Author Topic: Montreal Canadiens are to be sold... (Read 40241 times)

Danny_ · « **Reply #40 on:** June 21, 2009, 07:46:12 am »

Quote from: TSC on June 20, 2009, 10:42:40 pm

I'm guessing though he'd be after a 50/50 split with Hicks in terms of what personal dosh they plough in to guarantee a refinance. Given their chequered relationship he won't want to front up dosh for Hicks and himself. So it may depend on what Hicks may raise.

They will both have obligations in the partnership agreement, one of which is almost certainly to meet the debt obligations of the club. If one of them doesn't do this, he can probably be forced to sell his share to the other or even have his shares forfeited. If Hicks can't pay for his share of the debt, then Gillette will probably be our sole owner. The only good thing about that is that Gilette clearly wants out so he'd be likely to sell us on to the highest bidder and take a healthy profit on his investment.

However, any hope of the refinancing not happening is now gone with this news. On a more positive note, Gillette is clearly being stretched given that it looks like it was a forced sale. Also, he probably didn't make 250 million. He would have had to service the debt from his initial loan to pay for the ice hockey club and he would have to pay capital gains tax on what he made. So, it's probably somewhere between $150-200 million that he made. Unfortunately, that's still easily enough money to convince the bank to give the green light to his new loan.

No666 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:03:12 am »

As RedJam pointed out a few weeks ago, he has a loan against the Bell Centre - $240 if none of the capital is paid off (which is his modus operandi, after all). This would give a circa $300m profit. I believe this is correct. RedJam/Harry?
As for capital gains - surely his accountants make sure tax is not mandatory - I kind of think tax is only for the 'little people' like you and me.

southern scouse · « **Reply #42 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:47:41 am »

Quote from: Danny_ on June 21, 2009, 07:46:12 am

They will both have obligations in the partnership agreement, one of which is almost certainly to meet the debt obligations of the club. If one of them doesn't do this, he can probably be forced to sell his share to the other or even have his shares forfeited. If Hicks can't pay for his share of the debt, then Gillette will probably be our sole owner. The only good thing about that is that Gilette clearly wants out so he'd be likely to sell us on to the highest bidder and take a healthy profit on his investment.

However, any hope of the refinancing not happening is now gone with this news. On a more positive note, Gillette is clearly being stretched given that it looks like it was a forced sale. Also, he probably didn't make 250 million. He would have had to service the debt from his initial loan to pay for the ice hockey club and he would have to pay capital gains tax on what he made. So, it's probably somewhere between $150-200 million that he made. Unfortunately, that's still easily enough money to convince the bank to give the green light to his new loan.

Would also depend what other ventures he has that need to be serviced, so all this money from the sale of the habs MAY only help in stateside.

Think i read somewhere that he lost money on GM Motors, so this apparent forced sale of the Habs could be do to with the "estate strategy" reported months back.......................

straws and clutching, but can hope.

Passmaster Molby · « **Reply #43 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:00:04 am »

I take it this means that Gillett can now meet any guarantees that RBS may request for a re-financing package. Will be interesting to see if Hicks can do likewise and raise funds.

If Gillett can put up more guarantees than Hicks for the new loan, could this mean that Gillett gets a larger share of the club? Maybe Gillett will take 60% and Hicks 40% for example.

St Skrtel · « **Reply #44 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:17:47 am »

I do believe Gillett is at least slightly better thean Hicks. Wonder what is next. If Gillett put in some more money, hicks has to follow to keep his share.

Leighc1979 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:20:05 am »

I wouldn't be surprised if it was sold to a) help out with refinancing, b) to start getting stadium done, c) to partly fund moves in the transfer market.

Seems a good move to me.

