Author Topic: Javier Mascherano  (Read 401634 times)

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4400 on: February 17, 2014, 06:11:37 pm »
You’re quite right, never mind £5m-£7M a nice word in an interview is all it takes for our fans……………

An interview he doesn't have to mention Liverpool in

Offline Red Crown

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4401 on: February 17, 2014, 06:12:34 pm »
On that we agree, would probably have gone straight onto those interest payments.

The principle remains though…….

Not really; it's the clubs prerogative to look out for the club's best interest.  If it's run by thieves and clowns we're gonna get fleeced and end up with pie in our face.

The player's prerogative is to give 100% when wearing the shirt.  Mascherano did that that.  Time and time and time again.  It was freaky how committed he was.

If the club was being run by anyone half competent we could have gotten his true valuation, it wasn't and we didn't.

End of.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4402 on: February 17, 2014, 06:14:10 pm »
True - i should have said parasites "owning the club"

There are some screwed up MD's in the world, but not to many would turn down millions for their business to make a point.  It's also not like he would have been able to do it without anyone finding out.

Well Purslow did exactly that - maybe not intentionally - but like I said before, by ruling out Inter of the race for the player it left Barca in pole position and able to negotiate a lower fee by being the only club left in for him. Again, like I said before - that's not the player's fault - that's Purlsow's.
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Offline jamie_c

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4403 on: February 17, 2014, 06:29:16 pm »
Well Purslow did exactly that - maybe not intentionally - but like I said before, by ruling out Inter of the race for the player it left Barca in pole position and able to negotiate a lower fee by being the only club left in for him. Again, like I said before - that's not the player's fault - that's Purlsow's.


We're clearly not going to agree, I gave examples of when similar things were said and players still ended up moving.




Offline Red Crown

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4404 on: February 17, 2014, 06:38:02 pm »
We're clearly not going to agree, I gave examples of when similar things were said and players still ended up moving.

You do realise that you are being the advocate of the business acumen of the man who referred to himself as the 'Fernando Torres' of finance, tried to get rid of Lucas for £4 million (IIRC), couldn't even manage to finalise a deal with Insua and Fiorentina (then bought Paul Konchesky in as an 'upgrade'), paid £10+ million to sack Rafa and buy out Hodgson from Fulham ... need I go on?

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4405 on: February 17, 2014, 06:45:17 pm »
@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
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Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4406 on: February 17, 2014, 07:23:30 pm »
You do realise that you are being the advocate of the business acumen of the man who referred to himself as the 'Fernando Torres' of finance, tried to get rid of Lucas for £4 million (IIRC), couldn't even manage to finalise a deal with Insua and Fiorentina (then bought Paul Konchesky in as an 'upgrade'), paid £10+ million to sack Rafa and buy out Hodgson from Fulham ... need I go on?

I don't see him being the advocate for anybody. He's just pointing out Mascherano fucked us over.

Nobody knows what went on behind the scenes. What we do know is that we sold a 25 mil asset for 18. You want us to believe that this is because the people representing the club in these matters were idiots. He thinks it's because Mascherano held a gun to our head. Most likely it was a bit of both but ultimately I don't see any scenario here where the player didn't agitate for a move.
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Offline Red Crown

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4407 on: February 17, 2014, 07:29:23 pm »
I don't see him being the advocate for anybody.

Then learn to read.

He's just pointing out Mascherano fucked us over.

The onus isn't on the player to get the possible deal for the selling club, it's on the club.  Players come and go and it's as predictable as the sun rising in the East and setting in the West.  If the club doesn't have competent people in charge they're gonna get fleeced by other clubs.

Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4408 on: February 17, 2014, 07:50:47 pm »
Then learn to read.

The onus isn't on the player to get the possible deal for the selling club, it's on the club.  Players come and go and it's as predictable as the sun rising in the East and setting in the West.  If the club doesn't have competent people in charge they're gonna get fleeced by other clubs.

Perhaps you might be so good as to point out where Jamie is advocating for Purslow. I won't hold my breath.

The onus is on the player to act with honour towards the club that employs him. That's if the respect of the fans and the club means anything to him. If it doesn't that's a different story - he can behave however he likes.
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Offline Sat1

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4409 on: February 17, 2014, 07:57:09 pm »
Criminal him and Alonso never had another season together.

Offline Red Crown

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4410 on: February 17, 2014, 08:42:04 pm »
Perhaps you might be so good as to point out where Jamie is advocating for Purslow. I won't hold my breath.

What apart from dismissing it as a very real possibility that Purslow flat out shut the door on Inter?

The onus is on the player to act with honour towards the club that employs him. That's if the respect of the fans and the club means anything to him. If it doesn't that's a different story - he can behave however he likes.

