Topic: Lucas

[shelovesyou]

Sky Sports understands . . . . sweet fuck all.

[Dr Cornwallis]

Yeah, I've been wondering that one myself as it happens. Could be one massive WUM/fishing trip - though one devoid of the humour I remember of Dr's posts in the past.

It's hard to keep up the facade mate, I'm only human. 
To be honest, I've had more than enough of all of this, of wondering whether or not a player is 'willing to stay' at Liverpool FC, it's just such an alien concept to me.  Not just as a Liverpool supporter, but a football supporter, knowing how massive it is to play for Liverpool FC makes it impossible for me to figure out why the likes of Benayoun, Crouch, and Bellamy would want out of the club to play elsewhere in England.
Same with Mascherano, he's in a position where he can be a footballing legend and a catalyst for this club to go on and become great once again, but instead he just fancies joining a Barca team at it's pinnacle, a place where he will never be remembered, and if he is remembered then the chances are it will be as supporters reminisce the point at which the palace of Barcelona came tumbling down around them.  There's no glory in what he's doing, no passion, just cash with fuck all tax taken out of it.
That's fine, if that's what you're about (and the MSI and West Ham thing suggests it is) then fair play, on you go.  But I'm a footballing romantic, and I like the idea of players being motivated by achievements and their role in the annuls of history at a particular club.  That's the aim for this club and Hodgson now, forget the status of players, forget it, I'm past big name signings now.  I would much rather we bought a League Two central midfielder for £800,000 who understood the magnitude of the job at Liverpool, and was happy to earn £40,000 a week and gave 100% every week because he loved this club and it's fans and respected it's history.
Signing £20m superstars always comes with a drawback, and it's usually a mixture of their ego and bastard agents who cannot keep their mouths shut about how they could earn £8,000 a week more if they move somewhere else.
For someone earning £1,500 a month, I can see the lure of wanting to boost your income by £8,000 per week.  But I cannot fathom what a player on £40,000 a week thinks when he suddenly realises that he cannot give his all unless he's offered £48,000 a week.  What on earth do these wankers do with the extra money?  Unless he's developing his own space programme, I just think that extra money is turning gold plated taps into platinum plated taps.
Well fuck you, I'll find a park player who could win a challenge against every one of these bastards, I guarantee you that.  I just wish it was Liverpool who decided to buck the trend and impose a wage cap on players.  Again, going back to the socialism and Shankly ideals, sharing the work and sharing the rewards, everyone is paid the same.  Reign in all the scouts looking at foreign and superstar targets and just have them scouring the UK leagues, we KNOW there's top talent around, it's a country of 40,000,000 people, there's top players being overlooked every week somewhere, not being given a second chance. 

I hate modern football, and I hate modern footballers.  Spineless wankers for the most part, fucking VH1-induced, moping, moody, metrosexual twats.

[Dr Cornwallis]

And I'd hold my breath on the Lucas thing, DJPhal is usually ominous with his predictions, especially of late.

[Hazell]

From Tony Barrett:

Lucas hasn't asked to leave...

Good.

[Visigoth33]

Sky Sports understands . . . . sweet fuck all.

Have slysports ever got anything right??I presume that they think since there is a "FOR SALE" sign outside the anfield gates that also include the players too.

[Dr Cornwallis]

And, playing Devils Advocate, but since when was TB a cast-iron source for transfer news?
Who would go out of their way to talk to TB on such news?

[hesbighesred]

Heh, that's a LOT more like the kind of posts I remember

Still, considering what your saying I'm surprised you've vented so much on Lucas, and seem to rate him so little. As we can see there's no negative quotes from him - every single public quote from the lad has been, if you like, 'Liverpool Way' through and through - and the same can be said of his attitude on the pitch too, and the way he's dealt with the bollocks from the fans and the media.

There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Lucas is one of the very few who in no way deserves to be included in that general 'modern players are c*nts' thing, which is totally fair enough. it's still true that our club boasts more of those than others though, it's something to be thankful for.

Even if this stuff is true about Lucas wanting out and Mash striking, I'd like to console myself that it's nowhere in the same league as Ronaldo being a disrespectful twat on the Munich anniversary and it being kept from the papers, Terry pissing himself, shagging around and mocking victims of a terrorist attack, or Adebayors three year saga of slating Arsenal and 'wanting out' one week, before professing his love and loyalty the next - though I appreciate that we determine our own standards and shouldn't set them by, or necessarily give a fuck, what other clubs/players do or do not do.

