know they say a 2-0 is a dangerous scoreline, and I agree to an extent. But teams fancy themselves against us, as long as there's any possible chance of a result. It wasnt like that before.

That's down to the coaching staff though do you not agree?
We have a fragile backline at the moment, for whatever reason, we need to get the players to understand that 2 is not enough, 3 is not enough, 4 is not enough, we need to start fucking teams over and not getting to a point where we think the game is won and get the cigars out.
The top teams keep going, and going. We need to be crushing our opposition. When we score we should ram home our advantage, but we don't, we let teams back in.

[L666KOP]

I think maybe this is why a lot of managers focus on being hard to beat when they come in to a new club. Build the foundation from the back and set the team up not to concede. This builds confidence and then the team can move forward and become more expansive. Rodgers has tried to build this team from the front, probably to try and address our severe lack of goals and now we have no foundation defensively. This is bound to have an effect on the confidence of the players

All we needed during the summer was a 20 a season striker, and an able back up for Lucas, it was unanimous on RAWK.

But instead of going out and getting an 'RVP' and a 'Mulumbu' we spunked our money on players that we didn't need.

[BigRed100]

See this is why I'm not so sure it's down to the players as much as we might think. Kuyt, Bellamy and Maxi were here last year and we had similar games where we dominated but still lost. It isn't this season's problem only

Agree, a valid point. Problem last year to some extent was I think a lack of direction/system from Kenny. It was very much a case of letting the players out onto the pitch and allowing them to express themselves, without having a rigid, defined system to fall back on. Of course now it's the opposite - players are being coached so much in terms of the system that stressing the importance of character and mentality is sacrificed for the perceived "greater good" of Rodgers' system. The problem is the "system" relies on having the right type of player to fill the roles, clearly something which at the moment is lacking. We know investment is important, and FSG will spend money based, again, on a perceived system - getting players in who fit the model, and have a definite re-sale value in the future. The problem here is that this doesn't fill the gaps today and we are clearly a team lacking in leadership - something in my opinion which can't be taught, but which comes about primarily through experience. It's the lack of experience in the team which leads to a lack of leadership, thus a lack of mentality.

[decky]

All we needed during the summer was a 20 a season striker, and an able back up for Lucas, it was unanimous on RAWK.

But instead of going out and getting an 'RVP' and a 'Mulumbu' we spunked our money on players that we didn't need.

I agree with you but also an RVP won't come to us until we're in the CL

[El Lobo]

That's down to the coaching staff though do you not agree?
We have a fragile backline at the moment, for whatever reason, we need to get the players to understand that 2 is not enough, 3 is not enough, 4 is not enough, we need to start fucking teams over and not getting to a point where we think the game is won and get the cigars out.
The top teams keep going, and going. We need to be crushing our opposition. When we score we should ram home our advantage, but we don't, we let teams back in.

The game should be over at 2-0 though, it should be enough in big games.

Yeah it definitely is the coaching staff, but again I don't think we have the same personalities on the pitch that we did and we need to try and revive a bit of that. Selling Kuyt and Bellamy, and bringing in a meek young Welsh kid and a quiet young Italian as well as bringing through some nice English boys has done serious damage to any fighting spirit we had.

It makes me think (shamefully), as I have in the past, that the bloke we've got out on loan might be useful on occassion. Stick him up top when defending a lead, lump balls at him. Hold it up. Win throw ins and corners, time waste. Against Arsenal, immediately after the goal was when we needed to camp out in the opposition half and waste a bit of time, but we had no-one capable.

[steveeastend]

All we needed during the summer was a 20 a season striker, and an able back up for Lucas, it was unanimous on RAWK.

But instead of going out and getting an 'RVP' and a 'Mulumbu' we spunked our money on players that we didn't need.

We are very good in that, it´s been going on for years now, and it brings up the same questions over and over again.

[abhred]

See this is why I'm not so sure it's down to the players as much as we might think. Kuyt, Bellamy and Maxi were here last year and we had similar games where we dominated but still lost. It isn't this season's problem only

You could say that, but those players (especially Kuyt and Bellamy) were instrumental in us getting to two finals, and winning one. They performed when it counted, and that's what we need.

