Topic: England International Dominic Solanke

[latortuga]

The only quality people seem to be able to point to on this kid is work rate.  Is that enough at the highest level of football, especially when you're in the side to score goals?  There must be a balance between how much energy you exert during a match so as to maintain a level of composure and reduce fatigue in critical goal scoring moments.  Anyone can just run around the field chasing lost causes, but if your scoring rate drops off how much of that is related to fatigue overexertion? 

[Nessy76]

The only quality people seem to be able to point to on this kid is work rate. 

Far from it. Read back a few pages.

[88_RED]

I think if he started playing like Dzeko did a few years ago and became a professional substitute, won't be an issue. I think he should be at that stage of his career that he's got to think about how to prolong it for as much as he can. It'll either be here or somewhere else, but his days of starting I think are long gone.

Dzeko has started for Roma more often than not.. You are talking about his City days when he couldn't get into the starting eleven.. I don't think it had anything to do with fitness or an inability to play 90 minutes or remain injury free..

[FlashGordon]

The only quality people seem to be able to point to on this kid is work rate.  Is that enough at the highest level of football, especially when you're in the side to score goals?  There must be a balance between how much energy you exert during a match so as to maintain a level of composure and reduce fatigue in critical goal scoring moments.  Anyone can just run around the field chasing lost causes, but if your scoring rate drops off how much of that is related to fatigue overexertion?

Did you see that absolutely filthy ball he played to Moreno last night. You can't do that if all your good at is running around the place.

[BrandoLFC]

He was playing on the left wing yesterday which is in no way where he should be playing.  He needs to be by the box getting onto headers and creating shots, instead he spent the majority of his 45 minutes working on overlaps.

[Fordy]

He was playing on the left wing yesterday which is in no way where he should be playing.  He needs to be by the box getting onto headers and creating shots, instead he spent the majority of his 45 minutes working on overlaps.

He got on a few headers yesterday and ... missed the target.

Needs to go out on loan ASAP.

[So… Howard Philips]

He was playing on the left wing yesterday which is in no way where he should be playing.  He needs to be by the box getting onto headers and creating shots, instead he spent the majority of his 45 minutes working on overlaps.

I would assume that's where he was told to play.

[PoetryInMotion]

He got on a few headers yesterday and ... missed the target.

Needs to go out on loan ASAP.

Hyperbole. Always in high doses eh?

He missed one header.

[PoetryInMotion]

He was unlucky not to score a few times last season. Hitting the bar against Burnley and goal wrongly disallowed against West Brom. Yesterday, he was played out wide, and it's friendly to get everyone's fitness up. Not to judge players, especially those playing out of position.

For me, he's better than Origi and Ings. With Sturridge's levels of stamina and availability, he's likely to be 2nd choice again. Brewster's only going to be back by Dec, so it's a good chance to stake his claim.

[catinthebag]

He got on a few headers yesterday and ... missed the target.

Needs to go out on loan ASAP.

He missed one header.

Is that better? ... or worse? 

[latortuga]

Far from it. Read back a few pages.

You'd have to agree though that quality is demonstrated.  Where has he consistently demonstrated any of this?  Little to no chance that he makes it for me.

[latortuga]

Did you see that absolutely filthy ball he played to Moreno last night. You can't do that if all your good at is running around the place.

He won't be measured on his ability to pull off hollywood style passes like that, albeit a good one.  It will entertain the fans, but he needs consistent 60 min performances at the moment that demonstrate the qualities needed to succeed at this level.  He just isn't doing that unfortunately and at times even looks like he panics in key moments.  It's not a good sign and often an indication of your level of football.

[latortuga]

He was unlucky not to score a few times last season. Hitting the bar against Burnley and goal wrongly disallowed against West Brom. Yesterday, he was played out wide, and it's friendly to get everyone's fitness up. Not to judge players, especially those playing out of position.

For me, he's better than Origi and Ings. With Sturridge's levels of stamina and availability, he's likely to be 2nd choice again. Brewster's only going to be back by Dec, so it's a good chance to stake his claim.

Maybe unlucky or maybe lacking composure.  If the same thing keeps happening, even in easy preseason friendlies then I'm not so sure it continues to be unlucky.  Regular team players would see pre-season games as a chance to gain fitness, but for youngsters it's their chance to impress against lower opposition.  He hasn't really done this for me.

