Topic: Dejan Lovren

[n00bert]

Not sure I agree with the bolded bit, firstly Mourinho certainly targeted him in the 2-1 defeat with De Gea looking for Lukaku who was pulling onto Lovren from the straight goal kicks. The other one is in possession out of the current back four as an opposition manager he is the one you want on the ball.

Lovren finished the season well and has had a really good World Cup but for me he is an area we can improve on especially against teams who play a low block and invite us to break them down. In those kind of games for me VVD, Matip and possibly Gomez are better options on the ball.

I think we all agree there are better ball players out there but I don’t think he’s a liability defensively that it was all cracked up to be.

[classycarra]

Oh, and how many times did Harry Maguire run into blind alleys in the opposition half and end up being tackled or giving the ball away during this World Cup? Can't imagine the reaction if that was Lovren doing that HALF as much as Maguire was. The GIFs and pisstaking on Twitter would be insane. But Maguire gets endless media praise while Lovren was being taken apart by the punditry at halftime yesterday for simply giving the English team a right bruising. Funny stuff.

Funny thing is that Stones was/is far superior to Maguire too. Stones and Lovren both put in a high quality performance last night. Stones almost scored a great header too, but for me Dejan shades the defender of the match award (that I have just made up).

[BabuYagu]

LFC's official facebook page posted a congratulations to Lovren and the top comments were mostly bile and saying Klopp should sell him 

If the world is ever deemed to be overpopulated and some sort of cull is needed for the species to survive, I really do hope that how people behave online is taken into account. It would be a good way to weed out a lot of the hatred, negativity, prejudice and bigotry.

[BabuYagu]

Not sure I agree with the bolded bit, firstly Mourinho certainly targeted him in the 2-1 defeat with De Gea looking for Lukaku who was pulling onto Lovren from the straight goal kicks. The other one is in possession out of the current back four as an opposition manager he is the one you want on the ball.

Lovren finished the season well and has had a really good World Cup but for me he is an area we can improve on especially against teams who play a low block and invite us to break them down. In those kind of games for me VVD, Matip and possibly Gomez are better options on the ball.

I disagree. From everything I have seen of Dortmund, the zone in front of the center backs is protected by the #6 in those situations which prevent the CB stepping up and those gaps appearing.

Lovren had him in his pocket in a previous game and Can did a brilliant job of doing exactly this against Fellaini in too earlier in the season. Can's admission of guilt after the game, and the fact that stopped happening once Klopp had a word suggests that this wasn't so much targetting a vulnerability in Lovren, more the players on the pitch fucking up a simple play that happens a dozen times in every game at every level in world football.

[DanA]

I think he’s a good to very good player. I suspect he’s a guy that fluctuates with confidence and needs a strong presence beside him but that’s an observation looking from the outside. He’s on a roll and he seems unbeatable but to me it’s never been about Lovren’s in form form. It’s about when thinks aren’t going well for him.

[paulrazor]

While being interviewed after the game,

: ““I would say we have good mothers and fathers. They are making good love I would say.”

 

i swear he is trolling people somehow

amazing

[paulrazor]

LFC's official facebook page posted a congratulations to Lovren and the top comments were mostly bile and saying Klopp should sell him 

social media idiots making silly comments ? never!

[Clint Eastwood]

While being interviewed after the game,

: ““I would say we have good mothers and fathers. They are making good love I would say.”

 

i swear he is trolling people somehow

amazing

He talks a lot of shite, but at least his performances are justifying it. He seems to have weekly interviews, I don't get it.

Hope he wins it now. Would be massively shit to lose a Champions League final and World Cup final in the space of two months.

[paulrazor]

He talks a lot of shite, but at least his performances are justifying it. He seems to have weekly interviews, I don't get it.

Hope he wins it now. Would be massively shit to lose a Champions League final and World Cup final in the space of two months.

was going to mention Michael Ballack but he was suspended in 2002. With Leverkusen he lost the CL final, the league and German cup that season.

