Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[Kenny's Jacket]

She's literally said again the max you'll pay on your energy is £2500. Honestly she's a stupid twat isn't she.

Ive just had my bill, its going to be £600 a month electric only. There was no reduction written on my bill.

How do this government help show on the bill?

[Circa1892]

She's literally said again the max you'll pay on your energy is £2500. Honestly she's a stupid twat isn't she.

That's so fucking dangerous. Martin Lewis is being drowned out on this - but the message needs to be made so loudly that absolutely nobody's bill is capped at £2,500. People in poorly insulated/large households will pay significantly more. They'll pay a LOT less than they would have without the energy bills scheme, but still could be double that.

It's based on unit cost. The absolutely fucking disaster of the Govt comms on this is they haven't absolutely nailed down the "use less, pay less" message. Obviously its easier said than done, but its so essential.

[Red Beret]

Would love this twat to explain who and what he means

It's clearly addressing the radical shift from traditional economic policy. Whereas Labour were seen as "tax and spend" and the tories were about cutting taxes and efficiency savings, Truss has developed the "cut tax, spend loads  then borrow, rob, steal and check behind the sofa for loose chage" economic model.

[killer-heels]

If they announce massive public spending cuts next, do we have an idea how the market will react?

They will love it but politically she would get battered.

[Felch Aid]

Each interview is a car crash. Beyond parody surely

[clinical]

That's so fucking dangerous. Martin Lewis is being drowned out on this - but the message needs to be made so loudly that absolutely nobody's bill is capped at £2,500. People in poorly insulated/large households will pay significantly more. They'll pay a LOT less than they would have without the energy bills scheme, but still could be double that.

It's based on unit cost. The absolutely fucking disaster of the Govt comms on this is they haven't absolutely nailed down the "use less, pay less" message. Obviously its easier said than done, but its so essential.

Her words will cause many old people or people not savvy on energy costs to massively overspend this winter. It really is dangerous. She has no idea what she's talking about on any of it. It's so dangerous.

[Red Beret]

She's literally said again the max you'll pay on your energy is £2500. Honestly she's a stupid twat isn't she.

Maybe she meant per month?

I remember the pig fucker pulling one of these regional radio PR stunts. He got absolutely slaughtered.  Hope the same happens for Truss. She'd have been better off doing an ask me anything on twitter 

[rafathegaffa83]

BBC Leeds first. Her first question - Where have you been?

She’ll get a grilling and will give some shite, rehearsed answers to questions she wanted to get, rather than will get. Just a question of how much people give a shit.

Matt Chorley@MattChorley
Ahahaha. Liz Truss ladles on how pleased she is to be on BBC Leeds. But is repeatedly pushed by @therimaahmed on her absence during a week of chaos. “Where have you been?”

Matt Chorley@MattChorley
“Are you ashamed of what you’ve done? Are you?” BBC Kent not pissing about this morning

Matt Chorley@MattChorley
Utterly bizarre response to her own local BBC station asking why the roof of the local hospital is held up by dozens of props. Truss tells BBC Norfolk that she will lobby the health secretary as a local MP. But won’t make promises on her behalf. What?!?

Matt Chorley@MattChorley
BBC Bristol: "That is the same scripted answer you have given to every local radio station this morning. "Your Chancellor, on Friday, opened up the stable door and spooked the horses so much you could almost see the economy being dragged behind them."

Matt Chorley@MattChorley
BBC Radio Bristol's @jhansonradio also not pissing about: “It's hard to know what is falling more since you entered Downing Street, the value of the pound or the Tory poll rating”

[Ray K]

Still though, if she makes it to the next election (a big IF), based on this evidence her campaign performance might make Theresa May's 2017 campaign look like Blair in 1997.  It could be one for the ages.

[classycarra]

Her words will cause many old people or people not savvy on energy costs to massively overspend this winter. It really is dangerous. She has no idea what she's talking about on any of it. It's so dangerous.

Yep dangerous lie. Worth sharing this:

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584
Pls share to stop confusion.

THERE IS NO £2,500 CAP ON ENERGY BILLS.

Instead the new 1 Oct guarantee, like the old caps, limits
- Daily charge (28p gas, 46p elec)
- & Unit rates (10p/kWh gas, 34p/kWh elec)

So use more, pay more. £2,500 is just what someone with avg use'd pay

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584

[PaulF]

She certainly isn't.

