Author Topic: Taylor Swift  (Read 52342 times)

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #200 on: January 25, 2022, 04:50:55 pm »
They should co-write something together on the next Gorillaz album. Problem solved.

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Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #201 on: January 25, 2022, 04:57:45 pm »
He wasn't wrong though, Swift does use external co-writers as anyone can see by looking at the credits on her albums. Look What You Made Me Do for instance was co-written by Right Said Fred. Swift just does what she always does and set her social media flying monkeys on anyone who criticises her. Did Blur ever use external co-writers? If not them yes, it is different.

He said she didn't write her own songs. That is absolutely false. And she has every right to put the record straight.

There are plenty of examples of Swift being a lone writer in her catalogue - including a whole album she released at 20 years old. There are plenty of examples of people who have worked with her (as co-writers, producers) who have openly spoken about her song-writing abilities and their contributions to songs alongside her.

A co-writer can give the idea that someone has very little input on a song - changing a few words or sentences here and there, or bringing an idea and having a team of people create the lyrics. There is enough evidence out there to suggest that this is not Taylor Swift. And I would assume that is partly why she is angry - her lyrics are what she is most proud of.

No-one is saying she doesn't co-write with people. In her last few albums she has built an incredible relationship with Jack Antanoff and Aaron Dessner and she writes with them. Liz Rose was prominent in her earlier days on some records and Max Martin and Shellback together have worked with her. This isn't new information.

But she has an incredible body of work that was solely written by her. She has testimonies from many of these people, and others, who have worked with her who confirm how special she is and it is very much a collaboration led by Taylor.

It's just a really, really stupid thing to say in 2022 about a person most famous for her songwriting.

And then to fail to acknowledge someone correcting him. The journalist pointed out that she does write her own songs and co-writes with people too - he took that to mean she co-writes all of her songs and said it's not the same as being a songwriter.

I am delighted at the kick back - especially from those in the industry who have called him out. Absolutely no need to speak about something he knows little of. He clearly had her pegged as someone manufactured and shaped. And he clearly knows nothing of her beyond her singles - inferring her music is "endlessly upbeat". C***, please - we have spent years crying over Taylor Swift's heart-breakingly depressing and moody music.

And this quote: "A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother. I’m more attracted to that than to Taylor Swift. It’s just darker — less endlessly upbeat. Way more minor and odd. I think she’s exceptional." She co-writes with her brother. I have heard her say her brother co-writes on everything with her... but she is 'a songwriter'.

He made an absolute tit of himself.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 05:00:07 pm by Ciara (with a capital "C") »

Offline .adam

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #202 on: January 25, 2022, 04:59:15 pm »
Good Lord.

Offline tubby

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #203 on: January 25, 2022, 04:59:48 pm »
Are you her mum?
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #204 on: January 25, 2022, 05:03:53 pm »
Surely this is an argument for tomorrow?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #205 on: January 25, 2022, 05:06:01 pm »
Surely this is an argument for tomorrow?

Can’t do tomorrow, we’re out of time.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #206 on: January 25, 2022, 05:11:11 pm »
Can’t do tomorrow, we’re out of time.

Out of time? Have we reached the endgame?

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Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #207 on: January 25, 2022, 05:11:40 pm »
Ciara, if you think that was out of order you should hear what he had to say about Declan Rice.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #208 on: January 25, 2022, 05:13:50 pm »
Bring back Gwen Stefani and get rid of this absolute bore, please.

Totally agree with this
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #209 on: January 25, 2022, 05:14:45 pm »
:lmao 

If someone co-writes with an external writer then no, they aren't 'writing their own songs'. I forgot Ciara is a huge Taylor Swift stan, though. Next we'll be hearing about how Lennon and McCartney, Dylan and Mitchell would have also collaborated with Max Martin if they'd had the chance.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #210 on: January 25, 2022, 05:24:59 pm »
Ciara, if you think that was out of order you should hear what he had to say about Declan Rice.

He liked Cannonball
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #211 on: January 25, 2022, 05:25:37 pm »
Bring back Gwen Stefani and get rid of this absolute bore, please.
It’s ok to like Gwen and Taylor Andy, I do
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Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #212 on: January 25, 2022, 05:30:07 pm »
It’s ok to like Gwen and Taylor Andy, I do

Is Taylor Andy, Taylor Swifts brother that she co-writes with?  ;D

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #213 on: January 25, 2022, 05:32:48 pm »
Is Taylor Andy, Taylor Swifts brother that she co-writes with?  ;D

Would be a bit weird if brother snd sister had the same first name.

Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #214 on: January 25, 2022, 05:34:59 pm »
Would be a bit weird if brother snd sister had the same first name.

America for ye.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #215 on: January 25, 2022, 05:38:44 pm »
Is Taylor Andy, Taylor Swifts brother that she co-writes with?  ;D
Is Taylor Andy not your new TS cover band?
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Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2022, 05:40:18 pm »

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #217 on: January 25, 2022, 05:42:39 pm »
Is Taylor Andy not your new TS cover band?