LFCfan4Life · « **Reply #46 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:22:36 am »

Quote from: St Skrtel on June 21, 2009, 10:17:47 am

I do believe Gillett is at least slightly better thean Hicks. Wonder what is next. If Gillett put in some more money, hicks has to follow to keep his share.

i think hicks is trying to sell one of his sports franchises as well

hopefully they are selling up to fund the stadium

$300m would go along way towards getting the ball rolling diggers etc going rest can be financed from hicks and from issuing debentures, selling named bricks etc

about CGT i have no idea if they even pay CGT over in canada and if they do there is probably a team of accounts/tax consultants working on getting it way down

Fordy · « **Reply #47 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:28:20 am »

Quote from: Leighc1979 on June 21, 2009, 10:20:05 am

I wouldn't be surprised if it was sold to a) help out with refinancing, b) to start getting stadium done, c) to partly fund moves in the transfer market.

Seems a good move to me.

Or D) to buy Hicks out.

The snake himself has the upper hand and holds all the aces.

Art Vandelay · « **Reply #48 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:31:24 am »

Why do people believe Gillett is a lesser evil than Hicks? Who was it that wanted Rafa out to begin with? Never trust a hobbit....

Anyway, didn't Gillett take a loan out on the Canadiens, or on the stadium or something? Wouldn't he have to pay that back with some of this money? Or was it a big loan with someone else that he's due to pay off?....I get confused with all these fucking loans flying around everywhere.

Ryan M · « **Reply #49 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:37:47 am »

I don't think any one should presume what will happen with Gillette's income with out being disappointed. The two owners can improve their relations with the fans if Hicks copies Gillette's way of selling his other sport franchise, combine their financial muscle to rid the club of the debt and build the new stadium. Depending if Gillette and Hick's do this then until then I wont be surprised to find us still struggling financially, guess we can always dream ha.

Kokop · « **Reply #50 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:42:21 am »

Interesting news.

Hicks, your move matey.

Will be interesting to see how this mess twists next.

montysmum · « **Reply #51 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:44:19 am »

I suppose this might be good news for us if he puts some of it off the debt or into the club somehow. The unfortunate thing is that it will take weeks for the sale to become fact, and so will probably be too late for any of it to be used as transfer kitty.

lfc_bhoy · « **Reply #52 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:53:13 am »

Hopefully they're both realizing what an asset Liverpool Football Club is and are trying to invest in it in the hopes that it grows.

Manila Kop · « **Reply #53 on:** June 21, 2009, 11:03:28 am »

Quote from: lfc_bhoy on June 21, 2009, 10:53:13 am

Hopefully they're both realizing what an asset Liverpool Football Club is and are trying to invest in it in the hopes that it grows.

He's hoping to do with us what he did with the Canadiens - buy it low then flip it for a higher price. So he's dumping his saleable assets and will reinvest the proceeds in LFC, to build the stadium and flip the club on market later on. It makes financial sense. Hicks is trying to do the same by selling the Rangers isn't he?

Fordy · « **Reply #54 on:** June 21, 2009, 11:13:13 am »

Quote from: Manila Kop on June 21, 2009, 11:03:28 am

He's hoping to do with us what he did with the Canadiens - buy it low then flip it for a higher price. So he's dumping his saleable assets and will reinvest the proceeds in LFC, to build the stadium and flip the club on market later on. It makes financial sense. Hicks is trying to do the same by selling the Rangers isn't he?

Yeah but the PL is totally different and in England everything cost twice as much.

If H & G were serious about doing what you have said then really they should of invested loads of money into the team because to get the value up of the club the team has to be winning things and the PL is what needs to be won to increase the price of the club over night.

Passmaster Molby · « **Reply #55 on:** June 21, 2009, 11:45:47 am »

Its all about maximum return for minimum investment. So far they have done this and got us to this point, but they probably realise to unlock the real treasures they will have to put their hand in their pockets and invest.

vanoord · « **Reply #56 on:** June 21, 2009, 12:02:55 pm »

Oddly, if Gillett has the cash, he can put Hicks in a position where he can (partially) buy him out and that could prove the lever in selling the entire club to a middle eastern buyers.

One can but hope...

