Author Topic: Space exploration thread - Unexpected Rapid Disassembly in the launch area.  (Read 313903 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3160 on: July 11, 2022, 11:19:30 pm »
Booster 7 has just blown up….a bit….
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3161 on: July 11, 2022, 11:28:25 pm »
It's hard to get your head around but that not stars but galaxies and they said that an image of the night sky the size of a grain of sand held at arms length.

I think there is, also a better high res picture going around

Jonathan Mcdowell
We're looking at  a cluster of galaxies 5 billion light years away, and  images of even more distant galaxies behind it that are distorted and magnified by the gravity of the cluster




« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 11:59:08 pm by Trada »
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3162 on: July 12, 2022, 08:49:00 am »
I got into "trouble" last night for saying meh! They should have started with something a bit more impressive, I thought that I'd pretty much seen that before in the Hubble deep field shot




Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3163 on: July 12, 2022, 10:35:20 am »
Yeah, they all look pretty similar. What is important is what it can tell us. Because we can’t see the exciting stuff
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3164 on: July 12, 2022, 10:55:06 am »
BBC site explaining that if the sun disappeared, we wouldn't know for 8 minutes. (Ie speed of light).
Just purely in theory, if the sun evaporated instantly, would the gravitational impact hit us instantly too, or would the effect also be subject to speed of light?  My lack of knowledge of these things is in the dangerous category.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3165 on: July 12, 2022, 10:56:35 am »
I got into "trouble" last night for saying meh! They should have started with something a bit more impressive, I thought that I'd pretty much seen that before in the Hubble deep field shot




I must admit to being underwhelmed. Guess because of the hype. More impressed by a firminho no look goal.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3166 on: July 12, 2022, 10:58:05 am »
It's hard to get your head around but that not stars but galaxies and they said that an image of the night sky the size of a grain of sand held at arms length.

I think there is, also a better high res picture going around

Jonathan Mcdowell
We're looking at  a cluster of galaxies 5 billion light years away, and  images of even more distant galaxies behind it that are distorted and magnified by the gravity of the cluster






One thing I love about that image is that you can clearly see light bending around massive objects in many places as you said.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3167 on: July 12, 2022, 11:06:32 am »
I got into "trouble" last night for saying meh! They should have started with something a bit more impressive, I thought that I'd pretty much seen that before in the Hubble deep field shot



I was reading the hubble picture is what it can see from the sky the size of a tennis ball held at arms length and took 10 days to take the Webb one is and area of the sky the size of a grain of sand held at arms length and only took 1cday to take.

More pictures are released later.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3168 on: July 12, 2022, 11:18:36 am »
More pictures are released later.

Yeah it's really important etc but just feel NASA could have started with a huge bang, get Jo Public well on board and pushed ahead, I watched it last night, Vice President and President blabbing on for 5 mins then a picture I'd pretty much seen before, then it ended. Hopefully loads more in the additional pictures :)

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3169 on: July 12, 2022, 11:24:26 am »
All that hype for nothing.
I was expecting a detailed aerial shot of the Klingon home world.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3170 on: July 12, 2022, 11:31:29 am »
All that hype for nothing.
I was expecting a detailed aerial shot of the Klingon home world.

Only that? I was expecting Google Street View levels
I have no idea what I’m taking about

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3171 on: July 12, 2022, 02:39:37 pm »
Sky news saying the new pictures should be released within the next hour.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3172 on: July 12, 2022, 02:52:59 pm »
They are building up the pictures saying they are things they never thought they would ever see.

Pictures released in 38 minutes.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3173 on: July 12, 2022, 04:09:15 pm »
They are building up the pictures saying they are things they never thought they would ever see.

Pictures released in 38 minutes.
Gove on his homeworld?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3174 on: July 12, 2022, 04:23:20 pm »
Best thing so far for me has been the water vapour graph

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3175 on: July 12, 2022, 05:40:24 pm »
The gravitational lensing of some of these galaxies in the first image is something pretty impressive to see….  Looks like the film slipped….

