Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1375827 times)

Offline Frizzo

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #320 on: January 18, 2018, 02:51:37 pm »
I don't think it's ready yet.

You've still got the whole issue of a guy in a van not having a fucking clue either.

My issue is what if your 20 yards out and through on goal but get flagged offside wrongly and don't take the shot. Or what if your flagged offside the keeper see's the lino put his flag up so doesn't bother saving it and the striker puts it away. Then it's reviewed and he was onside? But the keeper gave up because he saw the flag go Up, which way does that go.

On pens you've still got the issue of both the ref and var guy getting it wrong.


Mate if a keeper doesn't play through a flag being raised fucking ship him out.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #321 on: January 18, 2018, 02:54:56 pm »
I don't think it's ready yet.

You've still got the whole issue of a guy in a van not having a fucking clue either.

My issue is what if your 20 yards out and through on goal but get flagged offside wrongly and don't take the shot. Or what if your flagged offside the keeper see's the lino put his flag up so doesn't bother saving it and the striker puts it away. Then it's reviewed and he was onside? But the keeper gave up because he saw the flag go Up, which way does that go.

On pens you've still got the issue of both the ref and var guy getting it wrong.

In your first scenario the incorrect decision would stand because the ball doesn't end up in the back of the net. Tough luck, but no different to how it is already, and it's never been claimed that VAR is going to eliminate any and all mistakes.

In your second scenario, surely that's the keeper's own stupid fault for not playing to the whistle? I always think back to Barthez being a twat with his hand up as the striker slotted it past him.

For penalties where both the referee and the VAR guy 'get it wrong', the VAR will only overturn the referee's decision if it's very obviously wrong - I certainly don't think there was enough reason for the referee to change his original decision in the incident in yesterday's game.

I think people's major issue with VAR at the moment is that they're expecting it to make every decision correct when that simply isn't possible in game like football where the rules are in many instances open to interpretation. Where it should be used in opinion, and indeed has been used effectively, is in incidences where the on pitch officials are 100% objectively wrong such as Leicester's goal the other night.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #322 on: January 18, 2018, 02:56:37 pm »


Mate if a keeper doesn't play through a flag being raised fucking ship him out.

This ;D
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Offline Miltonred

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #323 on: January 18, 2018, 03:20:59 pm »


I think people's major issue with VAR at the moment is that they're expecting it to make every decision correct when that simply isn't possible in game like football where the rules are in many instances open to interpretation. Where it should be used in opinion, and indeed has been used effectively, is in incidences where the on pitch officials are 100% objectively wrong such as Leicester's goal the other night.
But its not just "people" mate its managers and pundits with wide exposure. Last night Conte had an example where he believed VAR would have been useful if applied, and he was right, but thems not the rules right now, so guess what, soon they will be, because the very existence of VAR is due to bowing to pressure to get calls correct - today a goal, tomorrow a throw-in.  It will happen, because it already has.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #324 on: January 18, 2018, 03:27:21 pm »
Pandora's Box is opened.

Soon we won't even have the players playing. We'll have technology running simulations of the games.

It has begun.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #325 on: January 18, 2018, 03:30:24 pm »
For me personally it is not about VAR correcting every or even a lot of decisions.

It will correct a few blatant calls. As mentioned before maybe 2% of all calls reviewed.

So the debates of is it a pen or not, is it a red card or not, will still happen. Refs will still get calls wrong in peoples opinion. VAR will side with the Ref. Calls will still be wrong. So nothings changed there.


My problem is that VAR will not stop there. There will be more and more cries of we need VAR for more incidences or to actually correct perceived "wrong" calls .

First, goal line technology.

Second, VAR to correct blatant missed situations.

Next...you name it because it won't end.

Eventually FA's will allow adverts during VAR reviews because TV companies will makes those demands if FA's, and every team in the League, wants extra money.

Maybe those following just the Premier League don't watch other leagues that much but there are already adverts popping into tv coverage during the running of the play. Not for stoppages of the play. And you know what, punters don't complain. If you want to watch the match, you put up with it.

