Topic: The Traitors

[Schmarn]

Spoiler

The editing is interesting. At least 3 times we’ve had Harry say “Don’t worry about Mollie, she believes everything I say”. It’s as if that might blow up in his face.  Murdering Zack is a waste of time as is Jaz as neither is liked. Mollie will never be banished so should go leaving a group of faithfuls shooting at each other.

I was amazed that no one questioned Harry’s theory of being murdered and saved by his shield. Disappointed Jaz didn’t smell a rat there.

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[Nobby Reserve]

Spoiler

The editing is interesting. At least 3 times we’ve had Harry say “Don’t worry about Mollie, she believes everything I say”. It’s as if that might blow up in his face.  Murdering Zack is a waste of time as is Jaz as neither is liked. Mollie will never be banished so should go leaving a group of faithfuls shooting at each other.

I was amazed that no one questioned Harry’s theory of being murdered and saved by his shield. Disappointed Jaz didn’t smell a rat there.

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Agree with what you say.

Spoiler

How different it could have been if Ross had stuck to his initial instinct and refused to join the traitors.

Then again, he's such a div that he'd probably have walked into breakfast and declared it to everyone


And, whilst I understand the comments about Harry kinda deserving to win because of how well he's played it from the start, he's such a cocky twat I want to see him undone[/spoilers]

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[smutchin]

Spoiler

The editing is interesting. At least 3 times we’ve had Harry say “Don’t worry about Mollie, she believes everything I say”. It’s as if that might blow up in his face.

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I noticed that too. Definitely deliberate by the producers, setting him up nicely for the inevitable. Love it.

Spoiler

Charlotte said in Uncloaked that she was on to Paul early and used getting close to him as a shield, though she never said that on camera during her time in the game. Seems plausible that Mollie is doing the same with Harry but similarly keeping it to herself.

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[filopastry]

Spoiler

There are a few clues there, but I don't think anyone will pick up on them, its the usual way things go, people just don't want to see it unless its blatantly obvious, if its about someone popular.

I mean does anyone think its odd that Ross was a traitor who voted to kill his mum? Assuming that is unlikely to have happened the only timing that works is him being recruited on the previous night, so the whole Harry story is meaningless, as clearly they didn't try to kill on that night.

Also the traitors desparately wanted to kill Harry that night, but then didn't last night even though nobody had the shield? Make that make sense 

Zack is too busy patting himself on the back for getting Ross, even though his logic to get there was completely wrong! 
 

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[Chris~]

I noticed that too. Definitely deliberate by the producers, setting him up nicely for the inevitable. Love it.

Spoiler

Charlotte said in Uncloaked that she was on to Paul early and used getting close to him as a shield, though she never said that on camera during her time in the game. Seems plausible that Mollie is doing the same with Harry but similarly keeping it to herself.

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Don't really buy it, no reason they couldn't say this in their bits to camera as it'd add more intrigue to the show(I get they could have and the edit didn't allow it but seems unlikely from what they are showing). Easy to say after when you've looked like an idiot.

[Circa1892]

Spoiler

Bit of a damp squib the last two after last week. It does just seem like it’s a long procession for Harry. Mad that nobody has ever questioned his shield narrative. Only way he doesn’t win is if they get Evie out and then someone twigs that everyone who didn’t know Harry had the shield were faithful…

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[JerseyKloppite]

Spoiler

Can’t see past Harry having this sown up. There was a chance this evening if Jas had the courage of his convictions but he was too worried about the ramifications. Even then Jasmine seemed inevitable.

As it is I reckon Andrew will go next - Harry will orchestrate that with Mollie who is very suspicious of him. He’ll admit he was a traitor and they’ll think they’ve got them all. And if there’s any more suspicion at this point it’s probably on Evie.

If Jas genuinely thinks it’s Harry he needs to go for it as if he’s right he’ll get nothing anyway.
 

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[Chris~]

Spoiler

Not a fan of the producers setting it up to make it even harder for multiple traitors to win. Should have allowed the murder tonight, or done a twist where winner of the sword gets to murder/save someone. Seems like it's being set up for a Mollie/Jas/Harry final 3 and who does Mollie trust

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[Barefoot Doctor]

Spoiler

Can’t decide if the lack of a murder helps or hinders the Traitors. It gives Harry one more person to cast suspicion on, but on the other hand obviously means there are more Faithful left instead of it being 50/50.

Would expect Evie to be banished, given the suspicion was on her and Jasmine. Still think there’s a chance Harry goes, because both Jas and Andrew would be willing to vote for him and they’d just need to convince more. Evie could be persuaded as she now doesn’t trust anyone. Mollie turning on Harry would probably be the best end, but struggle to see it.

