Topic: Cody Mathès Gakpo

[Kansti]

He has regressed quite a bit since last season. I had hoped that he would have learned to use his size and frame more effectively. If he was able to do that, him being relatively comfortable in tight spaces and having an eye for goal might have propelled him to being a dangerous option for us. Pretty annoyed at how our recent signings in Darwin, Gakpo and Szobo do not know how to utilise their physical attributes well.

[Kalito]

Said it a while back, he's right at the front of the queue to be moved on when Xabi comes in.

A real nadir of a performance, as ineffective as it gets (almost Kuyt-esque) and a liability on top.

Robertson's welcome on his first day ("finally, a good Dutch player") seems painfully unfunny now.

Robbo said that to Ryan Gravenberch. 

[damomad]

Hope he comes back from the international break rejuvenated and can bag us some goals on the way to the title, something Carra could never do 

[Shankly998]

We didn't lose because of Gakpo but at the same time he did nothing to help us win.

[Clayton Bigsby]

I think he is positionally homeless in this team the more I think about it. Versatility for me means being great in one position but with the ability to cover multiple. We have many players like this. Gomez, Salah, Nunez, Diaz, Trent. Etc

If we are still asking what his best position is after all this time it's a problem.

However, Klopp is going so he may have use in the new guy's system.

[Judge Red]

We didn't lose because of Gakpo but at the same time he did nothing to help us win.

Just think he is guilty of taking too many touches but he’s not alone in that.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I think he is positionally homeless in this team the more I think about it. Versatility for me means being great in one position but with the ability to cover multiple. We have many players like this. Gomez, Salah, Nunez, Diaz, Trent. Etc

If we are still asking what his best position is after all this time it's a problem.

However, Klopp is going so he may have use in the new guy's system.

Gakpo's issues are not due to the system though.

He's supposed to be this deep lying forward who connects the forwards but has the second lowest passes per 90 for the last two seasons. He's not creative with 8 assists in 68-games. Doesn't score enough and isn't particuarly fast. He's supposed to be flexible but then people say he's been used in too many positions.

Klopp is probably the best man-manager I've ever seen. He's been able to compete with some of the biggest spending teams both domestically and in Europe because he's able to get the very best out of the players he inheritted and has signed at much lower cost.

But even he is struggling to regular, consistent performances out of Gakpo at Premier League level. I really struggle to find an outstanding attribute he has that would make me think Alonso (or whoever) will do a better job than Klopp of getting him to play to a higher level.   

[PhilV]

One of the worst, least effort performances I have seen from a Liverpool player in some time.

Came on yet looked slower and less mobile than the player who played full game, actively destabilised our attach, that huge chance which was like 4 on 2 was a super terrible pass, can't excuse that.

I know we don't like to single out players for criticism, but Gakpo yesterday really felt like he killed out attack and thus, the game. He looked so lost out there, I wuld legit rather have Danns come on instead, and with how many appearances in senior football Danns has, that is telling.

Awful.

[killer-heels]

Gakpo's issues are not due to the system though.

He's supposed to be this deep lying forward who connects the forwards but has the second lowest passes per 90 for the last two seasons. He's not creative with 8 assists in 68-games. Doesn't score enough and isn't particuarly fast. He's supposed to be flexible but then people say he's been used in too many positions.

Klopp is probably the best man-manager I've ever seen. He's been able to compete with some of the biggest spending teams both domestically and in Europe because he's able to get the very best out of the players he inheritted and has signed at much lower cost.

But even he is struggling to regular, consistent performances out of Gakpo at Premier League level. I really struggle to find an outstanding attribute he has that would make me think Alonso (or whoever) will do a better job than Klopp of getting him to play to a higher level.   

Even during his best form in the last 10 games last season Gakpo was struggling to get on the ball enough. He is dispossessed a lot but that maybe due to the fact he wants to get on the ball and turn rather than passing the ball first time. Even Bobby with all his control released it quick when he had to.

He also has been tried in virtually every position including attacking midfield and in there he also struggles to get on the ball. I dont see it as a surprise that left wing is where he normally plays but again in this league if you want to be successful out wide then you either need to be really quick and/or have a handful of really elite abilities to forge a path for yourself.

[rossipersempre]

Not sure why so many think he's on safer ground once Klopp leaves.

Not a chance Xabi (or Amorim) will fancy an ineffective pedestrian 8.5 that offers so little intensity on or off the ball and begs questions of his decision-making and footballing ability. In fact, yesterday he looked exactly like the typical feckless Man United player that Ten Hag desperately wanted him to be 15 months ago.

