Topic: The Beatles

[Garstonite]

Fair enough. It's all about opinions at the end of the day. It just so happens yours is wrong.

[Barney_Rubble]

Fair do's

[Garstonite]

[Barney_Rubble]

 

[FinnishRed]

I was listening to John's 'Serve Yourself' today, apparently an angry reply to Dylan. The way he sings it, is just dead funny.

"You say you found Jesus Christ
He's the only one
You say you've found Buddha
Sittin' in the sun
You say you found Mohammed
Facin' to the East
You say you found Krishna
Dancin' in the streets

Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew
And it's your mother (your mother, don't forget your mother, lad)
You got to serve yourself
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you
You got to serve yourself
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you
Well you may believe in devils and you may believe in lords
But if you don't go out and serve yourself, lad, ain't no room service here

It's still the same old story
A bloody Holy War
A fight for love and glory
Ain't gonna study war no more
A fight for God and country
We're gonna set you free
We'll put you back in the Stone Age
If you won't be like me - get it?

You got to serve yourself
Ain't nobody gonna do for you
You got to serve yourself
Ain't nobody gonna do for you
Well you may believe in devils and you may believe in lords

'But Christ, you're gonna have to serve yourself and that's all there is to it.
So get right back here it's in the bloody fridge. God, when I was a kid.
Didn't have stuff like this, TV-fuckin' dinners and all that crap.
You fuckin' kids are all the fuckin' same! Want a fuckin' car now...
Lucky to have a pair of shoes!'

You tell me you found Jesus Christ
Well that's great and he's the only one
You say you just found Buddha
Sittin' on his ass in the sun
You say you found Mohammed
Kneeling on a bloody carpet facin' the East
You say you found Krishna
With a bald head dancin' in the street ('Well, Christ, now you're
being heard')

You got to serve yourself
Ain't nobody gonna do for you
You got to serve yourself
Ain't nobody gonna do for you ('that's right, lad, you better get that straight
into your fuckin' head')
You got to serve yourself ('you know that, who else is gonna do it for you, it
ain't me I tell you that')
Well, you may believe in Jesus, and you may believe in Marx
And you may believe in Marks and Spencer's and you may believe in bloody
Woolworths
But there's something missing in this whole bloody stew
And it's your mother, your poor bloody mother ('she worked for you in the
back bedroom, full of piss and shit and fuckin' midwives. God, you can't
forget that awful moment, you know. You should have been in the bloody
war, lad, and you would know all about it. Well, I'll tell you something.')

It's still the same old story
A Holy bloody War, you know, with the Pope and all that stuff
A fight for love and glory
Ain't gonna study no more war
A fight for God and country, and the Queen and all that
We're gonna set you free
Bomb you back into the fuckin' Stone Age
If you won't be like me, you know, get down on your knees and pray

Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew
And it's your goddamn mother you dirty little git, now
get in there and wash yer ears!"

[Rox]

I'll defend the Beatles against invaders [including Cliff], but I do prefer the Beach Boys...

*runs away scared of repraisals from such blaspheming*

[kesey]

I'll defend the Beatles against invaders [including Cliff], but I do prefer the Beach Boys...

*runs away scared of repraisals from such blaspheming*

I prefer The Grateful Dead .             

[Rox]

I prefer The Grateful Dead .             

Not to surf to, surely....

[kesey]

Not to surf to, surely....

Surfing the vibes maaaaaaaaaaaaaan.           

[La Vecchia Magpie]

That is the question I've came up with for my Media coursework (A2) and for things like this sometimes wikipedia and other such websites just aren't as helpful as a well thought out response from some older posters who were maybe around at the time, or who know alot aboout The Beatles. I've already got a fair chunk of it written down (1500 word limit, 100 words either way) but I thought it would be helpful to gain some more opinions. So, answers on a postcard please.

[jambutty]

In a nutshell, the lyrics were catchy, the tunes were boss, guitar & bass riffs were ahead of their time, harmonies were distinctive and spot on and their Scally personalities captivated everyone.

