Author Topic: Nuri Sahin (Read 487754 times)

Eeyore · « **Reply #440 on:** August 25, 2012, 12:58:24 pm »

Quote from: John C on August 25, 2012, 12:54:51 pm

I think as a club we need to get in to the habit of playing good football regularly rather than occasionally, a habit of regularly winning three games on the trot would be nice as well.
He may also contribute to us finishing 4th or winning a cup - it all sums up to progress mate (I hope). Next year we'll review our options anyway with the further reduction of wages.

Only if he adapts straightaway and hits his Dortmund form, if he performs the way he has performed for Turkey or for Madrid then we are going to give him game time hoping he will come good despite us having no long term interest in his future.

Legendary_Nines · « **Reply #441 on:** August 25, 2012, 12:59:22 pm »

Quote from: -Willo- on August 25, 2012, 12:56:49 pm

I still can't believe we've managed to get him, if you'd of said to me early July "Liverpool will sign Nuri Sahin" I'd of laughed in your face...

What if I said that we would sign him on a one year loan with no option to buy and had to pay a fee? I probably would have thought it feasible to be honest.

mart356 · « **Reply #442 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:01:31 pm »

Quote from: NorwegianKenny on August 25, 2012, 12:39:20 pm

Guillem Balague ‏@GuillemBalague
The thing that gave the last twist to the Sahin saga. After Madrid and Arsenal agreed a 2m loan deal, Liverpool offered 5m (no option 2 buy)

He knows fuck all

Matt8Pie · « **Reply #443 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:02:13 pm »

EVERYBODY DANCE

Didi_ram · « **Reply #444 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:03:33 pm »

If Sahin plays like he did for Dortmund in 2010-11, we are in for a mega season, provided we finish chances.

Kochevnik · « **Reply #445 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:03:42 pm »

I suspect it's 5 million euros, which would be just under 4 million pounds. And I'm guessing that does NOT include his wages, which if we're paying 70% leave us paying around 65k/week (assuming he was on the reported 125k euros/week at Madrid).

I know that's not what we want to hear, but the truth is probably somewhere in between the Arsenal fans' claim that we're paying 5 million pounds and our claim that the 5 million includes the salary. I find that pretty hard to believe, personally, as if we are indeed paying him almost 70k/week, then that already comes to 3.5 million, and I'd be very surprised if Madrid let him go for 1.5 million pound loan fee. After all, you have to remember that he's probably worth at least 20 million pounds (at a guess at what his fee would be if he were on wages of 3.5 million per year) and you'd get him on a four- or five-year contract if you paid that.

In other words, his fee alone would amortise out to around 5 million per annum, so for a one year loan fee a payment of 4 million is actually a pretty good price. Especially for a team in our position that would struggle to attract a player of his calibre if we wanted to buy him. I think Rodgers took a chance and said "Let's push the boat out a bit for this lad, and if we're in the CL next season we can either try to sign him permanently then or we'll have the resources and the pull to go after other players at his level if he wants to go." It's a risk but a good one, as Rodgers really needs to have a good first season or he'll struggle to get us into the CL places in the future.

himynameisntmark · « **Reply #446 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:03:52 pm »

Who cares about the cost? What's 5 million if it helps us gain tens of millions by getting into the Champions League or winning the Europa League?

I'd rather spend 5 million for a top class talent for a season than more than that for someone like Adam

-Willo- · « **Reply #447 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:04:04 pm »

Quote from: Legendary_Nines on August 25, 2012, 12:59:22 pm

What if I said that we would sign him on a one year loan with no option to buy and had to pay a fee? I probably would have thought it feasible to be honest.

I would of thought someone else would be interested who's in a better position than us and he'd go there.

Sim6 · « **Reply #448 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:04:39 pm »

Quote from: John C on August 25, 2012, 12:54:51 pm

I think as a club we need to get in to the habit of playing good football regularly rather than occasionally, a habit of regularly winning three games on the trot would be nice as well.
He may also contribute to us finishing 4th or winning a cup - it all sums up to progress mate (I hope). Next year we'll review our options anyway with the further reduction of wages.

Saying that, a full season with us might make him see where we (are hopefully going) and h may want to be part of the transition. Also being in Europe, once he witnesses an anfield european night, he will be converted!

