Topic: Liverpool (1) v Chelsea (1) - 25/11/17 (Salah ‘64 Willian ‘85)

[Robinred]

More frustrating to see them nick the equaliser like that than if they'd scored when Hazard was showing how good he is. Not sure why knives are out for Mignolet about it. Thought he made the big saves asked of him today.

I'm grudgingly ok with a point on the performance overall. Chelsea are a decent side. We didn't play particularly well for chunks of the match and got compressed into our own half when they needed the equaliser. Punting it back to them each time didn't really help either, especially as Salah was looking knackered even before he scored.

That’s about my take on it too. On Tuesday we drifted deeper and deeper, and I had hoped we would learn that we don’t do well as a back foot team - we are most effective pushing up and condensing space.

I thought Azpalacueta was MoM - he always impresses me with everything about his game. Klavan had fantastic passing stats and he’s a seasoned defender. But between the 69th and 73rd minute his head fell off and he looked like someone who’d been thrown into a top game from the Southern League. That’s twice in a week he’s shown Jekyll and Hyde tendencies.

Millie and Henderson were busy and honest throughout, though Millie started rustily and got better. However,  they are not the long term answer for a Liverpool midfield if we have ambitions to challenge for the top prizes. For all his lack of mobility these days, Fabregas (like Banega on Tuesday) gave a glimpse of what we’re missing - particularly so when tired legs offer openings that frantic first halves tend not to present.

[24/7]

Frustrating. CHECK!

Annoying. CHECK!

Klopp/Moreno/Migs/Hendo/[enterscapegoatofchoicehere]must go - REALITY CHECK!

It's one thing to express your frustration and even offer a reasoned critique as to why 'x' is 'y' and should be doing 'z' instead........

..........but fair warning - we are on the specific lookout for persistently neggie fucktards, wums, trolls and keyboardwarriorgeneralfuckwits and this could be your Lucky Weekend Where You Get To Find A New Forum!!!!!!!!

Bring it - or back your emotions up with shit like facts and analysis and reasoned argument and stuff like that.

Or fuck off

*thisisthevoiceofsomeonetiredwithkneejerkingjerksandnotnecessarilysomeonewhorepresentssitephilopsophybutmighthappentocoincidewithsuchjustsayinlikealrightderelidlidlikeknowwarrameanwe'renotfukinevertonlaaaaaaaaaaaaa

PS - "we used to bitch about Bad Shit in the pub or on the bus or when kicking the cat at home or fukin der beeerd on der kitchen table" mitigation and stuff like that.............save it for there..............we want a forum where debate is stimulating and fosters proper discussion - the abusive crap we've seen over the last few months is not only anathema but we recognise as destructive. Some of the longer words here might need a dick shun airy. Whatevs

[Six Beardy]

I wouldn't begrudge anyone a good grumble mate  . but sometimes you have to draw the line in what you want to listen to, bloke at work moans about Lovren quiet a lot, i get it, i don't really answer anymore. I will admit, I am not that pissed off about today, I thought we played well against the Champions, We can get better and under Klopp I reckon we can take these Manc clubs and rent boys down, thats where i draw my energy at the moment.

Well yeah ,we can all agree on that  - we all want what's best for the club - it just pisses me off that anyone who dares voice any dismay at a non-win or voices concerns at on-going trends that are costing us those wins is automatically labelled on here as a bedwetter, disloyal or not a true fan. As if not being happy at a draw or loss was ever acceptable for this club. I've followed us home, away and abroad for fckin decades, so I feel I'm just as entitled as anyone else to have a say,  without my *ahem* 'loyalty' being called into account. 

[redk84]

Weird one tonight for me...

Absolutely did not want us to lose. Saw the lineup and was surprised....ok if it's still goalless we have good options right?

Well the game was back and forth, Chelsea are a very good side. It was definitely an even matchup but we had more periods on top until we scored...

I kinda think Klopp bringing gini on he was trying to prove a point. That we could hold a lead...I desperately wanted us to and we did limit them to not much to be honest. Then that cross/shot and all the work is undone, another lead let go. It's tiresome.

I wasn't that upset, because I know with the fixtures coming up we can put some points on the board. But I can understand why some folk must be frustrated tonight, another day I would be too.