OF · « **Reply #57 on:** June 21, 2009, 12:21:16 pm »

Quote from: LFCfan4Life on June 21, 2009, 10:22:36 am

about CGT i have no idea if they even pay CGT over in Canada and if they do there is probably a team of accounts/tax consultants working on getting it way down

Yes we pay CGT. It is based on 50% of the gains and taxed at your marginal rate, based on the province you live in.
As Gillette doesn't live in Canada, it will be based on Quebec taxes, which are the highest in the country. He will also have to pay US taxes on foreign income. There are tax treaties with the states that avoid double taxation so I presume the lawyers will have already plotted the loop holes and his tax bill will eat up much of his profit.

Manila Kop · « **Reply #58 on:** June 21, 2009, 12:45:19 pm »

Quote from: Fordy on June 21, 2009, 11:13:13 am

Yeah but the PL is totally different and in England everything cost twice as much.

If H & G were serious about doing what you have said then really they should of invested loads of money into the team because to get the value up of the club the team has to be winning things and the PL is what needs to be won to increase the price of the club over night.

All they need to flip it is build the stadium and maximize the team's commercial/brand value. They've already started milking the cow for the latter (the Far East tour, the Indian soccer school, buying 'marketable' players) and they know they need to stump up the cash to do the former. The crisis is easing, now would be the perfect time to start work on the stadium while interest rates and raw material prices are still low.

Butcher Knife Roberto · « **Reply #59 on:** June 21, 2009, 01:14:56 pm »

Quote from: lfc_bhoy on June 21, 2009, 10:53:13 am

Hopefully they're both realizing what an asset Liverpool Football Club is and are trying to invest in it in the hopes that it grows.

is exactly right; how many kids in India, Thailand, Japan, China, Malaysia (to name a few) will have Montreal Canadiens shirts on? Then compare how many of the same kids will have Torres, Gerrard, Alonso et al on their backs. Throw in another big name or two, and you are looking at merchandising in the hundreds of millions of pounds every year.

Get a big shiny new stadium with plenty of seats for wealthy day-trippers from the Far East who will pay 5 grand a pop, and suddenly the £300mil he's reinvested from the MC's looks like small change. A clever game from Mr Gillett, I doubt Mr Hicks is as savvy though; he'll want to use it as collateral against another fucking loan or something equally as ridiculous.

Zaffarious · « **Reply #60 on:** June 21, 2009, 01:14:56 pm »

agree with you manilla, this could be a pivotel point in their horrible tenure so far as owners of LFC.

If Hicks can sell one of his franchises , then i am pretty sure they will plough money into the stadium AND team. They know, as we all do, we are very close to being a fantastic football team with many marketable assets. They will build on this, if (when) we get a few titles / european cups on the way, they will sell us at a huge profit.

stano123 · « **Reply #61 on:** June 21, 2009, 01:56:27 pm »

As the refinancing deadline approached GG needed to do this, or there was a very real chance he could have lost the club.

It doesnt essentially mean that he will plough money into the club for players or a stadium, but it does buy him time and strengthens his position if he did want to sell the club in the near future.

rocco · « **Reply #62 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:04:55 pm »

Maybe wrong but my gut feeling is IF were not to get rid of the yanks .... Gillett been sole owner would be a lot better than Hicks ..... before all the shit happened and the yanks Bought us .. i Had a good gut feeling about Gillett and a bad gut feeling one about Hicks .
Wasn't Gillett supposed to buy us on his own but hadn't got the cash and that's were Hicks came from .. ?

Maybe since then serious things have come to light about Gillett , but before they bough us .. i thought the way the Canadian fans talked about him .. gave the feeling he could have been right for us ....

shelovesyou · « **Reply #63 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:05:05 pm »

I have no expectations of Gillett putting any of this money into LFC . None whatsoever.
He's a slimy little c*nt.

rocco · « **Reply #64 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:10:24 pm »

Liverpool owner Gillett to sell his 80% of Montreal Canadiens

Liverpool co-owner George Gillett is poised to sell NHL team Montreal Canadiens back to the Molson brewing family.

Gillett and Geoff Molson issued a joint statement yesterday saying they have an agreement in principle for three Molson brothers to purchase the club.

The deal needs approval from the NHL's board of governors, which they expect to occur by late August. A team spokesman said no time frame has been set for the announcement. The two sides did not reveal the sale price or any other details.

