Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[AmSeeker]

We will still need track and trace for the new variants that may bypass the vaccines in the future, so it's vital they change this, rather than plodding on.

[BobPaisley3]

I wonder if there will be any data published in the coming weeks about those who’ve been vaccinated but later test positive.

[classycarra]

Never once mentioned the fantastic brave work our public health workers are doing. They are a credit. Not sure why you've bought them into the discussion.

You did. What do you think "the scientists" that you referred to are working on if not public health? Chris Witty is too. Health Protection teams are (and they make up the most vital part of the contact tracing system you railed against, dealing with the most complex outbreak situation). The modellers who modelled the CFR of the virus, who modelled the effectiveness of interventions, who recommended the lockdowns that were deferred in March and ignored in September. The leaders who you think should have relinquished their expertise and let their positions be taken up by potential yes-men, they're public health workers you criticised too. You mentioned different facets of public health workers responsibilities repeatedly.

Had we clearly identified (as the rest of the world had) the dangers of the virus - which was clearly obvious - we could have locked down and been spared the horrendous problems we have had.

2 million people around the world are dead now, but you think only the UK made mistakes? It's possible to clearly identify danger but not successfully mitigate it - it's not mutually exclusive. I tihnk that probably sums up our planet right about now. Can you please give some evidence that the risks of the virus were incorrectly identified?

From my recollection, British scientists and researchers have had their early research from very limited data (incomplete from wuhan, and built from limited 'natural experiments' like cruise ship outbreaks. What did you identify that they didnt?

[Black Bull Nova]

I let the dogs out the other night in the cold and I stood outside and watched my breath swirl and rise as the droplets hit the cold and realised just how much we exhale every few seconds. Next time it is cold, watch your breath and imagine if this breath was infected just how much you can spread just by existing near someone. 2 metres seemed not enough I would say.

[Shankly998]

So what do people think did the virus escape from the Wuhan lab?

[Black Bull Nova]

What did you identify that they didnt?

1. The only scientific thing I observed was that, of the 5 countries with most deaths, 3 had knobheads as leaders (USA, Brazil and UK). That seems a real correlation to me.

2. Japan is an advanced industrial nation, an Island just of a busy continent with an economy interdependent with the rest of the world. They have had less than 5,000 deaths from a population of 125m, we are pushing 90,000 from a population of 67m, I suppose that might mean something as well. Could there be a link somehow with 1 above?

[AmSeeker]

We can only hope our vaccine efforts succeed.

[classycarra]

The only scientific thing I observed was that, of the 5 countries with most deaths, 3 had knobheads as leaders (USA, Brazil and UK). That seems a real correlation to me.

Japan is an advanced industrial nation, an Island just of a busy continent with an economy interdependent with the rest of the world. They have had less than 5,000 deaths from a population of 125m, we are pushing 90,000 from a population of 67m, I suppose that might mean something as well.

I was talking about the idea that the dangers weren't identified, which was nonsense, not disagreeing that the response could and should have been better.

Still think it's important to recognise the role that structural and social inequalities, along with strategic underfunding of the public health and healthcare systems in this country in the past ten years has played as big a role as any (aside from unforgivable failures to financially support people self isolating and listen to the governments scientists in September and not having the rapid 'firebreak'). If people focus only on the previous year alone, they aren't going to understand the causes of the high number of deaths in the UK.

[classycarra]

If you believe SAGE have come out of this blameless then that's your opinion. My opinion is our leading scientific community have made huge catastrophic errors throughout - be it not understanding the brutality of the virus, their projections, late lockdown, borders, etc

-snip-

We can all agree not one element of our response to this has been good. We can only hope our vaccine efforts succeed.

You haven't really addressed the points I was making, and have repeated yourself with claims that aren't backed up with evidence.

You bizarrely think people weren't looking at Wuhan, despite the many dozen research articles, official reports, official minutes that show that they were. You bizarrely think SAGE didn't think the virus was brutal despite their modelling and evidence forcing the government into the first lockdown when they warned COVID would kill hundreds of thousands of us if they didn't. Now you've said 'their projections' - can you elaborate on what projections you're even talking about please?

Oh and you've also totally made up a position that I've never once said, in your very first sentence.