I wanted us to win it THAT way. 1-0...would have been a great mental boost. We'll just need to do it another day

[elsewhere]

Come on Salah, you shouldn't be such a nice and humble guy not celebrating goal against Chelsea. You should've screamed "who is top goalscorer in the league, plastic bitches?"

Do we have crossing sessions for Milner and Gomez? I feel like half of RAWK can cross better than what they did today.

[24/7]

Come on Salah, you shouldn't be such a nice and humble guy not celebrating goal against Chelsea. You should've screamed "who is top goalscorer in the league, plastic bitches?"

Maybe Egypt 300+ dead etc might have had something to do with it - could be - just suggesting - not attacking - perspective and all that.

[BabuYagu]

To play devils advocate here, if he had brought on 2 subs when we was winning and they then scored, people would be saying why's he made them subs when we are winning and cost us the win.

Like the Watford game.

[Anfield89]

Game was won.

Selection wasn’t a problem

They scored form a lucky cross. 

Hendo is struggling big time.

Moreno had a brilliant game.


U Can’t moan about much today.

[kavah]

I thought that was a great game. Two good teams, a few mistakes from both sides. All in all a good point against a top 4 side.

[elsewhere]

Maybe Egypt 300+ dead etc might have had something to do with it - could be - just suggesting - not attacking - perspective and all that.

My bad if that's the case, i thought he did it since Chelsea was his old club.

[sms1986]

I reckon it's got nothing to do with it.

Just saying.  Not attacking.

It probably does, I doubt Chelsea are remembered too fondly by Salah.

[Anfield89]

Is there actually people questioning Mignolet and moaning about Salah not celebrating?

[Gegenpresser]

Need a DM, Need a DM, Need a DM...

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Is there actually people questioning Mignolet and moaning about Salah not celebrating?

Welcome to rawk

[Anfield89]

Welcome to rawk

Haha crazy mate.

[24/7]

I reckon it's got nothing to do with it.

Just saying.  Not attacking.

That's okay too, friend - might be wrong. Just sayin'.

My bad if that's the case, i thought he did it since Chelsea was his old club.

That thought did cross my mind too - the whole thing about not celebrating against former clubs thing - sure some of 'theirs' have done it for us over the years.......

It probably does, I doubt Chelsea are remembered too fondly by Salah.

There's that too. Point is there's a potential plethora of reasons and ours is not necessarily to reason why.......... etc......

[Anfield89]

It probably does, I doubt Chelsea are remembered too fondly by Salah.

Personal choice though. He probably also has  fuck all against Chelsea either.

[John C]

I love Klopp and wouldn't want to have anyone else as our manager... but despite all that he's been in charge for 2 years now and still hasn't come close to building a spine, or even a part of one. I live in hope though and trust him to get it right evebtually though.

I'm from a generation when losing or drawing happened occassionally but was never unacceptable. Not ever. No matter who the opposition were or how good they were. Particularly at home. Even more so from a lead; be it 1 up, 2 up, or 3 up. Yet this is something which now seems to be increasingly acceptable and something that's constantly excused - if you aren't happy with it you're a bedwetter and not a true fan - WTF ? I honestly don't get it - since when did it become acceptable for Liverpool not to win and the people who accept a draw or a defeat are the real fans ?

It goes against everything the likes of Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Kenny and Rafa ever stood for. And against everything that's been enshrined in the club and it's fans for close to 60 years. Fuck that.

Fuck that.

I don't get the bit in bold?
I understand the generational aspect mate, but it's too precious. But what about the generation before you? I am very, very much in the Liverpool exists to win trophies camp, check Alan X's sig. Shanks had barren [/size]years and Rafa hardly came close to winning the league so don't throw big, emotive names at me mate to try to prove I'm wrong for saying we were unlucky to draw against a sponky Chelsea goal.

[him_15]

A fair result for both sides, didn't feel a loss for me but a bit frustrated to be equalised again.

[24/7]

I don't get the bit in bold?
I understand the generational aspect mate, but it's too precious. But what about the generation before you? I am very, very much in the Liverpool exists to win trophies camp, check Alan X's sig. Shanks had baron years and Rafa hardly came close to winning the league so don't throw big, emotive names at me mate to try to prove I'm wrong for saying we were unlucky to draw against a sponky Chelsea goal.

He had barren years too - not just the one where we plebs adored him - but barren, yea, empty ones, foresooth dear comrade ohsueme......