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3176 on: July 12, 2022, 05:45:06 pm »
NASA TV Coverage of the James Webb Space Telescope's First Images - live when posting:
https://www.nasa.gov/content/first-images-from-the-james-webb-space-telescope
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3177 on: July 13, 2022, 12:19:34 am »
I always enjoy watching her videos

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/uZeEhUCAeac" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/uZeEhUCAeac</a>
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Offline lfcrule6times

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3178 on: July 13, 2022, 08:01:55 am »
https://web.wwtassets.org/specials/2022/jwst-release/#

Really puts the images into perspective.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3179 on: July 13, 2022, 10:06:06 am »
NGC 3324, the Carina nebula. Hubble and JWST comparison, Hubble first:





In the Webb image you can resolve individual stellar nurseries.
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Offline Crimson

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3180 on: July 13, 2022, 11:41:46 am »
I have no idea what I’m taking about

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3181 on: July 14, 2022, 09:40:11 pm »
NGC 3324, the Carina nebula. Hubble and JWST comparison, Hubble first:





In the Webb image you can resolve individual stellar nurseries.
Webb just sees a pen to man United.
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Offline TepidT2O

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“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3184 on: August 19, 2022, 09:41:33 am »
SLS Artemis 1 is due for launch on August 29th, although there's a seven day launch window.

I feel this should have more coverage? It's the first scratch built NASA vehicle since the space shuttle, and the first super heavy since the Saturn V. I know launches are considered routine these days, but I'd think that would warrant more attention.

I hope it goes well. Anything other than a successful launch could prove disastrous for NASA.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3185 on: August 19, 2022, 09:58:29 am »
SLS Artemis 1 is due for launch on August 29th, although there's a seven day launch window.

I feel this should have more coverage? It's the first scratch built NASA vehicle since the space shuttle, and the first super heavy since the Saturn V. I know launches are considered routine these days, but I'd think that would warrant more attention.

I hope it goes well. Anything other than a successful launch could prove disastrous for NASA.

I was reading about that the other day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62563720

Artemis: Nasa readies giant Moon rocket for maiden flight

The American space agency Nasa has rolled out its giant new Moon rocket to prepare it for a maiden flight.

Known as the Space Launch System (SLS), the vehicle was moved to Pad 39B at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida ahead of the expected lift-off on 29 August.

The debut outing is a test with no crew aboard, but future missions will send astronauts back to the lunar surface for the first time in over 50 years.

The near 100m-tall (328ft) SLS rode an immense tractor to the pad.

It started moving from its assembly building at Kennedy just before 22:00 on Tuesday, local time, and had completed the 6.7km (4.2 miles) journey by just after sunrise on Wednesday morning.

This is a key moment for Nasa, which will celebrate in December the half-century anniversary of Apollo 17, the very last human landing on the Moon.

The agency has vowed to return with its new Artemis programme, using technology that befits the modern era (Artemis was Greek god Apollo's twin sister and goddess of the Moon).

Nasa sees a return to the Moon as a way to prepare to go to Mars with astronauts sometime in the 2030s or soon after.

The SLS will have 15% more thrust off the pad than Apollo's Saturn V rockets. This extra power, combined with further enhancements, will allow the vehicle to not only send astronauts far beyond Earth but, additionally, so much equipment and cargo that those crews could stay away for extended periods.



The crew capsule, also, is a step up in capability. Called Orion, it is much more spacious, being a metre wider, at 5m (16.5ft), than the historic command modules of the 1960s and 70s.

"To all of us that gaze up at the Moon, dreaming of the day humankind returns to the lunar surface - folks, we're here! We are going back. And that journey, our journey, begins with Artemis 1," said Nasa Administrator Bill Nelson.

"The first crewed launch, Artemis 2, is two years from now in 2024. We're hoping that the first landing, Artemis 3, will be in 2025," he told BBC News.

Nasa has promised that this third mission will witness the first woman to put her boots down on the Moon's surface.



Once the SLS arrives at its launch pad, engineers will have just over a week and a half to get the vehicle ready for flight.