[JackWard33]

He won't be measured on his ability to pull off hollywood style passes like that, albeit a good one.  It will entertain the fans, but he needs consistent 60 min performances at the moment that demonstrate the qualities needed to succeed at this level.  He just isn't doing that unfortunately and at times even looks like he panics in key moments.  It's not a good sign and often an indication of your level of football.

In his last competitive game he was the best attacker on the pitch ... but you carry on

[killer-heels]

Against Stoke last winter I thought he played very well. I dont know how many appearances he made after that game but it cant have been many. His all round game fell away after that before his good game against Brighton.

[RyanBabel19]

I'm not worried about Solanke

Has everything in his locker to make it here, he's young and learning. People underestimate how hard it is to lead the line in our side. Just needs to have a bit more confidence in himself, the lad can fucking strike a ball as he showed with his first goal for us, wouldn't mind seeing him hit them from distance a bit more often

[dirks digglers]

I'm not worried about Solanke

Has everything in his locker to make it here, he's young and learning. People underestimate how hard it is to lead the line in our side. Just needs to have a bit more confidence in himself, the lad can fucking strike a ball as he showed with his first goal for us, wouldn't mind seeing him hit them from distance a bit more often

Agreed. It's easy to forget that he's only 20. Of course it could go either way for him but clearly his attitude is spot on and he has some great natural attributes. He has perhaps snatched at a couple of chances in the past, understandably, but I think a couple of goals and he can relax a bit and we might see him really flourish. Hope so anyway.

[RyanBabel19]

Agreed. It's easy to forget that he's only 20. Of course it could go either way for him but clearly his attitude is spot on and he has some great natural attributes. He has perhaps snatched at a couple of chances in the past, understandably, but I think a couple of goals and he can relax a bit and we might see him really flourish. Hope so anyway.

He just needs to keep doing what he's doing and it will come. I think its easy as a young player to get anxious when things aren't flying in and start trying to change your game or letting yourself mess up where you usually wouldn't.

That Brighton goal was one of the moments of the season for me, I see so much potential in Solanke and it was great to see him receive that ball with only one thought in his mind and just rifle it into the net, you could almost see the relief in him as he wheeled away to celebrate.

Once he realises how good he is and adjusts to leading the line he'll be sublime, one thing i think some haven't really picked up on is his ability to drop deep and get in on the one touch link up play that releases Salah and Mane into the space in behind, i've seen some lovely touches from the lad to take his marker and sometimes another player out of the game and launch a counter.

[dirks digglers]

Yep, that Brighton goal was a great moment. Always made up for any of the young players coming through when they get that first league goal.

I wonder if perhaps because he is such an all rounder it might take longer for him to fully realise his potential in terms of making that 'obvious' impact? The general expectation is that if this kid is leading the line he needs to score goals and that's how he'll be judged - on a superficial level. However, if we look at Firmino's development over a longer period of time (up to and including his time with us) he has evolved over a long period to now be somewhere near to his maximum output for a player who is not playing a traditional no.9 role. I'd imagine there's a lot to take on board as a young player trying to play in this system and I feel like Klopp is pretty chilled about Solanke's progress at this point.

[FlashGordon]

He won't be measured on his ability to pull off hollywood style passes like that, albeit a good one.  It will entertain the fans, but he needs consistent 60 min performances at the moment that demonstrate the qualities needed to succeed at this level.  He just isn't doing that unfortunately and at times even looks like he panics in key moments.  It's not a good sign and often an indication of your level of football.

Disagree entirely with every post you have made on this topic. He is clearly a talent and just needs time to mature a bit. Delighted to have him at the club and Klopp clearly rates him so he’ll be here for the long term.

[Nessy76]

You'd have to agree though that quality is demonstrated.  Where has he consistently demonstrated any of this?  Little to no chance that he makes it for me.

As I said, read back a few pages and there is some really good analysis of exactly what he does, and why it looks like you are probably wrong in writing off a talent that Klopp, among others, sees great potential in.

If that's too much effort, then I cba talking to you.

[Magix]

Solanke is probably finding the transition from youth football a little steep at the moment, but you can see what he's trying to pull off, just that it isn't quite coming off most of the time. Stylistically he's quite similar to Firminio (at least to me), making similar movements, decisions. For that reason I don't see Klopp entertaining a loan move for him; better to mould him and let the likes of Firminio and (hopefully a fit) Sturridge mentor him as well and give him fairly substantial minutes on the pitch with the other first teamers.

