Topic: The Beatles

[Hinesy]

The Definition of a great guitarist is someone who could make the instrument do what they wanted, who could make it cry, make it sing out loud and raise your soul, not just get a noise out it...


So with due respect get to fuck
George Harrison was a great great guitar player. End of.

( Ringo was shite by the way in case we get any drummers involved )

The Beatles are the subject of so much debate because they were so profilic and diverse, from the twee skiffle of their early stuff to Helter Skelter to the perfect pop of some of the Love me Do times, they really invented and crossed a lot of genres.

Whether you like their music or not, respect is due without question. That's why people who say they were rubbish don't know music.

Arrogant of me to say so ? Maybe but think about the boundaries they broke, without them so many bands would not have climbed aboard a transit van, so many songs would not have been heard.


PS Dan-the-Man :  it says you're 14... perhaps Dan-the-soon-to-be-man ?   

[man in brown]

So with due respect get to fuck
George Harrison was a great great guitar player. End of.

Harrison was the greatest guitarist for the beatles......but a great great guitar player....hmmmm....id have let great go but great great....i say non....and i love the beatles......and ringo may have been shit but he was perfect for the beatles....if thats not contradictory

[Hinesy]

No no, i agree Ringo was perfect for the Beatles, and in the context of being right for a band, who can ever argue whether the members are right or wrong as we just don't know.
Were the Stones better or worse without Brian ?

But I do think George was a great guitarist. Not cos he was like Robert Fripp who could play anything on the instrument but because his seemingly simplistic playing was fuckin hard to do and he was a genius.

[mikeb58]

As much as i prefer Lennon overall, there's no doubt Lennon and McCartney were as important as each other within the band. McCartney could turn out rockers as much as Lennon, but more importantly they worked off, and inspired each other.  Paul would also kick Johns lazy arse in to gear at times as well.  I don't think Paul deserves all the stick he gets these days, i reckon he 'tries too hard' to please everyone, and it seems to have the opposite effect.                                                                                                                                 

[man in brown]

As much as i prefer Lennon overall, there's no doubt Lennon and McCartney were as important as each other within the band. McCartney could turn out rockers as much as Lennon, but more importantly they worked off, and inspired each other.  Paul would also kick Johns lazy arse in to gear at times as well.  I don't think Paul deserves all the stick he gets these days, i reckon he 'tries too hard' to please everyone, and it seems to have the opposite effect.                                                                                                                                 

spoken like a gent

[Matt S]

As much as i prefer Lennon overall, there's no doubt Lennon and McCartney were as important as each other within the band. McCartney could turn out rockers as much as Lennon, but more importantly they worked off, and inspired each other.  Paul would also kick Johns lazy arse in to gear at times as well.  I don't think Paul deserves all the stick he gets these days, i reckon he 'tries too hard' to please everyone, and it seems to have the opposite effect.                                                                                                                                 

I'd agree with that. Trying ot be a 'man of the people' or something. Cant pull it off. His contribution to the beatles is unquestionalbe however.

[man in brown]

still heather mc cartney really landed on her foot marrying him eh?

[mr_mad_master]

im not from england and I was born in1989 and even i dont mind a bit of lady maddona

[man in brown]

im not from england and I was born in1989 and even i dont mind a bit of lady maddona

born in 1989........fuck me i feel old now.......i was 18 and off my tits on drugs and cider then.....christ.

[Roddysul]

have recently been listening to George's "All things must pass" album quite a lot - truly wonderful.

[America's Sweetheart]

The Definition of a great guitarist is someone who could make the instrument do what they wanted, who could make it cry, make it sing out loud and raise your soul, not just get a noise out it...

No. That's your definition. Not THE definition. See below for more on this

So with due respect get to fuck

With no respect whatsoever, eat a dick. Beeatch.

End of.

Obviously not.

Ringo was shite by the way in case we get any drummers involved

Arse from elbow time. A lot of people have a lot of time for him as a drummer. Others don't. Genuine question: Didn't the others bring him into the Beatles because he was considered the best drummer around at the time? I think all the arguments in favour of Harrison's "greatness" can also be applied to Ringo's drumming. But one thing's for sure, as a singer he made a great drummer.

.
.
.

I'm not sure I can offer a definition of a "great guitarist". But I can tell you some of the people I consider to be great and otherwise.

The Non-Greats
===========
Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhodes and anyone else who ruined rock music by filling every space with twiddly look-at-me shite.

Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and anyone else with soulless technical expertise

Anyone who plays like they want to see the word "pyrotechnics" in their reviews.


Greats
=====
Jimmy Page - for everything. From his session work to his album with the Black Crows -- except for his godawful acoustic instrumentals. Barely a misplaced note. Never too much. Always just right.

Paul Kossof - again, the perfect rock and blues guitar

Bo Diddley & Chuck Berry - originators and popularisers

Rory Gallagher - great songs and great playing

Keith Richards
Ronnie Wood
Mick Ralphs
Johnny Ramone
Tony Iommi
Fast Eddie Clark

- No pyrotechnics, but kings of rock

Johnny Marr
John Perry
Bernard Butler

Neil Young
Ted Nugent

- Two of the best live guitarist

Does this mean anything? I doubt it 

[Hinesy]

wouldn't argue with your list much.

