Author Topic: Those chants  (Read 184461 times)

Online johnathank

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #280 on: October 31, 2022, 05:15:04 pm »
The problem is the 'Always the Victims" chant (which IIRC actually started from Everton fans about 10 years ago via a banner, I could be wrong) is ambiguous enough for people to say "it's about Heysel, it's about Suarez, it's about fans booing the national anthem" etc etc. "The S*n was right" there's obviously no ambiguity, that's purely about Hillsborough and as far as i'm aware that's always just been a United chant and City have now started since.

But every set of fans turn up at Anfield now with 'Always the victims' and will argue that it's not a Hillsborough chant. The S*n was right chant from City fans thus led to the LFC official statement after the game. Always the victims doesn't invoke that response.
Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows “Always the victims” is about Hillsborough. No need to entertain plausible deniability, because these fuckers are getting off on the little thrill of mocking victims and survivors while hiding behind a shred of ambiguity. The club and everyone associated with it needs to react to “Always the victims” the same way as “The S*n was right”, because it’s the same thing.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #281 on: October 31, 2022, 05:20:15 pm »
Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows “Always the victims” is about Hillsborough. No need to entertain plausible deniability, because these fuckers are getting off on the little thrill of mocking victims and survivors while hiding behind a shred of ambiguity. The club and everyone associated with it needs to react to “Always the victims” the same way as “The S*n was right”, because it’s the same thing.
This. Thank you. Very much. 100% right. Even it wasn't "meant to be about" Hillsborough, it's become about Hillsborough even if only by default. And you're right - everyone knows it. Especially the fuckin FA.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #282 on: October 31, 2022, 06:22:49 pm »
This. Thank you. Very much. 100% right. Even it wasn't "meant to be about" Hillsborough, it's become about Hillsborough even if only by default. And you're right - everyone knows it. Especially the fuckin FA.

The FA who completely absolved themselves for the problems caused by their allocation of the specific ends of the ground?

Offline MPowerYNWA

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #283 on: October 31, 2022, 06:31:46 pm »
Even Everton fans sing it - wtf????

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzmrm6

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #284 on: October 31, 2022, 06:34:53 pm »
Even Everton fans sing it - wtf????

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzmrm6

They've been singing it for years. The huge dose of irony is, they act like the biggest gang of crying victims going.
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Offline MPowerYNWA

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #285 on: October 31, 2022, 06:39:39 pm »
They've been singing it for years. The huge dose of irony is, they act like the biggest gang of crying victims going.

I honestly never realised - rivalry asides I thought it was more of a tight knit community in relation to the real issues, what a bunch of complete muppets (those who sing it that is).

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #286 on: October 31, 2022, 07:58:30 pm »
The FA who completely absolved themselves for the problems caused by their allocation of the specific ends of the ground?
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Offline Billy Elliot

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #287 on: October 31, 2022, 08:24:26 pm »
The problem is the 'Always the Victims" chant (which IIRC actually started from Everton fans about 10 years ago via a banner.

If I remember correctly, it was United. It was shortly after Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson published the Spectator article on us Scousers enjoying our victim status. Which makes it even more bizarre that Everton added the United song to their repertoire. You might known already but Johnsons vile publication wasn't limited to football issues but included Jamie Bulger and Ken Bigley as moments we revelled in:

"They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society."

The Mancs loved it and started Always the Victims, and sang about "One Borris Johnson".

The Ev defy logic.

In some ways, nobody has supported us over Hillsborough as much as them. There are many Evertonian's that grasp every wrong about Hillsborough, better than some of our own fans.

Yet they sing that. I blame it on the sheep who've followed them and try too hard to hate us. But I don't understand why they don't get slapped by the good ones, they don't even know the origin of the song. Weirdo's.





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Re: Those chants
« Reply #288 on: October 31, 2022, 08:24:53 pm »
Allocation of ends was SYP, not FA. Also note that Ian Byrne has written to Premier League rather than FA.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #289 on: October 31, 2022, 09:47:30 pm »
Thing is at the end of the day, there is no benefit from a commercial and sporting perspective, let alone from a human element, for the PL to continue to allow these chants to be sung week-in, week-out. Their continued silence on the matter is defeaning.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #290 on: October 31, 2022, 10:57:40 pm »
Yep.  I said that we don't sing about Munich since Hillsborough but it all falls on deaf ears.  The anti scouser agenda is deeply ingrained.  And then the same people moan that we don't sing the national anthem...