[JackWard33]

Agreed. It's easy to forget that he's only 20. Of course it could go either way for him but clearly his attitude is spot on and he has some great natural attributes. He has perhaps snatched at a couple of chances in the past, understandably, but I think a couple of goals and he can relax a bit and we might see him really flourish. Hope so anyway.

the other thing people do is forget how young 20 is for a top level player because they remember the superstars who come through as 19 year olds.
the reason stats followers are encouraged by him is that he's shown the one critical ability that strikers need which is to get shots off from dangerous locations - its rare for a 20 year old to do it at the top level and so far he has
when you combine this with his athleticism and running power there's every reason to think he could make it as a top level forward.
there's absolutely no guarantee and we're talking about a small sample size last year but anyone that thinks they can write him off as a top level player right now is demonstrably wrong.

[PhaseOfPlay]

the other thing people do is forget how young 20 is for a top level player because they remember the superstars who come through as 19 year olds.
the reason stats followers are encouraged by him is that he's shown the one critical ability that strikers need which is to get shots off from dangerous locations - its rare for a 20 year old to do it at the top level and so far he has
when you combine this with his athleticism and running power there's every reason to think he could make it as a top level forward.
there's absolutely no guarantee and we're talking about a small sample size last year but anyone that thinks they can write him off as a top level player right now is demonstrably wrong.

He has good underlying numbers for sure.

But at some point, he has to convert those numbers to goals.

The question is how long do we wait for that to happen?

[JackWard33]

He has good underlying numbers for sure.

But at some point, he has to convert those numbers to goals.

The question is how long do we wait for that to happen?

Its literally impossible for him to keep those underlying numbers and not score goals that's the point
One of two things happen - he either starts scoring or the numbers decline

Coming to a conclusion on him now is the equivalent of panning for gold... seeing some shiny gold-y shimmering stuff at the bottom of the river but moving on because you don't have a gold bar in your hand

[PhaseOfPlay]

Its literally impossible for him to keep those underlying numbers and not score goals that's the point
One of two things happen - he either starts scoring or the numbers decline

Coming to a conclusion on him now is the equivalent of panning for gold... seeing some shiny gold-y shimmering stuff at the bottom of the river but moving on because you don't have a gold bar in your hand

Well, it's quite possible to have those numbers and not score

Balotelli had 19 shots on target and only scored 1 goal in the league, in 2014-15

So it can be done

[Kopenhagen]

Balotelli had 19 shots on target and only scored 1 goal in the league, in 2014-15

Halcyon days.

[JackWard33]

Well, it's quite possible to have those numbers and not score

Balotelli had 19 shots on target and only scored 1 goal in the league, in 2014-15

So it can be done

Sure anything can be done... especially where super Mario is concerned
But exceptionalism isn't an argument ... and Balotelli's numbers tend to just show how worthless 30 yard shots are.....

I know you don't fancy Solanke as a player which is fair enough.

The point about him is that he's done what few young strikers in this league do and what has historically been predictive of success
There are 2 possibilities 1) his underlying numbers so far are a freak of circumstance (sub effects inflating them, luck in chances coming to him etc) which will disappear over the medium term or 2) he's been unlucky with his finishing and he'll score goals

A super high xG and a super low goal return are almost certain not to both exist in the medium term

But you asked how long we have to wait to find out which and the answer is longer than the 550 minutes he's played so far

[PhaseOfPlay]

Sure anything can be done... especially where super Mario is concerned
But exceptionalism isn't an argument ... and Balotelli's numbers tend to just show how worthless 30 yard shots are.....

Well he had 6 shots in the 6 yard box, and 19 in the penalty area. But still, 19 shots on target should lead to more than 1 goal.

I know you don't fancy Solanke as a player which is fair enough.

I never said I didn't fancy him as a player, I said I don't see it with him, in terms of what he does on the pitch. I think he's a reactive more than a proactive player. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good player. It means I'm not sure he will ultimately fit into Klopp's way of playing. But I can also be wrong

The point about him is that he's done what few young strikers in this league do and what has historically been predictive of success
There are 2 possibilities 1) his underlying numbers so far are a freak of circumstance (sub effects inflating them, luck in chances coming to him etc) which will disappear over the medium term or 2) he's been unlucky with his finishing and he'll score goals

A super high xG and a super low goal return are almost certain not to both exist in the medium term

But you asked how long we have to wait to find out which and the answer is longer than the 550 minutes he's played so far

True on the minutes.