More likely scenario is we look to cut our losses on the £35m outlay and Edwards works his magic and dupes a walking pace league club to take a punt on him, like Juventus or PSG. Maybe even Barcelona given how obsessed with Dutch players they are.

Otherwise, Lijnders can bubble wrap and box him up along with the rest of his office possessions, leaving a post-it IOU on his desk.

[killer-heels]

Not sure why so many think he's on safer ground once Klopp leaves.

Not a chance Xabi (or Amorim) will fancy an ineffective pedestrian 8.5 that offers so little intensity on or off the ball and begs questions of his decision-making and footballing ability. In fact, yesterday he looked exactly like the typical feckless Man United player that Ten Hag desperately wanted him to be 15 months ago.

More likely scenario is we look to cut our losses on the £35m outlay and Edwards works his magic and dupes a walking pace league club to take a punt on him, like Juventus or PSG. Maybe even Barcelona given how obsessed with Dutch players they are.

Otherwise, Lijnders can bubble wrap and box him up along with the rest of his office possessions, leaving a post-it IOU on his desk.

I don't think its a case of him being on safer ground, more that he may be looking for a change in the hope he can have another go with a manager who might have different ideas.

[[new username under construction]]

I still can't see where his position actually is! He's definitely not a striker, although watching the season review he gets a fair few a the back post but it's like he's that scoring midfielder nipping in to get it....but he's not a midfielder. No pace for a wide forward and not really a 10.

[rossipersempre]

I don't think its a case of him being on safer ground, more that he may be looking for a change in the hope he can have another go with a manager who might have different ideas.

Klopp isn't the cause of Gakpo's issues, that's for certain. He doesn't need a clean slate, he needs a new club where his obvious frailities aren't so brutally exposed.

[killer-heels]

Klopp isn't the cause of Gakpo's issues, that's for certain. He doesn't need a clean slate, he needs a new club where his obvious frailities aren't so brutally exposed.

Yes, I have said before that I just don't think he is good enough.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Even during his best form in the last 10 games last season Gakpo was struggling to get on the ball enough. He is dispossessed a lot but that maybe due to the fact he wants to get on the ball and turn rather than passing the ball first time. Even Bobby with all his control released it quick when he had to.

He also has been tried in virtually every position including attacking midfield and in there he also struggles to get on the ball. I dont see it as a surprise that left wing is where he normally plays but again in this league if you want to be successful out wide then you either need to be really quick and/or have a handful of really elite abilities to forge a path for yourself.

This is the key thing for me, there have been succesful players in this league who didn't have pace, but they had other outstanding attributes that more than made up for them. Gakpo's countryman Bergkamp is an example of this. Unfortunately for him, Gakpo doesn't have the extraordinary control, skill, passing ability or vision of Bergkamp.   

[Wool]

I don't think its a case of him being on safer ground, more that he may be looking for a change in the hope he can have another go with a manager who might have different ideas.

The thing is, this is who Gakpo has always been. Statistically it was a weird signing at the time we made it and the same applies for the eye test. I remember posting on here at the time that one of my Dutch mates was baffled we’d signed him and said he was an Everton calibre player and not Liverpool. He’s not magically going to become a completely different player under a different manager.

I think for me the big thing is if it was just a talent issue most of us would forgive that as long as he worked his bollocks off each game but he doesn’t do that. He just ambles about the pitch so I don’t think it’s a huge surprise he’s coming in for criticism.

[killer-heels]

The thing is, this is who Gakpo has always been. Statistically it was a weird signing at the time we made it and the same applies for the eye test. I remember posting on here at the time that one of my Dutch mates was baffled we’d signed him and said he was an Everton calibre player and not Liverpool. He’s not magically going to become a completely different player under a different manager.

I think for me the big thing is if it was just a talent issue most of us would forgive that as long as he worked his bollocks off each game but he doesn’t do that. He just ambles about the pitch so I don’t think it’s a huge surprise he’s coming in for criticism.

To be fair his pressing numbers were increasing quite a bit in that run last season during the last 10 games. That was probably his best run of form for us so it could point to a confidence thing.

[[new username under construction]]

so it could point to a confidence thing.