But Paul Kossof - top guitarist suited very much to his genre.
That's the same reason, for me, why George should be in there.

of course the rest is subjective, if there was a definitive list, it'd be a short thread.











PS Tommy Iommi
Bernard Butler

they're great and George isn't ?
my arse 

[man in brown]

Bron-yr-aur and Black Mountainside as Godawful!!!!!!!!!


i was gonna agree with everything you said there....but that statement ruined it.

[America's Sweetheart]

of course the rest is subjective, if there was a definitive list, it'd be a short thread.

And isn't that the fun of it?

Tommy Iommi
Bernard Butler

Iommi is a ham-fisted plumber of a guitarist - but he is the absolute king of the dumbass heavy metal heavy metal riff.

Bernard Butler - I just love his work, both as a guitarist and a songwriter. I think he's the last really good Guitarist with a capital G. And at least two of his songs with McAlmont would feature in my Top 100 of All Time.

[man in brown]

your still wrong about bron-yr-aur and blackmountainside though...........

guitar greats:
jimmy page
jimi hendrix
bert jansch
rory gallagher
tony iommi
angus young
neil young
stephen stills
nick drake
john martyn
martin barre
johnny marr
paul kossof
peter green
danny kirwan
ron wood
dave davies
george harrison (what he brought to the beatles makes him a great)

[Hinesy]

your still wrong about bron-yr-aur and blackmountainside though...........

guitar greats:
jimmy page
jimi hendrix
bert jansch
rory gallagher
tony iommi
angus young
neil young
stephen stills
nick drake
john martyn
martin barre
johnny marr
paul kossof
peter green
danny kirwan
ron wood
dave davies
george harrison (what he brought to the beatles makes him a great)

that's almost a perfect list...

[mikeb58]

Stuart Adamson, the Skids and Big Country fantastic guitarist.

[man in brown]

Stuart Adamson, the Skids and Big Country fantastic guitarist.

youre trying to grow a flower in a desert arent you?

[Hinesy]

Stuart Adamson, the Skids and Big Country fantastic guitarist.

dead isn't he ? suicide I believe.

[man in brown]

didnt help his status a la cobain, curtis etc did it.....still shat one, seen big country when they were touring the crossing album, excellent gig.

[Barney_Rubble]

Steve Vai...soulless

LMFBO

You've either never listened to him or you just don't have a clue...

[mikeb58]

Stuart commited suicide aged 42, i'd followed his band for 18 years and got to know him pretty well. Great bloke, a tragic loss.

[Hinesy]

knew a mate  in fife who ended up buying one of his early guitars... we just looked at it in awe! 

[man in brown]

still in saying all that he wouldnt make it into my top 50 fave guitarists.

[Kop4]

Stuart commited suicide aged 42, i'd followed his band for 18 years and got to know him pretty well. Great bloke, a tragic loss.

Didn't wait for the 'Saints' to come and get him.

He went looking for them.

Sad waste indeed.  And perhaps his most haunting riff?

[Kop4]

Bernard Butler - I just love his work, both as a guitarist and a songwriter. I think he's the last really good Guitarist with a capital G. And at least two of his songs with McAlmont would feature in my Top 100 of All Time.

So you would exclude John Squires of the Stone Roses?

Can't ignore him Low mate cos he came up with some of the defining riffs of the early 90's.

 

[America's Sweetheart]

You've either never listened to him or you just don't have a clue...

I'm reminded of a remark I've already made about "rubble" and the contents of your head.

Does it really look like I "don't have a clue"?

You might disagree with my opinion, but it's based on having considerably more than a clue and gravel between my ears.



And now, returning to our normal programming, I think a distinction has to be made between "great" and "very good", so that from the list I gave earlier, I'd say that Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff are definitely Greats, and Johnny Marr and Bernard Butler are just very good.

I think John McGeoch belongs in the ranks of the very, very good and that Barney Sumner might too.

[Kop4]

I think John McGeoch belongs in the ranks of the very, very good and that Barney Sumner might too.

I think you could safely say Barney is one of the few people who play the guitar much, much bettter than they can sing.

[Barney_Rubble]

Does it really look like I "don't have a clue"?

Every time you post.

Why not tell me about being in a band, eh...

LMFBO

[America's Sweetheart]

I think you could safely say Barney is one of the few people who play the guitar much, much bettter than they can sing.

But he has a nice voice. Kinda.

I was just watching some old ITV show about early punk and they showed Joy Division doing "Shadow Play" on (I think) Tony Wilson's show. Barney was really good. Surprisingly so for 1978.

[America's Sweetheart]

Every time you post.

Of course.

Why not tell me about being in a band, eh...

LMFBO

Um. OK, Mr Muso Rock Star. I'm 19. I've been in three bands. None of them very good. But all good fun. I play bass guitar but not very well. And I'm planning on forming a punky-grrly band here in Austin later this year.

