Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[RyanBabel19]

Unless I'm imagining it, didn't an Arsenal player get sent off earlier in the season for jumping in and not even making any contact?

Not imagining it mate, it was Xhaka very early in the season.

[JRed]

Is there anywhere you can see a clip of the challenge close up at actual speed as opposed to the slowed down VAR clip?

Interested to see how Attwell could have deemed it didn't have the necessary force to warrant a red

Don’t forget, this is the Stuart Attwell that gave a goal when a shot had gone 3 yards wide.

[MH41]

As for the first goal, if we had scored it and the referee had disallowed it, I can just hear Alan Smith or whoever saying "nah. You can't touch the keeper like that. It's always going to be given as a foul. Every referee is going to give that",
and everyone would just accept that.
Likewise yesterday, if it had been disallowed, people would be saying "oh, Liverpool got away with one there", and then it would have been forgotten about, because they all know that it's always given as a foul (whether or not we agree with the keeper getting so much protection)

[Barneylfc∗]

As for the first goal, if we had scored it and the referee had disallowed it, I can just hear Alan Smith or whoever saying "nah. You can't touch the keeper like that. It's always going to be given as a foul. Every referee is going to give that",
and everyone would just accept that.
Likewise yesterday, if it had been disallowed, people would be saying "oh, Liverpool got away with one there", and then it would have been forgotten about, because they all know that it's always given as a foul (whether or not we agree with the keeper getting so much protection)

For me, I don't think it should have been disallowed. If it was us scoring it, I'd have been raging if it was disallowed.

But pretty much every single challenge on the keeper is a foul these days. Any other side conceding that would have had it ruled out. Pawson probably would've blew his whistle immediately, and it wouldn't have been overturned.

[HeartAndSoul]

So Attwell was the VAR ref yesterday. Same guy who took charge of our game against Brighton last season where the dodgy penalty was given. Also reffed our 3-3 draw against Brentford earlier on in the season.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

For me, I don't think it should have been disallowed. If it was us scoring it, I'd have been raging if it was disallowed.

But pretty much every single challenge on the keeper is a foul these days. Any other side conceding that would have had it ruled out. Pawson probably would've blew his whistle immediately, and it wouldn't have been overturned.

Just to add to his (and the post above) in the Brighton game at the weekend the Brighton keeper decided to come out and catch the ball.  It was a clean catch, but his momentum then took him over the top of a Newcastle player and he came down and landed on him, and then fell down in a heap (I can't remember if he dropped the ball or not).  The referee immediately blew for a foul despite the fact that the Newcastle player did absolutely nothing wrong, he didn't back into him and he didn't even jump!  Commentator and co-commentator look at the incident and say it is a foul.  That is the protection that goalkeepers get week in and week out.  So regardless of whether we think it should be a foul or not, we should just ask that the same standards are applied equally, which at the moment clearly isn't the case.

[The G in Gerrard]

Dermot Gallagher on Sky (Ref Watch): 1. First goal was a good goal - No issue. 2. Cresswell challenge - Not a red card. Point of contact wasn't like Holgate incident (At most should have been a yellow) - Smith and Warnock disagree with Gallagher.

Predictable. Doesn't matter if they are wrong or we disagree. The ref's aren't penalised for making mistakes.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Dermot Gallagher on Sky (Ref Watch): 1. First goal was a good goal - No issue. 2. Cresswell challenge - Not a red card. Point of contact wasn't like Holgate incident (At most should have been a yellow) - Smith and Warnock disagree with Gallagher.

Predictable. Doesn't matter if they are wrong or we disagree. The ref's aren't penalised for making mistakes.

This is Dermot "I have a Manchester United tattoo" Gallagher?

[Kekule]

Dermot Gallagher on Sky (Ref Watch): 1. First goal was a good goal - No issue. 2. Cresswell challenge - Not a red card. Point of contact wasn't like Holgate incident (At most should have been a yellow) - Smith and Warnock disagree with Gallagher.

Predictable. Doesn't matter if they are wrong or we disagree. The ref's aren't penalised for making mistakes.

Pretty sure Riley gets Gallagher on the blower on Sunday night and coaches him through the “correct” responses.  He’s effectively PGMOLs mouthpiece, they get their excuses out through him, but because he’s not formally involved with them there’s no comeback and Gallagher can just bat the criticism away.

[Walshy nMe®]

This is Dermot "I have a Manchester United tattoo" Gallagher?

Would rather hear Dermot O'Leary's opinion.