[Stussy]

The Beatles are the Shakespeare of popular music, in that everyone who came afterwards are in their shadow, influenced by them even if they don't realise it. They just did everything first, brilliantly, and were a collective genius who for around ten years altered music forever. Every single step of the way, they were original and unique to a degree that the genre had never seen before and has never has seen since. They were a cultural supernova and they placed their songs, melodies, lyrics and discordant miracles into the collective imagination of the entire world. They took the landscape of Liverpool and intertwined it with their sensibility and innovation, they were equally dark and light, they ran from bubblegum love songs to the avant garde, they incorporated 'world music' into their work before anyone else had even heard of a sitar, they had a creative tension that produced diamonds in the most intense and original outpouring of popular music there has ever been.

Ultimately though it's difficult to explain why they are so great. They were all together an authentic case of artistic genius and it's almost impossible to explain genius. There is something mysterious about it. It's impossible to imagine the world we live in now without their sonic miracles. Not just artistically, but culturally too, they represented something deep beyond themselves.

So the best way to answer your question is to simply say --- listen to their music. Beyond everything else, the music is sublime and is its own explanation.

[Slick_Beef]

The Beatles are the Shakespeare of popular music, in that everyone who came afterwards are in their shadow, influenced by them even if they don't realise it. They just did everything first, brilliantly, and were a collective genius who for around ten years altered music forever. Every single step of the way, they were original and unique to a degree that the genre had never seen before and has never has seen since. They were a cultural supernova and they placed their songs, melodies, lyrics and discordant miracles into the collective imagination of the entire world. They took the landscape of Liverpool and intertwined it with their sensibility and innovation, they were equally dark and light, they ran from bubblegum love songs to the avant garde, they incorporated 'world music' into their work before anyone else had even heard of a sitar, they had a creative tension that produced diamonds in the most intense and original outpouring of popular music there has ever been.

Ultimately though it's difficult to explain why they are so great. They were all together an authentic case of artistic genius and it's almost impossible to explain genius. There is something mysterious about it. It's impossible to imagine the world we live in now without their sonic miracles. Not just artistically, but culturally too, they represented something deep beyond themselves.

So the best way to answer your question is to simply say --- listen to their music. Beyond everything else, the music is sublime and is its own explanation.

Can't add to that really! There's your conclusion sorted for you mate

[FlashingBlade]

they studied Oasis' music, copied it then became massively successful!

[pinkdragon]

The Beatles are the Shakespeare of popular music, in that everyone who came afterwards are in their shadow, influenced by them even if they don't realise it. They just did everything first, brilliantly, and were a collective genius who for around ten years altered music forever. Every single step of the way, they were original and unique to a degree that the genre had never seen before and has never has seen since. They were a cultural supernova and they placed their songs, melodies, lyrics and discordant miracles into the collective imagination of the entire world. They took the landscape of Liverpool and intertwined it with their sensibility and innovation, they were equally dark and light, they ran from bubblegum love songs to the avant garde, they incorporated 'world music' into their work before anyone else had even heard of a sitar, they had a creative tension that produced diamonds in the most intense and original outpouring of popular music there has ever been.

Ultimately though it's difficult to explain why they are so great. They were all together an authentic case of artistic genius and it's almost impossible to explain genius. There is something mysterious about it. It's impossible to imagine the world we live in now without their sonic miracles. Not just artistically, but culturally too, they represented something deep beyond themselves.

So the best way to answer your question is to simply say --- listen to their music. Beyond everything else, the music is sublime and is its own explanation.

That pretty much covers it.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

I believe there were bands in Liverpool at the time (according to me dad anyway) that were considered better, The Big Three were apparently the best in the city at the time. The fact that the Beatles were rejected by Decca and Capitol records at various points shows that not everyone had the foresight to recognise their potential, I think the image created by Brian Epstein was a large factor in their success.