By the way, when you compared UK's deaths to our neighbours, but ignored France because it didn't help your point? That's called cherry picking. 

You might not think there have been any elements of the response at all that have been good, but I think those aware of the work that goes into public health wouldn't be so heartless in their assessment of how our public health workers/scientists have worked tirelessly in the last year. For our benefit, despite an often hostile public.

[jameslfc1997]

So what do people think did the virus escape from the Wuhan lab?

It seems so doesn't it. Will we ever find out the truth though, I doubt it. They will only show the WHO what they want them to see.

[djahern]

So what do people think did the virus escape from the Wuhan lab?

Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

[Andy82lfc]

Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

Só in summary, stop allowing the import and eating of the dead flesh of exotic/rare animals in obscene conditions. (Spoiler: that won’t happen.)

[BarryCrocker]

1. The only scientific thing I observed was that, of the 5 countries with most deaths, 3 had knobheads as leaders (USA, Brazil and UK). That seems a real correlation to me.

I noticed that Brazil rushed through approval of Coronavac vaccine from China which only has a 50% efficacy.

Israel has deemed the 4.5m Palestinians in the illegally occupied territories to not be a priority over Israeli citizens when it comes to getting out the vaccine. Apparently, the Palestinian Authority are responsible for these people.

[No666]

Só in summary, stop allowing the import and eating of the dead flesh of exotic/rare animals in obscene conditions. (Spoiler: that won’t happen.)

If it were well publicised possibly it would have an effect on consumption and cultural old wives tales about consuming these animals.

[BarryCrocker]

Of course Ireland is seriously fcked when it comes to making decisions about their sovereign borders. 3k cases per day.

The Government will consider implementing a stricter regime for inwardbound travellers amid growing concern about new strains of the coronavirus.

There have been 1,500 arrivals from Brazil in the past two weeks and those travellers have now been asked by the Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly to contact a GP, get a coronavirus test and restrict their movements.

Government sources have said that Ministers will this week discuss all aspects of travel regulations in light of concerns about new Covid-19 strains from the UK, South Africa and Brazil.

Sources have said that while it would be legally complex, they cannot rule out implementing a stricter regime on inward-bound travellers to make it mandatory to quarantine for 14 days in a hotel.

[rob1966]

Over 70's start getting contacted today. My stepdad and his neighbours, who I have known since I was 18, will be first in line as they are almost 80. Buzzing knowing he'll be getting his first dose soon.

[Crosby Nick]

Over 70's start getting contacted today. My stepdad and his neighbours, who I have known since I was 18, will be first in line as they are almost 80. Buzzing knowing he'll be getting his first dose soon.

Do they do it by age within the brackets, or is it pot luck? My mum turned 70 last week.

[rob1966]

Do they do it by age within the brackets, or is it pot luck? My mum turned 70 last week.

There are two groups, group 3 is the 75 and over and then group 4 is 70 and over, so he will be in grp 3 and your Mum in grp 4.

No idea if they just deliver the vaccines to each region and they get on with it. So as en extreme example, if someone lives in an area where they need to do 40,000 vaccinations and 35,000 are under 75, then an under 75 would be done before a 77 yr old in an area with 40,000 but 30,000 are over 78. The good news is, all these people are only looking at weeks now.

[Motty]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-mark-drakeford-19645075.amp

So Drakeford would rather give out the vaccine slowly until we get more doses instead of getting as many done in as short a time all so the workers in the vaccination centres aren't standing around doing nothing? Yeah let more people contract Covid because they weren't vaccinated early enough just so people aren't bored sitting on their arses, makes perfect sense that [emoji849]

[Wabaloolah]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-mark-drakeford-19645075.amp

So Drakeford would rather give out the vaccine slowly until we get more doses instead of getting as many done in as short a time all so the workers in the vaccination centres aren't standing around doing nothing? Yeah let more people contract Covid because they weren't vaccinated early enough just so people aren't bored sitting on their arses, makes perfect sense that

Yep it's an odd one, the question I would be asking though is why haven't Wales received enough of the Oxford Vaccine?  Johnson playing politics with people's lives?