JK Rowling and Graham Linehan wont be going to that gig.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #218 on: January 25, 2022, 05:46:57 pm »
He liked Cannonball

The breeders were good.

Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #219 on: January 25, 2022, 05:47:08 pm »
:lmao 

If someone co-writes with an external writer then no, they aren't 'writing their own songs'. I forgot Ciara is a huge Taylor Swift stan, though.

It's very little to do with stanning someone. Google is free. It would be very easy for someone uninformed to go online and just fact check this stuff.

There are videos of her at school talent shows as a little girl (unsigned) singing her own songs, which 8/9/10 years later made it onto records she released. There are many, many interviews with people who write with her (of which there are a select few across her catalogue - not hundreds or many dozens) detailing the experience. There are plenty of videos from her sessions where she brings a song into a studio and works with those people to tweak it or finish it.

The guy said she is not a songwriter. The facts state differently. No-one is disputing that she has written with other people.

The issue is taken with someone declaring that she isn't a songwriter. 

Next we'll be hearing about how Lennon and McCartney, Dylan and Mitchell would have also collaborated with Max Martin if they'd had the chance.

Hearing from who? Why are you distorting what I said by making stuff up? Please find me where I said any of those artists would have collaborated with Max Martin if they had the chance.

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #220 on: January 25, 2022, 05:57:25 pm »
Quoting from you above, this is what Albarn said:

Quote
That doesn’t count. I know what co-writing is. Co-writing is very different to writing. I’m not hating on anybody, I’m just saying there’s a big difference between a songwriter and a songwriter who co-writes. Doesn’t mean that the outcome can’t be really great.

He said there's a difference between writing and co-writing. Albarn has done plenty of both, writing music and collaborating on lyrics in Gorillaz, and doing the reverse in Blur, winning awards in the process. Do you think he doesn't know the difference?

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #221 on: January 25, 2022, 06:02:29 pm »
Quoting from you above, this is what Albarn said:

He said there's a difference between writing and co-writing. Albarn has done plenty of both, writing music and collaborating on lyrics in Gorillaz, and doing the reverse in Blur, winning awards in the process. Do you think he doesn't know the difference?

Think Ciara means as well as co-writing songs she has written on her own too. But he’s not really going to google it to check during an interview. And he could say he has no opinion of other songwriters if he doesn’t know for sure but it would make for a bit of a dull interview.

She needs to calm down.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #222 on: January 25, 2022, 06:02:38 pm »
He liked Cannonball

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Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #223 on: January 25, 2022, 06:03:27 pm »
Song 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shake it Off

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #224 on: January 25, 2022, 06:05:40 pm »
Song 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shake it Off
I know what you’re trying to do here Andy, and I’m not biting  :D
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Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #225 on: January 25, 2022, 06:09:06 pm »
Quoting from you above, this is what Albarn said:

He said there's a difference between writing and co-writing. Albarn has done plenty of both, writing music and collaborating on lyrics in Gorillaz, and doing the reverse in Blur, winning awards in the process. Do you think he doesn't know the difference?

Let's not forget the quote before that, which is the pertinent bit here:

She may not be to your taste, but Taylor Swift is an excellent songwriter.
She doesn’t write her own songs.

Of course she does. Co-writes some of them.
That doesn’t count. I know what co-writing is. Co-writing is very different to writing. I’m not hating on anybody, I’m just saying there’s a big difference between a songwriter and a songwriter who co-writes. Doesn’t mean that the outcome can’t be really great. And some of the greatest singers — I mean, Ella Fitzgerald never wrote a song in her life. When I sing, I have to close my eyes and just be in there. I suppose I’m a traditionalist in that sense. A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother. I’m more attracted to that than to Taylor Swift. It’s just darker — less endlessly upbeat. Way more minor and odd. I think she’s exceptional.


He did say there is a difference between writing and co-writing. Not disputing that at all.

But he also said this: She doesn’t write her own songs.

And when the journalist disputed that, told him she does whilst co-writing others, he said: That doesn’t count

And then went on to contradict himself: A really interesting songwriter is Billie Eilish and her brother. So she can be a songwriter, despite co-writing with her brother?

You can clearly see from this list of songs, how many she has written solo and with someone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_by_Taylor_Swift (the solo writes are even highlighted in purple, so it's easy to glance)

Here is the same page for Billie Eilish where you can see she has 0 solo credits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Billie_Eilish

He made is sound like Swift wrote 0 songs herself and instead relies on a team of people to write songs for her.

"She doesn't write her own songs."
"That doesn’t count."



Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #226 on: January 25, 2022, 06:09:55 pm »
I know what you’re trying to do here Andy, and I’m not biting  :D

 ;)

Offline disgraced cake

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #227 on: January 25, 2022, 06:12:12 pm »
Bring back Gwen Stefani and get rid of this absolute bore, please.

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Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #228 on: January 25, 2022, 06:15:48 pm »
Think Ciara means as well as co-writing songs she has written on her own too. But he’s not really going to google it to check during an interview. And he could say he has no opinion of other songwriters if he doesn’t know for sure but it would make for a bit of a dull interview.