Gillett owned 80.1 percent of the team, its arena and its event promotion company. Brothers Geoff, Andrew and Justin Molson, whose family first bought into the Canadiens in the 1950s, were up against a handful of bidders for the team, including Quebecor Media.

Gillett said he was "pleased to return the ownership of the Canadiens to the Molson family, a family that has been associated with the club for over three generations and committed to the Montreal community for seven generations over a 223-year period."

Gillett purchased his majority share in the team in 2001 for $275m. The remaining 19.9 percent remains with the Molson Coors company. Geoff Molson is on the team's board of directors, but he withdrew from its activities during the sale process.

Gillett has built the Canadiens into one of the NHL's most profitable clubs. He is also co-owner of Liverpool with Dallas Stars owner Tom Hicks.

"I am fully confident that the Molson brothers, who have been a great part of the heritage of the club, will ensure the preservation and development of this great sports institution," Gillett said.

"This is a very exciting time for our family," Geoff Molson said in the statement.

Provincial finance minister Raymond Bachand has made a $100m loan available to any new owners, as long as they're from Quebec.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said ownership by the Molson family will be good for the team's fans. "To the extent that they've been able to find people who are obviously passionate about the game and structure a transaction that makes sense for everybody, that's a real plus for the franchise and the fans in Montreal," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/21/gillett-sells-montreal-canadiens-liverpool

N11RED · « **Reply #65 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:14:54 pm »

Quote from: shelovesyouyehyehyeh on June 21, 2009, 02:05:05 pm

I have no expectations of Gillett putting any of this money into LFC . None whatsoever.
He's a slimy little c*nt.

Exactly.

What's all this talk of Gillett being the 'better of two evils' now that he has more cash to play with? He is a fucking snake, we won't see a penny of that money. He'll probably go out and buy another distressed asset at a snip of its true value to line his already bulging pocket whilst continuing to drain us dry. Die a death you lying little prick.

rocco · « **Reply #66 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:18:25 pm »

Quote from: shelovesyouyehyehyeh on June 21, 2009, 02:05:05 pm

I have no expectations of Gillett putting any of this money into LFC . None whatsoever.
He's a slimy little c*nt.

Quote from: N11RED on June 21, 2009, 02:14:54 pm

Exactly.

What's all this talk of Gillett being the 'better of two evils' now that he has more cash to play with? He is a fucking snake, we won't see a penny of that money. He'll probably go out and buy another distressed asset at a snip of its true value to line his already bulging pocket whilst continuing to drain us dry. Die a death you lying little prick.

True ...... but as i said before everything came to light ... just before they bought the club ... my gut feeling was Gillett might be the right owner for us .... but always had a bad feeling about hicks .... just gut feeling before they bought us.

Red_Rich · « **Reply #67 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:18:38 pm »

Quote from: Leighc1979 on June 21, 2009, 10:20:05 am

I wouldn't be surprised if it was sold to a) help out with refinancing, b) to start getting stadium done, c) to partly fund moves in the transfer market.

Seems a good move to me.

IMO, that will be the last thing that he'll be using the funds for. Anyone thinking otherwise should prepare themselves for disappointment.

At the very best, we can hope that it goes towards starting the new stadium but i doubt it will.

I see it as a sacrifice that he's had to make to enable him to remain a part of the LFC ownership.

ladcameo · « **Reply #68 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:20:57 pm »

Its a Hope rather than Expectation,that he will put that money in LFC

shelovesyou · « **Reply #69 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:21:02 pm »

Quote from: rocco on June 21, 2009, 02:18:25 pm

True ...... but as i said before everything came to light ... just before they bought the club ... my gut feeling was Gillett might be the right owner for us .... but always had a bad feeling about hicks .... just gut feeling before they bought us.

I see yer point mate but after Gillett came out and said what he said about Rafa that was it for me . He can fuck off as much as Hicks .

shelovesyou · « **Reply #70 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:22:32 pm »

At the end of the day I dont believe for a minute he wanted to sell the Montreal "Franchise" , He had no choice because he has put himself in shit street because of his greed.

redmark · « **Reply #71 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:25:29 pm »

Quote from: Art Vandelay on June 21, 2009, 10:31:24 am

Why do people believe Gillett is a lesser evil than Hicks? Who was it that wanted Rafa out to begin with? Never trust a hobbit....