You could take a look at Juventus, who were in a similar situation two years. They did well, bought very wisely, players like Vidal, but who has been their most important player? Pirlo, a proven winner, and arguably best midfielder in form in Europe right now. And he's 33. Will we ever take a risk? If Alonso or Lampard are available in the summer, will we take that risk?

[didi]

We have been like tis since 09-10 season, its nothing new

[El Lobo]

All we needed during the summer was a 20 a season striker, and an able back up for Lucas, it was unanimous on RAWK.

But instead of going out and getting an 'RVP' and a 'Mulumbu' we spunked our money on players that we didn't need.

Thats where we need experienced help for Rodgers.

[L666KOP]

I agree with you but also an RVP won't come to us until we're in the CL

I agree to an extent, City attracted players, we'd have to wave the cash a bit I agree.
But if we could have got a big name striker in for 25 million, and paid him 1ook a week, we'd have been in a lot stronger position than we are now.
We've spent an awful lot of money since the Carroll window, but not added to the poistions we were desperately light in.

[HighSix]

For all the talk of youth or mentality being an issue the the spine of our team (Reina, Johnston, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas, Gerrard & Suarez) are not kids & be it for us or their countries I have seen them display strong mentality & leadership. Thats a pretty mentally strong group of players. Maybe motivation is the issue along with lack of creative talent & tactics in the final third.

[gandalf50]

you go one behind you try harder to equalise you leave gaps mentally you are striving too hard, mentally they are on a high. We also sometimes score fairly soon after we get one, its getting the one that is our mental hang up. If we score early we generally get a few, if we dont the mentality on and off the pitch drops and becomes negative, this for me is created by the fear of us losing again its a downward spiral !

But is that not a sign that we are not controlling our reactions to negative and positive occurrences during the games?
If this is happenning game after game, then it is obvious that it is not being discussed in training or even being looked at during the games. The really obvious outlier is the Everton match with the tactical change at half time.

[Vulmea]

Mentality ??

Hmmmm.

The more I try and analyse this, the more I think we're just not good enough.

The last time that going a goal down didn't cause a problem was 08-09.

And the side then was man for man light years ahead of what we have now.

Perhaps it's time we started to realise that it might not be the mentality that's dropped. Just the quality that put's the shirt on every week.

Life is rarely simple - its never going to be down to just one thing

Confidence and focus for me are both lacking and whilst they should come from within the players its down to Rodgers to make it work.

We've suffered against teams with poorer 'quality' than us as well as better quality. We have some genuinely world class players in our side that are not performing as world class players. We have some very good players who aren't performing to their level either and we have some kids, prospects and average players but we have the capability to be a very good side and beat any other team in the league.

The average age of our side has been very young that leads to inconsistency but that does not explain how mentallly fragile we are.

Defensively we have been poor and continue to be poor - we dont seem to have learned anything all season - we are still incredibly weak through the middle, we still struggle against a big target man and we have no real control against a counter attack - these are all down to coaching. Rodgers has opted for an an expansive style of play - split the centrebacks , ask Lucas to drop deep - its not working he needs to fix it. It worries me that he hasn't. Its causing mayhem with our mentality because we know we can't keep a clean sheet. There can be no confidence in the side when it knows we can concede at any given moment.

The we have the clubs approach to this season - it was written off before we kicked a ball - its  transitional - it was about cutting wages, reshaping the age profile - providing what Ayre called the best 'balance' in the prem  - when those types of considerations take precedence over actually building a side that works - when we dont have Bellamy or Kuyt on the bench becuse they dont fit the age profile of the side and instead we have  a 15 year old playing in the league cup - then you know that achieving anything is going to be difficult - there is no focus on the pitch  its all about the board room - without that focus then you'll be inconsistent.

Next we have Rodgers a young manager with very limited experience - especially limited around getting the best from world class or very good players - with due respect he's worked with youngsters and average players - he has his foibles and mannerisms - he has a way of 'managing' that does not necessarily work with the players he has - he does not carry the weight of respect that he needs currently - that probaly means he is not getting the best from his players - he needs to learn that.

the amount of talking a side does is often an indicator of two things confidence and togetherness - we dont do it anywhere near enough - for the armchair fans it means nothing - they rarely see or hear it on their tele's but in the real game its worth an extra man - we play against teams that have that extra man when we dont - partly thats down to us not being a team but a group of individuals - we aren't focussd on the game but on individual performances - again for me this is something Rodgers has to crack.