Just briefly on Mash - if they win another CL or two with him in the side, as a key performer (which I suspect is what will happen, he will solidify them further and make them a lot harder to beat, which makes them absolute CL favourites in my book) then he will go down among their legends - they are absolutely desperate for continued CL success because that's the one area in which Barca are still a 'smaller' club compared to the real giants like ourselves, AC and Real, for example.

Anyway, all that aside Lucas just seems more the kind of player you should be championing given what you've said.

[hesbighesred]

And I'd hold my breath on the Lucas thing, DJPhal is usually ominous with his predictions, especially of late.

That I do agree with, which is why I'm not being as dismissive of it as I'd usually be - that and the fact we were already seemingly negotiating with Palermo before Roy arrived.

[Dr Cornwallis]

I don't dislike Lucas, but I view him in the same way that I view Ngog, and that he should be back-up to someone a bit harder, a bit tougher, a bit better and bit more confident.
Both players obviously have talent, plenty of it, but it counts for very little against top level opposition if you don't believe in your ability and you don't have the physicality to impose your game on them.
And Lucas also tends to wind me up by being both too cautious and too lax...much of the time there'll be a space he could hit and force the play in a general direction, but he'll opt for a 10 yard pass to feet to a player to his side, who will then probably pass it back to him.
At the same time, he sometimes ooooonnnllllyyyyyy juuuuuuuust gets a cross-field ball away before getting it nipped off his toe by the opposition, and sometimes almost the last man.  You can either applaud him for never getting caught out, or not!

[Hazell]

And, playing Devils Advocate, but since when was TB a cast-iron source for transfer news?
Who would go out of their way to talk to TB on such news?

Well at the minute, its TB or Sky Sports News.

[John C]

Sky Sports Understands that one sentence can make any club's messageboards explode instantly.

[John C]

It's hard to keep up the facade mate, I'm only human. 
To be honest, I've had more than enough of all of this, of wondering whether or not a player is 'willing to stay' at Liverpool FC, it's just such an alien concept to me.  Not just as a Liverpool supporter, but a football supporter, knowing how massive it is to play for Liverpool FC makes it impossible for me to figure out why the likes of Benayoun, Crouch, and Bellamy would want out of the club to play elsewhere in England.
Same with Mascherano, he's in a position where he can be a footballing legend and a catalyst for this club to go on and become great once again, but instead he just fancies joining a Barca team at it's pinnacle, a place where he will never be remembered, and if he is remembered then the chances are it will be as supporters reminisce the point at which the palace of Barcelona came tumbling down around them.  There's no glory in what he's doing, no passion, just cash with fuck all tax taken out of it.
That's fine, if that's what you're about (and the MSI and West Ham thing suggests it is) then fair play, on you go.  But I'm a footballing romantic, and I like the idea of players being motivated by achievements and their role in the annuls of history at a particular club.  That's the aim for this club and Hodgson now, forget the status of players, forget it, I'm past big name signings now.  I would much rather we bought a League Two central midfielder for £800,000 who understood the magnitude of the job at Liverpool, and was happy to earn £40,000 a week and gave 100% every week because he loved this club and it's fans and respected it's history.
Signing £20m superstars always comes with a drawback, and it's usually a mixture of their ego and bastard agents who cannot keep their mouths shut about how they could earn £8,000 a week more if they move somewhere else.
For someone earning £1,500 a month, I can see the lure of wanting to boost your income by £8,000 per week.  But I cannot fathom what a player on £40,000 a week thinks when he suddenly realises that he cannot give his all unless he's offered £48,000 a week.  What on earth do these wankers do with the extra money?  Unless he's developing his own space programme, I just think that extra money is turning gold plated taps into platinum plated taps.
Well fuck you, I'll find a park player who could win a challenge against every one of these bastards, I guarantee you that.  I just wish it was Liverpool who decided to buck the trend and impose a wage cap on players.  Again, going back to the socialism and Shankly ideals, sharing the work and sharing the rewards, everyone is paid the same.  Reign in all the scouts looking at foreign and superstar targets and just have them scouring the UK leagues, we KNOW there's top talent around, it's a country of 40,000,000 people, there's top players being overlooked every week somewhere, not being given a second chance. 

I hate modern football, and I hate modern footballers.  Spineless wankers for the most part, fucking VH1-induced, moping, moody, metrosexual twats.

