Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1076197 times)

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #800 on: May 27, 2018, 06:13:05 pm »
I have raised this issue too. Pepe regressed when Achterberg took over but has been a mainstay at Napoli, really playing well again. We bought Mignolet and Karius because they showed quality and potential at their respective clubs but none of them has improved under Achterberg. Gulacsi is playing well for Leipzig.

Contrast this to how Klopp has pretty much improved every player at his disposal and you realsie that we can blame the keepers all we want but I for one think this is a coaching issue.

Whoever we buy, there is a constant, and that is Achterberg. Unless this changes, Liverpool will remain the worst place for goal keepers to reach their potential.
i do sometimes wonder about Achterberg but there is some things that need to be addressed.
- Reina regression began under whoever Hodgson had as GK coach, in addition to that lets be honest by the time Rodgers joined Reina was in pretty crap physical condition, a lot of the decline with him was as much to do with him not increasing his intensity in training to match the ageing process. It's no surprise that Pepe has been one of the best keepers in Serie A in his second spell with Napoli because he's in absolutely fantastic nick; whereas he wasn't in his first because he wasn't.

- Gulasci wasn't ready at the time, he looked good for Tranmere but also had some really iffy games and at the same time he didn't really fit the style. He's more solid than elite for Leipzig as well.

- We've improved Mignolet quite a bit with regards to what his weakest aspect was from Sunderland, which was distribution but beyond that he was never more than a solid reactive shot stopper that suited teams that sat back and clearly you can get him to be something he's not.

- Karius has been improved on crosses but my one issue from when I used to watch clips from his time at Mainz was that whilst he was brilliant at reducing the quality of chances I did think a lot of shots were never truly pushed away, basically I couldn't but help think he had weak wrists.

What he did last night I can't really fault the goalkeeping coach on it. It's just bad goalkeeping on Karius' part.

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #801 on: May 27, 2018, 06:15:33 pm »
That’s a concern. We lost to Chelsea, Roma and Real since he left. Hope things are sorted out and he is back.

We lost games when he was here as well believe it or not.

Offline theMilkman

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #802 on: May 27, 2018, 06:27:09 pm »
Quote
The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?

We just played in a champions league final, and have more champions league football to play next season. Of course we are.

We just need more depth.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #803 on: May 27, 2018, 06:30:01 pm »
We just played in a champions league final, and have more champions league football to play next season. Of course we are.

We just need more depth.

It was a question about Klopp's tactical shape and principles of play, rather than his success outcomes, though.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #804 on: May 27, 2018, 06:30:47 pm »
https://twitter.com/Oliver__Bond/status/1000705656507322368

Don't know where to post this but fuck me I love Jurgen. Head up high with this man at the helm.

Fucking love the guy.
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #805 on: May 27, 2018, 06:41:14 pm »
win lose or draw, Jurgen Klopp is a fucking legend, no doubt about it.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #806 on: May 27, 2018, 06:46:46 pm »
win lose or draw, Jurgen Klopp is a fucking legend, no doubt about it.

Yes, cheered me right up this morning.  ;D
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Offline CS111

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #807 on: May 27, 2018, 06:49:10 pm »
Need 4 worldies this transfer window, already have Naby.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #808 on: May 27, 2018, 07:24:57 pm »




Time to go back to this I think. We typically play Mane left and the defensive winger would be on our right. Then it's TAA who occupies the RB role, but nothing really changes.

As we saw yesterday, if Salah is out, we move Mane to the striker position. It was to be expected that we used Lallana in Mane's role. We didn't have much choice, but even with everyone fit, I reckon that would have been our first option. The defence was the same and we really had no choice but to go with Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum in CM. We were missing the runner in there, the role Keita will get. Looking into next season, I don't know how we are planning to use Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner in this template. If we add that midfield sweeper ('Bender'), none of the three that started yesterday will be an automatic starter. It will be Keita, AOC and our 'Bender'. I wonder if we're considering such a change. Right now I find it hard to believe, even if I think we need a 'Bender'.

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Offline DanA

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #809 on: May 27, 2018, 11:01:16 pm »
Really if we want this squad to be ideally balanced we probably need a GK, two wingers, and a DM. The way we play we can't afford to lose any of our front three, Henderson is the only DM, and the keeper thing doesn't really need to be discussed at the minute.


