Topic: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion

[El Rey, por favor]

I'll do a write up on him on Friday, cannot be arsed tonight and going out tomorrow - but i'll post it on the main forum and it'll be nice and conclusive for Henderson's naysayers.

[El Rey, por favor]

Damien has been wrong more times than he has been right ... Woodgate, Bentley, Santos, etc ...

Dos Santos if played right could still be decent for Spurs actually.

[MiddleMan]

Seen nothing to justify that price tag ... is clearly still very raw work in progress, but you don't spend that much money on work in progress. Scandalous we paid that much for him.

His side passes, hiding, not demanding the ball make Lucas look cutting edge in comparisson.

wow. just wow.

i watched the u21 game particularly to keep an eye on him.

side passing? the thing i was impressed with the most was how he knew when to look forward and make a good pass. he did that quite a bit.

hiding? give me a break. he was always moving into space to receive the ball. his defender chose rather to boot it upfield.

not demanding it? there were quite a few times he came back to the CBs and took it off their feet. as a DM, you can't always demand the ball from the CBs. they see they entire field, you only see where the ball is. by demanding it you can put yourself in a bad spot.



it seems you're just looking for a reason to justify scrutinizing the purchase, cause you obviously weren't watching what i was watching. sure, he didn't set the field alight, but you can see the type of player that he is and wants to be. in this particular team, however, his own set of skills don't comply with hoofball. give him a break. the entire team was outplayed by UKRAINE. he's not entirely at fault.

[Ken-Obi]

Henderson was playing with a bunch of people that he didn't know very well, and the same will be expected for us when the new season starts.

Give him a break already.

[El Rey, por favor]

wow. just wow.

i watched the u21 game particularly to keep an eye on him.

side passing? the thing i was impressed with the most was how he knew when to look forward and make a good pass. he did that quite a bit.

hiding? give me a break. he was always moving into space to receive the ball. his defender chose rather to boot it upfield.

not demanding it? there were quite a few times he came back to the CBs and took it off their feet. as a DM, you can't always demand the ball from the CBs. they see they entire field, you only see where the ball is. by demanding it you can put yourself in a bad spot.



it seems you're just looking for a reason to justify scrutinizing the purchase, cause you obviously weren't watching what i was watching. sure, he didn't set the field alight, but you can see the type of player that he is and wants to be. in this particular team, however, his own set of skills don't comply with hoofball. give him a break. the entire team was outplayed by UKRAINE. he's not entirely at fault.

I like Jordan, alot actually. But you cannot, based on an honest assessment of his 2 U21's performances so far come to the conclusion that he doesn't hide - he has been hiding - a big part of that is because for some reason he is being asked to play as a Quarter Back - a position which he is entirely unfamiliar with. However note that I said an assessment of his U21's performances in this tournament, this is not what us fans should be judging him on, if you have the time and patience and want to come on here and spout any opinion (this is not referring the quoted poster) regarding Jordan, then until you have watched him play several times in the league for Sunderland you cannot really be relied on to produce an opinion which isn't kneejerk.

[JasbinderX]

I like Jordan, alot actually. But you cannot, based on an honest assessment of his 2 U21's performances so far come to the conclusion that he doesn't hide - he has been hiding - a big part of that is because for some reason he is being asked to play as a Quarter Back - a position which he is entirely unfamiliar with. However note that I said an assessment of his U21's performances in this tournament, this is not what us fans should be judging him on, if you have the time and patience and want to come on here and spout any opinion (this is not referring the quoted poster) regarding Jordan, then until you have watched him play several times in the league for Sunderland you cannot really be relied on to produce an opinion which isn't kneejerk.

He's played alot for Sunderland in the holding role, it's not a new role for him. Maybe not his best role, but not something alien to him. It's a huge problem in his game, is when the central defenders have it, he doesn't demand that ball, he doesn't berate the defenders (who for the U21's are his own age, and he is the main star so he shouldn't be afraid) for not giving him the ball; instead he'll just stand next to the opposition player and make the defense pass it somwhere else. You can get away with alot of mistakes when you don't have to take up responsibility and take risks, which is what Henderson likes to do. In my eyes it's a bigger crime and weakness not asking for a pass, than recieving a pass and losing it.