What a great post.

[exiledintheUSA]

It's hard to keep up the facade mate, I'm only human. 
To be honest, I've had more than enough of all of this, of wondering whether or not a player is 'willing to stay' at Liverpool FC, it's just such an alien concept to me.  Not just as a Liverpool supporter, but a football supporter, knowing how massive it is to play for Liverpool FC makes it impossible for me to figure out why the likes of Benayoun, Crouch, and Bellamy would want out of the club to play elsewhere in England.
Same with Mascherano, he's in a position where he can be a footballing legend and a catalyst for this club to go on and become great once again, but instead he just fancies joining a Barca team at it's pinnacle, a place where he will never be remembered, and if he is remembered then the chances are it will be as supporters reminisce the point at which the palace of Barcelona came tumbling down around them.  There's no glory in what he's doing, no passion, just cash with fuck all tax taken out of it.
That's fine, if that's what you're about (and the MSI and West Ham thing suggests it is) then fair play, on you go.  But I'm a footballing romantic, and I like the idea of players being motivated by achievements and their role in the annuls of history at a particular club.  That's the aim for this club and Hodgson now, forget the status of players, forget it, I'm past big name signings now.  I would much rather we bought a League Two central midfielder for £800,000 who understood the magnitude of the job at Liverpool, and was happy to earn £40,000 a week and gave 100% every week because he loved this club and it's fans and respected it's history.
Signing £20m superstars always comes with a drawback, and it's usually a mixture of their ego and bastard agents who cannot keep their mouths shut about how they could earn £8,000 a week more if they move somewhere else.
For someone earning £1,500 a month, I can see the lure of wanting to boost your income by £8,000 per week.  But I cannot fathom what a player on £40,000 a week thinks when he suddenly realises that he cannot give his all unless he's offered £48,000 a week.  What on earth do these wankers do with the extra money?  Unless he's developing his own space programme, I just think that extra money is turning gold plated taps into platinum plated taps.
Well fuck you, I'll find a park player who could win a challenge against every one of these bastards, I guarantee you that.  I just wish it was Liverpool who decided to buck the trend and impose a wage cap on players.  Again, going back to the socialism and Shankly ideals, sharing the work and sharing the rewards, everyone is paid the same.  Reign in all the scouts looking at foreign and superstar targets and just have them scouring the UK leagues, we KNOW there's top talent around, it's a country of 40,000,000 people, there's top players being overlooked every week somewhere, not being given a second chance. 

I hate modern football, and I hate modern footballers.  Spineless wankers for the most part, fucking VH1-induced, moping, moody, metrosexual twats.

So do you or don't you like modern day footballers?

[hesbighesred]

I don't dislike Lucas, but I view him in the same way that I view Ngog, and that he should be back-up to someone a bit harder, a bit tougher, a bit better and bit more confident.
Both players obviously have talent, plenty of it, but it counts for very little against top level opposition if you don't believe in your ability and you don't have the physicality to impose your game on them.
And Lucas also tends to wind me up by being both too cautious and too lax...much of the time there'll be a space he could hit and force the play in a general direction, but he'll opt for a 10 yard pass to feet to a player to his side, who will then probably pass it back to him.
At the same time, he sometimes ooooonnnllllyyyyyy juuuuuuuust gets a cross-field ball away before getting it nipped off his toe by the opposition, and sometimes almost the last man.  You can either applaud him for never getting caught out, or not!

Fair enough, don't totally agree but that's a much better post.

Though as it stands we need Lucas a lot more than he needs us, I reckon.

[hesbighesred]

Thinking about it - the one place I massively disagree on your quality rant there, Dr, is  on the British players thing.

I couldn't really give a fuck about 'British Players' - I DO give a fuck that this country isn't producing them because our coaching systems are a total joke - I do give a fuck that, like you indicate, we DO indeed have massive, massive numbers of young players going into the game who are being put off it by the shite coaching and the shite atmosphere we expect our youngsters to learn in.

On the other hand, I love good players, and I've been dreaming about LFC being the kind of club that can attract the likes of Insua and Lucas before they become out of our league for transfer fees (IE, getting in young, promising Latin American players before they go to Spain/Italy and then grow to being well beyond our finances).