                                              Allison
A.Arnold               Lovren                   Van Djik                    Robertson
                                           Henderson
                                Oxlade                Keita   
                 Salah                                          Mane
                                         Firmino
Subs: Karius, Gomez, Matip, Milner, Kondogbia, F.Anderson, Dembele           
Rotation: Clyne, Klavan, Moreno, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Solanke

Not so much about the names but more to do with the types of players. To me four people in these positions weights the squad nicely because we'd be getting a versatile defensive winger who still scores (Felipe Anderson), and attacking winger with pace who can also play striker (Dembele), a big DM (Kondogbia) that still has a range of passing and a solid keeper (Allison). It's an expensive summer but after losing Coutinho, and selling some guys like Ings, Sturridge and Mignolet and maybe a few like Kent, Ojo and Ejaria....it should be in the realm of possible.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 11:02:58 pm by DanA »
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Offline RedSince86

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #810 on: May 27, 2018, 11:19:05 pm »
Really if we want this squad to be ideally balanced we probably need a GK, two wingers, and a DM. The way we play we can't afford to lose any of our front three, Henderson is the only DM, and the keeper thing doesn't really need to be discussed at the minute.


                                              Allison
A.Arnold               Lovren                   Van Djik                    Robertson
                                           Henderson
                                Oxlade                Keita   
                 Salah                                          Mane
                                         Firmino
Subs: Karius, Gomez, Matip, Milner, Kondogbia, F.Anderson, Dembele           
Rotation: Clyne, Klavan, Moreno, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Solanke

Not so much about the names but more to do with the types of players. To me four people in these positions weights the squad nicely because we'd be getting a versatile defensive winger who still scores (Felipe Anderson), and attacking winger with pace who can also play striker (Dembele), a big DM (Kondogbia) that still has a range of passing and a solid keeper (Allison). It's an expensive summer but after losing Coutinho, and selling some guys like Ings, Sturridge and Mignolet and maybe a few like Kent, Ojo and Ejaria....it should be in the realm of possible.
Kondogbia signed for Valencia this weekend.

Diawara at Napoli looks good as a DM,fellow countryman of Naby as well.

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 11:22:46 pm by RedSince86 »
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Online Giono

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #811 on: May 27, 2018, 11:24:34 pm »
All player preferences aside, when talking about midfielders and who can/will be improved upon, I find it illogical in a Mr. Spock kind of way to lump all our midfielders together as all being poor when the midfield shows itself as dysfunctional as it did yesterday.

James Milner, likeable, professional, English....but wasn’t allowed near midfield last season and this season spent the first half mostly as a healthy scratch on the bench. He has filled in admirably and surprisingly as Gini, then Can, then Ox were taken down with illness/injury in the second half. But he is 32 and has been a pro since 17...no amount of Ribena can reverse that! So it makes sense that we will not be planning on using him a lot next season. And as has been pointed out elsewhere he has his limitations in midfield and does tend to play almost as a Winger.

Captain Hendo has virtually never been used as an 8 for two seasons. He was repositioned to the 6 role and two seasons later can anyone really say that he has taken to it like a duck to water? Energy? That could be applied in any role he has had since joining us. Has he developed match intelligence since he has had so much exposure to the 6 role with so much of the pitch laid-out before him? Not really. In his defence, he has been injured a lot over the last two seasons. But that too doesn’t work in his favour as a potential guaranteed match starter next season. Now, Klopp loves the guy and he was part of our initial resurgence into the gegen pressing machine of the 1st part of last season. But can anyone say that if we bring in a decent number 6 this summer (who isn’t a teenage prospect) to back-up Jordan, that that player will never be a starter by season’s end a la Robbo? All it will take is a couple of good starts or an injury to Hendo. Look at Gini’s 2 matches. Will Klopp actually bench a successful 6 afterwards for our returning Captain? I’m not sure.

Then there is Gini. Who was bought by Klopp to be put into midfield. Who has played almost every match since being eased into the starting line-up early last season after arriving. Klopp has played him as a an attacking 8 last season and asked him to drop back somewhat this season to help out defensively while Henderson and Clyne were out injured, forming almost a 2 with Can. He has also played in the 6 a couple of matches and even has spent time in the attacking trio, as right wingback and even as a central defender for the first time in his life. So basically, he was Klopp’s first midfield signing two seasons ago and has started virtually all matches when healthy which is almost always. Now it is asumed that with the arrival of Keita that Klopp is going back to the drawing board and declaring Gini’s purchase a failure and Gini will go to the bench or the stands to make way for Keita...despite all the evidence to the contrary?