So that is why with 1,000% certainty it will happen with the Premier League in years to come when the next tv contracts are negotiated. And as opposed to those Leagues that have it now during the actual play, the tv companies will force it in during stoppages of play such as VAR. This VAR review brought to you by Budwieser and here come the Clydedales on your screen for 15-30 seconds. Afterall a VAR review will take that long anyway, you're not missing the match. You won't complain when they do. 67 seconds for the Leicester one, so the tv companies have proof they can get an advert in without disrupting a match.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #326 on: January 18, 2018, 03:31:02 pm »
But its not just "people" mate its managers and pundits with wide exposure. Last night Conte had an example where he believed VAR would have been useful if applied, and he was right, but thems not the rules right now, so guess what, soon they will be, because the very existence of VAR is due to bowing to pressure to get calls correct - today a goal, tomorrow a throw-in.  It will happen, because it already has.

Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. I've never particularly been a fan of 'slippery slope' arguments myself. I don't think 'this is what could happen in the future' is a good enough reason to not use it at all. As far as I'm aware it isn't used for every mundane incident in other sports that have successfully introduced video technology, I don't see why football would be any different.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #327 on: January 18, 2018, 03:37:15 pm »
But its not just "people" mate its managers and pundits with wide exposure. Last night Conte had an example where he believed VAR would have been useful if applied, and he was right, but thems not the rules right now, so guess what, soon they will be, because the very existence of VAR is due to bowing to pressure to get calls correct - today a goal, tomorrow a throw-in.  It will happen, because it already has.
You may well be right but would you be opposed to a VAR type system which informs the ref immediacy when the ball goes out of play, who kicks it out of play is up to the ref to decide. were not talking refs asking for a VAR replay, just a system were we know the ball has gone out of play, can't see a problem with it myself as long as it works and the flow of play is not interrupted.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #328 on: January 18, 2018, 03:43:34 pm »
Last night Conte had an example where he believed VAR would have been useful if applied, and he was right,

What example was this?

It will happen, because it already has.

When?
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #329 on: January 18, 2018, 03:46:48 pm »
For me personally it is not about VAR correcting every or even a lot of decisions.

It will correct a few blatant calls. As mentioned before maybe 2% of all calls reviewed.

So the debates of is it a pen or not, is it a red card or not, will still happen. Refs will still get calls wrong in peoples opinion. VAR will side with the Ref. Calls will still be wrong. So nothings changed there.


My problem is that VAR will not stop there. There will be more and more cries of we need VAR for more incidences or to actually correct perceived "wrong" calls .

First, goal line technology.

Second, VAR to correct blatant missed situations.

Next...you name it because it won't end.

Eventually FA's will allow adverts during VAR reviews because TV companies will makes those demands if FA's, and every team in the League, wants extra money.

Maybe those following just the Premier League don't watch other leagues that much but there are already adverts popping into tv coverage during the running of the play. Not for stoppages of the play. And you know what, punters don't complain. If you want to watch the match, you put up with it.

So that is why with 1,000% certainty it will happen with the Premier League in years to come when the next tv contracts are negotiated. And as opposed to those Leagues that have it now during the actual play, the tv companies will force it in during stoppages of play such as VAR. This VAR review brought to you by Budwieser and here come the Clydedales on your screen for 15-30 seconds. Afterall a VAR review will take that long anyway, you're not missing the match. You won't complain when they do. 67 seconds for the Leicester one, so the tv companies have proof they can get an advert in without disrupting a match.

I've been watching football 30 years and I've never seen any game where the game has cut to an ad break. Can you advise which leagues do this?
If an ad for tyres scrolls across the bottom of the screen, without interrupting the viewing pleasure, is that really that much of a deal?
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #330 on: January 18, 2018, 03:48:15 pm »
I've been watching football 30 years and I've never seen any game where the game has cut to an ad break. Can you advise which leagues do this?

ITV in that FA Cup game against Everton :-X
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Offline Miltonred

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #331 on: January 18, 2018, 03:53:57 pm »
What example was this?

