Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[El Lobo]

Part of Law 11: Offside

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

Yes we know the rule as it is now

[Golyo]

VAR corrected Anthony Taylor's baffling error regarding Pogba (how Ronaldo could remain on the pitch after kicking Jones 3 times, last two times after the whistle, is another mystery). Did you look at where Taylor was? He had an unobstructed view. With all the talk about Solksjaer and his imminent sacking, unfortunately the total incompetence of Taylor does not get the spotlight it deserves. I know, he is everybody's favourite English ref after spotting Eriksen's collapse so early, but fucking hell, his performance was on a par with the United squad's.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

VAR corrected Anthony Taylor's baffling error regarding Pogba (how Ronaldo could remain on the pitch after kicking Jones 3 times, last two times after the whistle, is another mystery). Did you look at where Taylor was? He had an unobstructed view. With all the talk about Solksjaer and his imminent sacking, unfortunately the total incompetence of Taylor does not get the spotlight it deserves. I know, he is everybody's favourite English ref after spotting Eriksen's collapse so early, but fucking hell, his performance was on a par with the United squad's.

Dont really blame Taylor for that, he has to see through Keita to see where the contact is made. The assistant on the other hand has a much better view.

The most baffling decision in the game was Maguire not being sent off, but nobody seemed to even consider it at the time.

[Golyo]

Dont really blame Taylor for that, he has to see through Keita to see where the contact is made. The assistant on the other hand has a much better view.

He doesn't have to see through Keita to see both studs showing, he can see them after the contact was made.

[El Lobo]

Nah it was a disgrace not to send him off first time from that position, it’s not a tough call

[Elzar]

Even if he doesn't see it properly, look at his assistant. Perfect angle on it.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Good old Dermot Gallagher was asked about this on Ref Watch and said that it wasn't a red card because he 'went in low'.  Now bear in mind that Jones' foot is off the ground here and it is still above the ankle, so imagine how high it would have been if his foot was planted.  As you say, he is also off the ground, completely out of control, and turned side on with his leg fully extended.  It's a cowards tackle to make sure that he doesn't get hurt and he couldn't care less about winning the ball.

Just to add to this, I'll quote a post from the match review thread which showed the GIFs of the two incidents

It's amazing how similar the challenges actually are, with the only real difference being that Fernandes keeps his other foot just out of the challenge and so technically it doesn't become a 'two-footer'.  But that shouldn't matter.  Both are out of control, jump into the tackle from distance, and are high with a straight leg and their studs showing. Both are classic examples of what should be looked at as being red card challenges by the rules, and if either player's leg is planted on the ground when the tackle is made they would have been very seriously injured.

[lamonti]

You could see from the initial reaction of the Liverpool players that it was a terrible red card tackle.

You could see from their subsequent reaction that this guy wasn't going to send off a United played even if he got a fucking baseball out of and starting cleaning house.

[KillieRed]

It won't get talked about but Anthony Taylor was absolutely awful! Honestly worst reffing performance of the year.

He`s a terrible, weak referee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Taylor_(referee)

I have no idea why he is allowed to be in charge of our matches, much less ones against Manchester teams. It`s a disgrace.

[KillieRed]

ESPN VAR League:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4452736/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2021-22

Liverpool and Arsenal are the "top" two this year so far, whilst they were equal bottom last season. Is that a sign that "these things even themselves out"? We`ll see how it goes.

[CraigDS]

The most baffling decision in the game was Maguire not being sent off, but nobody seemed to even consider it at the time.

I don't mind Taylor getting the Pogba one wrong per se (but he must have seen the jump and lunge as well as the studs up), however he didn't even give himself any time to think about it - he had his yellow out instantly. It was clearly a shocking challenge and he should have consulted his assistant.

I agree though, the Maguire decision and the Fernandes ones were shocking. Both should have been off.

[Funky_Gibbons]

ESPN VAR League:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4452736/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2021-22

Liverpool and Arsenal are the "top" two this year so far, whilst they were equal bottom last season. Is that a sign that "these things even themselves out"? We`ll see how it goes.

Liverpool +3
Overturns: 5
Leading to goals for: 2
Disallowed goals for: 1
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 1
Net goal score: +2
Subjective decisions for: 2
Subjective decisions against: 0
Net subjective score: +2
Penalties for / against: 1 / 0
Red cards for / against: 0 / 1

Game: Burnley (H; Aug. 21)
Incident: Mohamed Salah goal disallowed for offside, 26th minute - AGAINST

Game: Chelsea (H; Aug. 28)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Mohamed Salah) after handball on the line by Reece James, who was sent off, 45th minute - FOR

Game: Brentford (A; Sept. 25)
Incident: Mohamed Salah goal awarded after incorrect offside, 54th minute - FOR

Game: Man United (A; Oct. 24)
Incident: Cristiano Ronaldo goal disallowed for offside, 52nd minute - FOR
Incident: Paul Pogba sent off for challenge on Naby Keita, 69th minute - FOR

What are the two subjective decisions they refer to?