[John C]

It's not been the 70's/80's for fckin decades pal - it still doesn't mean we have to be content with constantly throwing away 3-0 leads, 2-0 leads or 1-0 leads. Never mind a 3-0 lead and a 1-0 lead in the space of 4 fckin days. It's not as if throwing away that kind of lead is exclusive to this week, sadly it's become commonplace. It's frustrating to watch because we know we are capable of so much better - it's also really frustrating to see people on here constantly excuse such results as if they don't even fckin matter... and not just that but bizarrely, the excusers see themselves as the righteous true fans of the club cos they don't care if we win, lose or draw. Fuck that !

People who can make a rational appraisal of the Seville or Chelsea game that arrive at a different conclusion to you are not "righteous" and they do give a fuck. So, with respect mate, do one. If you are an arl arse you should know better and you should be giving Klopp's endeavours far more respect.

[24/7]

People who can make a rational appraisal of the Seville or Chelsea game that arrive at a different conclusion to you are not "righteous" and they do give a fuck. So, with respect mate, do one. If you are an arl arse you should know better and you should be giving Klopp's endeavours far more respect.

Nice teeth there John mate - you been the same orthodontist as one of our players?

[24/7]

Haha crazy mate.

Is rice. Lid.

[Caligula?]

I love Klopp and wouldn't want to have anyone else as our manager... but despite all that he's been in charge for 2 years now and still hasn't come close to building a spine, or even a part of one. I live in hope though and trust him to get it right evebtually though.

I'm from a generation when losing or drawing happened occassionally but was never unacceptable. Not ever. No matter who the opposition were or how good they were. Particularly at home. Even more so from a lead; be it 1 up, 2 up, or 3 up. Yet this is something which now seems to be increasingly acceptable and something that's constantly excused - if you aren't happy with it you're a bedwetter and not a true fan - WTF ? I honestly don't get it - since when did it become acceptable for Liverpool not to win and the people who accept a draw or a defeat are the real fans ?

It goes against everything the likes of Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Kenny and Rafa ever stood for. And against everything that's been enshrined in the club and it's fans for close to 60 years. Fuck that.

Fuck that.

Years of mediocrity (and yes, one trophy in a decade is mediocre) on the pitch spawns mediocrity off it. That's the only explanation I have. It starts turning to apathy after a while and that's when something like throwing away a 3 goal lead becomes a good result. The older generation has seen us win it all so they can always have that to fall back on. They've seen the glory days and perhaps aren't arsed anymore. But I don't understand our younger supporters who were only teenagers or even younger when we were last regularly winning trophies under Houllier. You'd think that they'd be chomping at the bit to see this side win things again but most are in a sort of catatonic state where they seem to have accepted that we're permanently in transition, and there's always an excuse ready to be touted out. Or who knows, maybe the odd win here and there is already good enough. Beats the hell out of me anymore. And no, it has nothing to do with tonight's result.

[Souness1]

A strange game I thought. The level of quality was fairly poor throughout apart from a few players, namely Salah, Hazard, Azpilicueta, Moreno.

Our midfield was appalling, all 3 of Hendo, Milner and Coutinho had terrible games. They each gave the ball away a number of times and there was just no real shape in general. For me the midfield is just as much of a problem as the defence, we just never seem to have games under control or have the ability to see games out. Our midfield invites so much pressure on the back 4 that they cannot handle it, it was the same in the Sevilla game. For all the criticism Moreno got most of our problems stem from opposition midfields having a free run at the back line. Obviously Moreno should have done better on Tuesday but he hardly got any support. I thought the whole defence had a fairly solid game tonight, Gomez and Moreno in particular looked very assured and bar a couple of dodgy moments Matip and Klavan dealt with Hazard and Morata well, especially in the second half.

Lallana's return is such a massive boost, we just have to pray he stays fit for the rest of the season now. There are way too many gaps appearing in the centre of the pitch in our games of late something Lallana will help stop.

I don't think you can blame Migs too much for the goal, it's a complete fluke. Maybe he could have been a little quicker but it's not a mistake as such.

It's probably been said numerous times in the thread so apologies for repeating but Klopp's in game management is so bizarre at times. Said to my 'arl fella at HT we needed Wijnaldum in there but it should have been for one of Milner or Hendo instead of Phil. The Mane/Lallana changes came 15 mins too late, we would have got a second had we played it right in my opinion.