He did.  Every time he wore the shirt.  Every single time.  That's his responsibility and he fulfilled it.  In spades.  He even asked to leave the year before but was convinced to stay because we were losing Alonso.  If that's not 'acting with honour towards the club that employs him' I don't know what is.

You seem to believe he 'owed' us more.  Bullshit.  He put in marvellous, magnificent performances, stayed on an extra year out of respect of our situation but then wanted to move on to other challenges.  The club had one fucking year to sort the deal out, it failed, shot itself in the foot and got fleeced.  This is not the responsibility of the player.

Offline Ginamos

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4411 on: February 17, 2014, 08:52:57 pm »
Who gives a fuck? Three and a half years ago and fuck all relevancy to any of the people at the club now. "Purslow and Hodgson Were c*nts" the headline might have been. Nothing we didn't know.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4412 on: February 17, 2014, 09:00:03 pm »
How's the missus Masch? Is Catalonia closer to Argentina than Liverpool?
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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4414 on: February 17, 2014, 09:04:40 pm »
You seem to believe he 'owed' us more.  Bullshit.  He put in marvellous, magnificent performances, stayed on an extra year out of respect of our situation but then wanted to move on to other challenges.  The club had one fucking year to sort the deal out, it failed, shot itself in the foot and got fleeced.  This is not the responsibility of the player.
[/quote]

A big part of my issue with this is consistency, I take your point but were you one of the people around me at Stamford bridge screaming abuse at Torres when he warmed up ?

If we play Barcelona Mascherano would get applauded, to me that's wrong

I think it matters how a player leaves a club, and geting the fair amount is as much down to the player as the club.  As has been pointed out the only thing we know is that we got fucked in this transfer and I think it's more likely to because of the players actions than anything else.

None of my posts were in support of Purslow.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4415 on: February 17, 2014, 09:10:25 pm »
You seem to believe he 'owed' us more.  Bullshit.  He put in marvellous, magnificent performances, stayed on an extra year out of respect of our situation but then wanted to move on to other challenges.  The club had one fucking year to sort the deal out, it failed, shot itself in the foot and got fleeced.  This is not the responsibility of the player.


A big part of my issue with this is consistency, I take your point but were you one of the people around me at Stamford bridge screaming abuse at Torres when he warmed up ?

If we play Barcelona Mascherano would get applauded, to me that's wrong

Your comparing a player that went to Barcelona to one that stayed in England? I don't hate Torres, I hate his choice of club.

Offline Red Crown

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4416 on: February 17, 2014, 09:16:29 pm »
A big part of my issue with this is consistency, I take your point but were you one of the people around me at Stamford bridge screaming abuse at Torres when he warmed up ?

No because A) he went to a local rival and B) he's a joke.  ;)

If we play Barcelona Mascherano would get applauded, to me that's wrong

He should get applauded, he's ace.

I think it matters how a player leaves a club, and geting the fair amount is as much down to the player as the club.  As has been pointed out the only thing we know is that we got fucked in this transfer and I think it's more likely to because of the players actions than anything else.

As I have repeated, again and again and again; it's not his business to get the best price from the other club.  That is *our* responsibility.  He gave us an extra year, out of respect for Rafa and that we were losing Alonso, he put another year of effort in and didn't lie or mislead the club at all (unlike Mr I'm signing another contract Owen).  Every man and his dog knew that he wanted to move, and that he would move.

None of my posts were in support of Purslow.

I should be clear; I'm not saying you 'support' Purslow (which would be a vile accusation to throw to another Red), I'm saying you're 'advocating the business acumen of the man who referred to himself as the 'Fernando Torres' of finance ' and was quite clearly ... not ... or was if we're talking about Torres of Liverpool or Torres of Chelsea.

Put it another way; there is absolutely nothing, and I want to be clear here nothing in the recorded history of the Christian Purslow football business playbook that would indicate, even for one brief moment that he wasn't such a big a bell as to actually close the door on Inter's interest to Mascherano.  The man was a fuck up from top to bottom.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4417 on: February 17, 2014, 09:37:16 pm »
What apart from dismissing it as a very real possibility that Purslow flat out shut the door on Inter?



That's not advocating Purslow. It's not been prepared to believe he is THAT fucking stupid. He may be right, he may be wrong. Your argument is like accusing somebody who doesn't think that Howard Webb is bent of giving him a character reference
He did.  Every time he wore the shirt.  Every single time.  That's his responsibility and he fulfilled it.  In spades.  He even asked to leave the year before but was convinced to stay because we were losing Alonso.  If that's not 'acting with honour towards the club that employs him' I don't know what is.

You seem to believe he 'owed' us more.  Bullshit.  He put in marvellous, magnificent performances, stayed on an extra year out of respect of our situation but then wanted to move on to other challenges.  The club had one fucking year to sort the deal out, it failed, shot itself in the foot and got fleeced.  This is not the responsibility of the player.

