Topic: 2017 FIFA Confederations Cup in Russia (17th June - 2nd July)

[Red-Soldier]

I don't see how you can refine a replay and a referees brain though. The issue we had tonight was the ref actually viewed a replay and got the decision wrong. That should never happen, if you have the ability to see a replay and get 99 right and 1 wrong then it's still unacceptable. Then you have a situation where someone goes down in the box and the VAR doesn't even have the opportunity to review the situation because the referee hasn't chosen to review it.

The refs need getting rid of, not VAR.

[lamonti]

need to bin that video bollocks though....open to so much abuse and wastes so much time its a non-starter

It's fully the worst thing in the whole of football. So many people standing around - players and supporters – while refs run around looking at iPads, who are then determined to make a new call with it, even though they've already refereed the incident, with absolutely no protocols apparently laid out for its use. It's a complete fucking shit show.

[bryanod]

It's fully the worst thing in the whole of football. So many people standing around - players and supporters – while refs run around looking at iPads, who are then determined to make a new call with it, even though they've already refereed the incident, with absolutely no protocols apparently laid out for its use. It's a complete fucking shit show.

FIFA have long been against the idea of video replay, so now I'm wondering did they purposely put oiut this ridiculously stupid version of it so people would moan so much that they can say - see we told you.

[Rush 82]

Luddites

VAR is here to stay - get used to it.

[oojason]

too much cheap 'journalism' in the media these days - especially given the stick Bellerin got for wearing a medal after losing in a Final - and not too many mentions for this...


Arsenal's Hector Bellerin donated £19,050 to the British Red Cross - for those affected by the Grenfell Tower fire - by pledging £50 for every minute he played in the 2017 Confederation Cup - https://twitter.com/HectorBellerin/status/881466949405945857

Gary Lineker just matched Bellerin's donation - https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/881917794283118592

https://twitter.com/BritishRedCross

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Said it before, use video tech, leave the referral (2 each) to the managers. You leave it to the ref, it's a start down a slippery slope.

[Djozer]

too much cheap 'journalism' in the media these days - especially given the stick Bellerin got for wearing a medal after losing in a Final - and not too many mentions for this...


Arsenal's Hector Bellerin donated £19,050 to the British Red Cross - for those affected by the Grenfell Tower fire - by pledging £50 for every minute he played in the 2017 Confederation Cup - https://twitter.com/HectorBellerin/status/881466949405945857

Gary Lineker just matched Bellerin's donation - https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/881917794283118592

https://twitter.com/BritishRedCross

Very well done to them both. Lineker's always seemed like a decent sort, and know very little about Bellerin other than he's quick as fuck (rapid, has pace, whatever) but fair play to the lad.

[dalarr]

Said it before, use video tech, leave the referral (2 each) to the managers. You leave it to the ref, it's a start down a slippery slope.

what about one each? Either way, I agree with you. Leave it to the managers.

[4pool]

Said it before, use video tech, leave the referral (2 each) to the managers. You leave it to the ref, it's a start down a slippery slope.

Managers are to emotional to decide when to use their one challenge or two challenges.

It works in the NFL because there is a team of coaches in the booth watching the replays and can buzz the manager to challenge a call.

There are no coaches with the ability to buzz a football/soccer manager and say challenge that one.


As an example, the call that didn't go Chile's way regarding the shove. The manager challenges, the ref looks , and the ref decides it's not a strong enough push to stop the player from going for his header, and decides he got the call right the first time.

Refs are not going to over rule themselves using VAR unless it really is a blatant thing they missed.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Managers are to emotional to decide when to use their one challenge or two challenges.

It works in the NFL because there is a team of coaches in the booth watching the replays and can buzz the manager to challenge a call.

There are no coaches with the ability to buzz a football/soccer manager and say challenge that one.


As an example, the call that didn't go Chile's way regarding the shove. The manager challenges, the ref looks , and the ref decides it's not a strong enough push to stop the player from going for his header, and decides he got the call right the first time.

Refs are not going to over rule themselves using VAR unless it really is a blatant thing they missed.

That's exactly what I want though: it's the blatant misses that need to be rectified, no need to revisit every incident with a degree of doubt.

If you leave it to the ref, the differing judgement calls, interpretation, and verging into stupid / sinister territory: not revisiting a decision that blatantly requires help due to being incompetent / in the pocket of some party, and ultimately, you have no control over the time used for it from game to game as it depends on each ref. The last bit could wreck the game as a spectacle.

If you give the calls to the watching manager instead of the guy running around all game, to be then decided say by the 4th official (qualified ref) once referred rather than the match referee, start conservatively with one each as dalarr suggested, if necessary go to two - you control the flow, the time used, you can aim for consistency. You know, at most, we'll like lose say 2 minutes a game, 1 minute a call, move on.

Ultimately, the target should be to correct blatant misjudgements imo. If you work to the target of wanting to check up anything with a degree of doubt, you'll completely wreck the game as a fluid spectacle. The fluidity is one of football's greatest assets, unlike a few other major sports.