I've seen him so many times for Sunderland this season. I just don't know where the amount we paid for him came from. Was there a bidding war? I can't recall too many reports of teams in for him. The Mancs looked at him last year, but if they really wanted him, and Brucey being Alex Fergersons love child, they would have got him. So where has this massive transfer amount come from? It's scandalous. Not even Sunderland fans are crying about this one, they can't believe their luck. Even Bruce is stangley happy with it. You know there's a problem if Bruce is happy.

[The Portuguese Kopite]

He's played alot for Sunderland in the holding role, it's not a new role for him. Maybe not his best role, but not something alien to him. It's a huge problem in his game, is when the central defenders have it, he doesn't demand that ball, he doesn't berate the defenders (who for the U21's are his own age, and he is the main star so he shouldn't be afraid) for not giving him the ball; instead he'll just stand next to the opposition player and make the defense pass it somwhere else. You can get away with alot of mistakes when you don't have to take up responsibility and take risks, which is what Henderson likes to do. In my eyes it's a bigger crime and weakness not asking for a pass, than recieving a pass and losing it.

I've seen him so many times for Sunderland this season. I just don't know where the amount we paid for him came from. Was there a bidding war? I can't recall too many reports of teams in for him. The Mancs looked at him last year, but if they really wanted him, and Brucey being Alex Fergersons love child, they would have got him. So where has this massive transfer amount come from? It's scandalous. Not even Sunderland fans are crying about this one, they can't believe their luck. Even Bruce is stangley happy with it. You know there's a problem if Bruce is happy.

First off, what has Comolli ever done to you to make you question and hate every one of his moves? Second off, what has Kenny ever done to you to make you not trust him? And finally, what has Hendo done to you to make you rate him worse than Mancienne as a midfielder ("In my eye's it's a bigger crime and weakness not asking for a pass, than recieving a pass and losing it.")?

Wait until Kenny has a go at him rather than Pearce or Bruce before you judge him. From what I've seen from actual Sunderland fans who actually know about him, he was apparently pretty out of his shell and was always demanding the ball. Maybe he just feels out of place in this formation/this position or he's just given up on it because every time the defenders or other mids have the ball they just boot it anyway so, he's just given up on even trying to get the ball from them.

All I know is that when he does get the ball, he looks quality from the first touch to the last. He showed a good bit of speed at the end on the counter before he gave it away trying to dish it to Sinclair, and he's obviously got a good set of legs to play the full 90 of both of these games following a full season. So he's obviously got good potential.

Once he's with us, I think he'll end up playing RM in our side, he's got enough speed to turn a defender, he seems to have a good cross on his foot, likes to work give and go's, and has experience in that position.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

There are tribes long lost in the Andes who have had zero contact with the rest of humanity for a thousand years who know that trying to reason with a Jasbinderx post is pointless.

[Ken-Obi]

Jordan Henderson has played 0 games for Liverpool.

How's he doing for us so far?

[Finn Solomon]

First off, what has Comolli ever done to you to make you question and hate every one of his moves? Second off, what has Kenny ever done to you to make you not trust him? And finally, what has Hendo done to you to make you rate him worse than Mancienne as a midfielder ("In my eye's it's a bigger crime and weakness not asking for a pass, than recieving a pass and losing it.")?

Wait until Kenny has a go at him rather than Pearce or Bruce before you judge him. From what I've seen from actual Sunderland fans who actually know about him, he was apparently pretty out of his shell and was always demanding the ball. Maybe he just feels out of place in this formation/this position or he's just given up on it because every time the defenders or other mids have the ball they just boot it anyway so, he's just given up on even trying to get the ball from them.

All I know is that when he does get the ball, he looks quality from the first touch to the last. He showed a good bit of speed at the end on the counter before he gave it away trying to dish it to Sinclair, and he's obviously got a good set of legs to play the full 90 of both of these games following a full season. So he's obviously got good potential.

Once he's with us, I think he'll end up playing RM in our side, he's got enough speed to turn a defender, he seems to have a good cross on his foot, likes to work give and go's, and has experience in that position.

Listen to me very carefully my friend. Arguing with trolls on the Internet will not bring you peace.

[BeautifulGame91]

He's played alot for Sunderland in the holding role, it's not a new role for him. Maybe not his best role, but not something alien to him. It's a huge problem in his game, is when the central defenders have it, he doesn't demand that ball, he doesn't berate the defenders (who for the U21's are his own age, and he is the main star so he shouldn't be afraid) for not giving him the ball; instead he'll just stand next to the opposition player and make the defense pass it somwhere else. You can get away with alot of mistakes when you don't have to take up responsibility and take risks, which is what Henderson likes to do. In my eyes it's a bigger crime and weakness not asking for a pass, than recieving a pass and losing it.