Edit, it seems it is an issue with one batch of the Oxford vaccine failing the regulators approval so 26,000 doses down this week but this batch should arrive next week


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-doses-delay-19644872

[Lee1-6Liv]

Nice to see the Irish Times trying to kick up a fuss because a hospital in Dublin vaccinated 16 staff relatives instead of wasting the vaccine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coombe-hospital-chief-deeply-regrets-that-staff-relatives-were-given-covid-vaccines-1.4460733

[Red Beret]

Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

Probably, as you describe, it was likely first observed in clusters around July 2019. Maybe brought in and cultivated for study; perhaps then poor procedures or containment or carelessness caused it to escape. It's all pointless speculation, but it wouldn't be the first time a situation has been made worse due to lax procedures or poor handling.

[Guz-kop]

Not sure if we’ll ever get an answer to that. What’s becoming more clear though is that the seafood market in Wuhan was most likely not the site of the initial outbreak and merely just the first example of a superspreading event with this virus. Of the initial 50 hospitalisations with covid, a substantial number had no contact with the market (though of course many did so the initial thoughts were it originated there).

Current thinking is that this coronavirus jumped from bats to pangolins, back to bats and then to humans. Though there may be a missing link between that final jump from bats to humans. Finding that link could be key to figuring out where and when this might have started spreading in humans.

The possibility is there that the bat to pangolin and back to bat had occurred a while ago. And that the final bat to human could have occurred in a research setting. There’s a theory that it may also have been spreading at a low level for many months although went unnoticed as it was it was less lethal. Genetic analysis so far suggests that a change in the virus doesn’t support that. It doesn’t rule out that it was spreading at a low level for months though and went unnoticed until clusters of pneumonia were seen due to distinct super spreading events like the seafood market. I would think that it was spreading for a while in Wuhan in the later months of 2019. Did it come from a lab leak? I’m not sure, I’d put myself at 70/30 that it didn’t at the moment.

I don't know enough about the virology side of things but would be surprised if it was circulating as mild disease and then suddenly there was variation enough to cause such a change in clinical picture. Anyone who has vaguely looked after patients with viral pneumonia before will agree the illness caused by covid 19 is quite distinct so to suddenly go from mild to that would be, I would've thought, unlikely . But I dunno

[west_london_red]

I don't know enough about the virology side of things but would be surprised if it was circulating as mild disease and then suddenly there was variation enough to cause such a change in clinical picture. Anyone who has vaguely looked after patients with viral pneumonia before will agree the illness caused by covid 19 is quite distinct so to suddenly go from mild to that would be, I would've thought, unlikely . But I dunno

The problem with any possible scenario is the secrecy of the Chinese government, it’s not exactly open and honest about what goes on so, don’t forget they tried to suppress the very exist of the virus at first, so wouldn’t put anything past them in terms of how long the virus has been in circulation, never mind anything more sinister.

[No666]

Don't know if this has been posted but just sent the link by the Covid-19 Vaccine Research Registry, and it's a good simple thing to show anyone who says they are worried the vaccine has been rushed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIsvIWJ5u4&t&_cldee=bG91ZXR0ZUBpbmt5cG90LmNvbQ%3D%3D&recipientid=lead-742f640ad657eb11bb24000d3a86b7aa-092bcaea5928427e89142d1e39c70991&esid=652fe974-7759-eb11-a812-000d3a0cebf8

[djahern]

I don't know enough about the virology side of things but would be surprised if it was circulating as mild disease and then suddenly there was variation enough to cause such a change in clinical picture. Anyone who has vaguely looked after patients with viral pneumonia before will agree the illness caused by covid 19 is quite distinct so to suddenly go from mild to that would be, I would've thought, unlikely . But I dunno

Yea I'd agree, there's no evidence at all that supports it circulating as a less mild form. On the contrary, the lack of much genetic diversity within the original samples taken points to the opposite - that this began with a variant of SARS-CoV-2 that was identified very shortly after it began to circulate in people.

[didi shamone]

Nice to see the Irish Times trying to kick up a fuss because a hospital in Dublin vaccinated 16 staff relatives instead of wasting the vaccine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coombe-hospital-chief-deeply-regrets-that-staff-relatives-were-given-covid-vaccines-1.4460733

Ideally they wouldn't do relatives but it's way better than dumping them. Huge fuss that deflects from important news.

[AmSeeker]

Went to the opticians today in town centre - packed with pensioners who've come out in force.