[slotmachine]

That Spurs horror show we could have took off any of our back 4, GK and Milner or Hendo it was a total shitshow. He is always the scapegoat that people look to go after. The United away game he loses a one-to-one against Lukaku and the narrative is he was bullied. Do the soft c*nts forget about the previous 4 or 5 games against Everton and United when Lovren didnt give Lukaku a kick and had him in is back pocket. Doesnt fit the Neville pundit's led media perception. A lot of our own fan's are the same when you mention Lovren is playing well all they go on about is VVD is the reason for Degsy's improvement they refuse to give him any credit. VVD didnt join till January and the Spurs debacle was the end of October so Lovren had 2 months of very good form before VVD was signed but again their not interested because they have decided he is shite and they wont budge no matter what the evidence. I mention that VVD has probably made more errors than Lovren since January and they look at me like i have two heads. They will all be out again in force if France's forward line destroys Croatia in the final patting themselves on the back about how right they are that Lovren's shite.

The defenders mentioned in the last few pages are great players but most of them i have seen have games like Lovren has had against Spurs. I am a big fan of Hummels but i have seen him have 3 or 4 games which were similar to Lovren against Spurs. He looked like a pub player and he has obviously been a world class defender but it just show's everyone can have a mare.

[Lubeh]

The Only player I would swap Degsy for atm  would possibly  be Varane, gotta love him though he sure knows how to wind people up! Plus he is best mates with Salah so dont want to upset the apple cart  I tipped franceto win it at the start but i really hopei am wrong.  COME ON DEGSY !

[PoetryInMotion]

That Spurs horror show we could have took off any of our back 4, GK and Milner or Hendo it was a total shitshow. He is always the scapegoat that people look to go after. The United away game he loses a one-to-one against Lukaku and the narrative is he was bullied. Do the soft c*nts forget about the previous 4 or 5 games against Everton and United when Lovren didnt give Lukaku a kick and had him in is back pocket. Doesnt fit the Neville pundit's led media perception. A lot of our own fan's are the same when you mention Lovren is playing well all they go on about is VVD is the reason for Degsy's improvement they refuse to give him any credit. VVD didnt join till January and the Spurs debacle was the end of October so Lovren had 2 months of very good form before VVD was signed but again their not interested because they have decided he is shite and they wont budge no matter what the evidence. I mention that VVD has probably made more errors than Lovren since January and they look at me like i have two heads. They will all be out again in force if France's forward line destroys Croatia in the final patting themselves on the back about how right they are that Lovren's shite.

The defenders mentioned in the last few pages are great players but most of them i have seen have games like Lovren has had against Spurs. I am a big fan of Hummels but i have seen him have 3 or 4 games which were similar to Lovren against Spurs. He looked like a pub player and he has obviously been a world class defender but it just show's everyone can have a mare.

Lovren had a fantastic spell with Sakho as well before, with plenty of clean-sheets before Sakho shot himself on the foot. He had a good spell with Matip the season before last. Now he has another good spell with VVD. He had problems before and in between, but it's not like there was never a good defender in him.

But no. Whenever there are any positives of Lovren or Karius discussed, no it's all VVD. It's all VVD mate. Get that into your head. That's what it is.

[BabuYagu]

Lovren had a fantastic spell with Sakho as well before, with plenty of clean-sheets before Sakho shot himself on the foot. He had a good spell with Matip the season before last. Now he has another good spell with VVD. He had problems before and in between, but it's not like there was never a good defender in him.

But no. Whenever there are any positives of Lovren or Karius discussed, no it's all VVD. It's all VVD mate. Get that into your head. That's what it is.

I remember back in VVD's Mainz days when their keeper had three straight seasons saving 74%+ of the shots at him. He did well that season did VVD. Their keeper gained a reputation that season for being quick off his line, the best in the league in 1-v-1 situations and a possible future replacement for Neuer on the back of VVD's defensive play.

Although in truth, nobody saw anything from those 3 seasons, so maybe they didn't happen?