Next we have the actual players - they know this is a transitional season, they know that half of them will be gone next season, they know they are being asked to carry youngsters and fill ins and get by this year because we are building for next year. They've been fed targets and goals which we've missed - we've been incredibly poor in games we should have won, far far too often we've played for 45 minutes and packed up. there is no focus on the pitch  about the result only about the performance - and you get what you measure - BR wants performance - he gets it  -  ther have been only two or three games this year that he could take nothing from - we've played well or dominated parts of virtually every game we've played - if the focus was on results we'd get better results.

Sterling exemplifies all of this for me - he's been a passenger for me virtually from day one - he's a PR and marketing exercise - he's got great potential but he's done next to nothing on the pitch - what he has done is gain experience, get the feel for the team, the game at the next level - but in terms of assists, and goals virtually nothing. If we genuinely were concenrtrating on this season he wouldn't be near the team except as an occasional impact sub. He's one of our most played players this season and then we wonder why we dont score.

Suarez, Gerrrad et al know they are carrying Sterling - they know we're playing a man down, that its Carra's last season, that Reina and Skrtel are probably off, that Downing is bulk standard average and not good enough for a top 4 side - that we have no cover for Lucas, we are struggling at left back - they know better than us that we are building for tomorrow not today. When you know that deep down its hard to focus.

Then there is the game itself - if it goes our way great but as soon as it doesn't we crumble - its because there is no confidence and no focus on the game. We've seen how Joe Allen plays when he's confident and when' he's not - and Henderson and Skrtel and Luis there is a world of diffference

So we have a team thats focussed on next year and lacks the confidence to perform this year - thats a recipe for disaster and we've had it.

Rodgers has to do two things - improve the defence and concentrate on each individual game and its result - not the performance. I believe he should have done that from the off - he's wasted good will and time doing the theory with no guarantee of future benefit - some call it brave others naive either way I've never seen it as necessary and it hasn't worked out well enough.

We are where we are - he still needs to finish as high as he can - I doubt he's going to change things now though but what I'd like to see is how he intends to improve the defencesive shape -

 I do think the expectation level at Liverpool carries it own problems but we need a manager and team that are comfortable with it we haven't had that for a while

[subroc]

as i said in the other thread "I am not convinced that the players lack fight in them. When the chips are down and you conceede unexpectedly, your abiltiy to recover and regainm the initiaitve depends more on your ability as a team to (1) switch play and find another way past their massed defence to score the goal ythat you have been failing to score for the entire match up till then - i.e. Plan B (2) your confidence as a team that you are able to do it.

The problem is that while we have been drilled to play pass and move well by Rodgers, we do not have a Plan B at all. We just continue playing the same way but to an increased levek of desperation. Then in our desperation to score, we concede another goal and then heads droop and we do not believe we can regain parity let alone win.

I wonder if Rodgers is more of a coach than he is a manager. By that I mean that he knows how to form up the team and train them to play well, but he is less astute when it comes to the tactical part of the game. With Benitez for example, the team knew that he had the capacity to pull a rabbit out of the hat and to totally changet the system from game to game or even during the game to win. Do the players believe that Rodgers can do that? I think their performance shows that they may not."

[Solomon Grundy]

Its much more what the fans are going to do about it. Anfield silent as the grave, or whispers growing to shouts and dog's abuse. Players and the manager are human, they need us in this time of growth and adversity more than ever.

We give them confidence. We give them the steel to fight back. We give them the time to learn from mistakes and become great.


“These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in the crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it NOW, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.”  (Thomas Paine)

I think that's part of the problem. We aren't doing our bit but, I echo the sentiments of those who say we need to buy more leaders, more winners. Newcastle have done it for peanuts in signing players like Debuchy, Cabaye and Mbiwa who have all won the league in their country. If they can do it why can't we?