But he's 20. At 18 Fowler was putting 5 goals past Fulham. At 19 Michael Owen was turning the Argentine defence inside-out. Some goalscorers hit the ground running early. Some bloom late (Vardy). I just wonder how many seasons should we wait on Solanke, if he can't convert those numbers to goals. Not us as supporters, but the club. Every new attacking purchase pushes him further down the pecking order, unless he turns shots into goals, which would guarantee him a start for sure.

[Nessy76]

Well he had 6 shots in the 6 yard box, and 19 in the penalty area. But still, 19 shots on target should lead to more than 1 goal.

I never said I didn't fancy him as a player, I said I don't see it with him, in terms of what he does on the pitch. I think he's a reactive more than a proactive player. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good player. It means I'm not sure he will ultimately fit into Klopp's way of playing. But I can also be wrong


True on the minutes.

But he's 20. At 18 Fowler was putting 5 goals past Fulham. At 19 Michael Owen was turning the Argentine defence inside-out. Some goalscorers hit the ground running early. Some bloom late (Vardy). I just wonder how many seasons should we wait on Solanke, if he can't convert those numbers to goals. Not us as supporters, but the club. Every new attacking purchase pushes him further down the pecking order, unless he turns shots into goals, which would guarantee him a start for sure.

I'm not at all worried about that. He's scored at every level. For us he has been mostly used as a night watchman coming on to see out games. If he was starting every week and not scoring, then we could ask the question, but as it stands it would be extraordinary if he was gettng many goals from such little meaningful game time.

As for Fowler and Owen, yes they were both prolific teenagers, but they were also both past it by 25.

[dirks digglers]

I just wonder how many seasons should we wait on Solanke, if he can't convert those numbers to goals. Not us as supporters, but the club. Every new attacking purchase pushes him further down the pecking order, unless he turns shots into goals, which would guarantee him a start for sure.

True. The odds are probably against him with the way this squad's quality keeps developing year on year.  If we take last season as a bedding-in period, then this season, all things being equal, you'd think he needs to start converting if and when he gets the minutes. It's a bit of a strange one in that Firmino is so remarkably good and unusual in what he does that there isn't really a straight way to replace him. If, God forbid, he gets injured, it would be interesting to see how Klopp would look to set the team up, and whether he'd give Solanke a go or work another option.

[JackWard33]

Well he had 6 shots in the 6 yard box, and 19 in the penalty area. But still, 19 shots on target should lead to more than 1 goal.

I never said I didn't fancy him as a player, I said I don't see it with him, in terms of what he does on the pitch. I think he's a reactive more than a proactive player. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good player. It means I'm not sure he will ultimately fit into Klopp's way of playing. But I can also be wrong


True on the minutes.

But he's 20. At 18 Fowler was putting 5 goals past Fulham. At 19 Michael Owen was turning the Argentine defence inside-out. Some goalscorers hit the ground running early. Some bloom late (Vardy). I just wonder how many seasons should we wait on Solanke, if he can't convert those numbers to goals. Not us as supporters, but the club. Every new attacking purchase pushes him further down the pecking order, unless he turns shots into goals, which would guarantee him a start for sure.

But you keep citing the 'turn shots into goals' as if its a skill he lacks??
It would be as wrong to draw conclusions about his finishing (positive or negative) as it would have been to conclude Origi was a great finisher based on him scoring 6 in 6 a couple of seasons ago
to be clear I'm not saying he is a top level striker just that he could be - we just don't know yet
I don't really see 'how long we give him as a club' is a good question after he's played 6 x 90 minutes for us??!!!!!

Game time is a different question of course - you're right that may well be a problem as he needs it to develop.  If he's not getting minutes him going out on loan at Christmas may well make sense

[Nessy76]

True. The odds are probably against him with the way this squad's quality keeps developing year on year.  If we take last season as a bedding-in period, then this season, all things being equal, you'd think he needs to start converting if and when he gets the minutes. It's a bit of a strange one in that Firmino is so remarkably good and unusual in what he does that there isn't really a straight way to replace him. If, God forbid, he gets injured, it would be interesting to see how Klopp would look to set the team up, and whether he'd give Solanke a go or work another option.