And by saying that all our problems are due to the war in Ukraine she is simply encouraging the British people to ditch Zelensky and bring the war to a swift end.

And I'm sure Putin didn't calculate in this happening .
In his eyes he now has part of Ukraine he considers his and can 'defend'. If he can persuade governments of Ukrainian allies that the energy price will collapse overnight if they stop assisting Ukraine and let him hold his gains it will be a massive victory for him .
I struggle to use the word victory for anyone that has inflicted the horrors he has. But I haven't a better word to hand .

[PaulF]

Yep dangerous lie. Worth sharing this:

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584
Pls share to stop confusion.

THERE IS NO £2,500 CAP ON ENERGY BILLS.

Instead the new 1 Oct guarantee, like the old caps, limits
- Daily charge (28p gas, 46p elec)
- & Unit rates (10p/kWh gas, 34p/kWh elec)

So use more, pay more. £2,500 is just what someone with avg use'd pay

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584

Gonna reiterate my analogy. It's like saying petrol is capped at £2 a litre .

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yep dangerous lie. Worth sharing this:

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584
Pls share to stop confusion.

THERE IS NO £2,500 CAP ON ENERGY BILLS.

Instead the new 1 Oct guarantee, like the old caps, limits
- Daily charge (28p gas, 46p elec)
- & Unit rates (10p/kWh gas, 34p/kWh elec)

So use more, pay more. £2,500 is just what someone with avg use'd pay

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584

But the media are equally culpable. As you and others here (and elsewhere) have stated, it should never have been linked to average use/household as then gets totally lost / glossed over / not reported.

When I first heard of the cap, I too - even though it made no sense - thought that it was a hard cap.

[red_Mark1980]

She's even worse than I imagined.

And I thought she'd be fucking abysmal

[CheshireDave]

Ive just had my bill, its going to be £600 a month electric only. There was no reduction written on my bill.

How do this government help show on the bill?

How on earth do you get a bill of 600 quid a month?! Do you have a heat pump?

Not sure how it shows on a paper bill. I am with Octopus Energy and can see my direct dept is 60 odd quid less than it was last month.

[Statto Red]

Still though, if she makes it to the next election (a big IF), based on this evidence her campaign performance might make Theresa May's 2017 campaign look like Blair in 1997.  It could be one for the ages.

It'll be amazing if Truss makes it to Halloween in a few weeks never mind the next election the way she's carrying on.

So who thought it'd be a good idea for Truss to go on local radio, thinking she'd have easy interviews, instead it's ended up being a car crash, as it seems she's got a pasting all over the place.

[killer-heels]

Ive just had my bill, its going to be £600 a month electric only. There was no reduction written on my bill.

How do this government help show on the bill?

Do you run the national grid through your home?

[Nobby Reserve]

She's literally said again the max you'll pay on your energy is £2500. Honestly she's a stupid twat isn't she.

She's not being stupid, she's being knowingly duplicitous - hoping that (as filopastry says) enough people are dumb/sycophantic enough to believe it

[thaddeus]

Yep dangerous lie. Worth sharing this:

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584
Pls share to stop confusion.

THERE IS NO £2,500 CAP ON ENERGY BILLS.

Instead the new 1 Oct guarantee, like the old caps, limits
- Daily charge (28p gas, 46p elec)
- & Unit rates (10p/kWh gas, 34p/kWh elec)

So use more, pay more. £2,500 is just what someone with avg use'd pay

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1575073078119235584

By being punitive and annoying a few of those resident in our household we're modelled to have reduced from average user +50% to average user +10%.  In price cap terms that means a saving of £1k/year which goes some way to covering the costs of every other essential going up.

Sticking a bit of foil behind a radiator isn't going to make much difference by itself but I've gone to town and the electricity usage in-particular is considerably down.  The government absolutely should be encouraging less usage, just as most European nations have done, but for whatever reason they don't seem to want to.  I guess for them it's one of those "personal responsibility" moments but they could at least make it clear what the price cap is and what it isn't.

[redbyrdz]

Gonna reiterate my analogy. It's like saying petrol is capped at £2 a litre .

Only that they say it the other way round: "you will never pay more than £2500 per year for petrol", which of course is wrong.

[FlashingBlade]

But lets face it nothings gonna change, there has been a coup in the UK...a democratically elected Government has been ousted by a small extreme group with an extreme plan no one voted for ( bar 50,000 right wing nutters)....and no ones protesting!!....European Super league , thousands on the streets...this?...Nada!