Anyway, didn't Gillett take a loan out on the Canadiens, or on the stadium or something? Wouldn't he have to pay that back with some of this money? Or was it a big loan with someone else that he's due to pay off?....I get confused with all these fucking loans flying around everywhere.

Regarding the Klinsmann stuff, I expect that Gillet was getting advice from someone who didn't think Rafa was up to it - possibly Parry, being Gillet's ally within the club and not exactly best mates with Rafa. On the money, I believe from various pieces I've read that Gillet had much more equity in the Canadiens than Hicks does anywhere.

Gillet, from the experience of the Canadiens, at least seems to have some affinity with running a 'sports franchise'. He doesn't seek the limelight and isn't constantly in the press. Gillet as sole or majority owner would, IMO, be preferable to the current arrangement, particularly now Parry has gone and Gillet is presumably more aware of the fans' attitude to Rafa.

A sale would be better still, of course. Personally I'm hoping something is going on quietly behind the scenes with a group that is clearly looking to buy a PL club (smokescreen on their declared interest which has now gone quiet?), has a Liverpool player in a prominent role, a Liverpool legend - no, the Liverpool legend - as a 'special advisor' and currently has the club plastered all over it's homepage.

Gedo · « **Reply #72 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:27:53 pm »

Quote from: shelovesyouyehyehyeh on June 21, 2009, 02:05:05 pm

I have no expectations of Gillett putting any of this money into LFC . None whatsoever.
He's a slimy little c*nt.

Agree with 100%

ladcameo · « **Reply #73 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:35:58 pm »

Quote from: Gedo on June 21, 2009, 02:27:53 pm

Agree with 100%

stueya · « **Reply #74 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:57:09 pm »

Quote from: shelovesyouyehyehyeh on June 21, 2009, 02:05:05 pm

I have no expectations of Gillett putting any of this money into LFC . None whatsoever.
He's a slimy little c*nt.

I agree with the slimy little c*nt bit but not the other, The Premier League and it's big clubs especially are showing themselves to be virtually recession proof- people are still spending as heavily as ever on tickets and merchandise and I think there is a train of thought now with Gillett and Hicks that they should maximise there stake in Liverpool FC at the expense of their much less profitable American sprots teams.

We may see some investment in the squad, but not a great deal, my belief now is that the stadium will be started sooner rather than later

Gedo · « **Reply #75 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:09:58 pm »

Quote from: stueya on June 21, 2009, 02:57:09 pm

I agree with the slimy little c*nt bit but not the other, The Premier League and it's big clubs especially are showing themselves to be virtually recession proof- people are still spending as heavily as ever on tickets and merchandise and I think there is a train of thought now with Gillett and Hicks that they should maximise there stake in Liverpool FC at the expense of their much less profitable American sprots teams.

We may see some investment in the squad, but not a great deal, my belief now is that the stadium will be started sooner rather than later

If and it's a big IF the Americans where to invested more funds into the club it would be directed towards a New Stadium!

Steve O · « **Reply #76 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:10:36 pm »

Quote from: N11RED on June 21, 2009, 02:14:54 pm

What's all this talk of Gillett being the 'better of two evils' now that he has more cash to play with? He is a fucking snake

I'm sure some well respected posters have mentioned that Gillett is to be trusted less than Hicks

nm83 · « **Reply #77 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:11:43 pm »

i won't be expecting the transfer kitty to be bolstered by this news.

TONYMAN · « **Reply #78 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:12:19 pm »

Quote from: Gedo on June 21, 2009, 03:09:58 pm

If and it's a big IF the Americans where to invested more funds into the club it would be directed towards a New Stadium!

About Fucking time then!!

ladcameo · « **Reply #79 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:21:01 pm »

Quote from: Gedo on June 21, 2009, 03:09:58 pm

If and it's a big IF the Americans where to invested more funds into the club it would be directed towards a New Stadium!

what about the transfer kitty then