And how have these decidions 'evened themselves out' from last season? We were on the end of some horrific decisions last year, the Brighton and Everton penalties and Henderson's winner against Everton to mind. I don't think anyone could look at those decisions that have gone in our favour this season and say they were wrong or we were lucky.

[thaddeus]

What are the two subjective decisions they refer to?

And how have these decidions 'evened themselves out' from last season? We were on the end of some horrific decisions last year, the Brighton and Everton penalties and Henderson's winner against Everton to mind. I don't think anyone could look at those decisions that have gone in our favour this season and say they were wrong or we were lucky.

I presume it's the two red cards (James and Pogba).  Anything other than offside and goal-line technology is subjective.  Other than the fans of those two clubs and a small number of contrarians in the media nobody was disputing the final outcome was correct - really both should have been awarded without the need for VAR to intervene.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

What are the two subjective decisions they refer to?

I assume that the two red cards (and the resulting penalty against Chelsea, but they seem to be classing that as one decision) would be subjective decisions, whereas the offsides are deemed to be 'factual'.

[Kekule]

I presume it's the two red cards (James and Pogba).  Anything other than offside and goal-line technology is subjective.  Other than the fans of those two clubs and a small number of contrarians in the media nobody was disputing the final outcome was correct - really both should have been awarded without the need for VAR to intervene.

...and on both occasions who was the referee who needed VAR to intervene to give a blatant decision in our favour.

Probably a coincidence, but it's just not a good look considering where he's from and the rumours around his family allegiances.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I presume it's the two red cards (James and Pogba).  Anything other than offside and goal-line technology is subjective.  Other than the fans of those two clubs and a small number of contrarians in the media nobody was disputing the final outcome was correct - really both should have been awarded without the need for VAR to intervene.

I assume that the two red cards (and the resulting penalty against Chelsea, but they seem to be classing that as one decision) would be subjective decisions, whereas the offsides are deemed to be 'factual'.

OK that makes sense although once again I'd argue neither of those decisions were controversial and I still don't feel they've 'evened themselves out'. We were on the end of some horrific decsions last year, this year they've simply got the things right they should have on field.

[lamonti]

Does anyone remember that Fabinho tackle outside the box against Sheffield United last year that was reclassified as a foul inside the box? Like that was fucking insane.

[KillieRed]

What are the two subjective decisions they refer to?

And how have these decidions 'evened themselves out' from last season? We were on the end of some horrific decisions last year, the Brighton and Everton penalties and Henderson's winner against Everton to mind. I don't think anyone could look at those decisions that have gone in our favour this season and say they were wrong or we were lucky.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek about things evening out. That`s just the tired line that pundits put out. VAR was horrific for us last season, but I`d argue the "subjective" decisions (and non-decisions) that weren`t the subject of VAR were even worse (*goes looking for his tinfoil hat*).

As for the subjective decisions...people have mentioned the red cards that went in our favour. I immediately thought of the Fabinho goal he twatted in at a corner and they spent a while looking at to see if he had handled it? I may be wrong.

[KillieRed]

Does anyone remember that Fabinho tackle outside the box against Sheffield United last year that was reclassified as a foul inside the box? Like that was fucking insane.

Yep, the many hours scouring VAR just to see if they could pin things on us. I`m glad to say we`re not being scrutinized to that degree. I`d like to think that it`s league-wide that those decisions/investigations are not happening. I can`t lie and say that i don`t think that every goal we score I expect it to be pulled back, some of them I think "that looked offside" only for VAR to show that it wasnt. In the United game i was sure Jota was offside and Ronaldo onside. VAR PTSD is real.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I was being a bit tongue in cheek about things evening out. That`s just the tired line that pundits put out. VAR was horrific for us last season, but I`d argue the "subjective" decisions (and non-decisions) that weren`t the subject of VAR were even worse (*goes looking for his tinfoil hat*).

As for the subjective decisions...people have mentioned the red cards that went in our favour. I immediately thought of the Fabinho goal he twatted in at a corner and they spent a while looking at to see if he had handled it? I may be wrong.

Argh no worries. I actually thought the 'even itself out' line was written somewhere in the article you linked (I didn't read it all) so I thought I was moaning at them. 