I've seen him so many times for Sunderland this season. I just don't know where the amount we paid for him came from. Was there a bidding war? I can't recall too many reports of teams in for him. The Mancs looked at him last year, but if they really wanted him, and Brucey being Alex Fergersons love child, they would have got him. So where has this massive transfer amount come from? It's scandalous. Not even Sunderland fans are crying about this one, they can't believe their luck. Even Bruce is stangley happy with it. You know there's a problem if Bruce is happy.

He has rarely played in holding role for Sunderland in last 2 seasons. Why are just making up things so that u can slate one of our players ?

The way some here wanting to slate our players without even giving them a chance play for us is  pretty disgusting.

[Passmaster Molby]

He's played alot for Sunderland in the holding role, it's not a new role for him. Maybe not his best role, but not something alien to him. It's a huge problem in his game, is when the central defenders have it, he doesn't demand that ball, he doesn't berate the defenders (who for the U21's are his own age, and he is the main star so he shouldn't be afraid) for not giving him the ball; instead he'll just stand next to the opposition player and make the defense pass it somwhere else. You can get away with alot of mistakes when you don't have to take up responsibility and take risks, which is what Henderson likes to do. In my eyes it's a bigger crime and weakness not asking for a pass, than recieving a pass and losing it.

I've seen him so many times for Sunderland this season. I just don't know where the amount we paid for him came from. Was there a bidding war? I can't recall too many reports of teams in for him. The Mancs looked at him last year, but if they really wanted him, and Brucey being Alex Fergersons love child, they would have got him. So where has this massive transfer amount come from? It's scandalous. Not even Sunderland fans are crying about this one, they can't believe their luck. Even Bruce is stangley happy with it. You know there's a problem if Bruce is happy.

Rubbish, he has played wide right a lot and at times played central midfield but alongside Cattermole who was the holding midfielder. You must have been watching a different Sunderland matches to everyone else!

[JasbinderX]

He's played the holding role a fair few times for Sunderland.  Sunderland often away from home, employ two holding midfield players. He's also played that role many times at home. He also played that role for England in his solitary cap.

[Top of the Kop]

I don't think Henderson will get a chance to show his true abilities in the U21-euros.
All England does is either clear it out on the flanks, often over the sideline or having Smalling/Jones hoofing the ball over the midfield and hope that whoever plays up front manages to catch it.
Obviously superb coaching skills by Mr. Pearce.
Wonder if he even saw the CL-final...

[JasbinderX]

I don't think Henderson will get a chance to show his true abilities in the U21-euros.
All England does is either clear it out on the flanks, often over the sideline or having Smalling/Jones hoofing the ball over the midfield and hope that whoever plays up front manages to catch it.
Obviously superb coaching skills by Mr. Pearce.
Wonder if he even saw the CL-final...

It would help if the midfield did something with the ball, rather than just give it back to the defenders, or stand next to opponents so they can't get a pass.

[Top of the Kop]

It would help if the midfield did something with the ball, rather than just give it back to the defenders, or stand next to opponents so they can't get a pass.

True. I still would like to see Stuart Pearces tactical board though 

[mac_ingram10]

I think he'll thrive under Kenny. Saw him demand the ball from the CBs numerous times....this will limit our hoofing ability. Seriously though, give Hendo a break. no need to start jumping to conclusions because of some U-21 performances....

[mattsant]

Jordan Henderson has played 0 games for Liverpool.

How's he doing for us so far?

Precisely

[JasbinderX]

Jordan Henderson has played 0 games for Liverpool.

How's he doing for us so far?

I don't think many of us are questioning that Henderson is a decent player, and one with a bright future, it's just the amount we payed for him. It seems a huge waste. Especially when it doesn't appear we have a blank cheque book, and are then haggling about 2-3 million over the deal for Adam!

[jason42]

I don't think many of us are questioning that Henderson is a decent player, and one with a bright future, it's just the amount we payed for him. It seems a huge waste. Especially when it doesn't appear we have a blank cheque book, and are then haggling about 2-3 million over the deal for Adam!

Why does the fee matter so much? They asked for a price and we paid it - end of story. How do you know that we don't have a blank cheque book and how do you know we are haggling over Adam and 2-3 million?