And - read my lips here - I'm prepared to bet I know more about music than you do. I probably know more about the music business than you do. And I'm absolutely sure that I have way better taste - though this last one is sadly hard to measure empirically.



Now, why don't you tell me about being in a SUCCESSFUL band ? 

[Drobs]

Very tricky subject. Comments on the Beatles talents cant really fall into a fair pot because we have since seen so many other great guitarists, you have to put your mind into the early 1960's and go by what they did at the time. Just as every great artist who has appeared on the scene since has changed things for the better in his/her own way the lads did back then. Music develops over time, everything develops over time...evolution. Is a Da Vinci comparable with a Picasso? Separated by hundreds of years? The point is different era's throw up new concepts you have to go by what they did at the time and how long standing it is in its greatness.

The Beatles were so broad - great writing, great melodies and a huge blend of ability in all songs. You can go from your 2/3 simple chord songs to wonderfully intricate numbers with 20+ chords. Does it make a better song to have more variation with the guitar or with lyrics? Who decides whether a song is great or not? I think it can only ever go down to individual interpretation, there is no rule to follow just consideration of the time, the intention of the songs and what the world wanted/wants from the world of music.

In my eyes its an injustice to do anything other than to applaud them for what they did, masters of their time and a lasting popularity.

That's Job done I'd say.

[Barney_Rubble]

And - read my lips here - I'm prepared to bet I know more about music than you do. I probably know more about the music business than you do. And I'm absolutely sure that I have way better taste - though this last one is sadly hard to measure empirically.

LoL really LoL

Now, why don't you tell me about being in a SUCCESSFUL band ?

LoL I show you my tour passes should I?

Still LMFBO

[America's Sweetheart]

LoL I show you my tour passes should I?

I suspect I may have more than you. Really.

You're underestimating what and who I know, because I'm a 19 year old girl who plays piss poor bass. But I was brought up in the music business. I had a Bob Dylan AAA tour pass before I was four years old. For an Italian tour. With Tom Petty, The Heartbreakers and Roger McGuinn.

If you were really all that, you'd be able to tell from my other postings that - while you might disagree with my opinions - I can at least explain and argue my corner intelligently and that I do actually know my stuff.

But I really can't be arsed "arguing" the point with a disrespectful dickhead whose only contribution is to drop dismissive webby acronyms (just I just dropped a few big names) as a substitute for facts and argument.

So. Peace. I'm out.

[Barney_Rubble]

a disrespectful dickhead

You do make me laugh.

If you really are 19 then I'll just say that I've been doing it since before you were born.

Do pipe down. You have so much to learn...

[Drobs]

Calm down people whether you're in there or not has no relevance to how you interpret music - as i said previously its an individual thing, each to their own and all that.

[Barney_Rubble]

Peace

Nah. Fuck Off, hippy...

[Kop4]

But he has a nice voice. Kinda.

I was just watching some old ITV show about early punk and they showed Joy Division doing "Shadow Play" on (I think) Tony Wilson's show. Barney was really good. Surprisingly so for 1978.

Aargh.

Low,

I have the Best of Punk video with that on.

That performance was magical.  A defining moment in my young life.  Hit me right between the eyes, simply because in a sea of vomit, spitting and pogoing, came that masterful restrained song and video.  So far removed from punk.

Stopped me in my tracks. 

Barney looks about 15, and that solo is just haunting, but so simple.

Superb.  Thanks for the memory jog.

[Egg]

LMAO @ barney "fuck off hippy"

I don't know why I found that so funny but I did.

How come nobody has yet mentioned Gary Moore as a great guitarist, which in my opinion he is

[cornelius]

Prefer the Rolling Stones personally.

Now I've never understood this point of view.

I can understand people who say they don't like the Beatles as they may just not like the style of music but the Beatles and the Stones both made rock n' roll and the stones are just not in the same league. They've made some great records but not nearly as many as the beatles nor did they make music as diverse as the Beatles.

One of the problems I feel with the Beatles is that a great many people actually haven't heard most of what the Beatles have to offer. The hits that get aired in the mainstream today merely scratch at the surface, the tip of the iceberg if you like.

I first started getting into the Beatles about the age of 13. Within a year or two I had all the CD's and yet even now I find myself going back to albums and hearing something in a different light, rediscovering songs or finding hidden gems.

Hey Bulldog was a song I only really became aware of a few years back. It's John Lennon at his absolute best but I'm guessing your average Joe in the street would probably not have much recognition of it.

Listen to Tomorrow never Knows off Revolver. It's mindboggling to think that it was recorded in 1966 - almost 40 years ago!!!

George Harrison was a fabulous songwriter and in many ways it's unfortunate that such a great songwriter was in a band with perhaps the two greatest songwriters of all time as his stuff often gets overlooked. Although on the anthology there is plenty of Harrison stuff that underlines just how good he was.

Sadly the same cannot be said of Ringo. Octopus's garden is a steaming turd of a song.

Of course it's well over 30 years since the Beatles split and yet Let it be Naked was still one of the best album releases of last year.