Could point to feeling like a bit part player, starting and doing 90/120 mins in games where our "main" players were rested

[Garlic Red]

The thing is, this is who Gakpo has always been. Statistically it was a weird signing at the time we made it and the same applies for the eye test. I remember posting on here at the time that one of my Dutch mates was baffled we’d signed him and said he was an Everton calibre player and not Liverpool. He’s not magically going to become a completely different player under a different manager.

I think for me the big thing is if it was just a talent issue most of us would forgive that as long as he worked his bollocks off each game but he doesn’t do that. He just ambles about the pitch so I don’t think it’s a huge surprise he’s coming in for criticism.

No offence, but I can remember speaking to Wolves fans when we signed Jota as I worked with a few at the time. They said similar, he’s inconsistent, goes missing etc I wouldn’t really go off what fans think over the scouts at our club.

For me, we had an idea of what he wanted to be, it was going to be a bigger, more physical version of Firmino with a bit more versatility. Holding the ball up centrally, sucking in players, turning and spreading play, 12 months ago it very much looked like a good piece of work and he’d be a great tool to use when we wanted that from the focal point of our attack. Whether he has a defined role or not, he simply isn’t playing well or complimenting his teammates well. He was speaking in interviews saying he’d always played from the left but was now engaged with being a 9, it was obviously a learning process for him and being moved around the field doesn’t help when you’re still trying to learn the role the coaching staff have told you will be your position in the team.

People are desperate to pigeon hole him as a signing by Lijnders, by Klopp, by whoever, when we all know as a club it’s always been a collaborative effort when it comes to signings, just because one hasn’t been as good as we’d hoped doesn’t mean there has to be a fall guy or that we deviated from a process that worked. I’ve seen him play well and I’ve seen him look the part in red, I have no issues in believing he has the talent, I just really question how we’ve been using him and quite why he hasn’t been able to string together a few top performances despite being very involved in the team.

[crewlove]

Very weird case. I've always hold an opinion that under JK every player will improve eventually (if health allows to), but with him I am not sure now. We won't find out unfortunately as Klopp leaves, but for what we have seen so far there is no sign of it.

I am fine with a player not being there skills-wise, because generally you can make up for it with effort or being tenatious. The problem with Gakpo is that he has none of that. He comes in late in the game and looks the least mobile and energetic players of out everybody on the pitch. Funny enough, Gravenberch also has same problem at times. Diaz is often frustrating but he is as tenacious as he probably could be, so he will often gets a free pass.

I also don't know what are we trying to do with him position-wise. Last season I thought we were trying to mould him into some kind of false 9 player, but this season starts and we're trying to play him as some kind of 8.5 type whatever this is. From what I understand he was more of a winger in the Netherlands and I can't imagine it based on what we see every week.

[killer-heels]

No offence, but I can remember speaking to Wolves fans when we signed Jota as I worked with a few at the time. They said similar, he’s inconsistent, goes missing etc I wouldn’t really go off what fans think over the scouts at our club.

For me, we had an idea of what he wanted to be, it was going to be a bigger, more physical version of Firmino with a bit more versatility. Holding the ball up centrally, sucking in players, turning and spreading play, 12 months ago it very much looked like a good piece of work and he’d be a great tool to use when we wanted that from the focal point of our attack. Whether he has a defined role or not, he simply isn’t playing well or complimenting his teammates well. He was speaking in interviews saying he’d always played from the left but was now engaged with being a 9, it was obviously a learning process for him and being moved around the field doesn’t help when you’re still trying to learn the role the coaching staff have told you will be your position in the team.

People are desperate to pigeon hole him as a signing by Lijnders, by Klopp, by whoever, when we all know as a club it’s always been a collaborative effort when it comes to signings, just because one hasn’t been as good as we’d hoped doesn’t mean there has to be a fall guy or that we deviated from a process that worked. I’ve seen him play well and I’ve seen him look the part in red, I have no issues in believing he has the talent, I just really question how we’ve been using him and quite why he hasn’t been able to string together a few top performances despite being very involved in the team.

Thing with Gakpo is there is a possibility we went a bit galaxy brain with him in that we saw he had some technical attributes and thought thats all we need and we can mould him into what we wanted. Problem was he wasnt really strong on pressing be it effectiveness or volume and he hadnt played in the role we wanted him to. He also wasnt very quick and that ruled him out playing out wide.

With Jota, whilst he was inconsistent, he was an excellent presser even at Wolves and he could score goals. He just had to add consistency. With Gakpo its like we have had to bring his level and ability up in several different areas as well as change his position.