I think we are going to see Klopp rotating midfielders next season, using horses for courses. My guess is that Milner will play less than this season and in not such important matches. And Henderson will not be automatically in the 6 spot every match and may be slowly replaced. And that Gini will play more than both of them as an 8 or as a 6 because Klopp trusts him in both roles. With Keita and a Coutinho replacement coming in, they will need another midfielder to supply them with the ball. Will they be expected to get on the end of a Milner right footed low cross from the left wing or chase a Henderson long ball into space upfield? Or will we make the best use of both of them (Ox too) by having them get quick distribution to feet as they move into the open space left by the opponents trying to get the ball off of Gini?
 
The insertion of Keita and a Coutinho replacement like Fekir will most certainly change the way our midfield is expected to play going forward.

Maybe...

Against Man City away we could bully them with:
6 Hendo, 8 Gini, 10 Ox

Against Burnley away we could blitz them with:
6 Gini, 8 Keita, 10 Fekir

Against Hoffenheim away in CL:
6 Henderson, 8 Keita, 10 Fekir

Against Bournemouth away:
6 Gini, 8 Keita, 10 Ox

And we’d be able to close out matches with a bit of foot-on-the-ball possession from an example trio of Gini, Lalalna and Keita.

Onwards and upwards.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 11:31:51 pm by Giono »
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Offline Geormajesty

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #812 on: May 28, 2018, 08:18:55 pm »

Guess we know who the 6 is. I think we're going proper 4-2-3-1 now too, not the 4-3-3 hybrid we have been playing. Keita and Fabinho are busy defensively.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 08:25:25 pm by Geormajesty »

Offline DanA

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #813 on: May 29, 2018, 03:22:21 am »
Defiantly think 4-2-3-1 is more of a chance now, particularly if we sign Fekir. But I still see 4-3-3 as our major formation, when we’re up and running it bloody brilliant and that’d be hard to let go of I reckon.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #814 on: May 29, 2018, 03:30:57 am »
Defiantly think 4-2-3-1 is more of a chance now, particularly if we sign Fekir. But I still see 4-3-3 as our major formation, when we’re up and running it bloody brilliant and that’d be hard to let go of I reckon.

I say we've been playing 4-2-3-1 all along - it just hasn't been symmetrical (and to be honest, it's only pundits and journos who need football formations to be symmetrical :D)

-------------------Karius
TAA-------Lovren-----VVD-------Scottish Nutjob
------Henderson-----Milner
--Oxlade--------Firmino----------Mane
-----------Salah

Let me rephrase that for the next season :D


-------------------Karius(?)
TAA-------Lovren-----VVD-------Scottish Nutjob
------Fabinho-----Keita
--Fekir-------Firmino----------Mane
-----------Salah
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 03:39:18 am by PhaseOfPlay »
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Offline Zoomers

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #815 on: May 29, 2018, 06:45:02 am »
I love that TAA is now in every line up I see.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #816 on: May 29, 2018, 07:26:00 am »
So, a complete replacement of the three midfielders now seems like a real possibility. I don't mind, I've be complaining about our midfield for years, but it's still a bold move.

We're also going from having very allround and quite similar midfielders, to having a couple of specialists again. This will give Klopp the tools to adapt the midfield to different opponents.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #817 on: May 29, 2018, 07:30:15 am »
So, a complete replacement of the three midfielders now seems like a real possibility. I don't mind, I've be complaining about our midfield for years, but it's still a bold move.

We're also going from having very allround and quite similar midfielders, to having a couple of specialists again. This will give Klopp the tools to adapt the midfield to different opponents.

I don't see Henderson being replaced, but competition for places is what we lack at the moment, and it looks as if we're doing something about that. Maybe Hendo will be used in advanced midfield which is more his natural position.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #818 on: May 29, 2018, 07:30:48 am »
Defiantly think 4-2-3-1 is more of a chance now, particularly if we sign Fekir. But I still see 4-3-3 as our major formation, when we’re up and running it bloody brilliant and that’d be hard to let go of I reckon.
I can't see us ditching the 4-3-3 that's been so phenomenal for us, and perfect for our front men. What I can see is us using it a lot more as an option. Like against Brighton - a way to squeeze in an extra attacker against his parkers and a way to rest Firmino by having someone like Fekir at 10 and Solanke at 9, or ditto a way to rest a wide player by playing Firmino at 10 and Solanke at 9 etc.