When?
To this first question.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42727541
He stated he believes the referee should have been told to review a penalty call. That's not how it works today, but given that many, if not most, would agree the referee got it wrong, how long before the VAR rules are changed to do exactly what Conte asked?

To the second question. The introduction of technology at all is the first change - goal line technology. The next step is VAR. So we are already at stage two, and debating what stage three looks like. Fordy wants line technology, someone else wants offside calls - it is slippery slope argument, but I think by definition we are already on that slope. I argue it will go a LONG way, others think it will stop more or less as is. 

The argument that other sports haven't gone crazy, is actually not at all true. Almost all sports that have the kind of rule subjectivity  that football has, have continuously adapted their technology models, and in almost every case, based on pressure to add more reasons to use it.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #332 on: January 18, 2018, 03:54:19 pm »
So in terms of how its been performing as of right now, how to people judge it? I thought the game yesterday was terrible (at chelsea).

The media response, the way the players acted, the way offside is implemented etc it was all a poor show.

they need to make it as basic as possible, and then over time look into implementing other stuff. its certainly not ready for the league I think.


and in terms of advertising etc I think its bound to fucking happen. people mention footballl has a different culture etc but footballing culture has already changed and continues to change, clubs are advertising on the training grouts, stadiums, sleeves, shirt sponsors etc

the higher wages and transfer fees go up, the more money they will try and squeeze from every avenue. (they have already milked fans enough)

Of course it's going to be iffy with it only being implemented a couple of weeks, and also it seems some way off being used in the league, as it should be.
I don't know if it worked too badly last night. I don't think there were too many calls the ref got wrong, or at least blatantly wrong where the VAR had to intervene.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #333 on: January 18, 2018, 03:55:33 pm »
ITV in that FA Cup game against Everton :-X

That was just an outage rather than an ad break wasn't it? Didn't the screen just go black as the shot was being taken then come back on as they were celebrating?
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #334 on: January 18, 2018, 03:58:36 pm »
That was just an outage rather than an ad break wasn't it? Didn't the screen just go black as the shot was being taken then come back on as they were celebrating?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/4518151/ITV-cuts-to-advert-as-Everton-score-winner-in-cup-tie-two-minutes-before-end.html

Wasn't being serious either way, your point that it isn't something that happens is true.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #335 on: January 18, 2018, 04:02:07 pm »
To this first question.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42727541
He stated he believes the referee should have been told to review a penalty call. That's not how it works today, but given that many, if not most, would agree the referee got it wrong, how long before the VAR rules are changed to do exactly what Conte asked?

The fact you said 'many, if not most' is enough for it not to be reviewed. It wasn't clear and obvious, as in Pedro's case, therefore shouldn't be reviewed, and fingers crossed that's the way it stays.

To the second question. The introduction of technology at all is the first change - goal line technology. The next step is VAR. So we are already at stage two, and debating what stage three looks like. Fordy wants line technology, someone else wants offside calls - it is slippery slope argument, but I think by definition we are already on that slope. I argue it will go a LONG way, others think it will stop more or less as is. 

The argument that other sports haven't gone crazy, is actually not at all true. Almost all sports that have the kind of rule subjectivity  that football has, have continuously adapted their technology models, and in almost every case, based on pressure to add more reasons to use it.

Just to be clear, I still stand by my vote in this thread, I voted for no. But it seems most arguments raised in the thread are for 'what might happen.' Other leagues have had it for a year or two. Have they advanced to using it for deciding silly things like throw ins?
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #336 on: January 18, 2018, 04:04:31 pm »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/4518151/ITV-cuts-to-advert-as-Everton-score-winner-in-cup-tie-two-minutes-before-end.html

Wasn't being serious either way, your point that it isn't something that happens is true.