[redbyrdz]

Ive just had my bill, its going to be £600 a month electric only. There was no reduction written on my bill.

How do this government help show on the bill?

My energy supplier said they's included the new price cap, but excluded the £400 government support on their prediction. No idea if they all do that, but it makes sense as the £400 might be paid differently, depending on how you pay your bill.

[Kenny's Jacket]

How on earth do you get a bill of 600 quid a month?! Do you have a heat pump?

Not sure how it shows on a paper bill. I am with Octopus Energy and can see my direct dept is 60 odd quid less than it was last month.

That doesnt include heating, that's just electric. Im very worried.
MY Gas is put into a LNG tank in the garden, dunno what that is going to cost

[redbyrdz]

They will love it but politically she would get battered.

I'm not sure, you would have thought they'd love the tax cuts too but they didn't. Thats why I'm wondering if there'd be further turmoil when they announce spending cuts. I definitively hope so.

[Robinred]

But lets face it nothings gonna change, there has been a coup in the UK...a democratically elected Government has been ousted by a small extreme group with an extreme plan no one voted for ( bar 50,000 right wing nutters)....and no ones protesting!!....European Super league , thousands on the streets...this?...Nada!

Your description is accurate, but I for one cannot see nothing changing after this. The Tories themselves will change it probably - those occasions like when a tearful Thatcher had to admit defeat. The ERG/Tufton St. gang are not omnipotent.

[Red Beret]

Ovo told me they would debit my account as normal, but that the £400 subsidy would be applied to my (presume energy) account in six instalments, starting with a £66 one I think.

Thank goodness I live in a small, energy efficient property.  I'm feeling very angry on behalf of those effectively being penalised for having large or older homes, or had the gall to start families or get old.

Dread to think where I'll be in 10 to 15 years.

[TepidT2O]

They will love it but politically she would get battered.

Yes, but the damage is already done in the markets, it can’t be undone.

The political bartering will only continue

We are fucking fucked I’m afraid

[filopastry]

If they announce massive public spending cuts next, do we have an idea how the market will react?

Markets (bonds and currency anyway) would probably be positive if they thought it was deliverable, in reality I doubt anyone thinks big public spending savings are deliverable given where we are right now

[FlashingBlade]

Your description is accurate, but I for one cannot see nothing changing after this. The Tories themselves will change it probably - those occasions like when a tearful Thatcher had to admit defeat. The ERG/Tufton St. gang are not omnipotent.

Ok this is my take, the hard right will be in government for the max time they have, pushing through any change they can...tax , employment laws, EU based Regs...etc...and lose the election by a landslide....but Labour will pick up a shit show...Tories will just bide their time, the damage will be done, Labour wont be able to turn it around, bit like the post war economic nightmare they picked up and became unpopular trying to put it right...The right having achieved what they want will probably let Boris back at the top.


The real culprits are the knobs who voted them in in the first place.

[Nobby Reserve]

Still though, if she makes it to the next election (a big IF), based on this evidence her campaign performance might make Theresa May's 2017 campaign look like Blair in 1997.  It could be one for the ages.

Could be a wonder to behold

[Red-Soldier]

But lets face it nothings gonna change, there has been a coup in the UK...a democratically elected Government has been ousted by a small extreme group with an extreme plan no one voted for ( bar 50,000 right wing nutters)....and no ones protesting!!....European Super league , thousands on the streets...this?...Nada!

Football is more important 

[Circa1892]

It really is astonishing Truss won an election.

Even among the Tory members. She's a fundamentally poor speaker and communicator. Ignoring everything else it's madness.

They literally just voted for a cosplay Thatcher. It'd be the equivalent of us putting that bloke who dressed up as Klopp on the piss and duped GMB in the Euros as our next manager.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

That doesnt include heating, that's just electric. Im very worried.
MY Gas is put into a LNG tank in the garden, dunno what that is going to cost

You'll have to mothball the cannabis farm for a bit mate 

Seriously though, that's a chunky leccy bill, how big's your gaff? Do you have heat pumps or charge electric cars, or is that just normal domestic use?

I never heard Truss announce a cap of £2,500, because I try to avoid anything she says. But it was obvious from all other commentators that the figure was what someone with average use would pay as opposed to being an overall cap. It's a good example of how incorrect mesaging can become the truth for some people though.