[alonsoisared]

Lots of people saying he's not quick, and I agree he doesn't appear to be, but I don't think that's actually the case. According to the Independent he's been clocked at 32 kph which is apparently the same as Kyle Walker who is one of the quickest in the league. The issue for me is you never seem to see him actually sprint. He doesn't run at defenders, he doesn't really make runs in behind. He's just...there.

When you go back and read people's opinions on him when we signed him pretty much everyone was unanimous that he was a left sided winger with burning pace, who could beat a man and cut in and score. He had the numbers in Holland to back it up. It just feels like a classic case of a player coming from a weaker league and being unable to step up. Either that or we have tried to turn him into something he's not, ie a Firmino replacement instead of a Mane one, and as a result aren't getting the best out of him.

[tubby]

Lots of people saying he's not quick, and I agree he doesn't appear to be, but I don't think that's actually the case. According to the Independent he's been clocked at 32 kph which is apparently the same as Kyle Walker who is one of the quickest in the league. The issue for me is you never seem to see him actually sprint. He doesn't run at defenders, he doesn't really make runs in behind. He's just...there.

When you go back and read people's opinions on him when we signed him pretty much everyone was unanimous that he was a left sided winger with burning pace, who could beat a man and cut in and score. He had the numbers in Holland to back it up. It just feels like a classic case of a player coming from a weaker league and being unable to step up. Either that or we have tried to turn him into something he's not, ie a Firmino replacement instead of a Mane one, and as a result aren't getting the best out of him.

I don't think anyone ever used the phrase 'burning pace' in relation to Gakpo.

[JP!]

Not a chance Xabi (or Amorim) will fancy an ineffective pedestrian 8.5 that offers so little intensity on or off the ball and begs questions of his decision-making and footballing ability. In fact, yesterday he looked exactly like the typical feckless Man United player that Ten Hag desperately wanted him to be 15 months ago.

Honestly this crossed my mind a great deal yesterday.  He hasn't looked like a Liverpool player of late. Just looks lost.

[Fromola]

Scapegoat or not there's absolutely no doubt that Gakpo has failed to develop in the way the coaching staff would have hoped. His best game remains the 7-0 against Utd by a country mile. He's been nowhere close to those heights since. End of the day though, he's fifth choice forward and still contributing with double figures. We don't win the Carabao without him.

He's been okay in a Liverpool shirt, not great, but I still don't know what we signed him for when we already had Nunez and Jota. Just wasn't the profile of player or forward we needed.

If we'd used that money on a midfielder that window instead, we could have salvaged the season.

[alonsoisared]

I don't think anyone ever used the phrase 'burning pace' in relation to Gakpo.

This is the independent article I was talking about which mentions his speed. "Electric" rather than "burning" but I think it's close enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/cody-gakpo-liverpool-signing-latest-b2251881.html

I also saw a little interview with him the other day which is what made me think about it in the first place. He said according to our in house statistics he's top four quickest in the squad.

[crewlove]

He's been okay in a Liverpool shirt, not great, but I still don't know what we signed him for when we already had Nunez and Jota. Just wasn't the profile of player or forward we needed.

If we'd used that money on a midfielder that window instead, we could have salvaged the season.

I remember having same thoughts that window. Agreed.

And I also agree that yesterday he looked more like a typical United player these last few years.

[Knight]

This is the independent article I was talking about which mentions his speed. "Electric" rather than "burning" but I think it's close enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/cody-gakpo-liverpool-signing-latest-b2251881.html

I also saw a little interview with him the other day which is what made me think about it in the first place. He said according to our in house statistics he's top four quickest in the squad.

His movement beyond the last man is basically non existent so it’s very hard to tell whether he can run fast.

[Fromola]

Lots of people saying he's not quick, and I agree he doesn't appear to be, but I don't think that's actually the case. According to the Independent he's been clocked at 32 kph which is apparently the same as Kyle Walker who is one of the quickest in the league. The issue for me is you never seem to see him actually sprint. He doesn't run at defenders, he doesn't really make runs in behind. He's just...there.

When you go back and read people's opinions on him when we signed him pretty much everyone was unanimous that he was a left sided winger with burning pace, who could beat a man and cut in and score. He had the numbers in Holland to back it up. It just feels like a classic case of a player coming from a weaker league and being unable to step up. Either that or we have tried to turn him into something he's not, ie a Firmino replacement instead of a Mane one, and as a result aren't getting the best out of him.