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[UntouchableLuis]

Spoiler

I think Evie goes first tomorrow but as someone said, red flags should then appear around Harry as anyone who didn't know about the shield would be gone so it seems incredibly lucky for Harry that he wasn't murdered that night.

Andrew is not making it unless he and Jaz turn the heat up on Harry.

The only reason Wilf lost last year was because someone basically told everyone he was a traitor in a roundabout way so Andrew is going to have to do something similar but I reckon they've tightened it up this year and such a thing won't be allowed

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[Agent99]

Spoiler

Yeah I could see Jaz and Andrew going for Harry. Hopefully get the little shit out

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[JerseyKloppite]

Spoiler

Can’t decide if the lack of a murder helps or hinders the Traitors. It gives Harry one more person to cast suspicion on, but on the other hand obviously means there are more Faithful left instead of it being 50/50.

Would expect Evie to be banished, given the suspicion was on her and Jasmine. Still think there’s a chance Harry goes, because both Jas and Andrew would be willing to vote for him and they’d just need to convince more. Evie could be persuaded as she now doesn’t trust anyone. Mollie turning on Harry would probably be the best end, but struggle to see it.

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Spoiler

Mollie's faith in Harry seems ludicrously unshakeable. I can't see how anyone in this process can feel that they can believe in anyone else - it's the whole concept of the show that people will pretend to be nice in order to win money

If she keeps siding with him, which she surely will, then he's safe. The fact that she's so openly suspicious of Andrew helps him too, as if that picks up traction and Harry joins in to kick Andrew off, then he'll be revealed as a traitor and it'll look like they've got the last one.

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[UntouchableLuis]

Just thought

Spoiler

if Andrew goes up and reveals he's a traitor then the rest should then know that there has to be a 2nd traitor as he knew Harry had a shield so obviously wouldn't have tried to murder him so why wasn't there a murder that night? Because another traitor was recruited.

Of course they might not work that out. Or they'll just assume it was Ross recruited

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[Barefoot Doctor]

Spoiler

they were smart, the Faithfuls would question why a murder didn’t happen and realise it’s because they need to keep things balanced since there are two traitors remaining.

I’d like Jas to win given he’s routinely guessed who the Traitors actually are.

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[goalrushatgoodison]

Spoiler

Evie is te key to the game now. Andrew will know that he has to get rid of Harry or Mollie or hes fucked if he gets to the final three! No one is going to banish Molllie so he has to go for Harry. Jas has to show his hand now too re Harry as any later will be too late so there are two clear votes for Harry there. It is all about whether they can get Evie on board or not. I think they will because she will be in the firing line herself otherwise. /spoiler]

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[KissThisGuy]

Spoiler

Not a fan of the producers setting it up to make it even harder for multiple traitors to win. Should have allowed the murder tonight, or done a twist where winner of the sword gets to murder/save someone. Seems like it's being set up for a Mollie/Jas/Harry final 3 and who does Mollie trust

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Spoiler

It's not really difficult for multiple traitors to win from here. If Andrew and Harry worked together they'd be able to split the cash pretty easily.

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[Bobsackamano]

Spoiler

Will Jaz grow a pair and take Harry down or will he remain too afraid? Andrew and Harry know the final will not stop until at least 1 Traitor is uncovered, at what point do they go for each others throat? Is Harry's incredibly effective ruse about the shield going to lead to Evie going as well? Is Mollie playing the cleverest game of all, is she going to use Harry to take down everyone else then claim the prize herself? The last episode lost a bit of steam but a big finale could still happen. I'm still with Jaz, he's playing a high risk/high reward strategy, this games all about timing.

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[Barefoot Doctor]

Agree it’s lost a little bit of steam but think that’s happened in most Traitors I’ve seen. Seems to peak between episodes six and nine. At that point, you know everyone but theres still loads of people so still a chance for lots of different outcomes. By the end, there’s hardly anyone left and that makes it a bit less interesting, at least until the very end when it does get interesting again.

[filopastry]

Agree it’s lost a little bit of steam but think that’s happened in most Traitors I’ve seen. Seems to peak between episodes six and nine. At that point, you know everyone but theres still loads of people so still a chance for lots of different outcomes. By the end, there’s hardly anyone left and that makes it a bit less interesting, at least until the very end when it does get interesting again.

The traitors tend to kill off the more interesting characters amongst the faithfuls as well!

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Spoiler

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, but it seems obvious to me the traitors must always have at least 2 of them at the end - it is vote until you decide there is no more traitors, so a traitor almost has to have a fall guy, a traitor must fall to end the game, so for a traitor to win you really need another one there with you in the final.

I still need to watch tonight's episode, but from the Wednesday one they kept talking as if there is one left, but a traitor playing a good game can't ever really enter a final without another traitor to take the fall

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[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Spoiler

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, but it seems obvious to me the traitors must always have at least 2 of them at the end - it is vote until you decide there is no more traitors, so a traitor almost has to have a fall guy, a traitor must fall to end the game, so for a traitor to win you really need another one there with you in the final.