The stuff that's happening with our young Latin players at the moment is worrying me that that little dream may be coming to an end, which from my point of view is a real fucking shame. I've always wanted to see great players playing together - and if a lot of those are locals/Brits who we've 'grown' ourselves then so much the better, but there'll always be room in that (in my heart) for players like Lucas (at the time he signed - whatever you think of him now - I ALWAYS want us to be the kind of club that is able to sign last years Brazilian footballer of the year award).

[scouse29]

It's hard to keep up the facade mate, I'm only human. 
To be honest, I've had more than enough of all of this, of wondering whether or not a player is 'willing to stay' at Liverpool FC, it's just such an alien concept to me.  Not just as a Liverpool supporter, but a football supporter, knowing how massive it is to play for Liverpool FC makes it impossible for me to figure out why the likes of Benayoun, Crouch, and Bellamy would want out of the club to play elsewhere in England.
Same with Mascherano, he's in a position where he can be a footballing legend and a catalyst for this club to go on and become great once again, but instead he just fancies joining a Barca team at it's pinnacle, a place where he will never be remembered, and if he is remembered then the chances are it will be as supporters reminisce the point at which the palace of Barcelona came tumbling down around them.  There's no glory in what he's doing, no passion, just cash with fuck all tax taken out of it.
That's fine, if that's what you're about (and the MSI and West Ham thing suggests it is) then fair play, on you go.  But I'm a footballing romantic, and I like the idea of players being motivated by achievements and their role in the annuls of history at a particular club.  That's the aim for this club and Hodgson now, forget the status of players, forget it, I'm past big name signings now.  I would much rather we bought a League Two central midfielder for £800,000 who understood the magnitude of the job at Liverpool, and was happy to earn £40,000 a week and gave 100% every week because he loved this club and it's fans and respected it's history.
Signing £20m superstars always comes with a drawback, and it's usually a mixture of their ego and bastard agents who cannot keep their mouths shut about how they could earn £8,000 a week more if they move somewhere else.
For someone earning £1,500 a month, I can see the lure of wanting to boost your income by £8,000 per week.  But I cannot fathom what a player on £40,000 a week thinks when he suddenly realises that he cannot give his all unless he's offered £48,000 a week.  What on earth do these wankers do with the extra money?  Unless he's developing his own space programme, I just think that extra money is turning gold plated taps into platinum plated taps.
Well fuck you, I'll find a park player who could win a challenge against every one of these bastards, I guarantee you that.  I just wish it was Liverpool who decided to buck the trend and impose a wage cap on players.  Again, going back to the socialism and Shankly ideals, sharing the work and sharing the rewards, everyone is paid the same.  Reign in all the scouts looking at foreign and superstar targets and just have them scouring the UK leagues, we KNOW there's top talent around, it's a country of 40,000,000 people, there's top players being overlooked every week somewhere, not being given a second chance. 

I hate modern football, and I hate modern footballers.  Spineless wankers for the most part, fucking VH1-induced, moping, moody, metrosexual twats.

Your certainly not alone with your comments in this post mate

[Number 7]

Told you it was a wind-up.

[Dr Cornwallis]

The prime concern with signing a top player is that from the moment he signs, we worry about when he thinks he's outgrown us.
From the very moment he signs the contract, we're looking over our shoulder and worrying about him leaving.
Fuck that, we're better than that, we're better than them, what a fucked up world modern football is.  This club has a history and a sense of tradition that makes people cry, that makes people feel part of a beautiful ideal.  I'm no longer prepared to watch players try to undermine that.
I want the manager to know that the fans ONLY accept people 100% committed to the club, and I give the manager carte blanche to get rid of any of these pariahs from the minute they complain.  Because every minute after that that we pander to them, that we entertain their greed or tantrums, it's offensive to me and it should be offensive to us all.
Are we not good enough for you?  Is Anfield not good enough for you?  How fucking dare you, you aren't worth a minute more of my time or support.

[Hinesy]

I'm surprised anyone gives a hummingbird's left testicle half hourly output of sperm for anything Sky Sports comes out with.

[Sangria]

The prime concern with signing a top player is that from the moment he signs, we worry about when he thinks he's outgrown us.
From the very moment he signs the contract, we're looking over our shoulder and worrying about him leaving.
Fuck that, we're better than that, we're better than them, what a fucked up world modern football is.  This club has a history and a sense of tradition that makes people cry, that makes people feel part of a beautiful ideal.  I'm no longer prepared to watch players try to undermine that.
I want the manager to know that the fans ONLY accept people 100% committed to the club, and I give the manager carte blanche to get rid of any of these pariahs from the minute they complain.  Because every minute after that that we pander to them, that we entertain their greed or tantrums, it's offensive to me and it should be offensive to us all.
Are we not good enough for you?  Is Anfield not good enough for you?  How fucking dare you, you aren't worth a minute more of my time or support.