[PoetryInMotion]

I remember back in VVD's Mainz days when their keeper had three straight seasons saving 74%+ of the shots at him. He did well that season did VVD. Their keeper gained a reputation that season for being quick off his line, the best in the league in 1-v-1 situations and a possible future replacement for Neuer on the back of VVD's defensive play.

Although in truth, nobody saw anything from those 3 seasons, so maybe they didn't happen?

Yeah, of course. How can you doubt that? They didn't happen at all. You're just cooking everything up with all your shite graphs.

Mainz never even had a keeper those 3 seasons.

[BabuYagu]

Yeah, of course. How can you doubt that? They didn't happen at all. You're just cooking everything up with all your shite graphs.

Mainz never even had a keeper those 3 seasons.

I doubt they even exist as a club. I didn't see them on TV last season when watching the Champions League or Europa League matches in March. In fact I'm not even sure it exists as a City. Have you been there?

[keano7]

Love his confidence. No denying he’s had a brilliant last 6-7 months. He gives a 110% for this club and that’s all a fan can ask. He gets the club too which is a fantastic trait.

[robgomm]

He seems to me to veer between confidence and catastrophe, mentally I mean. Fragile, like many talented people can be. He's having a fine tournament and I hope he comes back with a winners medal. Getting to the final is an amazing thing for him and will surely give him huge confidence going into next season.

[PoetryInMotion]

I doubt they even exist as a club. I didn't see them on TV last season when watching the Champions League or Europa League matches in March. In fact I'm not even sure it exists as a City. Have you been there?

A City? You can't be serious. They could've been a club opened by a restaurant.

Anyway, if they're club, it doesn't matter. They must be shite. All non-competitive leagues don't matter. Any mid-table club outside of the 'Best League in the world' is utter shite. Have they pulled any upsets like the likes of West Brom and Stoke have? Zilch. They'd be ripped apart in the PL. Even more so without a GK.

[Durlmints]

Just got back from a meal at Le Mainz and can confirm it is a restaurant. Not even German, they offer a mostly French menu though there are definitely continental options available. Quite upmarket for Stockport.

[only6times]

Was a beast today.

Just remembered this post from February. Must have forgotten my agenda against him.

[BabuYagu]

Just got back from a meal at Le Mainz and can confirm it is a restaurant. Not even German, they offer a mostly French menu though there are definitely continental options available. Quite upmarket for Stockport.

Knew it. We've been lied to all along. I bet they don't even do Strudel.

[PoetryInMotion]

Just got back from a meal at Le Mainz and can confirm it is a restaurant. Not even German, they offer a mostly French menu though there are definitely continental options available. Quite upmarket for Stockport.

So, a French club masquerading as German and playing in a false shite league without a Goalkeeper. And it's a restaurant, no city.

Got everyone fooled there.

[IanZG]

It's pretty nice when you remember all the comments when Klopp arrived how Lovren is going to be one of the first to be sold, people slowly realized that he's a very decent rotation option at CB, then he became a regular starter, but one that can definitely be upgraded, and now we're here (somewhat) unironically discussing whether he's one of the best defenders in the world.

[John C]

I loved seeing him giving shit to Alli while he walked away with his head down. Would love to know what was said. He didn't hold back

Despite me wanting England to win, it was a cracking moment in the game. Liverpool's Dejan Lovren putting himself about physically and laying in verbally.

Thoroughly enjoyable.

[Eeyore]

I disagree. From everything I have seen of Dortmund, the zone in front of the center backs is protected by the #6 in those situations which prevent the CB stepping up and those gaps appearing.

Lovren had him in his pocket in a previous game and Can did a brilliant job of doing exactly this against Fellaini in too earlier in the season. Can's admission of guilt after the game, and the fact that stopped happening once Klopp had a word suggests that this wasn't so much targetting a vulnerability in Lovren, more the players on the pitch fucking up a simple play that happens a dozen times in every game at every level in world football.