I could even see Keita being used in those attacking wide slots now we've signed Fabinho - not often, but as a way of employing his pressing high up the pitch and keeping some of that explosiveness/ability in tight spaces that Salah and Mane bring.
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Offline Kovai Red

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #819 on: May 29, 2018, 08:23:32 am »
Some months ago I remember POP or Babu mentioning in some thread that we should be improving on our first XI so that the current XI becomes options from the bench or something like that. Hope this signing is something like that.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #820 on: May 29, 2018, 08:31:14 am »
Some months ago I remember POP or Babu mentioning in some thread that we should be improving on our first XI so that the current XI becomes options from the bench or something like that. Hope this signing is something like that.

You'd imagine so, I doubt we'd be spending £45 million on an established player in a position we're struggling with a bit and then not put him into the first choice XI. Same with Keita

I'm still sure Hendo, Lallana, Gini and Milner will get plenty of game time and sometimes we'll see Fabinho or Keita on the bench occasionally but not often
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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #821 on: May 29, 2018, 08:33:01 am »
Some months ago I remember POP or Babu mentioning in some thread that we should be improving on our first XI so that the current XI becomes options from the bench or something like that. Hope this signing is something like that.

This should be the plan, yes? And the current XI players where there's an improvement should look towards being squad players that are actively used, as for once there's place for tactical changes due to depth of options, not due to limitations in the bench.

Amazing what a bit of stability brings to a club, and having a vision, and building patiently towards that. We're long due that, and long may it continue  :)
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Offline joekim87

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #822 on: May 29, 2018, 08:35:32 am »
I love that TAA is now in every line up I see.

Of course~ He's our very own England international, Champions League finalist and best player in his position in the League~ :)

Offline Kovai Red

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #823 on: May 29, 2018, 09:53:04 am »
This should be the plan, yes? And the current XI players where there's an improvement should look towards being squad players that are actively used, as for once there's place for tactical changes due to depth of options, not due to limitations in the bench.

Amazing what a bit of stability brings to a club, and having a vision, and building patiently towards that. We're long due that, and long may it continue  :)
Exactly. Exciting times ahead
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Offline Roger Federer

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #824 on: May 29, 2018, 10:00:52 am »
I say we've been playing 4-2-3-1 all along - it just hasn't been symmetrical (and to be honest, it's only pundits and journos who need football formations to be symmetrical :D)

-------------------Karius
TAA-------Lovren-----VVD-------Scottish Nutjob
------Henderson-----Milner
--Oxlade--------Firmino----------Mane
-----------Salah

Let me rephrase that for the next season :D


-------------------Karius(?)
TAA-------Lovren-----VVD-------Scottish Nutjob
------Fabinho-----Keita
--Fekir-------Firmino----------Mane
-----------Salah
This is more about semantics than anything, but could you not describe it as an asymmetrical 4-3-3 just as well? Salah is always the most attacking player, but he's also more often on the right side of Oxlade or Wijnaldum. And Mane is running ahead of the ball far more often than those two as well, so I'd say that he's a forward more than a midfielder in how he moves and what his qualities are. But the opposite is true of Chamberlain and Wijnaldum, or Can when he starts.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #825 on: May 29, 2018, 10:05:50 am »
Guess we know who the 6 is. I think we're going proper 4-2-3-1 now too, not the 4-3-3 hybrid we have been playing. Keita and Fabinho are busy defensively.

I can't see us changing formation. Think it will be the same.
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Offline jlb

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #826 on: May 29, 2018, 10:56:51 am »
If we get Fekir, might our shape when both him and Firmino play look something like this?

             Fabinho

         Keita
                        Fekir

             Firmino

  Salah                    Mane

A sort of diamond midfield reminiscent of the tail-end of the 13/14 season:

                   Gerrard

     Hendo     
                               Coutinho

                  Sterling

     Sturridge            Suarez

 (the front two + Sterling of course having different characteristics)

Offline DanA

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #827 on: May 29, 2018, 11:20:35 am »
I say we've been playing 4-2-3-1 all along - it just hasn't been symmetrical (and to be honest, it's only pundits and journos who need football formations to be symmetrical :D)

-------------------Karius
TAA-------Lovren-----VVD-------Scottish Nutjob
------Henderson-----Milner
--Oxlade--------Firmino----------Mane
-----------Salah

Let me rephrase that for the next season :D


-------------------Karius(?)
TAA-------Lovren-----VVD-------Scottish Nutjob
------Fabinho-----Keita
--Fekir-------Firmino----------Mane
-----------Salah

I dare say heat maps put Salah wider than Oxlade by some margin and that kind of resonates when I think about where Oxlade has picked the ball up and scored/assisted from. But I agree it's semantics.