[gandalf50]

That's down to the coaching staff though do you not agree?
We have a fragile backline at the moment, for whatever reason, we need to get the players to understand that 2 is not enough, 3 is not enough, 4 is not enough, we need to start fucking teams over and not getting to a point where we think the game is won and get the cigars out.
The top teams keep going, and going. We need to be crushing our opposition. When we score we should ram home our advantage, but we don't, we let teams back in.

I am not so sure. It would be nice to kill every team we come up against. But the standard in this league at the minute are the current league leaders and in a lot of games this season they have gone 1 or 2 up and then shut up shop by bring on 2 or 3 extra defenders.
We don`t know how to do that and haven`t for a few seasons.

[Solomon Grundy]

It wasn't Masch being a 'bastard' that made him good mate.

It was his speed over the ground and ability to cover either fullback that made him good.

What i'd give to have him back. Awesome little fecker. Barca don't even use him in his best position.

[Fat Scouser]

Losing has became acceptable. It's what happens when players win the lottery every time they get their wages. But as for the faults on the pitch... it's been getting discussed since pre-season. Loads of opinions and theories, but it's the same mistake, being made over and over, that is doing us in.
At first it was getting used to playing with the fullbacks pushed on and the centre halves being split, and over doing it at the back. Now it's more concentration, and turning off for a couple of seconds. But it's all a syptom of the same malady. So, it's easily fixed. And I'd be far more worried if it was a different mistake every game.

Look back over the season, we dominate possession, play some nice football, and get twatted on the break. Or we turn off for a few seconds, or put ourselves under pressure for no reason by arsing about with the ball. It's teething troubles. It was always going to happen. It was always going to be a transitional season. It's a shame we couldn't have hung in the cups and onto the leaders, while we go through it. But, with a few bob and a bit more time, Brendan should be able to correct the things that are doing us in.

I understand people are frustrated and worried that Brendan can't fix what's wrong. But the tantrum throwing has got to stop. We're at the crossroads, again. Last season we ripped up Kenny's plans and shipped him and some of his players out. We can't afford to do that again. If we do, we are doomed to becoming a Villa type club. If it doesn't work out by the end of Brendan's contract, fair enough. We start again. But throw him out now (Which isn't going to happen anyway) and we are doomed to becoming a run of the mill, middle of the league, once great also ran.

We need to get back to our old ways. Back the manager, give him time and money. If it doesn't work, thank him for his efforts and move on. At least that would keep us attractive to a top manager. Keep throwing fellas out after one season, and no manager of any caliber is going to touch us. Besides, we've got a good manager. Give the lad a chance.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

You know what could give the players a lift and some spring in their step?

A roaring, singing, clapping Anfield. Anyone's spirit is higher at a rock concert than at a fucking funeral.

[gandalf50]

Next we have the actual players - they know this is a transitional season, they know that half of them will be gone next season, they know they are being asked to carry youngsters and fill ins and get by this year because we are building for next year. They've been fed targets and goals which we've missed - we've been incredibly poor in games we should have won, far far too often we've played for 45 minutes and packed up. there is no focus on the pitch  about the result only about the performance - and you get what you measure - BR wants performance - he gets it  -  ther have been only two or three games this year that he could take nothing from - we've played well or dominated parts of virtually every game we've played - if the focus was on results we'd get better results.

Sterling exemplifies all of this for me - he's been a passenger for me virtually from day one - he's a PR and marketing exercise - he's got great potential but he's done next to nothing on the pitch - what he has done is gain experience, get the feel for the team, the game at the next level - but in terms of assists, and goals virtually nothing. If we genuinely were concenrtrating on this season he wouldn't be near the team except as an occasional impact sub. He's one of our most played players this season and then we wonder why we dont score.

Suarez, Gerrrad et al know they are carrying Sterling - they know we're playing a man down, that its Carra's last season, that Reina and Skrtel are probably off, that Downing is bulk standard average and not good enough for a top 4 side - that we have no cover for Lucas, we are struggling at left back - they know better than us that we are building for tomorrow not today. When you know that deep down its hard to focus.