She needs to calm down.

Then say nothing at all.

"Of course she does. Co-writes some of them." Is that not the point where you go 'Oh really? I wasn't aware of that...' Instead, his arrogance brushed that off. And then later, he said this in response to Swift calling him out: " i had a conversation about songwriting and sadly it was reduced to clickbait." Not 'I got that wrong - sorry' or 'I was misquoted'.

He said something untrue. A journalist corrected him. He still didn't want to know. So she publicly corrected him. As is her right when someone disparaged her in a public way.


Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #229 on: January 25, 2022, 06:18:17 pm »
snip
He says there's a difference between a songwriter and a songwriter who co-writes and then says he much prefers Billie Eilish and her brother as an example of the latter. Look at the credits for Swift's last five albums and 80-90% of the songs are written with external co-writers including almost all of her hits.

I have no idea why you're getting so worked up over what's so clearly bland, white bread music anyway. Michael Jackson and Madonna have far better back catalogues than Swift but you don't see them getting described as great songwriters because they generally co-wrote with musical collaborators. That's just the way it is.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 06:20:31 pm by Sheer Magnetism »

Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #230 on: January 25, 2022, 06:28:11 pm »
He says there's a difference between a songwriter and a songwriter who co-writes and then says he much prefers Billie Eilish and her brother as an example of the latter. Look at the credits for Swift's last five albums and 80-90% of the songs are written with external co-writers including almost all of her hits. I have no idea why you're getting so worked up over what's so clearly bland, white bread music anyway.

He said she doesn't write her own songs. Which is absolutely not true.

She is not a songwriter because she co-writes - is that what he is trying to say?

"That doesn’t count." But it counts for BE? 'He much prefers Billie Eilish and her brother as an example of the latter [a songwriter who co-writes]' So what is a songwriter in this instance?

"Co writing is very different to writing". If writing is different to someone penning a song in its entirety solo, then what is it?

You opinion of the music 'bland, white bread' isn't relevant to this discussion. People are absolutely fine to not like her, her music or her voice. It's not a big deal.

Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #231 on: January 25, 2022, 06:34:22 pm »
Michael Jackson and Madonna have far better back catalogues than Swift but you don't see them getting described as great songwriters because they generally co-wrote with musical collaborators. That's just the way it is.

In a 40/50 year(?) career, I can see she has written 12 songs herself. Maybe that's why she isn't thought of as a great songwriter?

And Michael Jackson is known as a phenomenal songwriter, surely? Both as a collaborator and soloist.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #232 on: January 25, 2022, 06:50:19 pm »
Then say nothing at all.

"Of course she does. Co-writes some of them." Is that not the point where you go 'Oh really? I wasn't aware of that...' Instead, his arrogance brushed that off. And then later, he said this in response to Swift calling him out: " i had a conversation about songwriting and sadly it was reduced to clickbait." Not 'I got that wrong - sorry' or 'I was misquoted'.

He said something untrue. A journalist corrected him. He still didn't want to know. So she publicly corrected him. As is her right when someone disparaged her in a public way.



Maybe he just took “Of course she does. Co-writes some of them” as the journo saying she co-writes them and he didn’t understand.

Ultimately it’s like Les Ferdinand saying something a bit incorrect about Christian Pulisic and American soccer fans taking it too much to heart.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #233 on: January 25, 2022, 07:14:29 pm »
Maybe he just took “Of course she does. Co-writes some of them” as the journo saying she co-writes them and he didn’t understand.

Ultimately it’s like Les Ferdinand saying something a bit incorrect about Christian Pulisic and American soccer fans taking it too much to heart.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #234 on: January 25, 2022, 07:35:35 pm »
In a 40/50 year(?) career, I can see she has written 12 songs herself. Maybe that's why she isn't thought of as a great songwriter?

And Michael Jackson is known as a phenomenal songwriter, surely? Both as a collaborator and soloist.

Michael Jackson wrote nearly every lyric he ever sung, mostly on his own.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #235 on: January 25, 2022, 07:41:03 pm »
Eh, she doesn't make art

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #236 on: January 25, 2022, 08:49:28 pm »
I genuinely didn’t know Taylor Swift had a RAWK account until today.

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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #237 on: January 25, 2022, 09:10:52 pm »
RAWK AOTY winner 2020. The RAWK hive has a short memory!
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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #238 on: January 25, 2022, 09:33:54 pm »
Michael Jackson wrote nearly every lyric he ever sung, mostly on his own.
News to Rod Temperton that, who must be wondering why he keeps getting those royalty cheques.
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Re: Taylor Swift
« Reply #239 on: January 25, 2022, 10:25:22 pm »

Ultimately it’s like Les Ferdinand saying something a bit incorrect about Christian Pulisic and American soccer fans taking it too much to heart.


Think it's more akin to a footballer being asked about another player and saying "He takes PEDs"

It's damaging to her reputation, which she's built as a singer-songwriter.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"