[RyanBabel19]

Dermot Gallagher on Sky (Ref Watch): 1. First goal was a good goal - No issue. 2. Cresswell challenge - Not a red card. Point of contact wasn't like Holgate incident (At most should have been a yellow) - Smith and Warnock disagree with Gallagher.

Predictable. Doesn't matter if they are wrong or we disagree. The ref's aren't penalised for making mistakes.

To add to the hilarious bullshit...

Ronaldos blatant red card sliding in with zero intention to play the ball... 'unwise and reckless' but somehow right decision not to give him a red

[vivabobbygraham]

Pretty sure Riley gets Gallagher on the blower on Sunday night and coaches him through the “correct” responses.  He’s effectively PGMOLs mouthpiece, they get their excuses out through him, but because he’s not formally involved with them there’s no comeback and Gallagher can just bat the criticism away.

Yeah, the lightbulb headed twat

[Dave McCoy]

Dale Johnson for the VAR thread had it at fine on the goal but Cresswell should have seen red even if it's debatable compared to Holgate's.

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1457748133732134916?s=20

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Ronaldos blatant red card sliding in with zero intention to play the ball... 'unwise and reckless' but somehow right decision not to give him a red

He's now been given the 'benefit of the doubt' for two weeks out of the last three.  If it happens again then surely they can't ignore it?    Yeah right.

One thing for sure though is that he has now shown that he is prone to petulant outbursts when wound up, so I'd be amazed if every central defender that plays against him for the rest of the season isn't doing everything possible to try and get a reaction out of him.

[red_Mark1980]

I just don't get any argument as to why Cresswell shouldn't have gone.

He's reckless and not in control of himself. Legitimately Henderson could have hurdled him and it's still a red.

[RyanBabel19]

He's now been given the 'benefit of the doubt' for two weeks out of the last three.  If it happens again then surely they can't ignore it?    Yeah right.

One thing for sure though is that he has now shown that he is prone to petulant outbursts when wound up, so I'd be amazed if every central defender that plays against him for the rest of the season isn't doing everything possible to try and get a reaction out of him.

They’re bending over backwards to excuse it simply because of the name

The thing is he does it and just walks off with his head down and they fucking ignore it. I hope defenders start winding him up every week to get a reaction.

Been saying it for years, refs need to be held way more accountable for their decisions, they get off with ruining games every week

[JRed]

They’re bending over backwards to excuse it simply because of the name

The thing is he does it and just walks off with his head down and they fucking ignore it. I hope defenders start winding him up every week to get a reaction.

Been saying it for years, refs need to be held way more accountable for their decisions, they get off with ruining games every week

I hope defenders start giving him it back.

[MH41]

Bored due to international break, and whilst clearing out some photos, came across this.
Hard to believe that it was deemed not to have crossed the line (particularly from this angle...I accept it's the wrong angle) It looks well over, lol. Fine margins.
A brief query. How does goal line technology remove defender's boots etc from the photo decision? And is it then completely accurate? Fine if it's just the ball, but in this case, the defender's boot is there as well (although in this case it does appear to be below the ball, so maybe not making a difference to the photo?) But if the foot is to the side of the ball, or worse, above it, how does it remove the foot, and still get an accurate decision?

[MJD-L4]

Dermot Gallagher on Sky (Ref Watch): 1. First goal was a good goal - No issue. 2. Cresswell challenge - Not a red card. Point of contact wasn't like Holgate incident (At most should have been a yellow) - Smith and Warnock disagree with Gallagher.

Predictable. Doesn't matter if they are wrong or we disagree. The ref's aren't penalised for making mistakes.

I think Ref Watch it the most pointless feature that Sky do. 99% of the time Gallagher backs the ref unless it's a decision that's so clearly wrong he can't possibly agree.

They may as well call it the "Ex Ref tells fans & pundits they're wrong" segment.

As for the lack of punishment, I'd love to see referee's forced to face the media after the games but that'll never happen.

Wouldn't mind seeing some sort of 3 strikes rule. 3 big mistakes in 1 season and you're off PL duty for the remainder of the season. Then can be re-assessed over the summer to see if you're fit to referee at the top again.

Wishful thinking.

[Statto Red]

I don't see the point of having refs on, explaining every controversial decision, they are are useless, & just back there mates up, i watch the NFL were they have a former ref in the studio, & quite often he'll disagree on penalties that have been given

[Crosby Nick]

Bored due to international break, and whilst clearing out some photos, came across this.
Hard to believe that it was deemed not to have crossed the line (particularly from this angle...I accept it's the wrong angle) It looks well over, lol. Fine margins.
A brief query. How does goal line technology remove defender's boots etc from the photo decision? And is it then completely accurate? Fine if it's just the ball, but in this case, the defender's boot is there as well (although in this case it does appear to be below the ball, so maybe not making a difference to the photo?) But if the foot is to the side of the ball, or worse, above it, how does it remove the foot, and still get an accurate decision?