And what about the players like Lucas, Kuyt and others who are prepared to buy into the history and identity of the club, who place the club over the player, but who are abused for their unselfishness and dismissed in favour of more glamorous prima donnas? Is there not a 2-way responsibility between players and supporters?

[Dr Cornwallis]

And what about the players like Lucas, Kuyt and others who are prepared to buy into the history and identity of the club, who place the club over the player, but who are abused for their unselfishness and dismissed in favour of more glamorous prima donnas? Is there not a 2-way responsibility between players and supporters?

Of course there are those who do buy into it, just as there are British players (Pennant etc) who are quite unfit to play for us.

[Sangria]

Of course there are those who do buy into it, just as there are British players (Pennant etc) who are quite unfit to play for us.

So what do you think of the fans who target unglamorous players who follow the ethos you describe? Because it's usually those low profile players whose contributions get underplayed and whose failings get overplayed, and who get scapegoated as a result. If, after a few years of unfavourable treatment compared with the "top players" who are constantly surrounded by "will they won't they" gossip, they get tired and want away, whose fault is it?

[steveeastend]

And what about the players like Lucas, Kuyt and others who are prepared to buy into the history and identity of the club, who place the club over the player, but who are abused for their unselfishness and dismissed in favour of more glamorous prima donnas? Is there not a 2-way responsibility between players and supporters?

For me Roy´s decision in favour for Mascherano did exactly that, going AGAINST true commitment...

But anyway, I agree with the Docs opinion 100%. Most of them are just spoiled idiots, not more not less due to this insane wages paid. And english football, sadly, sold it´s soul a long time ago.

[John C]

Thinking about it - the one place I massively disagree on your quality rant there, Dr, is  on the British players thing.

I couldn't really give a fuck about 'British Players' - I DO give a fuck that this country isn't producing them because our coaching systems are a total joke -

See, and you wonder why the sign posts on the M25 keep guiding you right as you travel clockwise. Its because, against the better judgement of the North London Highways Agency, we've entrapped you in the loop that prevents you coming up here and releasing unmeaningful, convoluted messages that don't make sense to our innocent youth in the pride of Merseyside.

Remind me to take more LSD before I visit you down there.

[Goethe]

Out of interest, if we're signing Meireles, according to the Guardian-a solid central/defensive midfield performer, a tough fucker, capable of box to box and blessedly free of the '13 year old girl' physique of Lucas, and we now have a dedicated enforce to replace that prick Mascherano in the shape of Poulsen, then how will Lucas fit into this schemata? As a regular first-team player, I mean? Surely he will be back to bench-warming and acting as back-up? Thoughts?

[JovaJova]

Out of interest, if we're signing Meireles, according to the Guardian-a solid central/defensive midfield performer, a tough fucker, capable of box to box and blessedly free of the '13 year old girl' physique of Lucas, and we now have a dedicated enforce to replace that prick Mascherano in the shape of Poulsen, then how will Lucas fit into this schemata? As a regular first-team player, I mean? Surely he will be back to bench-warming and acting as back-up? Thoughts?

He'll be fighting it out with Poulsen for the first reserve spot when Gerrard or Meireles or Cole are injured. May the best man win. He needs a kick up his arse to actually start performing like a top player should, if of course he even has the ability to do so which is still open to question.

[caze]

If we play our best team, i.e. three central midfielders, then he has every chance to remain a regular. If Hodgson is determined to keep Cole playing behind Torres though he'll probably be on rotation duty.

[Goethe]

He'll be fighting it out with Poulsen for the first reserve spot when Gerrard or Meireles or Cole are injured. May the best man win. He needs a kick up his arse to actually start performing like a top player should, if of course he even has the ability to do so which is still open to question.