[4pool]

That's exactly what I want though: it's the blatant misses that need to be rectified, no need to revisit every incident with a degree of doubt.

If you leave it to the ref, the differing judgement calls, interpretation, and verging into stupid / sinister territory: not revisiting a decision that blatantly requires help due to being incompetent / in the pocket of some party, and ultimately, you have no control over the time used for it from game to game as it depends on each ref. The last bit could wreck the game as a spectacle.

If you give the calls to the watching manager instead of the guy running around all game, to be then decided say by the 4th official (qualified ref) once referred rather than the match referee, start conservatively with one each as dalarr suggested, if necessary go to two - you control the flow, the time used, you can aim for consistency. You know, at most, we'll like lose say 2 minutes a game, 1 minute a call, move on.

Ultimately, the target should be to correct blatant misjudgements imo. If you work to the target of wanting to check up anything with a degree of doubt, you'll completely wreck the game as a fluid spectacle. The fluidity is one of football's greatest assets, unlike a few other major sports.

You want blatant missed calls looked at..which means every call will get looked at. Slows the match down. Constant VAR reviews, supporters in attendance getting irritated at the stoppage of play time and again, all for  most every call to stand as called on the field.

The enthusiasm will soon run out for those who go.

Those who watch on the telly or stream it won't give a shit as they're posting away it was, no it wasn't, yes it was, imho it..yada yada yada.

The game is in the stadium NOT at home or wherever else one watches.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

No, I mean give the calls to the manager. 1 or 2 per game per manager, up to them to flag up the biggest mistakes against them. If the managers miss it, tough titty. We're not getting three blatant handball goals or three offside goals per game are we. This is the kind of stuff I mean, not a coming together in the build up or hands on shoulder during jump incident.

Maximum priority is to keep the game fluid. Giving unlimited discretion, calls to the ref and letting him make the 2nd decision after review is very poor execution.

[4pool]

No, I mean give the calls to the manager. 1 or 2 per game per manager, up to them to flag up the biggest mistakes against them. If the managers miss it, tough titty. We're not getting three blatant handball goals or three offside goals per game are we. This is the kind of stuff I mean, not a coming together in the build up or hands on shoulder during jump incident.

Maximum priority is to keep the game fluid. Giving unlimited discretion, calls to the ref and letting him make the 2nd decision after review is very poor execution.

Just like the NFL...it never stops with---give the manager one flag to use to go to the VAR.

It won't JUST be used for offsides or goal challenges, what about Red cards? Managers will think a tackle is over the top and want the ref to look again. What about second yellows against elbows at Man utd that wasn't called which would be a red?


There are incidents in matches which can define things.


Let's say Jurgen challenges a goal against us, and VAR over turns. He's now used his one challenge. Does he keep the chance to challenge because it was successfull? You'll say yes. Ok. Jurgen then challenges an offsides against us which "might" have led to a goal as we were on a counter attack. He loses that challenge. Well, there goes his right to challenge. Late in the match, another counter attack, we score--their keeper doesn't even try to save the shot as he see's the offsides flag up. Review by the telly shows a defo onsides and the play should have continued. But Jurgen is "out" of challenges, tough shit. We lose instead of draw or we draw instead of win. Then here comes the -he should have 2 challenges. Why stop there, what about three in case of extra time?

It will become a farce when "your" side doesn't get the call, runs out of challenges, and supporters are still angry. Just like now when calls don't go our way.

The only difference is now there is VAR and calls still don't go our way but at least we get to see adverts during the match with the stop-start becoming more routine instead of a 90 minute game that flows. Whooooppeee

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

The trick here is to get rid of the you don't lose your challenge if it's successful proviso imo.

The manager gets 1 (to start with during initial implementation) call per game, that's it. Use it and you're done, whether it succeeds or not. I wouldn't go above 2, if they decide to amend in the future.

This will, most importantly cap the time used for the entire process per game across the board and put the onus on the manager to use his newfound powers responsibly: imagine Jose trying to waste time in the 85th minute by using his last video referral over an opposition throw in taker's technique; 5 minutes later, Mane bundles one in from a blatantly offside position. Ref misses it. Scenes.

It will take firm leadership to draw that line, and if it dissolves into your NFL example, that would be sad and wreck the game, but quite FIFA esque.

I share most of the concerns you posted there and on the other thread, mainly game flow, but just think, this way, there's a little bit of room to improve the game without fundamentally changing it. Leaving it to the ref is a killer.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Don't give the managers fuck all. the likes of Mourinho would find ways to abuse it.

Then it'd descend yet further.

It's fucking terrible on current evidence. But giving more options for the likes of Pulis and Jose to drag the game into the gutter? You must be a glutton for punishment.

Then it'll be 'Oh, I didn't really use my challenge', or 'the ref thought I wanted to use it but I didn't, I wanted to save it but he made me use it because I gestured' or some shit like that.

It spoils the flow, its unreliable and it wants to go in the bin, quickly.