I seem to have blocked out pretty much all of that game bar the ball about to hit the net  :D
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #337 on: January 18, 2018, 04:06:50 pm »
Just to be clear, I still stand by my vote in this thread, I voted for no. But it seems most arguments raised in the thread are for 'what might happen.' Other leagues have had it for a year or two. Have they advanced to using it for deciding silly things like throw ins?
Fair enough Barney, but a year or two isn't really a long enough timeframe to my mind, not for a game that's been played just fine on its own, for centuries.

I'll bow out. The argument is binary, nobody can add anything new, and I lost already.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #338 on: January 18, 2018, 04:07:58 pm »
To this first question.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42727541
He stated he believes the referee should have been told to review a penalty call. That's not how it works today, but given that many, if not most, would agree the referee got it wrong, how long before the VAR rules are changed to do exactly what Conte asked?

To the second question. The introduction of technology at all is the first change - goal line technology. The next step is VAR. So we are already at stage two, and debating what stage three looks like. Fordy wants line technology, someone else wants offside calls - it is slippery slope argument, but I think by definition we are already on that slope. I argue it will go a LONG way, others think it will stop more or less as is. 

The argument that other sports haven't gone crazy, is actually not at all true. Almost all sports that have the kind of rule subjectivity  that football has, have continuously adapted their technology models, and in almost every case, based on pressure to add more reasons to use it.
;D Thanks very much m8, I never argued for line technology, you said it was a cert to happen so I gave a suggestion which might be acceptable to people if they want it.
I think VAR should only be used for important decisions. it's not about getting every decision right for me, it's about getting rid of all the bad decisions that effect the result of a game.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #339 on: January 18, 2018, 04:10:18 pm »
Liverpool - WBA FA Cup tie 4th Round to have VAR.

Should be fun

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #340 on: January 18, 2018, 04:10:58 pm »
Liverpool - WBA FA Cup tie 4th Round to have VAR.

Should be fun

Fucks sake. Genuinely almost glad I can't make it now

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #341 on: January 18, 2018, 04:13:05 pm »
;D Thanks very much m8, I never argued for line technology, you said it was a cert to happen so I gave a suggestion which might be acceptable to people if they want it.
I think VAR should only be used for important decisions. it's not about getting every decision right for me, it's about getting rid of all the bad decisions that effect the result of a game.

They talk about getting that extra 2% of decisions right, although it doesn't sound much, its what those 2% are worth in importance. And by all accounts it could be that these decisions are the ones that could get somebody the title or relegate somebody

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #342 on: January 18, 2018, 04:20:00 pm »
not for a game that's been played just fine on its own, for centuries.

Another horrendous argument.

Do you really think there have been no changes to the rules or equipment or refereeing for centuries?

The game "has been played fine on its own" because it's continually changing and evolving.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #343 on: January 18, 2018, 04:25:45 pm »
Another horrendous argument.

Do you really think there have been no changes to the rules or equipment or refereeing for centuries?

The game "has been played fine on its own" because it's continually changing and evolving.
No I don't think that.
That is what is known as a strawman argument.

Do you have any other questions?


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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #344 on: January 18, 2018, 04:32:22 pm »
They talk about getting that extra 2% of decisions right, although it doesn't sound much, its what those 2% are worth in importance. And by all accounts it could be that these decisions are the ones that could get somebody the title or relegate somebody
It's not hard to believe many teams haven't been relegated due to awful ref decisions.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #345 on: January 18, 2018, 04:33:19 pm »
No I don't think that.
That is what is known as a strawman argument.

Do you have any other questions?

Ok great. So you accept that the game itself and the way it's refereed has constantly changed for centuries?

Saying it's been "fine on its own" implies that it hasn't been interfered with. Surely?

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #346 on: January 18, 2018, 05:30:52 pm »
The issue for me with VAR is not how it's operated, but that it creates two different codes of the game that requires two different set of refereeing processes.