The 6 can only cover the zone in front of the centre backs if the forwards stay central though. In the United game Lukaku pulls into the area outside the right sided centre back and inside the right back. They targeted Lovren and Trent, if you are playing with a single pivot then he can't pull to the right and cover the space in front of the right channel.

[BabuYagu]

The 6 can only cover the zone in front of the centre backs if the forwards stay central though. In the United game Lukaku pulls into the area outside the right sided centre back and inside the right back. They targeted Lovren and Trent, if you are playing with a single pivot then he can't pull to the right and cover the space in front of the right channel.

The system is not that restrictive. That isn't how it worked at Dortmund. Not how it worked in the game where Lovren and Can previously solved this between them and not how it worked 2nd half in this game. They targetted that side insofar-as they fancied Rashford to get in behind Trent with his pace with flick ons. They did not target Lovren as he has no such issues here historically.

If you watch the Palace game, they do the same with Benteke in the same position. Look what Henderson does, look why it fails, watch Matip. All of this is the reason why I surmised all season long that we would get a #6 who could deal with that role at a level Bender/Kehl/Fernandinho did because Henderson doesn't have the physique for it and Can doesn't have the head for it leaving us with a tactical vulnerability to be resolved.

We had this exact conversation at the time. It got circular. It will again. So I won't waste time on it. Just like the injury prone one. The passing one. And others too. You don't like Lovren and this is confirmation bias.

[Eeyore]

The system is not that restrictive. That isn't how it worked at Dortmund. Not how it worked in the game where Lovren and Can previously solved this between them and not how it worked 2nd half in this game. They targetted that side insofar-as they fancied Rashford to get in behind Trent with his pace with flick ons. They did not target Lovren as he has no such issues here historically.

If you watch the Palace game, they do the same with Benteke in the same position. Look what Henderson does, look why it fails, watch Matip. All of this is the reason why I surmised all season long that we would get a #6 who could deal with that role at a level Bender/Kehl/Fernandinho did because Henderson doesn't have the physique for it and Can doesn't have the head for it leaving us with a tactical vulnerability to be resolved.

We had this exact conversation at the time. It got circular. It will again. So I won't waste time on it. Just like the injury prone one. The passing one. And others too. You don't like Lovren and this is confirmation bias.

Lovren should win that header all day long and to try and blame the six is nuts. Lukaku hasn't dropped off into midfield to try and win an easy header against a smaller player he is behind Lovren. That is a centre forward and a centre back challenging for a straight ball that has gone over half the length of the pitch. As a centre back the odds are so stacked in your favour it's untrue.

The reason he loses the header for me is because at times he is really bad at reading the flight of the ball. He goes too early gets under the flight of the ball and Lukaku just uses his strength to win the header. It is something Dejan does quite a lot.

As for his injury record you like to bring up his back injuries quite a lot Babu especially after he has made a mistake and you also admitted his distribution isn't the best earlier on in this thread. Regarding liking him or not I happen to think he is a very useful squad player and perfect for certain games I also think there are other games in which we could do with someone with better distribution.

Hopefully the introduction of Fabinho and Keita will alleviate the need for better distribution from the back.

The thing is though Babu if you were an opposition manager which one of our back four would you most like to see on the ball and which side of the back four would you target aerially.

[hesbighesred]

I doubt they even exist as a club. I didn't see them on TV last season when watching the Champions League or Europa League matches in March. In fact I'm not even sure it exists as a City. Have you been there?

No-one's been there. I've even checked with two people I know studying at the big university there. They've confirmed that:
a) The town doesn't exist.
b) If it did exist, it wouldn't have a football team.
c) Even if it did, it never had a goalkeeper.
d
d) If there had been a goalkeeper, he only would have played well because of VVD...
e) Who was obviously never there, because a).

The whole Mainz thing was basically made up by Klopp to buff his CV for the Dortmund job. Everybody knows you can't get anywhere in Germany with gaps on your CV.

[hesbighesred]

...Strudel.

Which isn't even a real cake.