Three possible launch opportunities exist at the end of the month, starting with Monday 29 August.

If technical issues or inclement weather prevent the rocket from getting off Earth on this date, a further attempt can be made on Friday 2 September, and, failing that, on Monday 5 September.

The scope of the mission is to send Orion looping around the back of the Moon before bringing it home for a splashdown in the Pacific Ocean off California.

A major objective of the test fight is to check the heatshield on the capsule can survive the heat of re-entry into Earth's atmosphere.

A key partner on the upcoming mission is Europe.

It is providing the propulsion module that sits on the back of Orion, pushing it through space.

"More than 10 countries in Europe have been working on this European Space Agency (Esa) contribution. It's a hugely important moment for us," explained Siân Cleaver from aerospace manufacturer Airbus.

"The European Service Module is not just a payload, it's not just a piece of equipment - it's a really critical element because Orion can't get to the Moon without us."

Europe hopes its contribution to this and future SLS/Orion missions will eventually see a European national get to be part of a lunar surface crew at some point.

For now, it will have to cheer on the British animated character Shaun the Sheep. A puppet used in the stop-motion TV films has been placed in the Orion capsule, complete with an Esa badge and Union flag on its overalls.

While Nasa is developing the SLS, the American rocket entrepreneur Elon Musk is preparing an even larger vehicle at his R&D facility in Texas.

He calls his giant rocket the Starship, and it will play a role in future Artemis missions by linking up with Orion to get astronauts down to the surface of the Moon.

Like SLS, Starship has yet to have a maiden flight. Unlike SLS, Starship has been designed to be totally reusable and ought therefore to be considerably cheaper to operate.

A recent assessment from the Office of Inspector General, which audits Nasa programmes, found that the first four SLS missions would each cost more than $4bn to execute - a sum of money that was described as "unsustainable".

The agency said changes made to the way it contracts industry would bring down future production costs significantly.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54156798

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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3186 on: August 19, 2022, 10:20:13 am »
Hiw have they done t so much money to rehash 1970s technology? Incredible in many ways
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3187 on: August 22, 2022, 06:32:31 pm »
Hiw have they done t so much money to rehash 1970s technology? Incredible in many ways

Just saw video on bbc about this and thought the same thing

It is literally Apollo

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3188 on: August 22, 2022, 07:38:01 pm »
Still, the JWST is losing some very interesting questions.

There might be large galaxy clusters formed only 180m years after the Big Bang…which doesn’t really fit with the theory.

Great uncertainty with the data as yet though
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3189 on: August 23, 2022, 10:11:23 am »
Jupiter..
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3190 on: August 23, 2022, 11:11:19 am »
Still, the JWST is losing some very interesting questions.

There might be large galaxy clusters formed only 180m years after the Big Bang…which doesn’t really fit with the theory.

Great uncertainty with the data as yet though
That's the great thing about it though. No one is certain about what happened after the Big Bang (never mind before), what the universe is expanding into, the 'fact' that the universe expanded at faster than the speed of light, the whole dark matter/energy thing, or almost anything else for that matter. All additional information, proving or disproving, is welcomed equally, and that is the great thing. Faith is the enemy.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3191 on: August 25, 2022, 07:43:37 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/H93KDxYKeKU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/H93KDxYKeKU</a>
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3192 on: August 26, 2022, 08:09:19 am »
https://blog.physics-astronomy.com/2022/07/astronomers-discover-water-reservoir.html

Astronomers Discover A Water Reservoir Floating In Space That Is Equivalent To 140 Trillion Times All The Water In The Earth's Ocean

There is a reserve of water the size of 140 trillion oceans lurking in a faraway supermassive black hole, the universe's largest deposit of water and 4,000 times the amount found in the Milky Way.

This amount of water was discovered by two teams of astronomers 12 billion light-years away, where it appears as vapor dispersed across hundreds of light-years.

The reservoir was discovered in a quasar's gaseous area, which is a brilliant compact region in the heart of a galaxy powered by a black hole. This finding demonstrates that water may be present throughout the cosmos, even at the start.