The thing is we'd signed Diaz as Mane's replacement and we spent a club record fee on Nunez to be our number 9 that summer (and already had Jota).

The Gakpo signing for me never made sense when in conjunction with the purchase of Nunez just prior, particularly when he's always played central for us. It always seemed a bit Benteke/Firmino in making two incompatible/contradictory signings.

[Funky_Gibbons]

This is the independent article I was talking about which mentions his speed. "Electric" rather than "burning" but I think it's close enough

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/cody-gakpo-liverpool-signing-latest-b2251881.html

I also saw a little interview with him the other day which is what made me think about it in the first place. He said according to our in house statistics he's top four quickest in the squad.

I'm not going to question the validity of this but what were the test conditions? Is it a 100m sprint, 200m? Or is it with the ball? Is he the 4th quickest (top speed) or did he run the 4th fastest time?

From what I've seen, once he starts sprinting his top speed doesn't look too bad, but it doesn't happen often enough because his acceleration is glacial. I saw a stat about him being one of the most fouled but that's partly because he doesn't have that acceleration to escape a defender.

I imagine on some tests his top speed looks good but it's almost pointless if it takes you 60m to get up to top speed.   

[mullyred94]

Don't think his being scapegoated.

Can't hold the ball up, takes too many touches and stifles attacks ( Diaz also is criminal at this )

Never gets in behind, honestly don't even know what position he is. Looks like a 10, but in his mind his a LW.

[Clint Eastwood]

Carragher’s done him dirty with that Tweet. He’s getting all sorts of stick on his social media. Not nice to see, he’s a great lad.

[Hestoic]

I think Gakpo as fifth choice is good in the games like Sparta Prague, good in the league cup games against lower opposition, and some of the lower intensity games in the league. I've got no issues with him for that type of role.

However, when we are chasing a game or are in a big game with intensity and need a goal, I don't want him anywhere near it. He's shown nothing in them this season.

Watching him and Diaz together in the big games is quite painful at times. Diaz is great at getting at the opposition box, but then more often than not takes too many touches and turns around. Gakpo around the box telegraphs what he is going to do any better teams suss him out. When these two are together, it totally kills our fast pace.

Really looking forward to Jota coming back for some ruthlessness.

[AndyMuller]

He was a Ljinders signing.

[alonsoisared]

I'm not going to question the validity of this but what were the test conditions? Is it a 100m sprint, 200m? Or is it with the ball? Is he the 4th quickest (top speed) or did he run the 4th fastest time?

From what I've seen, once he starts sprinting his top speed doesn't look too bad, but it doesn't happen often enough because his acceleration is glacial. I saw a stat about him being one of the most fouled but that's partly because he doesn't have that acceleration to escape a defender.

I imagine on some tests his top speed looks good but it's almost pointless if it takes you 60m to get up to top speed.   

No idea mate and it's a valid question. Just find it striking that there is plenty out there to suggest he is quick, but when you watch him he gives us all the impression that he's pretty slow. I never saw him at PSV but of course like everyone else I read the articles once we were linked with him and it was pretty unanimous that we were signing a quick winger/inside forward. It just doesn't match up with what we are seeing from him.

[Draex]

He’s a left forward. The problem is he’s not as good as Diaz or Nunez there.

[tubby]

He’s a left forward. The problem is he’s not as good as Diaz or Nunez there.

Or Jota.

[Fruity]

When he first came I thought he looked decent. Technically good. Was capable of those long runs with the ball from midfield and could shoot from range. That 2nd goal he scored against united in the 7-0 is quite some finish.

With all that said he doesn't look like he has improved. Could be confidence with lots of sub appearances and playing different positions. I do remember reading that he could disappear in games a fair bit and I think that still appears to be the case.

There is a player there but not sure if the premier league is best suited to him or not, could do with bulking up a bit to add a bit of strength. Currently he is not a bad option off the bench but does he want to be that player.

[bornandbRED]

Whilst he’s been underwhelming recently, pile ons are never great. He still has 18 G/A this season, and he wasn’t at fault for either of their late goals yesterday.

[tubby]

Whilst he’s been underwhelming recently, pile ons are never great. He still has 18 G/A this season, and he wasn’t at fault for either of their late goals yesterday.

Why do you think there's a pile on, though?  Surely if most of RAWK think that he had a shocker, then there's some truth in it?  It's not like it's a couple of posters who have previously slated him endlessly, this is the general consensus of his performance yesterday.