I believe players, in general, owe their club more if they want to be able to turn up three and a half years later and talk about their respect for that club.

Even if all you say above in the first paragraph is true, it may be true or it may be spin from mascheranos camp, he agitated for a move to a club that was offering considerably less than he was worth. I am sure that left a little extra for wages but hey ho he gave his all on the pitch like all professionals should so it's all ok.
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Offline astowell1

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4418 on: February 17, 2014, 09:43:25 pm »
Purslow/Hodgson with the lies and twisting of the truth.  Anyone shocked?

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Offline MagicB8all

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4420 on: February 17, 2014, 10:15:56 pm »
White liquid in a bottle?
I see what you did there  ;)
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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4421 on: February 17, 2014, 10:21:18 pm »
“I did not wake up one day and refuse to play. In the game before City we played against Arsenal and I gave everything because I was wearing the Liverpool shirt. Why would I do that and risk getting injured when I knew that Barcelona were close to signing me and then refuse to play in another game? That doesn’t make any sense."
I tell you what he fucking did as well in that game, I remember being impressed at how he remained self motivated and he threw himself in front of everything on that sunny August afternoon.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4422 on: February 17, 2014, 10:22:43 pm »
I don't see him being the advocate for anybody. He's just pointing out Mascherano fucked us over.

Nobody knows what went on behind the scenes. What we do know is that we sold a 25 mil asset for 18. You want us to believe that this is because the people representing the club in these matters were idiots.

The people representing us in those matters paid £4 million plus two very promising kids for Paul Konchesky and £4 million for Christian Poulsen. Plus signed Joe Cole for four years on £120,000 a week.

Idiots is polite.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4423 on: February 17, 2014, 10:28:50 pm »
The people representing us in those matters paid £4 million plus two very promising kids for Paul Konchesky and £4 million for Christian Poulsen. Plus signed Joe Cole for four years on £120,000 a week.

Idiots is polite.

Quote the whole post ffs.  :)
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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4424 on: February 17, 2014, 10:30:20 pm »
I dont really give a fuck what anyone says.

I love the little Argie loon.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4425 on: February 17, 2014, 10:31:42 pm »
So was Torres, yet he gets far more hatred than Masch.

Yes because Chelsea and Barcelona are the same in our fans' eyes.  ::) Mascherano ALWAYS gave his all for the club, Torres sulked for 18 months and played within himself so he wouldn't get injured for Spain. Fuck him.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4426 on: February 17, 2014, 10:39:03 pm »
Quote the whole post ffs.  :)

Oh no, I appreciate that you agree they were idiots.

The fact is, we had Hodgson, Purslow and the yanks in charge. And I know what I saw from Javier Mascherano every single time he pulled on the shirt. I know from the three years he spent here that he loves playing football and loved playing for our club. At the time I didn't believe he'd refused because frankly I didn't trust a word that came out of Woys mouth because we all know he was hired as a yes man.

But anyway, he wanted to leave and we accepted he wanted to leave. I don't buy the 'he should have made sure we got the best deal' nonsense. That's not his responsibility. He wanted to join Barca, I mean who the fuck wouldn't at the time? That Barca knew that and offered less than he was maybe worth is annoying, but hardly his fault. It's his agents job to get him the move he wants, it's our responsibility to get what he's worth. The fact he got his move and we didn't get what he was worth tells me one was better at their job than the other, but again we're talking about people who paid £4 million plus two good kids for Paul Konchesky so you can draw your own conclusions.

If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4427 on: February 17, 2014, 10:45:33 pm »
I think Mascherano was a fantastic player for us. He wanted to leave a year after we bought him but hung around for another year which was fair in my view having been rescued from the bench at West Ham or Serie B with Juventus. His departure allowed Lucas to really develop as a player prior to his injury in November 2011. We were sinking without trace with Roy Hodgson as manager and G & H as owners so given the choice between that and Barcelona you can't really blame him for leaving.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4428 on: February 17, 2014, 10:48:30 pm »
Purslow was the David Ngog of finance. Limited skill and a massive cock.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4429 on: February 17, 2014, 10:53:24 pm »
White liquid in a bottle?
Well played
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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4430 on: February 17, 2014, 10:56:14 pm »
How the Fuck we lost money on Masch was beyond on me an all.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4431 on: February 17, 2014, 10:58:47 pm »
Yes because Chelsea and Barcelona are the same in our fans' eyes.  ::) Mascherano ALWAYS gave his all for the club, Torres sulked for 18 months and played within himself so he wouldn't get injured for Spain. Fuck him.
So let's complain about what a prick Sturridge is for going to one of his rivals. Of course not.
We got excellent money for Torres, and he never refused to play for the club. Torres was scoring right up to the end, despite the drop in quality of the team. Didn't Torres also change his mind but Dalglish was having none of it?