I was hoping that this would be the case. I haven't been on Lucas' back like some others have on here, but I breathed a massive sigh of relief when the penny dropped that Hodgson doesn't seem to think he is good enough to play a starting role.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

It's hard to keep up the facade mate, I'm only human. 
To be honest, I've had more than enough of all of this, of wondering whether or not a player is 'willing to stay' at Liverpool FC, it's just such an alien concept to me.  Not just as a Liverpool supporter, but a football supporter, knowing how massive it is to play for Liverpool FC makes it impossible for me to figure out why the likes of Benayoun, Crouch, and Bellamy would want out of the club to play elsewhere in England.
Same with Mascherano, he's in a position where he can be a footballing legend and a catalyst for this club to go on and become great once again, but instead he just fancies joining a Barca team at it's pinnacle, a place where he will never be remembered, and if he is remembered then the chances are it will be as supporters reminisce the point at which the palace of Barcelona came tumbling down around them.  There's no glory in what he's doing, no passion, just cash with fuck all tax taken out of it.
That's fine, if that's what you're about (and the MSI and West Ham thing suggests it is) then fair play, on you go.  But I'm a footballing romantic, and I like the idea of players being motivated by achievements and their role in the annuls of history at a particular club.  That's the aim for this club and Hodgson now, forget the status of players, forget it, I'm past big name signings now.  I would much rather we bought a League Two central midfielder for £800,000 who understood the magnitude of the job at Liverpool, and was happy to earn £40,000 a week and gave 100% every week because he loved this club and it's fans and respected it's history.
Signing £20m superstars always comes with a drawback, and it's usually a mixture of their ego and bastard agents who cannot keep their mouths shut about how they could earn £8,000 a week more if they move somewhere else.
For someone earning £1,500 a month, I can see the lure of wanting to boost your income by £8,000 per week.  But I cannot fathom what a player on £40,000 a week thinks when he suddenly realises that he cannot give his all unless he's offered £48,000 a week.  What on earth do these wankers do with the extra money?  Unless he's developing his own space programme, I just think that extra money is turning gold plated taps into platinum plated taps.
Well fuck you, I'll find a park player who could win a challenge against every one of these bastards, I guarantee you that.  I just wish it was Liverpool who decided to buck the trend and impose a wage cap on players.  Again, going back to the socialism and Shankly ideals, sharing the work and sharing the rewards, everyone is paid the same.  Reign in all the scouts looking at foreign and superstar targets and just have them scouring the UK leagues, we KNOW there's top talent around, it's a country of 40,000,000 people, there's top players being overlooked every week somewhere, not being given a second chance. 

I hate modern football, and I hate modern footballers.  Spineless wankers for the most part, fucking VH1-induced, moping, moody, metrosexual twats.

Without wanting to take this thread off topic and with the knowledge that this is being debated to death elsewhere...from all the evidence so far it seems that Mascherano is not leaving for a pay hike but because his family cannot settle in England. It seems that he raised the issue last season and was basically told that if he stuck it out for one more season (to give us the chance to adapt to losing our other first choice midfielder at that point) we would let him leave this transfer window. I agree with all that you are saying about modern football etc, but for me Mascherano has been behaving this way for family reasons and not for financial reasons.

As a hypothetical situation (I have no idea whether this was the case with Mascherano), if you played for Liverpool and your wife, the mother of your children, told you that you had to choose between her/the family and Liverpool Football Club, what would you do??

[TSC]

Think it's about time to see what exactly Lucas can deliver.  Give him 4-6 games playing as an advanced midfielder; I.e. with a licence to attack, get forward, score, etc.

If he fails then at least we know we've given him the best shot.  As of now he's a nothing player.  Takes the short pass, delivers the short pass, doesn't move much, etc.

Need to know one way or the other if he's gonna have a future. 

[rusty-la]

Think it's about time to see what exactly Lucas can deliver.  Give him 4-6 games playing as an advanced midfielder; I.e. with a licence to attack, get forward, score, etc.

If he fails then at least we know we've given him the best shot.  As of now he's a nothing player.  Takes the short pass, delivers the short pass, doesn't move much, etc.

Need to know one way or the other if he's gonna have a future.

i dont play 'footy manager' on PS3 or the Wii, but if i did.....i'd be you.

[TSC]

i dont play 'footy manager' on PS3 or the Wii, but if i did.....i'd be you.

Fair enough then.  What's your opinion of Lucas?

[carra1892]

Thought he was one of our best players last season. But really you have to score goals from midfield. You don't have to do it all the time, because that's what strikers are for. But there are no goals coming from midfield and that is bad. Mascherano never scored and Lucas never scores. Aquilani could score but he is gone. Poulsen can't score. I think you should expect from every player to score goals. Especially does who are playing in midfield.