Has there been any talk of what will happen to the huge numbers of illegal immigrants we have in this country and how they would get the vaccine ? The virus doesn't stay away from illegal immigrants, and surely we will need them to come into the chain too. But doesn't seem to be much talk of this.

[Motty]

Yep it's an odd one, the question I would be asking though is why haven't Wales received enough of the Oxford Vaccine?  Johnson playing politics with people's lives?


Edit, it seems it is an issue with one batch of the Oxford vaccine failing the regulators approval so 26,000 doses down this week but this batch should arrive next week


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-vaccine-wales-doses-delay-19644872

Well hopefully he uses this week to get everything set up to hit the ground running or he won't be getting 750000 done by the middle of February.

[TSC]

Went to the opticians today in town centre - packed with pensioners who've come out in force.

Has there been any talk of what will happen to the huge numbers of illegal immigrants we have in this country and how they would get the vaccine ? The virus doesn't stay away from illegal immigrants, and surely we will need them to come into the chain too. But doesn't seem to be much talk of this.

What are these ‘huge numbers of illegal immigrants’?

[So… Howard Philips]

Probably, as you describe, it was likely first observed in clusters around July 2019. Maybe brought in and cultivated for study; perhaps then poor procedures or containment or carelessness caused it to escape. It's all pointless speculation, but it wouldn't be the first time a situation has been made worse due to lax procedures or poor handling.

The last recorded death from smallpox happened in Birmingham in 1978 because of leakage in a lab.

[reddebs]

Went to the opticians today in town centre - packed with pensioners who've come out in force.

Has there been any talk of what will happen to the huge numbers of illegal immigrants we have in this country and how they would get the vaccine ? The virus doesn't stay away from illegal immigrants, and surely we will need them to come into the chain too. But doesn't seem to be much talk of this.

Do you mean those in detention centres waiting for legal status to stay or do you mean those who work here from the EU that haven't yet applied for residency?

Either way I can't see there being that many of them over 70/80/90 who so far are the ones being vaccinated.

[Barneylfc∗]

Went to the opticians today in town centre - packed with pensioners who've come out in force.

Has there been any talk of what will happen to the huge numbers of illegal immigrants we have in this country and how they would get the vaccine ? The virus doesn't stay away from illegal immigrants, and surely we will need them to come into the chain too. But doesn't seem to be much talk of this.

On a brighter note - excellent primary school nearby which has always been horrendously difficult to get into, has spaces available due a large volume of europeans who haven't come back / returned home. Sister got a place for her child today !

Suppose it was this sort of benefit that people could feel in their everyday lives that was fuel to Brexit.

I smell a rat

[So… Howard Philips]

I smell a rat

A theme is starting to develop?

[fowlermagic]

I may have misheard a newscaster on the radio yesterday but any tourism based on international travelers this year is pretty much written off by the government. That pretty much means I have minimum income for two years running. Whoopty Fuckin' Doo

[TepidT2O]

I may have misheard a newscaster on the radio yesterday but any tourism based on international travelers this year is pretty much written off by the government. That pretty much means I have minimum income for two years running. Whoopty Fuckin' Doo

That’s really sad to hear.  So sorry.

[fowlermagic]

That’s really sad to hear.  So sorry.

It could be worse far worse as long as we have our health but was a tad annoyed to say the least to hear the government may be writing off international travel. You would think once vaccinations are occurring, people could get approval to travel. Its going to be a logistic nightmare but we have to start somewhere otherwise thousands of businesses relying on international tourists can shut their doors for good.

[afc tukrish]

What are these ‘huge numbers of illegal immigrants’?

Illegal ones, too. Mentioned twice, in case you missed it the first time.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Do you mean those in detention centres waiting for legal status to stay or do you mean those who work here from the EU that haven't yet applied for residency?

Either way I can't see there being that many of them over 70/80/90 who so far are the ones being vaccinated.

Perhaps he meant the reported 1.3m that left the UK recently and won’t easily be able to return, despite putting down roots, contributing to the economy and in general being upstanding members of society.  It’s a crying shame that this country has seemingly made them feel that unwelcome.

[12C]

Illegal ones, too. Mentioned twice, in case you missed it the first time.

And “huge numbers” too.