Would they have been so successful if they'd stayed leather clad and quiffed? I don't know, I think they might have been perceived as a bit too rebellious, but stick them in suits with mopheads for haircuts and they're a lot more palatable to the media and the masses.

The music is undoubtedly brilliant and perhaps they may not have been seen in the same light today had they not taken shit loads of drugs and reinvented themselves and their sound time and again, always pushing the boundaries but I think a lot of what made the Beatles so successful is they were the right band, in the right place at the right time.


 

[Ken-Obi]

Oldies having trouble moving with the times?

[Circa1892]

They were popular at the time because they wrote catchy tunes, good lyrics, and together had a good image.

They were around at exactly the right time. The sixties, free love, swinging sixties etc, perfect time for a phenomenon of a band to emerge.

As for their remaining popularity, it comes down to the fact that, not only were they very, very good, but also that they've influenced bands.

Use the Oasis example in the 1990's. They were the biggest band at the time, the band most young people were listening to. People then say "they copied The Beatles", prompting young people to check out The Beatles, discover they were great, and so the cycle goes on...

[Stussy]

I think a lot of what made the Beatles so successful is they were the right band, in the right place at the right time.

Interesting way of looking at things, but I still think that it came more from their innate collective talent than just being in the right place at the right time. They took their opportunities, and flew high in the sky with them. All that earlier success bought them the creative freedom and time to mess about and experiment with their later albums. By 1966 they could have retired as millionaires and dissapeared into mansions in Surrey like countless other rich musicians. They didn't though, they stayed in the world and kept pushing the boundaries and pushing their talent to the very limits.

I guess what I mean is, every single great artist in whatever medium has to catch the breaks. But after that, it's up to them.

The thing is, they probably didn't even realise what they were doing. They were just young and had an insatiable energy and curiousity and went for it. And the creative and personal tension between Lennon and McCartney was like their plutonium, it just fuelled them endlessly in the second half of the Beatles life.

They were ace.

[Barney_Rubble]

Theo Adorno

[Timbo's Goals]

The Beatles are the Shakespeare of popular music in that everyone who came afterwards are in their shadow, influenced by them even if they don't realise it. They just did everything first, brilliantly, and were a collective genius who for around ten years altered music forever. Every single step of the way, they were original and unique to a degree that the genre had never seen before and has never has seen since. They were a cultural supernova and they placed their songs, melodies, lyrics and discordant miracles into the collective imagination of the entire world. They took the landscape of Liverpool and intertwined it with their sensibility and innovation, they were equally dark and light, they ran from bubblegum love songs to the avant garde, they incorporated 'world music' into their work before anyone else had even heard of a sitar, they had a creative tension that produced diamonds in the most intense and original outpouring of popular music there has ever been.

Ultimately though it's difficult to explain why they are so great. They were all together an authentic case of artistic genius and it's almost impossible to explain genius. There is something mysterious about it. It's impossible to imagine the world we live in now without their sonic miracles. Not just artistically, but culturally too, they represented something deep beyond themselves.

So the best way to answer your question is to simply say --- listen to their music. Beyond everything else, the music is sublime and is its own explanation.

Fuck me Stussy - superb understanding and encapsulation.

 

Someone else said they were in the right place at the right time. Which is sort of correct but would have actually counted for nothing had it not been for the Beatles themselves being so unprecedented so as to enable life's goalposts to be moved lock stock and barrel to make such fortuitousness possible.

I posted something similar to Stussy's post - though not half as good - on a previous Beatles thread. As someone who lived through it all I know it to be a fair reflection of where they fit into Life's Big Equation, let alone pop music's.

 The point is - as Bono said so succinctly only the other night at the MTV awards - "in the universe of rock music The Beatles were the Big Bang."

Which is as succinct as it gets in encapsulating the immensity of the Fab Four.

What it translates to with regard to your initial opening request is that you cannot piss around with trying to understand what The Beatles are about by snatching at an odd greatest hits album or even the more highly recommended albums such as Rubber Soul or Revolver.