The beauty of the game before VAR is that the 17 laws of the game are the same 17 laws for Liverpool vs City as they are for Ragball Rovers U12 vs Second-Hand Jerseys Athletic U12. If you dropped a PL ref into a youth 11v11 game, they wouldn't have to make any real adjustments to the actual refereeing of the game (i.e. the 17 laws), and vice versa. But with VAR, the new referee is now written into the rules. But clearly other levels don't have access to VAR. So that means that there will need to be a second set of game laws that refer to the VAR process, and whatever evolutions might happen because of it (sub rules for a start - does the ref allow subs on a VAR stoppage? If they bow to inevitable manager pressure and allow manager challenges, then that changes the set of rules for managers who don't have games under VAR). Essentially, this will be creating a "professional" and an "amateur" code, with different rules. Once that happens, we're open to a "closed shop" system, where non-league/semi-pro/amateur clubs are then shut out from the "Professional" system. But that's a broad-scope vision of what might happen ;D Right now, my only reservation with it is that it changes the game from a "game-for-all" to "two slightly different games, with slightly different rules, based on non-football resources available"

VAR only exists because there are TV cameras. It doesn't exist to "better the overall game". It only exists to better the televised game. For me, that's very much against the spirit of what the game has always been about - a game for players to play, relatively unencumbered, and relatively free-flowing with minimal time-stoppages.

VAR makes football into NFL, where TV becomes the evolution-leader, and not the needs of the players.
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Offline 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #347 on: January 18, 2018, 06:36:17 pm »
I've been watching football 30 years and I've never seen any game where the game has cut to an ad break. Can you advise which leagues do this?
If an ad for tyres scrolls across the bottom of the screen, without interrupting the viewing pleasure, is that really that much of a deal?

I didn't say cut to an ad break...I said Adverts appear during the match.

Watch Liga MX ( Mexican League). As an example you can see Tecate beer logo come across the screen and stop. Not on a crawl along the bottom. Not next to the upper left clock and score box. But accross the screen. Accompanied by a screaming bird sound . Then a bit of picture advert. Then the logo goes back across the screen and out of view. All during running action on the pitch. Not during stoppages of play.

I've streamed some matches in Brazil and Argentina and also think similar happens there.
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Offline The Final Third

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #348 on: January 22, 2018, 04:46:18 pm »
FIFA executive Philippe Le Floc'h says VAR is going to be used at the next World Cup.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #349 on: January 22, 2018, 05:40:57 pm »
On German Sky TV they move the action (picture)  up and to the right to accommodate adverts at the bottom and the left hand side about three or four times a half. You can still see the action but it pisses me off anyway. Their commentators are continuously pushing their own products, Sky Cinema, Sky Apps etc and encouraging people to get their friends or family to "Join sky" This is a paid for service and the bastards still take the Piss.
As for the Video Referee, it's been on the go here in Germany from the start of this season, I am not a fan and mistakes have been made. I think in future the players will cotton on to the whole idea and encourage the ref to be looking at more and more, as long as it is to their advantage. That in itself will change the game if these changes are adopted piecemeal. A slippery slope if you ask me.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #350 on: January 22, 2018, 05:43:59 pm »
FIFA executive Philippe Le Floc'h says VAR is going to be used at the next World Cup.

No Floc'hing surprise there, then.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #351 on: January 22, 2018, 07:18:44 pm »
FIFA executive Philippe Le Floc'h says VAR is going to be used at the next World Cup.

Philippe Le Flo'ch sounds like a character name for 'Allo 'Allo rejected for bring a bit too obvious.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #352 on: January 27, 2018, 08:07:59 pm »
Best invention ever ;)

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #353 on: January 27, 2018, 08:09:11 pm »
I guess we're in favour of it...for now. :P
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #354 on: January 27, 2018, 08:11:07 pm »
And now a word from our sponsers.....

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #355 on: January 27, 2018, 08:13:21 pm »
Fuck it off.
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Offline Narwin Dunez

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #356 on: January 27, 2018, 08:14:11 pm »
It's fucking ruined this game.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #357 on: January 27, 2018, 08:14:16 pm »
this is ridiculous ...

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #358 on: January 27, 2018, 08:15:05 pm »
Takes too long.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #359 on: January 27, 2018, 08:15:43 pm »
It’s shite in its current form.
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