I can't tell if they actually believe we sing about Munich or not. Either way, they definitely think it gives them carte blanche to sing about Hillsborough, so they push that narrative as much as possible. It doesn't matter how many times you ask for evidence of Munich songs, the best they'll be able to produce is a ropey video of 3 blokes outside the ground or that SOS video from 13 years ago. The irony is, our fans have to hear Hillsborough songs every single season from United fans and we still don't sing about Munich back.

They're also now using the excuse of the Queen or IRA songs, even though they've been singing about Hillsborough for decades. They'll scrape around for any justification - if they couldn't pretend that we sing about Munich, they'd say we deserve it because we sing 'fuck off Chelsea FC' or some nonsense.

The truth is, if you're having to invent justifications for your behaviour, it's because you're doing something wrong but your brain is trying to trick you into thinking you're the good guy in the situation. It's why they also use dehumanising language when talking about Scousers, as long as your brain can compartmentalise certain human beings as 'not quite human in the same way that you are', then it can justify all sorts of heinous behaviour towards them.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 10:59:13 pm by Koplass »
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #291 on: November 1, 2022, 01:37:48 am »
I can't tell if they actually believe we sing about Munich or not. Either way, they definitely think it gives them carte blanche to sing about Hillsborough, so they push that narrative as much as possible. It doesn't matter how many times you ask for evidence of Munich songs, the best they'll be able to produce is a ropey video of 3 blokes outside the ground or that SOS video from 13 years ago. The irony is, our fans have to hear Hillsborough songs every single season from United fans and we still don't sing about Munich back.

They're also now using the excuse of the Queen or IRA songs, even though they've been singing about Hillsborough for decades. They'll scrape around for any justification - if they couldn't pretend that we sing about Munich, they'd say we deserve it because we sing 'fuck off Chelsea FC' or some nonsense.

The truth is, if you're having to invent justifications for your behaviour, it's because you're doing something wrong but your brain is trying to trick you into thinking you're the good guy in the situation. It's why they also use dehumanising language when talking about Scousers, as long as your brain can compartmentalise certain human beings as 'not quite human in the same way that you are', then it can justify all sorts of heinous behaviour towards them.

There's a lot in what you say there. Dehumanisation is a tactic used throughout the ages. It's used in all sorts of conflicts. It's difficult to hate people you see the humanity in. It's hard to despise those you can understand and have empathy with.

It's far easier to do so once you dehumanise people and groups of people though. Then, you have little or no empathy for them and you can then give yourself permission to treat them horrendously.

With a lot of opposition fans the facts don't matter. Any narrative that feeds their confirmation bias is gleefully embraced, whilst anything that contradicts it is rejected. They want it to be true that we sing about Munich in our thousands, and three clowns singing it in some random pub means we all do it. One utter arse throwing a bottle at a coach means we're all scumbags. Five clowns singing IRA shite towards Union flag wavers means we are all terrorist sympathisers. They want this to be true. They need it to be true. Because it gives them permission to see us all as less than them. It gives their vile hatred permission to show itself. It means they don't have to care or have empathy because they don't see as human enough to warrant it.

Right-wingers use dehumanisation all the time. They do it with immigrants and benefit claimants. They do it to create scapegoats and divert critical attention away from themselves. It was done to this city by Thatcher and her media cohorts. It was done to us all after Hillsborough. Disgustingly, we've been portrayed as less than human for so long now by our own country and its media. It's no wonder so many people now feel they have the right to pile on and mock the deaths of our loved ones. To them, we don't count. In their self-righteous ivory towers they look down from, we are not worthy of their empathy.

So, do they genuinely believe we sing about Munich? No, I don't think they do. But they want it to be true, so they peddle the lie anyway. Truth doesn't actually matter in the dehumanisation game. All you have to do is say it and keep saying it. So long as it's true in their minds, it gives them permission to absolve themselves of their dignity, their empathy, their morals and their human decency. It allows them to hate whilst still feeling superior.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #292 on: November 1, 2022, 06:48:31 am »
City excusing their fans chanting the s** was right your murderers, has taken us to new depths. I honestly never thought I would see the day. I sit by the away and it was nearly all of them.  It has to be stopped…there is a moody atmosphere even in the main stand and there is going to be an incident soon. Another example of the dark shadow that shower of shit have cast across our game and our country. We need a tannoy announcement saying anyone singing it will be evicted and then start pulling them out. 