[latortuga]

Lovren should win that header all day long and to try and blame the six is nuts. Lukaku hasn't dropped off into midfield to try and win an easy header against a smaller player he is behind Lovren. That is a centre forward and a centre back challenging for a straight ball that has gone over half the length of the pitch. As a centre back the odds are so stacked in your favour it's untrue.

The reason he loses the header for me is because at times he is really bad at reading the flight of the ball. He goes too early gets under the flight of the ball and Lukaku just uses his strength to win the header. It is something Dejan does quite a lot.

As for his injury record you like to bring up his back injuries quite a lot Babu especially after he has made a mistake and you also admitted his distribution isn't the best earlier on in this thread. Regarding liking him or not I happen to think he is a very useful squad player and perfect for certain games I also think there are other games in which we could do with someone with better distribution.

Hopefully the introduction of Fabinho and Keita will alleviate the need for better distribution from the back.

The thing is though Babu if you were an opposition manager which one of our back four would you most like to see on the ball and which side of the back four would you target aerially.

Doesn't really matter if Lovren reads the ball better or not, Lukaku is faster and stronger and will get to that spot first even if he's slightly behind Lovren; which is what happens.  Poppy cock that this is some sort of soda as you describe that a good CB should be winning.  By making the challenge the problem is then the hole that gets left behind by Lovren challenging Lukaku when he could be on 2nd ball cleanup duty.  If you use the 6 to at least body up on Lukaku he can't bring the ball down, loses the header (same result) and Lovren is there to clear the flick on, which incidentally is exactly where the ball lands from Lukaku's header.

If we're getting really technical you could criticise TAA for being very naive by not standing goal side and within arm checking distance of Rashford, but really the first mistake has already happened and just compounds.

[Red_Mist]

Despite me wanting England to win, it was a cracking moment in the game. Liverpool's Dejan Lovren putting himself about physically and laying in verbally.

Thoroughly enjoyable.

Completely agree. Really hope Croatia go on to win it. Would be great to have a World Cup winner in the team and if he’s a confidence player, which most seem to think he is, well that should be that side of things sorted for a while.

[leroy]

Hahahahahahaha.

Quite telling that you excluded the other part of my post.  A quick reminder for you:

People project their own interpretation of those kinds of words all the time and get upset about them. It's very weird. 

[vivabobbygraham]

No-one's been there. I've even checked with two people I know studying at the big university there. They've confirmed that:
a) The town doesn't exist.
b) If it did exist, it wouldn't have a football team.
c) Even if it did, it never had a goalkeeper.
d
d) If there had been a goalkeeper, he only would have played well because of VVD...
e) Who was obviously never there, because a).

The whole Mainz thing was basically made up by Klopp to buff his CV for the Dortmund job. Everybody knows you can't get anywhere in Germany with gaps on your CV.

 

[SlowRap]

https://www.90min.com/posts/5971020-liverpool-fans-absolutely-loved-dejan-lovren-s-instagram-post-regarding-dele-alli

There was this too, publicly trolling him for diving after the 2-2 game.

I found a Croatian Spurs fan online in a comment saying Lovren said "Jebat cu ti majku u picku ja" which roughly translates to "I'll fuck your mother in the pussy". I'm not sure that is an insult, more a statement of intent.

https://streamable.com/h98la

Rape jokes? Really?

I thought you were better than that.

[PoetryInMotion]

No-one's been there. I've even checked with two people I know studying at the big university there. They've confirmed that:
a) The town doesn't exist.
b) If it did exist, it wouldn't have a football team.
c) Even if it did, it never had a goalkeeper.
d
d) If there had been a goalkeeper, he only would have played well because of VVD...
e) Who was obviously never there, because a).

The whole Mainz thing was basically made up by Klopp to buff his CV for the Dortmund job. Everybody knows you can't get anywhere in Germany with gaps on your CV.

Can't argue with your spot on reasoning, mate.