While this is not surprising to experts, water has never been discovered this far out before. The light from the quasar (specifically, the APM 08279+5255 quasar in the constellation Lynx) took 12 billion years to reach Earth, implying that this mass of water existed when the universe was just 1.6 billion years old.

One group used the Z-Spec instrument at the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory in Hawaii, while the other used the Plateau de Bure Interferometer in the French Alps.

These sensors detect millimeter and submillimeter wavelengths, allowing the detection of trace gases (or vast reservoirs of water vapor) in the early cosmos.

The discovery of many spectral fingerprints of water in the quasar provided researchers with the data they needed to calculate the vast magnitude of the reservoir.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3193 on: August 26, 2022, 08:54:26 am »
https://blog.physics-astronomy.com/2022/07/astronomers-discover-water-reservoir.html

Astronomers Discover A Water Reservoir Floating In Space That Is Equivalent To 140 Trillion Times All The Water In The Earth's Ocean

There is a reserve of water the size of 140 trillion oceans lurking in a faraway supermassive black hole, the universe's largest deposit of water and 4,000 times the amount found in the Milky Way.

This amount of water was discovered by two teams of astronomers 12 billion light-years away, where it appears as vapor dispersed across hundreds of light-years.

The reservoir was discovered in a quasar's gaseous area, which is a brilliant compact region in the heart of a galaxy powered by a black hole. This finding demonstrates that water may be present throughout the cosmos, even at the start.

While this is not surprising to experts, water has never been discovered this far out before. The light from the quasar (specifically, the APM 08279+5255 quasar in the constellation Lynx) took 12 billion years to reach Earth, implying that this mass of water existed when the universe was just 1.6 billion years old.

One group used the Z-Spec instrument at the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory in Hawaii, while the other used the Plateau de Bure Interferometer in the French Alps.

These sensors detect millimeter and submillimeter wavelengths, allowing the detection of trace gases (or vast reservoirs of water vapor) in the early cosmos.

The discovery of many spectral fingerprints of water in the quasar provided researchers with the data they needed to calculate the vast magnitude of the reservoir.
Mind truly boggled.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3194 on: August 28, 2022, 11:38:58 am »
https://www.physics-astronomy.com/2022/08/webb-telescope-has-snapped-perfect.html

Webb Telescope Has Snapped A Perfect Einstein Ring 12 Billion Light-Years Away



Webb has now accomplished this feat once more, this time successfully photographing an almost flawless Einstein ring located around 12 billion light-years away.

Below is a colorized version of the photograph that astronomy graduate student Spaceguy44 posted on Reddit.

An Einstein ring develops when a big galaxy in front of a distant galaxy magnifies it and wraps it into a nearly perfect ring, as Spaceguy44 explains on Reddit.

The galaxy in consideration is known as SPT-S J041839-4751.8, and its distance from Earth is an astounding 12 billion light-years.

Here is a further-reaching perspective of it that Spaceguy44 also processed:



Without the Einstein ring, according to Spaceguy44, we wouldn't be able to observe this galaxy at all.

Additionally, the existence of Einstein rings makes it possible to investigate these galaxies, which would otherwise be extremely hard to observe.

Einstein predicted this effect, hence the term gravitational lensing, which describes the process.

The alignment of the far-off galaxy, the nearby magnifying galaxy, and the observer (in this example, the Webb space telescope) is required for the effect to occur.

Even though seeing Einstein's rings is unusual, it does occasionally happen. Hubble has already taken pictures of stunning Einstein rings.

The information in the most recent image was retrieved from the MAST portal and was obtained by Webb's Mid-Infrared Instrument (MIRI) camera.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3195 on: August 28, 2022, 02:36:28 pm »
Anyone who wants to see Einstein's ring is just weird.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3196 on: August 28, 2022, 09:12:54 pm »
https://www.physics-astronomy.com/2022/08/james-webb-may-soon-disprove-big-bang.html

James Webb May Soon Disprove The Big Bang Theory And Prove The Universe Is Much Older, Possibly Trillions Of Years

    To everyone who sees them, the new James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) images of the cosmos are beautifully awe-inspiring. But to most professional astronomers and cosmologists, they are also extremely surprising — not at all what was predicted by theory.