Snail · « **Reply #449 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:04:44 pm »

Rob17 · « **Reply #450 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:05:12 pm »

Quote from: Didi_ram on August 25, 2012, 01:03:33 pm

If Sahin plays like he did for Dortmund in 2010-11, we are in for a mega season, provided we finish chances.

Uh-Oh

LFC when it suits · « **Reply #451 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:06:39 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 12:58:24 pm

Only if he adapts straightaway and hits his Dortmund form, if he performs the way he has performed for Turkey or for Madrid then we are going to give him game time hoping he will come good despite us having no long term interest in his future.

There was nothing wrong with his Madrid form. He just has players ahead of him in the pecking order.

... · « **Reply #452 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:08:24 pm »

Great signing, excited about this.

snowlion · « **Reply #453 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:08:51 pm »

Welcome lad! I know you will help us get back to the Champions League.

Mali1 · « **Reply #454 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:08:58 pm »

Quote from: NorwegianKenny on August 25, 2012, 12:39:20 pm

Guillem Balague ‏@GuillemBalague
The thing that gave the last twist to the Sahin saga. After Madrid and Arsenal agreed a 2m loan deal, Liverpool offered 5m (no option 2 buy)

Looke at it this way. BR ended interest in Sigurdsson because he isnt worth more than what BR value him.
But in Sahin case, BR paid more for extra quality we needed. This can only make the squad more competitive.

I trust the manager's judgement.

Caffeine · « **Reply #455 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:09:50 pm »

There are some really joyless people on this forum.

We could sign Messi and someone would moan that his wages were too high.

Carra-ton · « **Reply #456 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:10:45 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 12:58:24 pm

Only if he adapts straightaway and hits his Dortmund form, if he performs the way he has performed for Turkey or for Madrid then we are going to give him game time hoping he will come good despite us having no long term interest in his future.

Let me put it in a way which is easier - there are three players in our squad who are on a different level. Suarez, Gerrard and Sahin. That is how good he is. You will get it soon enough. He won't take time to settle.

Sir Psycho Sexy · « **Reply #457 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:11:19 pm »

Quote from: OneTouchFooty on August 25, 2012, 12:48:14 pm

Wages my friend. We offered a better 'deal' to pay his wages, hence 70% of his 125k a week wages works out at shy of 5mil euros a year. The 5m + wages is just a rumour peddled by Arsenal fans trying to make themselves feel better.

I think this is what happened, but the fact has been twisted by bitter gooners and their "ITKs". Why would we offer cash when we could just simply pay more of his wages? Which is what happened and Tight Arsene pulled out

Original · « **Reply #458 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:11:20 pm »

A new flag is needed i believe. something along the lines of
"the creator".

jDJ · « **Reply #459 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:12:17 pm »

What we should have done is employed last summer's transfer policy. Pay massively over the odds for players. That way, when they don't work out, not only can you not afford to invest in anyone different next summer, you've actually got to pay the guy's inflated wages for the next 5 years. So, instead of the transfer failing to the tune of 5m, it fails to the tune of 20, 30, 40, 50m.

Eeyore · « **Reply #460 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:13:08 pm »

Quote from: LFC_4_life on August 25, 2012, 01:06:39 pm

There was nothing wrong with his Madrid form. He just has players ahead of him in the pecking order.

Lets be honest here a player who doesn't play can't really have any form, we are bringing him in hoping we can get the Dortmund form out of him. He has never played in the Premiership and he didn't really play last season so he is likely to need bedding in time. Would we be better of utilising that time with one of our own players.

rocco · « **Reply #461 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:13:25 pm »

Quote from: Kochevnik on August 25, 2012, 01:03:42 pm

I suspect it's 5 million euros, which would be just under 4 million pounds. And I'm guessing that does NOT include his wages, which if we're paying 70% leave us paying around 65k/week (assuming he was on the reported 125k euros/week at Madrid).

I know that's not what we want to hear, but the truth is probably somewhere in between the Arsenal fans' claim that we're paying 5 million pounds and our claim that the 5 million includes the salary. I find that pretty hard to believe, personally, as if we are indeed paying him almost 70k/week, then that already comes to 3.5 million, and I'd be very surprised if Madrid let him go for 1.5 million pound loan fee. After all, you have to remember that he's probably worth at least 20 million pounds (at a guess at what his fee would be if he were on wages of 3.5 million per year) and you'd get him on a four- or five-year contract if you paid that.