[JasbinderX]

Why does the fee matter so much? They asked for a price and we paid it - end of story. How do you know that we don't have a blank cheque book and how do you know we are haggling over Adam and 2-3 million?

Obviously fees do matter, because if you have a budget, then you have to spend the money carefully, and ration it where you need it.

[doc_antonio]

Obviously fees do matter, because if you have a budget, then you have to spend the money carefully, and ration it where you need it.

but it will always come back to the what if he goes on to be one of the great liverpool players? will 20mil have been too much for us to pay for him then? at the end of the day, kenny, damien and FSG are not going to be foolish with 20mil.. if they seem that its sufficiant price to pay for him then by all means they have my backing, afterall these guys have alot more experience in dealing with buying players, and spotting young upcoming talent (kenny in particular) than you or myself.

[Top of the Kop]

but it will always come back to the what if he goes on to be one of the great liverpool players? will 20mil have been too much for us to pay for him then? at the end of the day, kenny, damien and FSG are not going to be foolish with 20mil.. if they seem that its sufficiant price to pay for him then by all means they have my backing, afterall these guys have alot more experience in dealing with buying players, and spotting young upcoming talent (kenny in particular) than you or myself.

Exactly.
For example:

Benitez had Torres & Alonso
Hodgson had Poulsen & Konchesky
Kenny, so far, has Suarez & Carroll

[drpepe]

Seen nothing to justify that price tag ... is clearly still very raw work in progress, but you don't spend that much money on work in progress. Scandalous we paid that much for him.

His side passes, hiding, not demanding the ball make Lucas look cutting edge in comparisson.

not seen him play for liverpool yet, so not going to make any judgements - clearly he was a stand-out player (at least sporadically) for sunderland last season, so he must be capable in some areas - clearly our management team feel he can be improved further by coaching under their supervision. Shouldn't be understated that he's also bigger than most our average midfielders, and we need that in our squad of cm pygmies.

as for the $$$, it could be said it is a bit high , but i'm not signing the cheques and have no idea of the overall plan at the club for spending, so best to sit back and enjoy 

[Hazell]

Henderson: The new Lucas (in more ways than one).

[doc_antonio]

Henderson: The new Lucas.

no. lucas had no experience of premier league football before he came, henderson has had a season or too.. lucas had the expectations that he was going to be the brazilian wiz kid with tricks you couldnt even imagine, so when we found out he didnt everyone turned on him. with henderson we know what he can do.. hes proven himself in the league, all he needs to do now is, find his spot work hard and try to settle into the liverpool squad, then we can start saying how good or bad he is... he hasnt even set foot on the pitch in a liverpool kit.. lets not jump to conclusions

[Vidocq]

Henderson: The new Lucas (in more ways than one).

ugh?

[Hazell]

no. lucas had no experience of premier league football before he came, henderson has had a season or too.. lucas had the expectations that he was going to be the brazilian wiz kid with tricks you couldnt even imagine, so when we found out he didnt everyone turned on him. with henderson we know what he can do.. hes proven himself in the league, all he needs to do now is, find his spot work hard and try to settle into the liverpool squad, then we can start saying how good or bad he is... he hasnt even set foot on the pitch in a liverpool kit.. lets not jump to conclusions

Evidently, some people don't know what he can do, judging by Jasbinder's posts. The people jumping to conclusions are those who are judging a player before he's kicked a ball for us. What happens when he's played his first 2 or 3 games and hasn't 'stood out' with a goal or an assist? The knives will be out, as they were for Lucas. Just look at Jasbinder's posts in the Lucas threads. He's saying the same things here.

[doc_antonio]

Evidently, some people don't know what he can do, judging by Jasbinder's posts. The people jumping to conclusions are those who are judging a player before he's kicked a ball for us. What happens when he's played his first 2 or 3 games and hasn't 'stood out' with a goal or an assist? The knives will be out, as they were for Lucas. Just look at Jasbinder's posts in the Lucas threads. He's saying the same things here.

im guessing i got the wrong end of this, i thought you were saying he'll be like lucas in the first 2 seasons where he was crap.. but your actually saying that he'll be given the same treatment as when lucas came here? am i right? 

[Hazell]

im guessing i got the wrong end of this, i thought you were saying he'll be like lucas in the first 2 seasons where he was crap.. but your actually saying that he'll be given the same treatment as when lucas came here? am i right? 

Yep. Although Lucas was never crap.