Such introductions to mere mortal bands is perfectly fine. However, the uniqueness of The Beatles demands a respect demanded by no other artist - save Bob Dylan. A full hit is called for - and will not - nay cannot - disappoint. Unless you don't enjoy music, that is.

The fact is, without The Beatles there simply wouldn't have been the music industry that has indulged us and itself these past 50 years with the incredible range of artists and music that we have all since been privileged to be exposed to.

When you are listening - if, that is, you follow this advice - then bear in mind that as each track unfolds you are listening to the very first - occasionally and understandably rudimentary - attempts at that particular style and brand of music.

In this connection, also bear very much in mind the thoughts of your own hero himself, Bob Dylan, when first exposed to the sound of the group's explosion into the American consciousness back in 1964 when he first heard the crackle of "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" on the car radio. It was along the lines of [Timbo interpretation of his complete and utter incredulity at the sound] ".....but you can't do that...those chords... they're fuckin outrageous...the clapping ...fuckinell ...unbelievable..gotta do some of this !!???      [which prompted his electric outburst at Newport I guess]

So on that first album - as you hear 'Please Please Me' and 'I Saw Her Standing There' pulsing out - remember that nobody at the time those tracks were first heard had ever been exposed to anything remotely like that sound.

Whilst naturally informed by the musical influences of their 50's predecessors - the music hall, the crooners, the balladeers, the early rock 'n' rollers, the Doo Wop, the gospel etc etc, the fact was The Beatles had absorbed them all and instinctively synthesised them into their own hitherto unprecedented brand.

And from that point of hitherto unrivalled musical breakthrough they proceeded to explode like a supernova for the next six years pushiing back the musical frontiers with the successive release of each of their many great singles and albums.

Until their star burnt itself out.

By which time they had entirely changed the face of music - and to an extent life itself - in less time than some groups take to produce a follow up to their debut album.

That was their unique genius.

And it was the brand of music they kept on re-inventing which went on to at least inform and at at most heavily influence or even dictate the style and substance of every other artist we have ever heard since.

Of course, there is so much more to the music of The Beatles - not least the most far ranging songbook of truly amazing songs and melodies [if not perhaps the depth of lyricism] in popular music.

But, whatever, the fact is when listening to - and particularly when appraising - the music of The Beatles any opinion deriving therefrom is rendered meaningless unless the basic credentials and yardsticks I've highlighted are brought into the equation.

And, of course, the fact they were also born and bred scouse is simply something about which every native of this area will always be able to reflect on with unique pride denied folk from anywhere else.

But we won't go on about that.

Much.   
 

Hope you do them justice.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Just write "This is why...." and sellotape a cassette with Tomorrow Never Knows on it to the piece of paper.

[La Vecchia Magpie]

Firstly thank you to Stussy and Timbo for those helpful replies. Also how high would you regard Esptein in relation to The Success of The Beatles, was he a big factor or not?

[Stussy]

Yes Epstein was very important to them.  He had an interesting background himself, he had dreams of escape coming from his lower middle-class Jewish Liverpool background, and he lived at a time when being gay wasn't accepted, he dreamed big for the Beatles because he wanted to dream big for himself.

They were everything he wasn't - cocky, quick-witted Gentile Scouse lads with a wit and cheeky arogance and glamour, they were a gang, and he had the entrepeneurial spirit they probably lacked. By associating with them he fulfilled himself as much as he helped them to be fulfilled.  He made them believe that they could succeed, he hustled like all svengalis do to bring success, and when he died it must have brought an edge to them, they were still young and easy, and it threw a shadow over them, it made them grow up and shocked them out of the wonderland they'd been in for so long since they first exploded into success. But artistically, they always had the talent inside them to be what they were.

[Bob Loblaw]

Anybody here actually around at the time? Witness it first hand?