Actually a team I think has a similar setup is Lyon. I reckon that if you looked at heat maps of Fekir vs Firmino, Salah vs Depay and Mane vs Traore it'd look very similar (except a mirror image). But I do agree that if we get him, we'll be looking to get Fekir on the field a lot more than just as backup for Firmino, it could definitely see us using the type of 4-2-3-1 setup you've put above.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #828 on: May 29, 2018, 11:31:49 am »
I dare say heat maps put Salah wider than Oxlade by some margin and that kind of resonates when I think about where Oxlade has picked the ball up and scored/assisted from. But I agree it's semantics.

Actually a team I think has a similar setup is Lyon. I reckon that if you looked at heat maps of Fekir vs Firmino, Salah vs Depay and Mane vs Traore it'd look very similar (except a mirror image). But I do agree that if we get him, we'll be looking to get Fekir on the field a lot more than just as backup for Firmino, it could definitely see us using the type of 4-2-3-1 setup you've put above.

They regularly don't. Salah's start position might be wide right, but his engagement with the ball is often inside right to central. He plays like Henry played - start on the wing, then move inside to receive. That doesn't make him a winger. Winger isn't a position, it's a role. He also often doesn't drop back to defend, which makes him our attacking depth player, which makes him the "striker".
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #829 on: May 29, 2018, 11:33:49 am »
Time to go back to this I think. We typically play Mane left and the defensive winger would be on our right. Then it's TAA who occupies the RB role, but nothing really changes.

As we saw yesterday, if Salah is out, we move Mane to the striker position. It was to be expected that we used Lallana in Mane's role. We didn't have much choice, but even with everyone fit, I reckon that would have been our first option. The defence was the same and we really had no choice but to go with Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum in CM. We were missing the runner in there, the role Keita will get. Looking into next season, I don't know how we are planning to use Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner in this template. If we add that midfield sweeper ('Bender'), none of the three that started yesterday will be an automatic starter. It will be Keita, AOC and our 'Bender'. I wonder if we're considering such a change. Right now I find it hard to believe, even if I think we need a 'Bender'.

Those three question marks in midfield, lovely to have an answer:

Fabinho.


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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #830 on: May 29, 2018, 11:41:00 am »
I feel like I've been cheated out of my depression.
NAKED BOOBERY

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #831 on: May 29, 2018, 12:20:06 pm »
I feel like I've been cheated out of my depression.

Haha, funny man :)

Yep, starting to have thoughts of smashing Madrid, IN Madrid next season. Will stop with that nonsense rapidly.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #832 on: May 29, 2018, 01:23:05 pm »
They regularly don't. Salah's start position might be wide right, but his engagement with the ball is often inside right to central. He plays like Henry played - start on the wing, then move inside to receive. That doesn't make him a winger. Winger isn't a position, it's a role. He also often doesn't drop back to defend, which makes him our attacking depth player, which makes him the "striker".

You can say they regularly don't but I don't see any ambiguity here. I literally looked it up and it was very evident Salah's heat map was wider than Oxlade pretty much every game right back until Christmas (I didn't check them all but did check several). 

And I never said Salah was a winger, I'm on board with the striker type description. He scored 40+ goals this season, I saw him role CB's and do plenty of striker stuff. Right back on the first page, I agree with you in that regard. Maybe this is like that picture of an old woman/ young woman. I see all the things you're saying but I still see it as a 4-3-3 and not a 4-2-3-1.  And I don't see Oxlade playing wider than Salah.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #833 on: May 29, 2018, 01:29:25 pm »
You can say they regularly don't but I don't see any ambiguity here. I literally looked it up and it was very evident Salah's heat map was wider than Oxlade pretty much every game right back until Christmas (I didn't check them all but did check several). 

And I never said Salah was a winger, I'm on board with the striker type description. He scored 40+ goals this season, I saw him role CB's and do plenty of striker stuff. Right back on the first page, I agree with you in that regard. Maybe this is like that picture of an old woman/ young woman. I see all the things you're saying but I still see it as a 4-3-3 and not a 4-2-3-1.  And I don't see Oxlade playing wider than Salah.
Agree with this, but it doesn't really matter that much I suppose.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #834 on: May 29, 2018, 01:51:13 pm »
You can say they regularly don't but I don't see any ambiguity here. I literally looked it up and it was very evident Salah's heat map was wider than Oxlade pretty much every game right back until Christmas (I didn't check them all but did check several). 