[helmboy_nige]

You know aside from a handful of games... John Barnes never really reproduced his club form for England.  Come to think of it, neither did McManaman, Redknapp or Fowler.  And can you honestly say that Gerrard has produced his best LFC form in an England shirt?

I'd prefer to wait to see him in an LFC shirt before even thinking of passing judgement on him.

[sfeirinho!!]

I've seen in yesterday's game that Henderson's got all the right ingredients in him to succeed in our team. He was the only guy willing to pass it as soon as he got it while some others like sturridge always tried to dribble.. He reminds me of steven gerrard and i think the two will understand each others and will combine very well with single touch passes..

[doc_antonio]

Yep. Although Lucas was never crap.

i hold my hands up and admit i was calling for him to be sold, thankfully over the last 2 seasons my views have been completely changed.. but im not expecting henderson to hit the ground running (i really hope he does) but more that he settles quickly into the rhythm of our game and finds his feet first before everyone starts slating him.. unlike i did for lucas admittedly..

You know aside from a handful of games... John Barnes never really reproduced his club form for England.  Come to think of it, neither did McManaman, Redknapp or Fowler.  And can you honestly say that Gerrard has produced his best LFC form in an England shirt?

I'd prefer to wait to see him in an LFC shirt before even thinking of passing judgement on him.

good call, but gerrard is the terminator of the footballing world, put him in any team and he'll maul the opposition defense..

I've seen in yesterday's game that Henderson's got all the right ingredients in him to succeed in our team. He was the only guy willing to pass it as soon as he got it while some others like sturridge always tried to dribble.. He reminds me of steven gerrard and i think the two will understand each others and will combine very well with single touch passes..

he's not shy to get the ball and run with it, try the passes and actually read the game, those are great qualities to have in a young player, and great qualities to improve on.. he seems the only one on the england squad that ctually wants to get on the ball and take a few chances...

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Everyone seems desperate to paint an unrealistic picture again after last nights poor game. Everyone was poor again - this is (Especially given the evidence from the previous game) pretty much all down to the manager. One dimensional, unstructured and old-fashioned football doesn't cut it in the modern game. It was workmanlike and constrained. Just like the England players. You cannot make any assumptions or draw any conclusions from players that play in such a poor system.

Save the angst and upset, show a bit of patience and see how he gets on for us. Personally I won't even bother watching any more of the Under 21 games (Which I morally am opposed to anyway). I am twice as upset at Internationals given FIFAs intent to increase the already congested calendar by 5 games. There has to be a breakaway soon I believe it was already a joke. This is going way beyond that.

[duffyg]

He's surrounded by shite.

You can't judge him.

[GBF]

even if Messi plays under Stuart Pearce, he wont play well at all.  Pearce's tactics and way he make his team play football is shocking

[[new username under construction]]

I thought that despitre the shite performance of England and a below par game for himself...he had some nice touches, you can see the lad has vision for a pass (long and short)

[ziggyy]

even if Messi plays under Stuart Pearce, he wont play well at all.  Pearce's tactics and way he make his team play football is shocking

Messi won't even be selected by Pearce... he's too short, holds on the ball too long, won't tackle or accept a 2 footed lunge, etc etc etc...

Seriously, the FA really need to do something about developing the young boys AND girls to actually play football... not all former players are suitable to be managers/coaches. A serious revamp of the youth development programme needs to be done....

[doc_antonio]

Messi won't even be selected by Pearce... he's too short, holds on the ball too long, won't tackle or accept a 2 footed lunge, etc etc etc...

Seriously, the FA really need to do something about developing the young boys AND girls to actually play football... not all former players are suitable to be managers/coaches. A serious revamp of the youth development programme needs to be done....

agreed, not all players would be great managers, just like not all managers will be great players, just because someone like pierce played in the england squad for years does not mean he has what it takes to manage them in a tournament, his tactics are very outdated and predictable, they need someone with that umpf.. someone who isnt afraid to change it up, there are a few players in that u21 team that shouldn't even come close, but at the end of the day there isn't all that many young english players coming through at the minute to fill the team with stars, the only players that stand out for me in the team are, welbeck, henderson, and smalling... jones hasnt overly impressed me in the last 2 matches, but he does work well with smalling.. sturridge has some good games and then some awful games where you wont see him... a bit like pennant..

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Funny seeing the Mancs in all their 'formations' threads have removed Henderson from every one of them. But they aren't bitter.