I still need to watch tonight's episode, but from the Wednesday one they kept talking as if there is one left, but a traitor playing a good game can't ever really enter a final without another traitor to take the fall

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Spoiler

A sole traitor can be there at the end and win - it'll then just have to be a case of always surviving the banishment until there are just two of you left. As seen in the Australian one, once there are two left, if one of them is a traitor then the traitor wins. I actually reckon with Harry's following in there he could achieve this if he was on his own at this point.

I said the other day that I think it's incredibly unfair on the faithfuls that the traitors were allowed to recruit Ross so late on. There's no way they could think that there would be three traitors out of eight people at that point, especially having already found three. Made it pretty much impossible for the faithfuls to win.

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[Only Me]

Well I got about halfway through before I completely lost interest.

Probably the longest I’ve ever watched one of these reality shows, but it’s just so contrived and skewed towards the result that the producers want that there’s no sense of jeopardy, and I lost all interest in who wins, and became very bored with it all.

Decent idea in there somewhere for a show, but they should sack off this recruitment shite and just stick to the original three traitors and if they get rumbled earlier then so be it.

[UntouchableLuis]

Well I got about halfway through before I completely lost interest.

Probably the longest I’ve ever watched one of these reality shows, but it’s just so contrived and skewed towards the result that the producers want that there’s no sense of jeopardy, and I lost all interest in who wins, and became very bored with it all.

Decent idea in there somewhere for a show, but they should sack off this recruitment shite and just stick to the original three traitors and if they get rumbled earlier then so be it.

How would it work if all the traitors were gone by say, 5 or 6 episodes in though?

The producers need a traitor in there until the end and I guess realistically they'll get it (especially with recruiting) but even without recruiting this series would have one traitor left still.

[Buck Pete]

it's just so contrived and skewed towards the result that the producers want that there’s no sense of jeopardy, and I lost all interest in who wins, and became very bored with it all.

I'm watching to the end.  In the words of Magnus Magnusson.  "I've started so I'll finish"

But yep, the producers and their fucking contrived moves have kind of ruined this for me

[JerseyKloppite]

How would it work if all the traitors were gone by say, 5 or 6 episodes in though?

The producers need a traitor in there until the end and I guess realistically they'll get it (especially with recruiting) but even without recruiting this series would have one traitor left still.

I presume there must be rules for this. Like if all of the traitors get caught before the last episode, they appoint a new one.

[Redley]

I'm not sure you know, I wonder if the producers might just let them keep banishing themselves because they're assuming that people keep getting recruited.

[Nobby Reserve]

Spoiler

Can’t see past Harry having this sown up. There was a chance this evening if Jas had the courage of his convictions but he was too worried about the ramifications. Even then Jasmine seemed inevitable.

As it is I reckon Andrew will go next - Harry will orchestrate that with Mollie who is very suspicious of him. He’ll admit he was a traitor and they’ll think they’ve got them all. And if there’s any more suspicion at this point it’s probably on Evie.

If Jas genuinely thinks it’s Harry he needs to go for it as if he’s right he’ll get nothing anyway.
 

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Spoiler

Last episode, we had Andrew talking to Jaz and Evie to point the finger at Harry, with Jaz guardedly giving some agreement. If Andrew gets the opportunity to talk more frankly with Jaz, that could firm-up. Evie knows the crosshairs are on her and you'd hope she'd be canny enough to latch onto any talk of targeting a different player.

Surely, when it comes to the final crunch, Jaz won't stay sat on his hands and allow himself to just be picked off. Especially if Andrew pipes up against Harry (who you know will go for Andrew)

That's my hope, anyway

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[Dull Tools]

Spoiler

Last episode, we had Andrew talking to Jaz and Evie to point the finger at Harry, with Jaz guardedly giving some agreement. If Andrew gets the opportunity to talk more frankly with Jaz, that could firm-up. Evie knows the crosshairs are on her and you'd hope she'd be canny enough to latch onto any talk of targeting a different player.

Surely, when it comes to the final crunch, Jaz won't stay sat on his hands and allow himself to just be picked off. Especially if Andrew pipes up against Harry (who you know will go for Andrew)

That's my hope, anyway

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Spoiler

I think that Mollie will definitely be there at the end and the other person to win will be Harry or Jaz. I think Jaz won't accept being there with Harry at the end and he will make a play at Harry. It is then down to whether Mollie goes with Jaz or sticks with Harry.

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[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Well I got about halfway through before I completely lost interest.

Probably the longest I’ve ever watched one of these reality shows, but it’s just so contrived and skewed towards the result that the producers want that there’s no sense of jeopardy, and I lost all interest in who wins, and became very bored with it all.