I'm not a tribal football supporter. The only care I have are for those at Liverpool Football Club. I don't spend my time hating Mourinho, hating Torres, hating Michael Owen, hating Hodgson, so on and so forth. Torres left, he wanted to leave and we accepted a very very good amount of cash for him.

Alonso wanted to leave. Masch wanted out. Even our Liverpool born captain wanted out. Its football. It happens.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 11:00:37 pm by Anywhichwayucan »

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4432 on: February 17, 2014, 11:04:29 pm »
Masch is boss. He was the one I hated seeing leave.

I'd never blame him for wanting out.

Rafa gone/RoyPurslow running the show. Dickhead owners.
Barcelona.

Always only going to be one outcome and fair play to him.

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4433 on: February 17, 2014, 11:08:05 pm »
Love Masch, always did. He was ridiculously good for us. Much as I love Lucas, can't help but feel if we still had Masch we'd be so much better off
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4434 on: February 17, 2014, 11:11:19 pm »
Oh no, I appreciate that you agree they were idiots.

The fact is, we had Hodgson, Purslow and the yanks in charge. And I know what I saw from Javier Mascherano every single time he pulled on the shirt. I know from the three years he spent here that he loves playing football and loved playing for our club. At the time I didn't believe he'd refused because frankly I didn't trust a word that came out of Woys mouth because we all know he was hired as a yes man.

But anyway, he wanted to leave and we accepted he wanted to leave. I don't buy the 'he should have made sure we got the best deal' nonsense. That's not his responsibility. He wanted to join Barca, I mean who the fuck wouldn't at the time? That Barca knew that and offered less than he was maybe worth is annoying, but hardly his fault. It's his agents job to get him the move he wants, it's our responsibility to get what he's worth. The fact he got his move and we didn't get what he was worth tells me one was better at their job than the other, but again we're talking about people who paid £4 million plus two good kids for Paul Konchesky so you can draw your own conclusions.

I don't think anybody is saying that he should have made sure that we got the best deal.

What is being said is that, despite what assurances may have been made the previous year, it is unreasonable to expect a club to sell you for less then you are worth. Considerably less btw. I don't think anybody within the club ever alledged that Javier refused to play. They suggested he was agitating for a move, throwing a strop and making noises about been treated badly, broken promises etc, because we, at that stage, wouldn't sell him on the cheap. Thats not respectful, in fact it was somewhat immature to try and hold someone to a promise that was made in respect of one set of circumstances when we were now dealing with a completely different set.

What we do know is that low balling and asking the player to push for a move was a classic Barca tactic at the time and one that a lot of clubs now appear to have adopted. We also know that the people at our end hadn't got a clue what they were doing. IMO the later does not excuse Mascherano for his part in the former.



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Offline buzzing

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4435 on: February 17, 2014, 11:17:58 pm »
So was Torres, yet he gets far more hatred than Masch.

Torres was pants when he left us...had a decent game v chelsea which prob helped up his fee...in fact in hindsight, if we got less we probably wouldn't have been able to to afford Carroll and things may have worked out better than they did ;D
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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4436 on: February 17, 2014, 11:21:12 pm »
How did he agitate for a move?  ???

He wanted to go the previous season, stayed and then we sacked Rafa and hired Hodgson. As far as I remember he asked to leave and wanted to go to Barca. He didn't refuse to play, so I don't know how he agitated for a move besides saying I'd like to go to Barca.

People believe what they want to believe. Masch forced above to a club he wanted to go to, and we forced Torres to move to a club he didn't really want to join. End of the day, the club made the deal so the buck ends there. As this summer proves, if a club wants to keep a player because their requested price isn't met they can do.

What the club was doing at the time knocks any speculation about Masch into a cocked hat because we KNOW how dodgy they were, not just guessing.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4437 on: February 17, 2014, 11:24:55 pm »
The fact anyone on here feels the need to have a pop at Mascherano (or Alonso or Rafa for that matter) is depressing.

They're all part of the most wonderful few years this club had in two decades, which were ruined by the worst we had in the same period.

We were fucking being ripped apart by the Yanks when they all left, and let's not pretend the club were sad to see high value players go at the time.

Offline The Playmaker

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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4438 on: February 17, 2014, 11:26:45 pm »
Masch is boss. He was the one I hated seeing leave.

I'd never blame him for wanting out.

Rafa gone/RoyPurslow running the show. Dickhead owners.
Barcelona.

Always only going to be one outcome and fair play to him.
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Re: Javier Mascherano "I did not refuse to play against City"
« Reply #4439 on: February 17, 2014, 11:30:42 pm »
Loved it when he dedicated his European Cup win against the Mancs to us :D
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