All in all a draw was just about right but we rarely seem to win games when we don't play well. I'm not too disheartened because the signs are definitely there. For me, the problems in midfield are much more a personnel issue than a systematic one. We knew it wasn't going to be fixed over night and this time next season our midfield trio will look completely different. Onwards

[BabuYagu]

So I was watching the game on TV here and saw no reply of this yet to understand - but there was a moment where they countered and were running straight at our back four - I think about the 60th minute and it was just our back 4 in a line, literally no midfield at all in front of them, and Salah 50 yards ahead of them up the pitch. Does anybody have a clip to make a gif of that to understand what the fuck happened. Curious to see where they all where and how that happened.

It resulted in a cross from the right driven across the box that several Chelsea players were dangerously close to just tapping in.

There was also the corner where they countered on us and we seemed to have just 1 player back when we were already 1-0 up! I think it was when Moreno stepped up to play a 1-man offside trap catching Hazard offside. If that ball had gone to the right instead it looked like it could have been a huge problem.

[elsewhere]

Is there actually people questioning Mignolet and moaning about Salah not celebrating?

Who the fuck is moaning about him not celebrating?

[Six Beardy]

PS - "we used to bitch about Bad Shit in the pub or on the bus or when kicking the cat at home or fukin der beeerd on der kitchen table" mitigation and stuff like that.............save it for there..............we want a forum where debate is stimulating and fosters proper discussion - the abusive crap we've seen over the last few months is not only anathema but we recognise as destructive. Some of the longer words here might need a dick shun airy. Whatevs

With all due respect (and I'll admit your post really pissed me off) - I never had a decent education, I left school at 16 with no qualifications, I never learnt to use long words to get my point across or pretend I'm some kind god-sent deity who can smugly impress the Rawk overlords with any special footballing insight or literary genius. I'm just an ordinary fan who wants nothing more than the club I love to win stuff.

Back in 76, aged 15, I felt I proved my worth by bunking off school, bunking the train down to Wolverhampton and then bunking into Molyneaux to support my team (all with about 10p in my pocket). That's just one example, I could cite many more. I'm not claiming to be some kind of superfan here, in those days that's what we all did, it's how we earnt our spurs. It seems such things mean nothing nowadays though, at least not if you want a say in the internet world of the wannabe journalist gobshite football pseuds who rule the roost on here - to gain respect on here you don't even need to have set foot in Anfield even once , just bluster away with your 21st century pseudo 'look at me ,I'm an expert' football gobshitery nonsense. Perhaps the rest of us poor uneducated fools just need a 'dick shun airy' then maybe we could fool people into accepting our worth.

[24/7]

Who the fuck is moaning about him not celebrating?

There may or may not be valid or invalid reasons behind this.

a) he's an ex-Chelsea player and doesn't want to rub salt in their schadenfreude wounds = gentlemen

b) 300+ die in Egyptian terrorism incident in last 24 hours = gentleman

Either way, our player looks good ergo I can't understand the criticism either.......but this is the modern interwebz, bro, blud, fam, innit.......

[John C]

He had barren years too - not just the one where we plebs adored him - but barren, yea, empty ones, foresooth dear comrade ohsueme......

Who let this tit back in?







 

[24/7]

With all due respect (and I'll admit your post really pissed me off) - I never had a decent education, I left school at 16 with no qualifications, I never learnt to use long words to get my point across or pretend I'm some kind god-sent deity who can smugly impress the Rawk overlords with any special footballing insight or literary genius. I'm just an ordinary fan who wants nothing more than the club I love to win stuff.

Back in 76, aged 15, I felt I proved my worth by bunking off school, bunking the train down to Wolverhampton and then bunking into Molyneaux to support my team (all with about 10p in my pocket). That's just one example, I could cite many more. I'm not claiming to be some kind of superfan here, in those days that'd what we all did, it's how we earnt our spurs. It seems such things mean nothing nowadays though, at least not if you want a say in the internet world of the wannabe journalist gobshite football pseuds who rule the roost on here - to gain respect on here you don't even need to have set foot in Anfield even once , just bluster away with your 21st century pseudo 'look at me ,I'm an expert' football gobshitery nonsense. Perhaps the rest of us poor uneducated fools just need a 'dick shun airy' then maybe we could fool people into accepting our worth.