Then there is the game itself - if it goes our way great but as soon as it doesn't we crumble - its because there is no confidence and no focus on the game. We've seen how Joe Allen plays when he's confident and when' he's not - and Henderson and Skrtel and Luis there is a world of diffference

So we have a team thats focussed on next year and lacks the confidence to perform this year - thats a recipe for disaster and we've had it.

Rodgers has to do two things - improve the defence and concentrate on each individual game and its result - not the performance. I believe he should have done that from the off - he's wasted good will and time doing the theory with no guarantee of future benefit - some call it brave others naive either way I've never seen it as necessary and it hasn't worked out well enough.

We are where we are - he still needs to finish as high as he can - I doubt he's going to change things now though but what I'd like to see is how he intends to improve the defencesive shape -

 I do think the expectation level at Liverpool carries it own problems but we need a manager and team that are comfortable with it we haven't had that for a while

The trouble is when these players leave, God knows what he will bring in to replace them.

[rtdh]

I don't think mentality is the problem.

I think coaching and strategy is the problem.

I think mentality is the problem, when you consider that we have let leads do down the tubes so many times

TActics cannot be to blame when the players are clearly dropping their level because they are in the lead.

They are coasting mentally mate, and the opposition knows it...

[subroc]

Iti s easy to say that the players don't have the bottle, but like that old crack about the team not being "lucky", it obscures the true culprits and makes it harder to solve the problem and enables the finger to be pointed at some scapegoats instead.

Who brought those players in, though? Who is selecting them? Who is stocking so many youth players in the first team at the expense of more expensive but more stable older players? Who is motivating those players?

The coaches and manager bear their share of the responsibility in this regard, and it is not unfair to point this out rather than to join the mob with pitchforks wanting to string up the players.

[Vulmea]

The trouble is when these players leave, God knows what he will bring in to replace them.

We'll have to wait and see on that but whoever they are they will need to be given some time - Henderson has been tremendous of late when he was written off by many - Lucas was a favourite of the boo boys - everybody is learning - I dont think we'll be scared of spending a few bob on good players

[gandalf50]

It wasn't Masch being a 'bastard' that made him good mate.

It was his speed over the ground and ability to cover either fullback that made him good.

But Lucas did this very well when Flanagan and Robinson first came into the squad in the second half of the season after Hodgson was sacked. The following season the system was changed and his role did not seem to inclde protecting the fullbacks.

[Mutton Geoff]

Ask not what they can do for us, ask what we can do for them!

The team and perhaps manager lack confidence right now, and we have a choice we can either try to help them regain this confidence by supporting them unconditionally and loudly in the ground and in forums,  or we can bitch about them and kick them while they are down. Personally i know which one would be the best way we can help them and us.

So you all need to decide how you want to deal with this problem which affects all of us, from the owners to a first season fan.

 It has to be your choice.

[Fat Scouser]

But Lucas did this very well when Flanagan and Robinson first came into the squad in the second half of the season after Hodgson was sacked. The following season the system was changed and his role did not seem to inclde protecting the fullbacks.

Too much pressure was heaped on Lucas. I'm surprised the lad isn't a gibbering wreck. First he was the anti-christ-footballer. Then he's the second coming. But the lad is coming back on the back of two career threatening injuries. We've got to show a bit more patience and support.

I'm one of them that would prefer they got a boot up the arse, not an arm round the shoulder. But constantly moaning, and especially booing at the match, can only make matters worse. Never thought I'd see Liverpool fans going like this. Well, the thought never entered my head until recent times. There was no need to think like that. Reds, turning on the team and manager, unthinkable. But it's became the new Liverpool Way. I just hope we can stop it before it sees us cemented as an also ran. But I sometimes doubt it.

[L666KOP]

But Lucas did this very well when Flanagan and Robinson first came into the squad in the second half of the season after Hodgson was sacked. The following season the system was changed and his role did not seem to inclde protecting the fullbacks.

Masch was exceptional at this particular role simply because he was a hell of a lot quicker over the ground than most gave him credit for.
Lucas, whilst being a better 'reader' of the game does not have the 'recovery' pace that Masch had.
The system I think should carry a lot more of the blame than it currently does, not Brendans in particular, but the fact we seem to switch it every time we stumble.
I make no bones about the fact that I much prefer the rigid 4231 that Rafa employed, quick incisive counter attacking football, and the ability to have absolute control over the game whether we had the ball or not.
The one player we were missing to make it an all conquering side was the one player we currently rely on.