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #293 on: November 1, 2022, 07:06:36 am »
City excusing their fans chanting the s** was right your murderers, has taken us to new depths. I honestly never thought I would see the day. I sit by the away and it was nearly all of them.  It has to be stopped…there is a moody atmosphere even in the main stand and there is going to be an incident soon. Another example of the dark shadow that shower of shit have cast across our game and our country. We need a tannoy announcement saying anyone singing it will be evicted and then start pulling them out.

Maybe start filming them?

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #294 on: November 1, 2022, 07:21:46 am »
Maybe start filming them?

It shouldn't be too hard for the club to install hi-def video and audio to record any visiting fans singing these vile chants. Then they should up a YouTube page and post the content.

I assume the club can identify people from where they are sitting via banking transactions. They should send that info the the visiting club and say they are banned from Anfield. If someone gives/sells their seat to a 3rd party tough. They are banned. Facial recognition to pick them out in the future. Fck it post on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok. Our club needs to call them out.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #295 on: November 1, 2022, 11:21:40 am »
It shouldn't be too hard for the club to install hi-def video and audio to record any visiting fans singing these vile chants. Then they should up a YouTube page and post the content.

I assume the club can identify people from where they are sitting via banking transactions. They should send that info the the visiting club and say they are banned from Anfield. If someone gives/sells their seat to a 3rd party tough. They are banned. Facial recognition to pick them out in the future. Fck it post on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok. Our club needs to call them out.

So aren't the fans sitting near to the away end listening to their filth not part of 'the club'?

Every fucker and his missus have their phones out recording shit throughout every day of their lives, why is it so hard or whatever other crap reason they might give for them not to get these fuckers on tape.

Flood every media outlet, the FA, the PL, the visiting club, then hit social media with it.

Shame every fucking one of them, every fucking time until people start realising it's not acceptable.

This nicely written fucking letters by MPs, the club, the families method is and has done fuck all to make the fuckers take notice.

I'm sick of us playing the fucking nice guys, towing the fucking party line, show some fucking anger, some spine for a change.

Please don't use physical aggression though as that's just giving them another reason to kick us in the knackers!!

Sorry not ranting at you personally just raging at fuck all being done when thousands have a phone and can do something about it.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #296 on: November 1, 2022, 11:32:29 am »
Maybe start filming them?

We get filmed by the police at some aways as standard. Villa for a start often seem to have police cameras pointed at us for some reason.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #297 on: November 1, 2022, 01:33:14 pm »
Maybe start filming them?
If they aren't already being filmed I'd be amazed. I remember a number of trips to see us at Old Trafford and our end was filmed extensively and overtly.

I've said it before in here that individuals need dragging out, identified, named publicly and shamed. Once people start losing their jobs because their employers won't have death mockers on their staff, attitudes will start to change just as it did with racism. We should police the away end better than it currently is. Overtly film the fuckers and show they can't hide within the anonymity of the crowd and their actions may well have consequences.

People say that you can't wade into a crowd and drag all offenders out. But you don't need to. How many were dragged out for racism? Certainly not hundreds. It was individuals, who were then held to account and were seen to be held account too.

It's like being picked on by a bully and his boys. You can't fight them all, so you twat the big mouth bully himself, then the rest back off. Start picking off these ghouls individually and the rest start to get the message.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #298 on: November 1, 2022, 01:55:18 pm »
So aren't the fans sitting near to the away end listening to their filth not part of 'the club'?

Every fucker and his missus have their phones out recording shit throughout every day of their lives, why is it so hard or whatever other crap reason they might give for them not to get these fuckers on tape.

Flood every media outlet, the FA, the PL, the visiting club, then hit social media with it.

Shame every fucking one of them, every fucking time until people start realising it's not acceptable.

This nicely written fucking letters by MPs, the club, the families method is and has done fuck all to make the fuckers take notice.

I'm sick of us playing the fucking nice guys, towing the fucking party line, show some fucking anger, some spine for a change.

Please don't use physical aggression though as that's just giving them another reason to kick us in the knackers!!