In other words, his fee alone would amortise out to around 5 million per annum, so for a one year loan fee a payment of 4 million is actually a pretty good price. Especially for a team in our position that would struggle to attract a player of his calibre if we wanted to buy him. I think Rodgers took a chance and said "Let's push the boat out a bit for this lad, and if we're in the CL next season we can either try to sign him permanently then or we'll have the resources and the pull to go after other players at his level if he wants to go." It's a risk but a good one, as Rodgers really needs to have a good first season or he'll struggle to get us into the CL places in the future.

Just can't see the club paying anymore than £4/5m and that includes his wages , different if it was a permanent contract after this season .

And Could He Play · « **Reply #462 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:13:58 pm »

Quote from: Joga on August 25, 2012, 01:09:50 pm

There are some really joyless people on this forum.

We could sign Messi and someone would moan that his wages were too high.

i actually thought i'd click on this thread and it would just be about the fact we signed a great player.

everyone is just obssessed with the money side of it now. Embarassing.

Eeyore · « **Reply #463 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:14:25 pm »

Quote from: jDJ on August 25, 2012, 01:12:17 pm

What we should have done is employed last summer's transfer policy. Pay massively over the odds for players. That way, when they don't work out, not only can you not afford to invest in anyone different next summer, you've actually got to pay the guy's inflated wages for the next 5 years. So, instead of the transfer failing to the tune of 5m, it fails to the tune of 20, 30, 40, 50m.

What would of happened if we had taken Suarez on loan with no option to buy ?

Carra-ton · « **Reply #464 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:15:36 pm »

It would be interesting to see Sahin playing attacking mid again. Before we know it, Modric would be no longer the favourite media AM. I also think that Gerrard needs a good kick up his backside, and if he doesn't perform, drop him for a couple of games. Gerrard shouldn't be playing the AM role anyway, with Sahin in.

jDJ · « **Reply #465 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:17:19 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 01:13:08 pm

Lets be honest here a player who doesn't play can't really have any form, we are bringing him in hoping we can get the Dortmund form out of him. He has never played in the Premiership and he didn't really play last season so he is likely to need bedding in time. Would we be better of utilising that time with one of our own players.

We play three in central midfield in Rodgers system. As far as I'm concerned, with Sahin, we only really have 4 players who I'd be happy playing in central midfield - Sahin, Henderson, Allen and Lucas. Is that really too many for a team playing in three cup competitions as well as the league?

If I thought this signing meant Henderson would spend the entire year in the reserves I'd probably be more against it but he'll get a lot of game time.

J_Kopite · « **Reply #466 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:18:59 pm »

Quote from: And Could He Play on August 25, 2012, 01:13:58 pm

i actually thought i'd click on this thread and it would just be about the fact we signed a great player.

everyone is just obssessed with the money side of it now. Embarassing.

Some people are fucking sad

LFC when it suits · « **Reply #467 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:20:30 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 01:13:08 pm

Lets be honest here a player who doesn't play can't really have any form, we are bringing him in hoping we can get the Dortmund form out of him. He has never played in the Premiership and he didn't really play last season so he is likely to need bedding in time. Would we be better of utilising that time with one of our own players.

Thats fair enough, but your post kinda implied that he played for Madrid and wasn't up to scratch. He hardly played because he had so many people ahead of him.

As for bedding in time, that is a fair point, but the reality is, a lot of our players need bedding in time this season as we are trying to adapt to Rodgers' new style of play. Sahin suits that style more than any of our players bar Allen and Lucas. In fact, him never playing in the premiershop isn't something I would be concerned about because he has great technical ability. We have already gone down the Premier League proven route last season and it still didn't gaurentee that the players could play for Liverpool.

It's a risk, just as every transfer is and I see your concerns but the logic and reasoning behind this signing is sound. Who knows weather it will turn out to be a disaster or a success, but it just makes sense right now.

pinky · « **Reply #468 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:20:48 pm »

I didn't read the whole thread so I cannot be tottally informed.