[Andy82lfc]

I know the point has been made before but it needs really compounding, if Jones stays down holding his stomach for 5 minutes with the Ronaldo tackle, or holding his ankle in distress for the Fernandes one he gives the ref/var more of a problem, it is a fact of the game, so when he jumps up both times they don't give anything more as it is a lot easier for them.

Not saying I want our players to become like Fernandes and the like who would still be on the ground now if it happened to them, or for any challenge bad or not, but our players need to know how to work these shit refs and pose the question at times like this when the challenge is a leg breaker.

[BoRed]

They're still giving the most ridiculous penalties in Italy and Spain. Two for Napoli today, and just now a laughable one for Levante v Atletico.

[rushyman]

They’re pretty shit at this in Spain

Levante pen was so bad it must’ve been spite

[Barneylfc∗]

They're still giving the most ridiculous penalties in Italy and Spain. Two for Napoli today, and just now a laughable one for Levante v Atletico.

The first one for Napoli was a penalty all day long. Didnt see the other 2.

[BoRed]

The first one for Napoli was a penalty all day long. Didnt see the other 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Flf8sen_tw

The striker literally pushes the defender's arm onto the ball. I don't know, I suppose all of these penalties are in the "seen them given" category, but only because they keep giving them . I just think there's far too many of them, I have a feeling half the goals in Spain and Italy are scored from penalties, and most of them are soft.

There was another one last night in the Granada v Getafe game, again "seen them given", but combined with the two for Napoli and two for Levante (the first of which was fine), that's five penalties in three games, four of them soft at best. It's getting ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0kqO8a0778

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSnTjBlbcik

Perhaps the solution is to simply change the rules and not to award a penalty for any foul in the box, but only in situations when the fouled player was about to take a shot. It's mad that games get decided by penalties awarded for a ball hitting the hand of a player on its way out for a throw in, or a slight nudge on a player moving away from goal.

[Barneylfc∗]

The 2nd penalty for Levante there is a shocker alright.

[4pool]

Like life, there's always two sides to a discussion.

Here's what I would like to know.

Why do you think this part of law was put in {A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage} ?

Who asked for it?

Why did IFAB and FIFA adopt this part of the rule? What was their logic?

Surely it wasn't made up just to annoy some. There had to have been matches where IFAB and FIFA wanted or needed clarification. So all the Confederations had their say in the matter.

CONCACAF Final and this goal should have been disallowed per some on here because they don't like the rule. Defender not knowing if the player behind him is onside or not. About 23 seconds in. The only goal of the match. And it sends Monterrey to the World Club Championship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jKjfjMah_E&t=61s

It's the only vid I can find but VAR did look at it.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Yet more evidence over the last couple of weekends of what is really the problem with VAR, it's the R at the end.

Evans hauls down Aubameyang in almost exactly the same position on the pitch as Laporte hauls down Zaha and one is a red card and one is a yellow card.  Then Konsa is sent off for denying a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity to Bowen, who was in a far worse goal scoring position than Jota the weekend before when Maguire fouled him and only got a yellow card.

This kind of inconsistency is the easiest thing that VAR should be able to correct, but ultimately if the people using the technology aren't good enough then the results will continue to disappoint.

[Dim Glas]

Grade A dickhead Mark Clattenberg talking about the 2016 CL final:
https://twitter.com/Ad_MCFC/status/1456322277910450180?s=20

 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Grade A dickhead Mark Clattenberg talking about the 2016 CL final:
https://twitter.com/Ad_MCFC/status/1456322277910450180?s=20

 

Worst thing is you know he's completely made all of this up to try and justify his performance

[Dim Glas]

Worst thing is you know he's completely made all of this up to try and justify his performance

and making it worse!

It’s just typical of him that he made it all about him.

[BoRed]

and making it worse!

It’s just typical of him that he made it all about him.

And it's not even the first time after talking about not giving decision against Man Utd under Ferguson. That's twice he's gone on record effectively admitting match fixing. We laugh at the Italians, but if this happened in Italy, he'd end up in prison.

[Agent99]

It's still shit.

[DelTrotter]

This is a fucking disgrace

[Red-Soldier]

Looked a handball to me, and also a foul...........?

[Red-Soldier]

Wow!!! No red card for that horrendous challenge!

The game has gone back decades!

[Chakan]

Fucked twice already. Great tone to this game, you can foul the keeper and have 2 footed lunging challenges and that's fine.

[Statto Red]

Holgate got sent off for similar challenge earlier after var chek, but that on Hendo is ok.

[JRed]

Holgate got sent off for similar challenge earlier after var chek, but that on Hendo is ok.

Of course it is, it’s against us.
VAR looks to have chosen their side so it’s going to be tough today

[Tonyh8su]

So, remind me, what's the point in this fucking bullshit again?