[amoh]

Losing has became acceptable. It's what happens when players win the lottery every time they get their wages. But as for the faults on the pitch... it's been getting discussed since pre-season. Loads of opinions and theories, but it's the same mistake, being made over and over, that is doing us in.
At first it was getting used to playing with the fullbacks pushed on and the centre halves being split, and over doing it at the back. Now it's more concentration, and turning off for a couple of seconds. But it's all a syptom of the same malady. So, it's easily fixed. And I'd be far more worried if it was a different mistake every game.

Look back over the season, we dominate possession, play some nice football, and get twatted on the break. Or we turn off for a few seconds, or put ourselves under pressure for no reason by arsing about with the ball. It's teething troubles. It was always going to happen. It was always going to be a transitional season. It's a shame we couldn't have hung in the cups and onto the leaders, while we go through it. But, with a few bob and a bit more time, Brendan should be able to correct the things that are doing us in.

I understand people are frustrated and worried that Brendan can't fix what's wrong. But the tantrum throwing has got to stop. We're at the crossroads, again. Last season we ripped up Kenny's plans and shipped him and some of his players out. We can't afford to do that again. If we do, we are doomed to becoming a Villa type club. If it doesn't work out by the end of Brendan's contract, fair enough. We start again. But throw him out now (Which isn't going to happen anyway) and we are doomed to becoming a run of the mill, middle of the league, once great also ran.

We need to get back to our old ways. Back the manager, give him time and money. If it doesn't work, thank him for his efforts and move on. At least that would keep us attractive to a top manager. Keep throwing fellas out after one season, and no manager of any caliber is going to touch us. Besides, we've got a good manager. Give the lad a chance.

There's a ridiculous amount of sense in that post, mate.
With regards to mentality, though, I think it's a definite problem.  The past couple of years, irrespective of who the manager has been, has seen us sign a raft of players of varying quality.  Suarez aside, all seem to share one characteristic, though: they all seem like 'nice' lads.  It's something that definitely needs to be reviewed in the summer for me.  We've lost Arbeloa, Hyypia, Alonso, Hamann, Mascherano, Kuyt, Bellamy and Torres over the last few years.  All different characters; but characters nonetheless.  Players who took defeat as a personal insult; who battled and fought to resuce situations that seemed beyond repair and did it consistently.

This current team looks nervous in leading positions and once we go a goal or two down the situation invariably ends up being irretrievable.  From a purely technical point of view, there could be an argument that Downing is an upgrade on somebody like Kuyt; but who's the more likely to contribute to a team's success on a regular basis?  Who's the player likely to give his all and never accept defeat, cajoling and inspiring his teammates in the process?  I've been on Reina's case at times the past couple of years.  But when you look at the situation the likes of him are in: imagine going over the course of a few years from playing in a team that was one of Europe's best, in a team that had the mental fortitude to go anywhere in the world and get a result, to playing in a team where the burden of representing Liverpool lays heavy on far too many in this squad.

One of the biggest challenges we face when it comes to improving the squad is to shake up the mentality of this team.  Whether they're 33 or 23, we need to bring in players not only with ability but with conviction, a mental resolve and perhaps one or two absolute bastards to shake things up and create some healthy tension in that dressing room.  If you were beating Joe Allen in an uphill cycling race and broke down due to a puncture, he'd catch up, jump off his bike and give you a hand probably.  Mascherano would pull up, slash your good trye and kick you in a ditch.  For all the balance that's required between attack and defence - this is just as important.

[L666KOP]

@ Vulmea.

Excellent post mate.
I'll do my best to give a response your post deserves later this evening when I have more time.
 

[horne]

You know what could give the players a lift and some spring in their step?

A roaring, singing, clapping Anfield. Anyone's spirit is higher at a rock concert than at a fucking funeral.

its something that does need sorting out
and within our control

[Stan.]

Thats not true though mate.