And I never said Salah was a winger, I'm on board with the striker type description. He scored 40+ goals this season, I saw him role CB's and do plenty of striker stuff. Right back on the first page, I agree with you in that regard. Maybe this is like that picture of an old woman/ young woman. I see all the things you're saying but I still see it as a 4-3-3 and not a 4-2-3-1.  And I don't see Oxlade playing wider than Salah.
I'm in the camp that sees formations as mainly a defense thing, describing roughly the players' defensive zones. In attack, formations are largely meaningless as players move around so much. In defense, we use a 433 or 451, not a 4231.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #835 on: May 29, 2018, 02:04:42 pm »
Agree with this, but it doesn't really matter that much I suppose.

True

Back onto Fabinho. There's been a heap of conversations about what type of no.6 Klopp wants with talk about Keita playing there, Jorginho or even Gini. I think we can pretty much put those arguments to bed now. To me, it's pretty clear Klopp wanted a physically imposing player at DM and we've got one now. I think BabuYagu has ultimately been shown to be correct. That Klopp has targeted a player that is brilliant guarding space, physically imposing that can chase down and snuff out counter attacks, compete in the air. The player always needed to be functional on the ball, and IMO Fabinho is more than that, but it's the off the ball traits that Klopp valued most in a no.6.



« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 02:06:57 pm by DanA »
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #836 on: May 29, 2018, 05:41:45 pm »
I feel like I've been cheated out of my depression.
:lmao

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #837 on: May 29, 2018, 06:31:13 pm »
I'm in the camp that sees formations as mainly a defense thing, describing roughly the players' defensive zones. In attack, formations are largely meaningless as players move around so much. In defense, we use a 433 or 451, not a 4231.

They ARE mainly a defensive thing, which is why Rinus Michels always maintained there was no such thing as a "3-5-2" as it became a 5-3-2 on defense (in those days). A coaching friend of mine (one of the elder statesman) once said that all formations become 2-3-5 in the final third. Another coaching mate used to say all formations in defence become 6-3-1 eventually, following the old-school tactical rule of "one more defender than there are attackers".

But with regard to us, Salah is the one attacker who rarely drops back, and he keeps their defenders honest by creating depth. Mane and Firmino drop way back into midfield, as does the "runner" in midfield. We're playing a PROPER 4-2-3-1. And by that, I mean that almost everyone misunderstands what was revolutionary about the original 4-2-3-1.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #838 on: May 29, 2018, 06:35:31 pm »
One thing I noticed about the main midfielders we signed under Klopp - Wijnaldum, Keita and now Fabinho. They all have strengths and weaknesses, but overall they are very complete players. I can see some people superficially judge them as "box to box" players. There isn't a "Mascherano type" or "Alonso type" and they are very versatile.

In his two years here Wijnaldum played as the deepest and most advanced in a midfield trio, and of course right in the middle and most famously as a part of a back three. Fabinho - from what I read because I haven't seen them that much - played in both roles of the double pivot and as a right back. Keita was the most "fixed" of the trio, but he played for a RB Leipzig side that needed to maximize his attacking contribution because it is exceptional. But he did play out wide when needed if I'm not mistaken.

I wonder if that all played a part on their arrival.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #839 on: May 29, 2018, 07:38:16 pm »
One thing I noticed about the main midfielders we signed under Klopp - Wijnaldum, Keita and now Fabinho. They all have strengths and weaknesses, but overall they are very complete players. I can see some people superficially judge them as "box to box" players. There isn't a "Mascherano type" or "Alonso type" and they are very versatile.

In his two years here Wijnaldum played as the deepest and most advanced in a midfield trio, and of course right in the middle and most famously as a part of a back three. Fabinho - from what I read because I haven't seen them that much - played in both roles of the double pivot and as a right back. Keita was the most "fixed" of the trio, but he played for a RB Leipzig side that needed to maximize his attacking contribution because it is exceptional. But he did play out wide when needed if I'm not mistaken.

I wonder if that all played a part on their arrival.

It was the same under Rodgers - he wanted a midfield where everyone is capable of doing everything. This is nothing new. The problem is that all-rounders tend not to "stand out", which is why other managers prefer specialists. It locks the team into a way of playing, but it means you have more potential game changers on the field.
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