[SerbianScouser]

Due to the much improved protection of our back 4 this season I expect Lovren's fine form to continue. There are no excuses not to reach the championship level of 0.8 goals conceded per game . Everything is set for it even with a wobbly keeper. They should now take a full advantage of having a proper DM coupled with a world-class ball winner in front of them.

[classycarra]

Due to the much improved protection of our back 4 this season I expect Lovren's fine form to continue. There are no excuses not to reach the championship level of 0.8 goals conceded per game . Everything is set for it even with a wobbly keeper. They should now take a full advantage of having a proper DM coupled with a world-class ball winner in front of them.

Plus better quality 2nd line reserves for our front three, so we can retain our system and ensure teams have something to fear if they go at us, rather than playing people in less suited positions (eg Lallana) or lower quality players (Origi) or a mix of both (Ings out wide)

[Eeyore]

Doesn't really matter if Lovren reads the ball better or not, Lukaku is faster and stronger and will get to that spot first even if he's slightly behind Lovren; which is what happens.

That isn't what happens though Lovren misreads the flight and actually gets there too early gets out muscled by Lukaku and doesn't even jump for the ball.

Poppy cock that this is some sort of soda as you describe that a good CB should be winning.  By making the challenge the problem is then the hole that gets left behind by Lovren challenging Lukaku when he could be on 2nd ball cleanup duty.  If you use the 6 to at least body up on Lukaku he can't bring the ball down, loses the header (same result) and Lovren is there to clear the flick on, which incidentally is exactly where the ball lands from Lukaku's header.

Did you watch the game mate, for the 2nd goal that is exactly what Lukaku did he brought the ball down under challenge from Lovren. I don't have a problem with your 6 challenging for the ball if their attacker drops off into midfield because he isn't winning headers against your centre backs. The thing is that isn't what was happening. Mourinho clearly targeted Lovren from goal kicks, Lukaku pulled onto Lovren and they hit low driven balls into Lukaku. 

If we're getting really technical you could criticise TAA for being very naive by not standing goal side and within arm checking distance of Rashford, but really the first mistake has already happened and just compounds.

Mourinho had a plan for goal kicks they pushed four players right up onto our back four as can be seen here.



It isn't a ball knocked short into midfield it is a driven up to Lukaku and for me Lovren should be winning those all day. As for Trent of course he was naive but he is goal side. The crux of the issue though is that Mourinho does his planning and the obvious thing to do would be to aim the goal kicks at Rashford who has a clear height advantage over Trent. For him to target Lovren instead for me shows he fancied Lukaku to come out on top in those encounters. Especially when you consider that pushing four players on to our back four leaves United exposed on the counter if we win the header.

[PoetryInMotion]

So, now we have to revisit this one moment again and again when he's in the World Cup Final? 

His aerial duel record is far from average. It's well above average for a defender in the Top 5 league. Every defender wins some duels, loses some duels. A win/loss of a duel should not result in the entire defense being broken down to let in a one-on-one unless the duel itself was well inside the box. Doesn't justify the goal at all, which was sorted out after the two games we were vulnerable to it. That's all that is there to it. To go on and on and on about a 3-4 moments in a couple of games is increasingly tiresome, especially to take away credit from a player who is one of LFC's 5 players in a World Cup final in history.

[Eeyore]

So, now we have to revisit this one moment again and again when he's in the World Cup Final? 

His aerial duel record is far from average. It's well above average for a defender in the Top 5 league. Every defender wins some duels, loses some duels. A win/loss of a duel should not result in the entire defense being broken down to let in a one-on-one unless the duel itself was well inside the box. Doesn't justify the goal at all, which was sorted out after the two games we were vulnerable to it. That's all that is there to it. To go on and on and on about a 3-4 moments in a couple of games is increasingly tiresome, especially to take away credit from a player who is one of LFC's 5 players in a World Cup final in history.

Except I said Lovren has had a really good World Cup.

The issue is posters saying he can't be targeted when United clearly did that in March and that his mistakes can be erased because he was probably carrying an injury. For me the criticism he was getting earlier in his Liverpool career was way over the top and now it has gone the other way.