[coffeehead]

The image and marketing aspect that led to their success has been covered by Stussy et al; but never forget the sheer compositional talent of McCartney in particular. Beatles fans will always argue and too and fro about 'who was better' out of Lennon and McCartney, always eventually agreeing that it was the creative tension between them allowed them to scale such heights at such a young age. Ether way the talent was already there.

If you haven't seen it already I suggest you beg/borrow or download a copy of the Lennon and McCartney episode of Howard Goodall's Twentieth-Century Greats, which will give you a really comprehensive introduction into their creative abilities and their influence

[Slave]

You can't underestimate George Martin's production either, so I'd give that a considerable mention.

[IloveGuinness17]

They had the image down. The were christened the kings of the goldern era of the 1960's along with Bob Dylan. I mean alot of cats are still hung up on the 60's. There was some spectacular stuff going on in terms of thought and creativity that had to happen. THe rest is a media buildup. The typical crap like "everyone was on drugs" and everyone was protesting in the streets" is a load of shite and unfortunatley these have taken over the true aspects of what was going on.  And for alot of reasons thats why people dig them still. And the music was pretty good if ur interested in that

[shelovesyou]

Just write "This is why...." and sellotape a cassette with Tomorrow Never Knows Strawberry Fields Forever on it to the piece of paper.

or get the Anthology on DVD mate ...........

Before the beatles there was nothing

[Victor]

A lot of good points posted here but I'd just add 2 things I think helped in the why are they still so popular part of the question....

1 They split while they were ahead and never reformed .... makes people miss them all the more

2 They never allowed their songs to be put on compilations of the 60s or any such like ... meaning that they were never thrown in along with all the others .. . they stood out and apart .. the only way to hear Beatles was to get the Beatles albums ....

[IloveGuinness17]

I thought wacko jacko owns the right to all the beatles music or something like that. BUt yeah, either way I would say that keeping the songs to the specific albums was/is a great idea

[Art Vandelay]

There is an excellent episode of Howard Goodall's 20th Century Greats that focuses just on the Beatles and how their music was so far ahead of everyone elses....it's obviously more about the technical aspects of music, but I would urge anyone interested in the Beatles to try and find it.

[ALPH1217]

I think history will show that the shit really hit the fan after Epstein died. It all seemed to come apart shortly afterwards with all the legal squabbles and in-fighting. He was a sharp guy who held everything together but it was chaos which ensued after his death.

[Terry de Niro]

You can't underestimate George Martin's production either, so I'd give that a considerable mention.

Spot on. If you listen closely to some of the stuff they recorded before he got hold of them it's messy to say the least.
The Beatles would never made it without George Martin. He was also responsible for some of their inventiveness later, and played the harpsichord solo on In my life.

[Phil M]

And, they had the best drummer in the world, ever. 

[Terry de Niro]

And, they had the best drummer in the world, ever. 

Paul McCartney was never the best drummer in the World. 

John Lennon was once asked did he think Ringo was the best drummer in the world? and he answered, "Ringo's not even the best drummer in the band". 

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Paul McCartney was never the best drummer in the World. 

John Lennon was once asked did he think Ringo was the best drummer in the world? and he answered, "Ringo's not even the best drummer in the band". 

time to show those links again T 

[Jankulovski]

Not meaning to be cynical, I love the Beatles and everything, but if you're looking at all the reasons that they're still so successful, you could look at the fact that one of the members, and one of the most well known people on the planet, was shot dead when he was only 40. Obviously not the only reason for their success, far from it, but there's definitely something there; look at the enduring reputations and fan bases for James Dean, Marilyn Monroe etc.

[Terry de Niro]

time to show those links again T 

Fucking hell. Don't get me started..

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Not meaning to be cynical, I love the Beatles and everything, but if you're looking at all the reasons that they're still so successful, you could look at the fact that one of the members, and one of the most well known people on the planet, was shot dead when he was only 40. Obviously not the only reason for their success, far from it, but there's definitely something there; look at the enduring reputations and fan bases for James Dean, Marilyn Monroe etc.

Really ?? is that true