If, as seems likely, Ings and Origi leave, then Solanke is competing with Sturridge for the backup role. Hands up, who thinks Sturridge will be available for most of the season?

[newterp]

He will be the backup striker if Origi and ings are getting sold.

[PhaseOfPlay]

But you keep citing the 'turn shots into goals' as if its a skill he lacks??
It would be as wrong to draw conclusions about his finishing (positive or negative) as it would have been to conclude Origi was a great finisher based on him scoring 6 in 6 a couple of seasons ago
to be clear I'm not saying he is a top level striker just that he could be - we just don't know yet
I don't really see 'how long we give him as a club' is a good question after he's played 6 x 90 minutes for us??!!!!!

Game time is a different question of course - you're right that may well be a problem as he needs it to develop.  If he's not getting minutes him going out on loan at Christmas may well make sense

I wasn't saying it was a skill he lacks - I'm saying he - and EVERY young player - has to start producing the goods at some point, related to the outcomes demanded of their position. Otherwise, they're just a body on the field.

[JackWard33]

I wasn't saying it was a skill he lacks - I'm saying he - and EVERY young player - has to start producing the goods at some point, related to the outcomes demanded of their position. Otherwise, they're just a body on the field.

Oh for sure...

The key thing for me that this keeps circling back to is that he’s played 6 x90s for us so far - it’s so so little
And if you’re looking for the trend of how he’s developing - in his last competitive game he scored and was the best attacker on the pitch so what’s not to like
Bottom line is it’s way too soon to know what level he’ll reach but there’s more than enough evidence to be encouraged and find out. (Whether here or on loan)

[BabuYagu]

The only quality people seem to be able to point to on this kid is work rate.  Is that enough at the highest level of football, especially when you're in the side to score goals?  There must be a balance between how much energy you exert during a match so as to maintain a level of composure and reduce fatigue in critical goal scoring moments.  Anyone can just run around the field chasing lost causes, but if your scoring rate drops off how much of that is related to fatigue overexertion?

Far from true. I posted this on twitter the other day with some words about it that are likely largely repeating things I said on here already.  https://twitter.com/babuyagu/status/1019678258571481088

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Well he had 6 shots in the 6 yard box, and 19 in the penalty area. But still, 19 shots on target should lead to more than 1 goal.

I never said I didn't fancy him as a player, I said I don't see it with him, in terms of what he does on the pitch. I think he's a reactive more than a proactive player. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good player. It means I'm not sure he will ultimately fit into Klopp's way of playing. But I can also be wrong


True on the minutes.

But he's 20. At 18 Fowler was putting 5 goals past Fulham. At 19 Michael Owen was turning the Argentine defence inside-out. Some goalscorers hit the ground running early. Some bloom late (Vardy). I just wonder how many seasons should we wait on Solanke, if he can't convert those numbers to goals. Not us as supporters, but the club. Every new attacking purchase pushes him further down the pecking order, unless he turns shots into goals, which would guarantee him a start for sure.

He's the new Giroud.

[tboz]

Never saw him before Liverpool and only caught highlights of his youth world cup run so not sure what type of player he is meant to be.

Is he better modelling his game as being Sturridge's competition/replacement as direct goalscoring alternative?

or

Can he offer Firminos creativity and work rate?

Either way it going to be difficult for him when gets the opportunity this season.

Is he b

[NsRed]

Never saw him before Liverpool and only caught highlights of his youth world cup run so not sure what type of player he is meant to be.

Is he better modelling his game as being Sturridge's competition/replacement as direct goalscoring alternative?

or

Can he offer Firminos creativity and work rate?

Either way it going to be difficult for him when gets the opportunity this season.

Is he b

In the England youth side he was almost a 9 1/2 or 10, playing deeper as more of a playmaker. That gives me some hope that he can be shaped as a Firmino type 9 for us. He’s never been a massively prolific goal scorer even in the Chelsea youth sides. That was more the poacher Tammy Abraham role. Solanke can press, hold the ball up and has some playmaking skills. As Babu has very clearly laid out for us, the stats show us that he does a lot very well and I’m hoping he finally puts it all together.