Sorry not ranting at you personally just raging at fuck all being done when thousands have a phone and can do something about it.
I suspect the job the establishment has done on us has had more of an effect than we realise. They've always tried to shut us up, and one tactic they used was to ridicule our justified dissent by suggesting that we enjoy being victims. We have government and media endorsed victim blaming going on on a grand scale. The opposition fan useful idiots just help push that narrative home.

This can have the effect, subconsciously or consciously, were people become shy about complaining because it feels like complaining actually confirms the narrative. Let's not make any mistake here, the job the establishment and its media did on our city and our club after Hillsborough was comprehensive and relentless. Psychology was used against us too, just as it is in any information war. It was designed to first discredit victims, then to mock and ridicule them into silence. In many ways it worked, and we are still seeing its effect today and will do for a long time to come.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #299 on: November 1, 2022, 03:50:32 pm »
It's why they also use dehumanising language when talking about Scousers, as long as your brain can compartmentalise certain human beings as 'not quite human in the same way that you are', then it can justify all sorts of heinous behaviour towards them.

And we've got an ex PM who's largely responsible for that. And some people still can't get their heads round booing the national anthem. Dem Scousers revelling in self pity again, innit?

And the circle goes round and round.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #300 on: November 1, 2022, 04:02:21 pm »
This. Thank you. Very much. 100% right. Even it wasn't "meant to be about" Hillsborough, it's become about Hillsborough even if only by default. And you're right - everyone knows it. Especially the fuckin FA.

100%. On a basic human level if you're doing something that is upsetting someone, you have to be a massive c*nt to justify doing it over and over again with the pathetic excuse that it's being misinterpreted.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #301 on: November 1, 2022, 04:05:54 pm »
People hate they don't understand but people can also hate what they secretly admire but maybe don't have the guts to be.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #302 on: November 1, 2022, 05:38:25 pm »
Going by the trailer just on, it looks like Granada Reports are going to mention the Hillsborough chants in tonight's programme.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #303 on: November 1, 2022, 07:04:09 pm »
100%. On a basic human level if you're doing something that is upsetting someone, you have to be a massive c*nt to justify doing it over and over again with the pathetic excuse that it's being misinterpreted.

Most humans are the same - tribalism.   I’ve been racially abused more times than I care to remember at Anfield over the last 30 years. Supporting one club or another doesn’t make anyone a better human, typically humans are nasty.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #304 on: November 1, 2022, 08:33:10 pm »
Maybe start filming them?

Good idea I will because they deny it.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #305 on: November 2, 2022, 04:43:12 pm »
FA concerned over rise in 'abhorrent chants' about Hillsborough tragedy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63490856
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #306 on: November 2, 2022, 06:02:51 pm »
Just seen on FB that Leeds United have banned the supporter who was posting pictures on social media of himself holding up the scum newspaper at Liverpool Lime Street and referencing that they were playing victims away, plus other Hillsborough references during the day.

Not going to post the pictures that he was putting up, but this is the letter of response from Leeds that has been posted on FB that someone got from their complaint towards him.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #307 on: November 2, 2022, 06:10:18 pm »
FA concerned over rise in 'abhorrent chants' about Hillsborough tragedy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63490856

Sounding tough whilst doing the square root of fuck all about it.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #308 on: November 2, 2022, 06:15:13 pm »
Just seen on FB that Leeds United have banned the supporter who was posting pictures on social media of himself holding up the scum newspaper at Liverpool Lime Street and referencing that they were playing victims away, plus other Hillsborough references during the day.

Not going to post the pictures that he was putting up, but this is the letter of response from Leeds that has been posted on FB that someone got from their complaint towards him.

Good on Leeds.

The crazy thing is that Leeds United played Coventry City in the 1987 FA Cup semi-final. It was the first semi-final at Hillsborough for six years after the 1981 final in which Spurs fans were crushed on the Leppings lane terraces.

Leeds were allocated the Leppings lane and predictably their fans were also crushed with some fans suffering broken limbs. Maybe that simpleton should reflect on that.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #309 on: November 2, 2022, 06:16:10 pm »
Just seen on FB that Leeds United have banned the supporter who was posting pictures on social media of himself holding up the scum newspaper at Liverpool Lime Street and referencing that they were playing victims away, plus other Hillsborough references during the day.

Not going to post the pictures that he was putting up, but this is the letter of response from Leeds that has been posted on FB that someone got from their complaint towards him.