[thaddeus]

Yes, but the damage is already done in the markets, it can’t be undone.

The political bartering will only continue

We are fucking fucked I’m afraid

Yes, that seemed to be the consensus amongst economists on a podcast I had on last night.  The policies in isolation aren't that damaging such that reversing some or all of them now would put everything back to how it was.  The market reaction was more because of the economic illiteracy and idealism of those now running the UK - if they're capable of reading that so poorly then what else are they capable of?  It's not even as though they weren't warned as they had Sunak labouring the point throughout the entire leadership campaign.

Regaining that trust is a long, hard road and the view of some of the economists was that the UK will never do so due to other structural issues.

[Nobby Reserve]

Ok this is my take, the hard right will be in government for the max time they have, pushing through any change they can...tax , employment laws, EU based Regs...etc...and lose the election by a landslide....but Labour will pick up a shit show...Tories will just bide their time, the damage will be done, Labour wont be able to turn it around, bit like the post war economic nightmare they picked up and became unpopular trying to put it right...The right having achieved what they want will probably let Boris back at the top.


The real culprits are the knobs who voted them in in the first place.

Which is why we need PR.

The Tories only ever govern on 35-40% of the vote and have no real right-wing opponents to split their vote. Meanwhile, more progressive parties get typically 50-60% of the vote but it's split between 3/4 parties (depending which part of UK) and end up out of power for the majority of the time.

[Red-Soldier]

You'll have to mothball the cannabis farm for a bit mate 

Seriously though, that's a chunky leccy bill, how big's your gaff? Do you have heat pumps or charge electric cars, or is that just normal domestic use?

I never heard Truss announce a cap of £2,500, because I try to avoid anything she says. But it was obvious from all other commentators that the figure was what someone with average use would pay as opposed to being an overall cap. It's a good example of how incorrect mesaging can become the truth for some people though.

That's what I was thinking - must be bloody huge! 

[Kenny's Jacket]

You'll have to mothball the cannabis farm for a bit mate 

Seriously though, that's a chunky leccy bill, how big's your gaff? Do you have heat pumps or charge electric cars, or is that just normal domestic use?

I never heard Truss announce a cap of £2,500, because I try to avoid anything she says. But it was obvious from all other commentators that the figure was what someone with average use would pay as opposed to being an overall cap. It's a good example of how incorrect mesaging can become the truth for some people though.

No leccy cars or heat pumps 

Ive know the |£2500 ewas average use.  They got my bill from average use

Would a smart meter help?

[Red-Soldier]

Which is why we need PR.

The Tories only ever govern on 35-40% of the vote and have no real right-wing opponents to split their vote. Meanwhile, more progressive parties get typically 50-60% of the vote but it's split between 3/4 parties (depending which part of UK) and end up out of power for the majority of the time.

Exactly.

The majority of people in the UK are not righ-wing pricks.

[thaddeus]

Which is why we need PR.

The Tories only ever govern on 35-40% of the vote and have no real right-wing opponents to split their vote. Meanwhile, more progressive parties get typically 50-60% of the vote but it's split between 3/4 parties (depending which part of UK) and end up out of power for the majority of the time.

But I think the right is operating to the current FPTP model and would react to PR with a new farther right party or parties.  The likes of UKIP - single policy populist issue parties - would become permanent parts of the landscape.

Those parties should take more of the electorate from the Tories than the other parties but as Brexit showed they don't necessarily operate along traditional party politics lines.  Meloni's speech about raging war on consumerism (left appealing) and woke (right appealing) would suck in voters from the whole spectrum but fundamentally she heads up a neo-Nazi party.  The more those extreme right parties are given air-time the more chance they have of bringing people over to their side, Frottage is a fine example of it.

I think PR may deny the Tories the opportunity to come back and finish what they've started but equally it may bring them back to power with a supercharged right wing agenda due to their coalition partners.

[liverbloke]

Which is why we need PR.

The Tories only ever govern on 35-40% of the vote and have no real right-wing opponents to split their vote. Meanwhile, more progressive parties get typically 50-60% of the vote but it's split between 3/4 parties (depending which part of UK) and end up out of power for the majority of the time.

still not yet part of the labour manifesto regardless

surely it only works if either everyone legally has to vote or a minimum percentage of the total electorate needs to vote - and even then, as with most voting systems, there are underhand tactics parties can use to manipulate voting