Even if it got the decision correct it’s absolutely unbelievable that game of that magnitude can have something like that with such fine margins involved?

Was it 0-0 at the time? We ripped them apart with that move. It’s mad how even after hitting the post, the clearance went through Salah and didn’t rebound back in.

We could have scored the goal and lost the game so it’s not as simple as saying we lost the league by 11mm or whatever it was but fucks sake, it’s unbelievable how that wasn’t a goal.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Even if it got the decision correct it’s absolutely unbelievable that game of that magnitude can have something like that with such fine margins involved?

Was it 0-0 at the time? We ripped them apart with that move. It’s mad how even after hitting the post, the clearance went through Salah and didn’t rebound back in.

We could have scored the goal and lost the game so it’s not as simple as saying we lost the league by 11mm or whatever it was but fucks sake, it’s unbelievable how that wasn’t a goal.

If you want to feel even worse, watch the incident back and note how Mane is completely taken out by Ederson after he shoots.  As the ball stays in play and Mane would have had a good chance of getting to the rebound, that is a 100% stonewall penalty, but yet it is never mentioned due to the events that followed.

[Barneylfc∗]

If you want to feel even worse, watch the incident back and note how Mane is completely taken out by Ederson after he shoots.  As the ball stays in play and Mane would have had a good chance of getting to the rebound, that is a 100% stonewall penalty, but yet it is never mentioned due to the events that followed.

One of those ones where the ref doesn't call it because Mane got his shot away. Don't think I've ever seen a penalty give for one of those except against Liverpool.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

One of those ones where the ref doesn't call it because Mane got his shot away. Don't think I've ever seen a penalty give for one of those except against Liverpool.

But that 'unwritten rule' only usually applies if the ball goes out of play.  For this one if Mane isn't on the floor because of the challenge he gets to the rebound before Stones and has a tap in.

[Dim Glas]

I just don't get any argument as to why Cresswell shouldn't have gone.

He's reckless and not in control of himself. Legitimately Henderson could have hurdled him and it's still a red.

going all tin foil hat, but I honestly don’t care at this point, but if it’d been Henderson on Cresswell, it’d been deemed a red card by all media, every pundit and presenter and every sodding fan base from here to the moon.  And we all know that.  Every article on the BBC and every other online report would have been punctuated by tweets from various random football twitter gobshites letting us all know that it’s a disgrace he wasn’t sent off and that the league is out to help Liverpool, and pushing the league to take retrospective action (which would have happened).

[Medellin]

Talking about us getting fucked over, we've lost titles on blatant fuck ups..Alan Smith ghost header from an indirect free kick anyone?
This is as blatant as it gets..not even close, fucking miles onside which ultimately cost us another title..who was the officials that day by the way.. 🤔
Yeah Liverpool are given everything...fuck off.


<a href="https://youtube.com/v/nsGeR6Xbf2I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/nsGeR6Xbf2I</a>

https://youtu.be/nsGeR6Xbf2I

[El Lobo]

How the fuck are you allowed to carry on being a linesman when you do that?

[MH41]

If you want to feel even worse, watch the incident back and note how Mane is completely taken out by Ederson after he shoots.  As the ball stays in play and Mane would have had a good chance of getting to the rebound, that is a 100% stonewall penalty, but yet it is never mentioned due to the events that followed.

Yeah, and it happened with Mané again on Sunday, when he got his shot away (straight at the keeper) at the beginning of the second half. I think it was zouma who followed through him, with Mané ending up on the deck. Another penalty, but never given for some bizarre reason. In any other part of the pitch, if a player gets a pass away, and is then taken out late, it is a foul....

Can I just add another rule that is never applied (apart from Dudek, I think....? Maybe mignolet too?) The keeper kicking the ball from his hands always looks outside the area. I was calling for that with the last passage of play on Sunday! (Desperate measures, I know, lol) Fabianski was clearly outside his box, kicked it upfield, and the ref blew for FT.
As I said, I can only ever remember us being penalised for this before....