Think I'm some kind of Oxbridge twat? I grew up in L8 and paid my dues in the Boys' Pen and aren't really arsed if my post pissed you off or not - this is a forum that has suffered badly from poorly-executed "opinion", especially recently - so you can shove that overlord shit up yer arse - I appreciate passion as much as the next man but that pub-talk-shite can stay there cos all I wanna see is something articulate and if my words sting you personally, it's not about you per se - and get this, I really WANT you to get this and contribute to this site cos it's clear to me you have something to give - so don't see me as some fucking overlord enemy - see me as an ally who will fight your corner and defend your right to be frustrated - but don't write me off as some elitist c*nt............cos I feel as much as the next man...........deal?

PS - I just re-read your response and in fact I am glad it generated such an impassioned retort - there's not many on here that can give such an eloquent come-back and I honestly respect that. If we were in a pub, I'd offer to buy you a pint and nod in respect if you told me to shove it up me arse but the offer remains

[Anfield89]

Who the fuck is moaning about him not celebrating?

Duno that’s why it was a question because I’ve seen comments relating to it without reading 18 pages

[24/7]

Who let this tit back in?
 

Oh don't make me post a pic of me arse so you can kiss it, Johnboy.....

[Eeyore]

Todays game confirmed a few things for me. Firstly Mignolet has terrible footwork, give him something within his wingspan and he is a top keeper. Sadly when he has to move his feet to save shots from wide areas then he is decidedly 2nd rate.

The other thing is that having only 3 senior centre backs is killing us. Klopp has a very clear way of seeing out games  he brings on a Caulker/Lucas type aerially strong player towards the end of games. With only Matip/Klavan/Lovrem plus Gomez playing full back we rarely get the opportunity to do that.

[Doc Red]

Meh.
Unlucky not to pick up a win against the reigning champs. So that's a positive.
Frustrating to drop points once again from a leading position, and once again conceding a tying goal in the last 10 minutes of a half.

[BabuYagu]

Todays game confirmed a few things for me. Firstly Mignolet has terrible footwork, give him something within his wingspan and he is a top keeper. Sadly when he has to move his feet to save shots from wide areas then he is decidedly 2nd rate.

The other thing is that having only 3 senior centre backs is killing us. Klopp has a very clear way of seeing out games  he brings on a Caulker/Lucas type aerially strong player towards the end of games. With only Matip/Klavan/Lovrem plus Gomez playing full back we rarely get the opportunity to do that.

I think the Clyne injury, and need to use Gomez as a RB, coupled with the VVD sized hole in our squad are two things that are hurting us in that regard. I've no doubt Can or Lovren would have stepped off the bench if fit today also.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Todays game confirmed a few things for me. Firstly Mignolet has terrible footwork, give him something within his wingspan and he is a top keeper. Sadly when he has to move his feet to save shots from wide areas then he is decidedly 2nd rate.

Agreed. Explains his awful ability on the ball too. He can't get his feet right fast enough.

[elsewhere]

Duno that’s why it was a question because I’ve seen comments relating to it without reading 18 pages

I see, Salah is a class act, such a humble guy. Even though he wasn't given chances in Chelsea, he still doesn't have any animosity which shows how nice guy he is. But as other posters said, i think "not celebrating" might be also because of the terrorist attack in Egypt too. There was three days of national mourn declared after the mosque attack in Cairo.

[killer-heels]

We need to sort the midfield out. Not sure the three are working and it includes the ones se thought would be the permanent fixtures, Henderson and Coutinho.

We need to be looking out for another striker as well.

[Eeyore]

I think the Clyne injury, and need to use Gomez as a RB, coupled with the VVD sized hole in our squad are two things that are hurting us in that regard. I've no doubt Can or Lovren would have stepped off the bench if fit today also.

We have missed Clyne but defending crosses and set pieces is probably his biggest weakness. We don't have an established target man type player who can hold the ball up, we aren't really suited to playing keep ball to see games out so being able to drop off and defend our box late in games often becomes a neccessity.

Matip and Lovren are pretty injury prone so twice this week we have ended up a centre back short and unable to strengthen our ability to defend our box late in games.

As you say we have a VVD sized hole in the squad but to be honest I am not overly confident that we will address it.