Fair play to them.  Nice to see a team actually do something about it

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #310 on: November 2, 2022, 06:28:54 pm »
Well done Leeds United.

As Al has said, it was almost them too. They had a very close shave in the Leppings Lane themselves.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #311 on: November 2, 2022, 06:31:19 pm »
The Leeds leads the way eh? Good on them. Now let's see some other clubs clean up their own vile fans.

Does feel like there's finally some momentum building behind this - and not before time.

I had a Man Utd fan apologising to me today for their fans' vile murderers chanting, though I still had to educate him as to why 'sign on' and 'never get a job' are also gobshite things to sing. He seemed to accept it and said he genuinely hadn't thought about it that way. Which just goes to show how unthinking the mob is.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #312 on: November 2, 2022, 06:32:24 pm »
Just seen on FB that Leeds United have banned the supporter who was posting pictures on social media of himself holding up the scum newspaper at Liverpool Lime Street and referencing that they were playing victims away, plus other Hillsborough references during the day.

Not going to post the pictures that he was putting up, but this is the letter of response from Leeds that has been posted on FB that someone got from their complaint towards him.

this is why we need licences to breed

good on leeds - they can't be held responsible for twats like this - but they have done - so great stuff
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #313 on: November 2, 2022, 06:33:02 pm »
Fair play to them.  Nice to see a team actually do something about it
This is what it needs. Individuals picked out, highlighted, named, shamed and banned. Let their families, work colleagues, friends etc know exactly what they are.

Those who say nothing can be done are wrong. Whole away ends don't need arresting. Just relentlessly outing individuals like this sends a very clear message.

It's not hard to do these days either. Everyone has a camera in their pocket. Also, the morons themselves often film their scumbaggery and post it publicly.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #314 on: November 2, 2022, 06:35:49 pm »
They all claim it's not about Hillsborough. It's about Heysel, sticking up for Suarez and various other stuff. But we all know it is. Well, it was originally a manc chant about Hillsborough anyway. Born off the back of that article in the Spectator by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson of all people.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2022, 07:08:12 pm by Solomon Grundy »

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #315 on: November 2, 2022, 06:39:33 pm »
They all claim it's not about Hillsborough. It's about Heysel, sticking up for Suarez and various other stuff. But we all know it is. Well, it was originally a chant manc chant about Hillsborough anyway. Born off the back of that article in the Spectator by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson of all people.
No one should be compounding the grief of those who lost loved ones at Heysel by using their deaths to score petty points in a football rivalry either. It's absolutely stomach churning hearing brainless gobshites hijacking other people's grief and using it for their own selfish gratification. Horrible, despicable ghouls, the lot of them.

Let's get this straight. If you sing about Munich, Heysel, Bradford, Ibrox, Hillsborough, the Leeds lads killed in Turkey and any other disaster, you are a spineless, moronic, pea-brained arsehole.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2022, 06:41:44 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #316 on: November 2, 2022, 06:45:06 pm »
They all claim it's not about Hillsborough. It's about Heysel, sticking up for Suarez and various other stuff. But we all know it is. Well, it was originally a chant manc chant about Hillsborough anyway. Born off the back of that article in the Spectator by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson of all people.

That would be the Manchester United who had a near miss during the 1957 semi final at Hillsborough and played Forest in the 1989 6th round. If they drawn Forest a round later their fans would have been on the Leppings lane terraces in 1989.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #317 on: November 2, 2022, 06:45:08 pm »
Guardian has more detail on the FA story, including praise for survivors' groups.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/02/fa-condemn-offensive-chants-hillsborough-liverpool-ian-byrne
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #318 on: November 2, 2022, 06:49:24 pm »
It looks like the FA can condemn, but at the same time say "We'd love to do something about it, but our rules only cover discriminatory chants".

Change your rules then and we can see how seriously you take it.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #319 on: November 2, 2022, 06:52:19 pm »
They all claim it's not about Hillsborough. It's about Heysel, sticking up for Suarez and various other stuff. But we all know it is. Well, it was originally a chant manc chant about Hillsborough anyway. Born off the back of that article in the Spectator by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson of all people.

And to expand the point about Johnson see the exemplary piece by Phil Scranton;

https://irr.org.uk/article/boris-johnson-liverpool-lies-and-bigotry/