Topic: What is the point of the Lib Dems?

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

The Tories have moved from centre-right to right, Labour from left to centre-left and the Greens are probably the most left wing party of the three now. 

Really not sure I call Labour "centre-left", more like just centre (edging towards centre-right). The Greens are by some distance the only left wing party in the UK and the only party worth your time at the polling station.

[Red-Soldier]

The point of the libdems is win seats labour can’t.

Correct.  There are seats that have no chance of a Labour MP.

[Red-Soldier]

Bottom line: With FPTP, they take seats away from the Tories in places where Labour won't get elected.

Indeed.

[Red Beret]

I always find it ironic that the Greens were founded by ex-Tories.

[John C]

Ed Davey has about as much gravitas as Keith Chegwin.

He came across really well on the Leading podcast last week.

[TheShanklyGates]

I always find it ironic that the Greens were founded by ex-Tories.

What could be more conservative than wanting to preserve the environment? Unfortunately, the only thing the Conservatives are actually interested in conserving is their own wealth and power.

[Wabaloolah]

The numbers weren't there for a Lab-Lib coalition. Labour (258 seats) and the Lib Dems (57) had 315 seats between them - more than the Tories (306) but a fair bit short of the 326 seats needed for a majority (or 323 once we've removed the 5 Sinn Fein MPs and the Speaker from the calculations). They'd have been constantly scrambling around for votes from the SNP (6), Plaid Cymru (3), the SDLP (3), the Greens (1) and Alliance (1) to get anything through - it would have been a shitshow.

This is it really. They sacrificed far too many of their manifesto pledges for stability (if we're being generous) or for a sniff of power and cushy ministerial jobs (if we're not). They had a unique amount of power in that parliament in that they could have withdrawn from the coalition and collapsed the government at any point they wanted to extract concessions from the Tories, but instead they were happy to acquiesce to far too many Tory demands, and where they did try to push some of their policies they were thoroughly out-tacticed, as Big Sam would say, like with the mess that was the AV referendum.

The end result has been 13 years of Tory rule and the Lib Dems reduced to a rump because they betrayed the trust of their voters so badly.

yes unfortunately the numbers weren't really there for a Lab-Lib coalition V2, the SDLP did take the Labour whip so that's three to add to the numbers but 318 would have been unlikely to have brought a particularly stable government.

Think Labour were ready for opposition at that point anyway and had they not elected the wrong Miliband would likely have won in 2015 as Ed simply refused to defend Labour's record in government and the Liberals got the blame for the coalition and many just voted Tory instead giving Cameron his chance to fuck the country over with the stupid EU referendum, then Labour decided to cut its own throat and elect Corbyn as leader and 13 years later this is the mess we find ourselves in.

If the politicians had a time machine, I strongly suspect they would make a different decision on that coalition than they did at the time.

What I can't get out of my mind though is that cringe inducing press conference that call me Dave and Clegg held in the Rose Garden of number 10 to announce the coalition agreement! 🤮🤮

[Sangria]

I always find it ironic that the Greens were founded by ex-Tories.

Thatcher was supposed to be big on certain environmentalist issues due to her scientific background. And big on the economic basis of the EU, being an ideological economic liberal. Extremely different from the modern Tories, who have no consistent ideology beyond socking it to the libs and grifting as much as possible.

[Sangria]

yes unfortunately the numbers weren't really there for a Lab-Lib coalition V2, the SDLP did take the Labour whip so that's three to add to the numbers but 318 would have been unlikely to have brought a particularly stable government.

Think Labour were ready for opposition at that point anyway and had they not elected the wrong Miliband would likely have won in 2015 as Ed simply refused to defend Labour's record in government and the Liberals got the blame for the coalition and many just voted Tory instead giving Cameron his chance to fuck the country over with the stupid EU referendum, then Labour decided to cut its own throat and elect Corbyn as leader and 13 years later this is the mess we find ourselves in.

If the politicians had a time machine, I strongly suspect they would make a different decision on that coalition than they did at the time.

What I can't get out of my mind though is that cringe inducing press conference that call me Dave and Clegg held in the Rose Garden of number 10 to announce the coalition agreement! 🤮🤮

And I'd never heard of formal supply and confidence agreements before May and the DUP, so I wouldn't have held it against the Lib Dems for not suggesting it in 2010. AFAIK at the time, it was either the Tories and the Lib Dems, or Labour, the Lib Dems plus at least one other party. And if the Lib Dems refuses to comply with either, the Tories would have converted their plurality into a majority in the subsequent election.

[rob1966]

Correct.  There are seats that have no chance of a Labour MP.

Hopefully the party have repaired the damage enough with their traditional voters that they will vote Lib Dem at the next election rather than go for the Tory.

[Nobby Reserve]

The point of the libdems is win seats labour can’t.

Win, then implement Tory/right-of-centre economic policy?

That was more my point.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

In bygone days you had;

Tories - Toffs, bankers, people that were self made pulling the ladder up, twats.
Liberal Democrats - Middle class bleeding heart types, beige politically, but wouldn't vote Labour.
Labour - Formed to support working classes and the Unions, but now are an amalgamation of both of the above.

[Nobby Reserve]

In bygone days you had;

Tories - Toffs, bankers, people that were self made pulling the ladder up, twats.
Liberal Democrats - Middle class bleeding heart types, beige politically, but wouldn't vote Labour.
Labour - Formed to support working classes and the Unions, but now are an amalgamation of both of the above.

That's pretty much it.

No political party has wealth redistribution/narrowing the income & wealth gap as an aim these days



* well, apart from the Tories, who want to redistribute more wealth from the 'have-a-littles' to the 'have-a-lots'

[slowtyper]

What did it for me with them is going along with the Tories on the Bedroom Tax. Attacking the poor. They could have stood up to them. Blocked it. Instead, they immediately left people struggling to live in housing. Many went onto the streets. I can never forgive them. I used to switch to them in local elections, purely because they kept out the Tories in my area. After 2010, i've lumped them in as tories in disguise. I'll never lend them my vote again. They lost all credibility.