Does anyone know a reliable source about the terms of the loan?

jDJ · « **Reply #469 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:22:02 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 01:14:25 pm

What would of happened if we had taken Suarez on loan with no option to buy ?

What about Carroll? Or Downing? or Aquilani?

Who knows what we would have done. Possibly signed him anyway, we managed to persuade him to sign a long term extension with top clubs interested.

If your argument against signing Sahin on loan is that he might turn out to be as good as Suarez was for us when he arrived in January then it's a pretty weak one mate.

Zaffarious · « **Reply #470 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:22:34 pm »

fucking buzzing! what a signing! if he plays like he did for Dortmund then we are gonna be big contenders for 4th.

MisterRodgers · « **Reply #471 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:22:52 pm »

Going to put my head on the block and say we WILL win the title this season. Lucas, Sahin, Gerrard and Allen. Outside of Barca there isn't a better midfield in Europe

Guz-kop · « **Reply #472 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:22:59 pm »

Quote from: pinky on August 25, 2012, 01:20:48 pm

I didn't read the whole thread so I cannot be tottally informed.

Does anyone know a reliable source about the terms of the loan?

NO

DerKaiser · « **Reply #473 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:23:55 pm »

Fantastic news.

Eeyore · « **Reply #474 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:24:48 pm »

Quote from: jDJ on August 25, 2012, 01:17:19 pm

We play three in central midfield in Rodgers system. As far as I'm concerned, with Sahin, we only really have 4 players who I'd be happy playing in central midfield - Sahin, Henderson, Allen and Lucas. Is that really too many for a team playing in three cup competitions as well as the league?

If I thought this signing meant Henderson would spend the entire year in the reserves I'd probably be more against it but he'll get a lot of game time.

The problem is that the player it will probably affect the most is Sterling. If Sahin takes a place in the midfield three then that pushes Gerrard into the forward three and affects Sterling's progression. In the short term it may well make us stronger but at the expense of the long term progression of the team. For me it is a bit half arsed we should either be bringing in someone of Sahin's quality on a permanent basis or developing our own players.

rocco · « **Reply #475 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:28:43 pm »

Very excited about Sahin brings nice balance and quality to the midfield .
Gerrard
Sahin
Lucas
Allen
Shev
Henderson
Adam if he stays ?

-Q- · « **Reply #476 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:28:51 pm »

Good stuff. Great that we pipped him from Arsenal - this could be the difference between 4th and 5th for us both.

If he helps us get to the CL he'll have more than justified the loan fee. Who knows, if we get to the CL, he is enjoying playing for the the club, in the Premier League, living in the city etc, he may want to stay and take us forward rather than being used in rotation at Madrid.

Skeeve · « **Reply #477 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:29:33 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 01:24:48 pm

The problem is that the player it will probably affect the most is Sterling. If Sahin takes a place in the midfield three then that pushes Gerrard into the forward three and affects Sterling's progression. In the short term it may well make us stronger but at the expense of the long term progression of the team. For me it is a bit half arsed we should either be bringing in someone of Sahin's quality on a permanent basis or developing our own players.

The other side of that view is that we would not be throwing Sterling into every game and expecting a 17 year old to be our saviour, instead he can be eased more gradually into the first team with mostly sub appearances to start with when the pressure is would not be on him so much.

Sir Psycho Sexy · « **Reply #478 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:30:56 pm »

Quote from: MisterRodgers on August 25, 2012, 01:22:52 pm

Going to put my head on the block and say we WILL win the title this season. Lucas, Sahin, Gerrard and Allen. Outside of Barca there isn't a better midfield in Europe

You just made your debut for RAWK meltdown. Only took 5 post as well.

kcbworth · « **Reply #479 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:31:14 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on August 25, 2012, 01:24:48 pm

The problem is that the player it will probably affect the most is Sterling. If Sahin takes a place in the midfield three then that pushes Gerrard into the forward three and affects Sterling's progression. In the short term it may well make us stronger but at the expense of the long term progression of the team. For me it is a bit half arsed we should either be bringing in someone of Sahin's quality on a permanent basis or developing our own players.

Or maybe it decreases the importance of Downing perhaps giving Sterling even more game time.