Decent idea in there somewhere for a show, but they should sack off this recruitment shite and just stick to the original three traitors and if they get rumbled earlier then so be it.

How is it contrived and skewed? And what result do the producers want?

I'm not disagreeing, just curious.. especially since all ex-players have said there is absolutely no interference during the show.

"Decent idea in there somewhere for a show" is also a very pompous remark given how incredibly successful and popular the show has been across a very wide demographic (and in multiple countries). I'd say it's pretty much objectively decent at this point regardless of whether it's to your taste or not. Your alternative idea could result in a 3-episode series and 19 winners sharing about £5,000.

[Schmarn]

The only interference as such is that the organisers do unilaterally decide whether the traitors can recruit and also they sometimes say there can’t be a murder. So one favours the traitors and one hurts them.

I thought the only unfair tipping of the scales was Miles who was badly exposed once they gave Diane the chance to tell everyone who gave her a drink.

[Craig S]

The only interference as such is that the organisers do unilaterally decide whether the traitors can recruit and also they sometimes say there can’t be a murder. So one favours the traitors and one hurts them.

I thought the only unfair tipping of the scales was Miles who was badly exposed once they gave Diane the chance to tell everyone who gave her a drink.

I don't think it is unilateral decision, the rules are if there are 2 traitors left they can recruit or murder.
Pretty sure there was not a murder on the penultimate night in season one either and they had a meal/party instead. Think that was always going to happen

[smutchin]

Don't really buy it, no reason they couldn't say this in their bits to camera as it'd add more intrigue to the show(I get they could have and the edit didn't allow it but seems unlikely from what they are showing). Easy to say after when you've looked like an idiot.

Yeah, maybe. Also...

Spoiler

Mollie said very clearly on her piece to camera last night that she totally trusts Harry, so either she's playing the straightest of straight bats or she's genuinely hoodwinked by him.

I do hope she realises before it's too late though. The look on Craig's face in the Aussie version when he found out... felt so sorry for him.

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[smutchin]

Spoiler

Can’t decide if the lack of a murder helps or hinders the Traitors.

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Spoiler

Harry said in his piece to camera that it screwed up his plans.

Clearly he didn't watch the first series if he wasn't expecting that.

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[Only Me]

How would it work if all the traitors were gone by say, 5 or 6 episodes in though?

The producers need a traitor in there until the end and I guess realistically they'll get it (especially with recruiting) but even without recruiting this series would have one traitor left still.

If they were all found by ep 5 or 6, they could just let the winners share whatever dosh there was at that point, but tell them they’re gonna appoint another traitor for the remaining episodes, and you’re all playing for whatever dosh you win on the tasks remaining between that point and the final episode.

[filopastry]

Spoiler

Harry said in his piece to camera that it screwed up his plans.

Clearly he didn't watch the first series if he wasn't expecting that.

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Spoiler

Yes I think Jaz would have been murdered otherwise, and Harry would have been pretty safe with 2 guaranteed votes in the final 4.


As it is I think there is a path to get rid of him but Andrew will need to go after him aggressively for the first eviction, and I'm not sure he is willing to do that, the longer Harry stays in the safer is with Mollie basically guaranteed to follow his lead.

If Andrew goes after him for the first vote, Jaz could well come on board and Evie will grab any chance to survive, plus Harry being a traitor would rubbish the whole theory implicating her at the moment.

Harry still feels like the likely solo winner though.

What happens if they get down to 4 left and it's 2v2 votes?

[\spoiler]

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[Craig S]

Spoiler

Yes I think Jaz would have been murdered otherwise, and Harry would have been pretty safe with 2 guaranteed votes in the final 4.


As it is I think there is a path to get rid of him but Andrew will need to go after him aggressively for the first eviction, and I'm not sure he is willing to do that, the longer Harry stays in the safer is with Mollie basically guaranteed to follow his lead.

If Andrew goes after him for the first vote, Jaz could well come on board and Evie will grab any chance to survive, plus Harry being a traitor would rubbish the whole theory implicating her at the moment.

Harry still feels like the likely solo winner though.

What happens if they get down to 4 left and it's 2v2 votes?

[\spoiler]

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Said earlier in series if vote is level, it's toss of a coin

[Agent99]

Get on with it

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Spoiler

Mollie is an absolute fucking idiot. Why would Jaz vote to banish if he was a traitor? Moron.

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[Chris~]

Spoiler

Mollie is an absolute fucking idiot. Why would Jaz vote to banish if he was a traitor? Moron.

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Spoiler

She had to vote someone even if she didn't think either were to be fair

Show stuck the landing from nowhere haha

Jaz was a rubbish faithful, no conviction and couldn't convince anyone despite having the best evidence in the show

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[Agent99]

Some boss music in this episode