[Alan_X]

Bored due to international break, and whilst clearing out some photos, came across this.
Hard to believe that it was deemed not to have crossed the line (particularly from this angle...I accept it's the wrong angle) It looks well over, lol. Fine margins.
A brief query. How does goal line technology remove defender's boots etc from the photo decision? And is it then completely accurate? Fine if it's just the ball, but in this case, the defender's boot is there as well (although in this case it does appear to be below the ball, so maybe not making a difference to the photo?) But if the foot is to the side of the ball, or worse, above it, how does it remove the foot, and still get an accurate decision?

The Hawkeye system uses 7 cameras for each goal so it takes an exceptional set of circumstances for it not to work. It doesn;t need to emove the foot, it uses the five or six cameras on the other side to make the caalculations.

https://www.scienceabc.com/innovation/how-does-the-goal-line-technology-work.html

[Craig S]

Yeah, and it happened with Mané again on Sunday, when he got his shot away (straight at the keeper) at the beginning of the second half. I think it was zouma who followed through him, with Mané ending up on the deck. Another penalty, but never given for some bizarre reason. In any other part of the pitch, if a player gets a pass away, and is then taken out late, it is a foul....

Can I just add another rule that is never applied (apart from Dudek, I think....? Maybe mignolet too?) The keeper kicking the ball from his hands always looks outside the area. I was calling for that with the last passage of play on Sunday! (Desperate measures, I know, lol) Fabianski was clearly outside his box, kicked it upfield, and the ref blew for FT.
As I said, I can only ever remember us being penalised for this before....

That was Reina, away at Bolton. Replays showed he released the ball inside the area and kicked it outside. Should never have been a free kick, flagged for by the lino. Of course, they scored from it.

[El Lobo]

Dyou whats really funny? I know a few United fans who are genuinely convinced that they're the ones who get a tough time from officials. I lose track of the times we've been made an example of, never to be repeated again. Ashley Cole absolutely bellowing profanities at a lino got fuck all, and then a few days later Masch gets a red for asking why his team-mate was allowed to be assaulted....and then nothing after. Pepe Reina gets penalised for handball in that scenario and I've never once seen it given again. We concede to a fucking beach ball.

[swoopy]

How the fuck are you allowed to carry on being a linesman when you do that?

Because they get 1 chance to see it in real time, they're human, and didn't have the 'pleasure' of VAR to help them then.
Awful to see it back again though as to how onside it was.

[Medellin]

Because they get 1 chance to see it in real time, they're human, and didn't have the 'pleasure' of VAR to help them then.
Awful to see it back again though as to how onside it was.

This is one of those where you question everything about that decision, I hear ya with the one chance in real time but this was ridiculous, you can take it if it's close..or just onside, how far has that ball travelled before Sterling was close to being off..

[swoopy]

This is one of those where you question everything about that decision, I hear ya with the one chance in real time but this was ridiculous, you can take it if it's close..or just onside, how far has that ball travelled before Sterling was close to being off..

As the ball is played from a good distance away from where Sterling is, the linesman has to keep his eye on the exact second when the ball is kicked and see the exact positioning of Sterling. When his eye leaves the ball and switches to Sterling he thinks he's offside. That's all I can guess anyway.

[MH41]

That was Reina, away at Bolton. Replays showed he released the ball inside the area and kicked it outside. Should never have been a free kick, flagged for by the lino. Of course, they scored from it.

Had to check it out to recall it, lol. You're absolutely correct - against Bolton in 2006.
And yes, replays showed that while he had struck the ball outside the area he had actually thrown it (quite legally) from inside.
It was Gary Speed, RIP, who scored from the resulting free.....
I think it is the only time that it has ever been punished in the PL.

[MH41]

Apologies for my last few posts derailing the thread. Perhaps there should be a (very long) thread about shocking decisions that we have been on the end of, over the years....😂

[Medellin]

Last season..

Liverpool had most decisions against: 13
Most VAR incidents: 20
Most total disallowed goals for: 7
Zero penalties FOR, 3 penalties AGAINST

No VVD review there neither.

We always get the decisions eh..LiVARpool   

[vivabobbygraham]

Last season..

Liverpool had most decisions against: 13
Most VAR incidents: 20
Most total disallowed goals for: 7
Zero penalties FOR, 3 penalties AGAINST

No VVD review there neither.

We always get the decisions eh..LiVARpool   

By the end of this season, we'll look back fondly on these numbers. The fix is in.

[Rush 82]

Certain refs in the PL are, quite simply, outright cheats.

It's high time they got called out on it

[CraigDS]

No idea what they took Mane’s position from but seemed to be his wrist as it certainly wasn’t a point on his upper arm.