[rusty-la]

Not available on PS3 or Wii you fucking noob!!

you really get it..

[koolkamal]

Fair enough then.  What's your opinion of Lucas?

After playing so long as just a defensive midfielder he'll need more than 4-6 games. Though I do think that he should be given license get forward. Couple times I noticed in the last 2 games, he gets the ball and then almost looks like he's about to run with the ball and get forward but refrains and goes with the safer option. Not sure what it's down to but for me he has good close control when getting forward and he passing and movement will serve the team better in a more advanced position.

So he doesn't need to be played as an attacking midfielder (as in behind the striker) more that he just needs that freedom to get forward and be more influential.

[TSC]

Thought he was one of our best players last season. But really you have to score goals from midfield. You don't have to do it all the time, because that's what strikers are for. But there are no goals coming from midfield and that is bad. Mascherano never scored and Lucas never scores. Aquilani could score but he is gone. Poulsen can't score. I think you should expect from every player to score goals. Especially does who are playing in midfield.

The lack of goals from midfield has been a prob for Liverpool for the last few years.  One of the big weaknesses.  Total reliance on Torres and other periodic attackers.  Nothing consistent from midfield in terms of contributing to goals scored.

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After playing so long as just a defensive midfielder he'll need more than 4-6 games. Though I do think that he should be given license get forward. Couple times I noticed in the last 2 games, he gets the ball and then almost looks like he's about to run with the ball and get forward but refrains and goes with the safer option. Not sure what it's down to but for me he has good close control when getting forward and he passing and movement will serve the team better in a more advanced position.

So he doesn't need to be played as an attacking midfielder (as in behind the striker) more that he just needs that freedom to get forward and be more influential.

I think the one word you're missing there is 'confidence'.  But sometimes the onus is on the player.

[carra1892]

The lack of goals from midfield has been a prob for Liverpool for the last few years.  One of the big weaknesses.  Total reliance on Torres and other periodic attackers.  Nothing consistent from midfield in terms of contributing to goals scored.

Yeah but what i would like to add is, that even the defenders should chip in with a goal in matches. Glen Johsnon is a really good example, he will score some goals a season or create some. But also our central defenders never score goals, no headers, nothing. Agger used to do it, but it looks like that's gone too. Also i don't really see assists from Lucas or Mascherano. Mascherano a few, but it is really bad. I thought we took care of it with Aquilani but now our only attacking midfield option (besides Gerrard) is gone.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

you really get it..

That was a joke Rusty, lighten up a bit. I know it's hard because we're utterly fucked, but I really did chuckle at that by Achmat.

As for Lucas. If this Mierles transfer goes through, i can them being the partnership in the middle if we were to play 4231. I've got to say, i've not been impressed with Poulsen, whilst trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as the lads well off the match pace, if we throw him into any game against any from the top 10 of the prem, he'll get overrun. Just my opinion and i hope he proves me clueless, which i mostly am.

I think Lucas will do well, but only alongside someone who doesn't get a nosebleed from going to far up the pitch and shooting. We need some dynamism from our center midfield, either that or total, unmoving solidity that no one can get through. When we had Masch and Alonso we had both. Hardly any fucker got past them and alonso's passing gave us the spark and dynamism. Now, i'm staring at our midfield and i've no idea where it's going to come from bar Gerrard.

IF we played a 4231 against West brom this sunday, i'd honestly love it to be:

                       Reina

Johnson   Skrtel     Agger    Kelly/Insua

         Lucas       Gerrard


Babel         Pacecho       Jovanovic
 
                  Torres

I honestly think we'd shift it about really well and if Gerrard and Lucas can cover each other for going forward, we could finally see some goals from midfield. Obviously if the Mierles deal goes through, move gerrard into the hole, Dani to the bench and Raul next to Lucas.

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Yeah but what i would like to add is, that even the defenders should chip in with a goal in matches. Glen Johsnon is a really good example, he will score some goals a season or create some. But also our central defenders never score goals, no headers, nothing. Agger used to do it, but it looks like that's gone too. Also i don't really see assists from Lucas or Mascherano. Mascherano a few, but it is really bad. I thought we took care of it with Aquilani but now our only attacking midfield option (besides Gerrard) is gone.

You'd expect the odd defender to chip in with goals now and again.  Hypia was a good example.  Agger to a lesser extent.  But a successfull team needs a goalscoring midfield.  We've not had that for a while.  Goals from defenders are a bonus.