    In the flood of technical astronomical papers published online since July 12, the authors report again and again that the images show surprisingly many galaxies, galaxies that are surprisingly smooth, surprisingly small and surprisingly old. Lots of surprises, and not necessarily pleasant ones. One paper’s title begins with the candid exclamation: “Panic!”

Why     do the JWST’s images inspire panic among cosmologists? And what theory’s predictions are they contradicting? The papers don’t actually say.

    The truth that these papers don’t report is that the hypothesis that the JWST’s images are blatantly and repeatedly contradicting is the Big Bang Hypothesis that the universe began 14 billion years ago in an incredibly hot, dense state and has been expanding ever since. Since that hypothesis has been defended for decades as unquestionable truth by the vast majority of cosmological theorists, the new data is causing these theorists to panic. “Right now I find myself lying awake at three in the morning,” says Alison Kirkpatrick, an astronomer at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, “and wondering if everything I’ve done is wrong.” ERIC J. LERNER, “THE BIG BANG DIDN’T HAPPEN” AT IAI.TV (AUGUST 11, 2022)

Although we didn’t usually hear of it, there’s been dissatisfaction with the Standard Model, which begins with the Big Bang, ever since it was first proposed by Georges Lemaître nearly a century ago. But no one expected the James Webb Space Telescope to contribute to the debate.


An Interested Party

Now, Lerner is the author of a book called The Big Bang Never Happened (1992) but — while that makes him an interested party — it doesn’t make him wrong. He will be speaking at the HowTheLightGetsIn festival in London (September 17–18, 2022) sponsored by the Institute for Art and Ideas (IAI), as a participant in the “Cosmology and the Big Bust” debate.

The upcoming debate, which features philosopher of science Bjørn Ekeberg and Yale astrophysicist Priyamvada Natarajan, along with Lerner, is premised as follows:

The Big Bang theory crucially depends on the ‘inflation’ hypothesis that at the outset the universe expanded many orders of magnitude faster than the speed of light. But experiments have failed to prove evidence of cosmic inflation and since the theory’s inception it has been beset by deep puzzles. Now one of its founders, Paul Steinhardt has denounced the theory as mistaken and ‘scientifically meaningless’.

Do we have to give up the theory of cosmic inflation and seek a radical alternative? Might alternative theories like the Big Bounce, or abandoning the speed of light provide a solution? Or are such alternatives merely sticking plasters to avoid the more radical conclusion that it is time to give up on the Big Bang altogether?

A Potential Solution

Here’s a debate on this general topic from last year’s festival (but without JWST data). It features theoretical physicist Sabine Hossenfelder, author of Lost in Math: How Beauty Leads Physics Astray, along with Ekeberg and particle physicist Sam Henry.




<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/b8npmtsfsTU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/b8npmtsfsTU</a>

« Last Edit: August 28, 2022, 09:15:04 pm by Andy @ Allerton! »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3197 on: August 29, 2022, 12:05:25 am »
Yeah, there’s a huge huge range in their early data it should be said..

Firm perfectly fine to ….oh dear…..

Way to early to call anything
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3198 on: August 29, 2022, 05:24:01 am »
SLS launch window opens today... live coverage here https://youtu.be/0_vyZiVxEEo
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #3199 on: August 29, 2022, 06:28:36 am »
Yeah, there’s a huge huge range in their early data it should be said..

Firm perfectly fine to ….oh dear…..

Way to early to call anything

From what I've read, it seems that the evidence still points to the big bang theory is still valid, the universe is still expanding. Think there are some who are waiting for more data though, as it seems the earliest galaxies and clusters they are picking up look more well formed than they first expected. Right now though there are only a few circulating images, so we are well away from the point of actually having a large amount of empirical evidence pointing one way or another.