Against Everton, Suarez scoring twice should have destroyed them. If anything, it reinvigorated them. Same against Arsenal. I know they say a 2-0 is a dangerous scoreline, and I agree to an extent. But teams fancy themselves against us, as long as there's any possible chance of a result. It wasnt like that before.

The problem is, sides tend to raise their games against big clubs.  Unfortunately we're a big club with a load of small club players and have been for some time. 

The OP is correct, it's not just ability, it's mentality (although with the best players that comes hand in hand).  Take Downing for example; he's finally showing the form he did at Villa, it just happens to have come after he's been told he can leave and the club's season is effectively over.  He's an average player anyway, but the fact he only comes good when the pressure's off is no use to us at all - not a Liverpool player in a million years.  Sadly you can say the same about a lot of our squad, many of whom would probably excel at smaller clubs.

[Fat Scouser]

Without doubt, mentality plays it's part. But when players become rich every week, regardless of results, this is what's bound to happen. Players are mecenaries. They pull their shirts over their heads because they want to remember what badge they're kissing this season/week. Expecting them to just develop some sense of responsibility isn't going to happen. Maybe, it would be an idea to bring the old win bonus back. But I don't think it would make that much difference, when the kids in the academy are already set for life. In fact, it's a wonder they don't all turn out like Gazza. Just the way it is nowadays and finding 11 Tommy Smith's and Ian Callaghan's is never going happen.

[L666KOP]

I am not so sure. It would be nice to kill every team we come up against. But the standard in this league at the minute are the current league leaders and in a lot of games this season they have gone 1 or 2 up and then shut up shop by bring on 2 or 3 extra defenders.
We don`t know how to do that and haven`t for a few seasons.

It would be nice yes, and it won't work every time.

In my younger days I went on a coaching awareness course, I was shit at football btw but was invited along because I showed 'promise' from a coaching standpoint.
One of the areas that were touched upon was the vulnerability a team shows for the 5 minutes after a goal is scored.
With the common misconception that a team is most succeptible for the period after they've scored a goal, the lecturers taking our course reckoned this was bollocks, it's the team that concedes the goal that is the most vulnerable.
They're immediately on the back foot.
There's often an onfield post mortem going on.
Players will be constantly looking at the bench for any game changing direction.
If coached in the usual manner, they will be 'taking 5' and setting themselves for a push to score themselves.

This, we were told is the time to go for the throat. And we've had this happen to us a few times this season, a team scores against us, then keeps the pressure on and invariably scores again, pretty much knocking the fight out of us.

[horne]

when you are taking your chances ,evrything else seems to work...it doesnt get the spotlight on it...
its been the problem for a few years now...goals...taking chances...it wasnt until sturridge arrived that things changed uptop....and it changes again when hes out...it really is that simple...score goals...and youre defenders wont be getting into the situations theyre getting themselves into

[mkingdon]

We lack leaders, but more importantly we lack experience.  Gerrard has never been a vocal captain and Carra hasn't played until recently.

Beyond those two who do we have?  We look a quiet team.

Compare today's squad with that of the last time we challenged for the league and were riding high in Europe every year.

Masch, Hyypia, Kuyt, Carra (at his peak), Gerrard and Alonso.

All experienced, and yes all that little bit older (Masch was fairly young granted, but he's an animal).  When they looked around the pitch they saw players who had been there and done it either at LFC or elsewhere, and to quote Rafa had "character, no?".

Compare that lot with the likes of Allen, Suso, Sterling, Downing, Henderson, Shelvey and Enrique, and the "character" of the side is world's apart.

I don't think the players from today's squad are bad players, but their age and lack of experience inevitably means they cannot consistently perform at the level required, and when things go badly they have no experience to draw upon to muster a fight back.

Our manager is inexperienced too.

So we desperately need some wiser heads around the place.  If we could get in a McAllister type or two that would certainly help.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

We need more experienced players in the squad. A Hyypia/Carragher at the back and a Hamman in midfield. We've got more than enough youth/young players to last us the next 5-10 years but no one with experience to help them along and take the pressure off them. Agger and Skrtl may not be youth players but they haven't emgot the experience of playing in Champions league finals/semi finals.

Basically, in the summer, improve our defence and midfield with players over 25 that have some sort of experience at the top level and some mental steel.