Author Topic: Roberto Firmino  (Read 2006903 times)

Online rob1966

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14960 on: November 16, 2022, 03:00:50 pm »
It was just smart play from Bobby, he played the percentages.  Same as shooting across the goal so someone could slide in and finish the chance instead of going near post.

Agree that the keeper didn't really cover himself in glory though, it practically went through his hand.

I thought that at first but from another angle looking along the line, you could see that he just wasn't able to make up the ground and by the time he dived it was too late.
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Offline FLRed67

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14961 on: November 16, 2022, 04:36:49 pm »
One of the great headed goals at Anfield

Their goalkeeper was excellent. Made two brilliant saves to keep them in the game in the first half. But Bobby made him look like a fool.

Like a scrum half suddenly reversing play and catching the full back out of position, with a little dink into space, over the back line.

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Offline Wingman

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14962 on: November 16, 2022, 08:15:23 pm »
Most Headed goals for Liverpool in the Premier League.

#1 Fowler 266 games -- 21 goals

#2 Firmino 244 games -- 18 goals.

Not having a go at you .. but have all record pre 1992 been erased?

Iíd like to know how many Toshack got

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14963 on: November 16, 2022, 09:35:57 pm »
Not having a go at you .. but have all record pre 1992 been erased?

Iíd like to know how many Toshack got

74 League Goals in 172 but donít know how many were headers. Would it be more than Fowlerís total?

https://www.lfchistory.net/Stats/PlayerGoalscorers/1

Offline 4pool

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14964 on: November 17, 2022, 12:29:56 am »
Not having a go at you .. but have all record pre 1992 been erased?

Iíd like to know how many Toshack got

Blame LFCTV. They had the stat on their Southampton post-match program. Had nothing to do with me. And yes, I know football was invented before 1992 as i'm the same age as King Kenny.  :P
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14965 on: November 17, 2022, 02:16:50 am »
Not having a go at you .. but have all record pre 1992 been erased?

Iíd like to know how many Toshack got
What 4Pool posted was for the PL so of course Toshack wasn't mentioned.

These days virtually every league  stat quotes PL only. 

Offline Wingman

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14966 on: November 17, 2022, 07:03:23 am »
What 4Pool posted was for the PL so of course Toshack wasn't mentioned.

These days virtually every league  stat quotes PL only. 

Yes, Iím aware of that - and I know that stats probably werenít collected as widely pre 92 either.

Anyway, back to Bobby. He offers something the others donít and with Jota, Nunez, Diaz and Carvalho all well below 30, Iím all for keeping him on.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14967 on: November 17, 2022, 08:26:03 am »
Exactly. Ball in from the left, striker moving right to left to go for the header meeting the ball to the left of the penalty spot from the keepers POV, 16 yards out, most times it's going to be headed to the keepers left so keeper adjusts, Bobby instead uses the pace and flicks it in the one place you don't expect it to go, great header

It's  a brilliant header and you're correct that the keeper shifts his weight to the left. That's what beat him. I initially thought it was bad keeping.
Does Ali save it?  Probably, but still a great header.  Bazuna looks a great young keeper from the Ireland games I've seen him play though.

Online rob1966

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14968 on: November 17, 2022, 10:23:30 am »
It's  a brilliant header and you're correct that the keeper shifts his weight to the left. That's what beat him. I initially thought it was bad keeping.
Does Ali save it?  Probably, but still a great header.  Bazuna looks a great young keeper from the Ireland games I've seen him play though.

I'm not sure. For their goal, he anticipated Adams going far corner and dived the wrong way, so unless he guessed what Bobby would do, I'm not sure he'd have gotten across either.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14969 on: November 17, 2022, 12:09:04 pm »
Can't see why him being 30 or 31 matters, his game was never about pace.  I'd deffo give him another contract for 2 maybe 3 more years.  Vital part of the squad and brings something different to the game plan (he's also been banging them in so far this season)

Are Henderson, Milner, Fabinho's game about pace?

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14970 on: November 17, 2022, 12:26:16 pm »
Are Henderson, Milner, Fabinho's game about pace?

What's that got to do with Bobby?
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14971 on: November 17, 2022, 12:28:51 pm »
What's that got to do with Bobby?

Point is just because a player doesn't have pace, or rely on pace, that the aging process means they are still effective into their 30's. Milner never relied on pace, nor did Henderson, yet our midfield looks completely devoid of energy and aggression.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14972 on: November 17, 2022, 12:35:35 pm »
And if you don't have much to start with losing what you did have is arguably more problematic.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14973 on: November 17, 2022, 12:42:10 pm »
I thought the goal was a great header with questionable goalkeeping. The way he dived for it was strange and it did look like he had a decent reach in general.

Good news about the contract which I think will be announced quite soon. Looks like this won't be his last season after all. Even if we sell him in 2024 with a year left or so we'll be able to recoup some sort of fee. Now wasn't his time to depart IMO.
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Offline Aldo1988

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14974 on: November 17, 2022, 12:44:09 pm »
Point is just because a player doesn't have pace, or rely on pace, that the aging process means they are still effective into their 30's. Milner never relied on pace, nor did Henderson, yet our midfield looks completely devoid of energy and aggression.

Isn't Milner 36 now, and Hendo doesn't look like he's devoid of energy or aggression.  Think everyone is suffering a bit from the amount of games played last season, the short pre-season on injuries.  Bobby will be fine for a few more seasons.  He will be a valuable squad member for 2-3 more years.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 12:50:27 pm by Aldo1988 »
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14975 on: November 17, 2022, 12:51:17 pm »
If its a two year contract, seems a bit of a no brainer. 9 goals and 4 assists already this season at a rate of a G/A every 105 minutes, and he'll soon drop out of our first choice XI once Luis is fit.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14976 on: November 17, 2022, 01:01:05 pm »
I'm not sure. For their goal, he anticipated Adams going far corner and dived the wrong way, so unless he guessed what Bobby would do, I'm not sure he'd have gotten across either.

No one guesses what Bobby would do.

Bobby doesn't guess what Bobby would do.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14977 on: November 17, 2022, 01:36:35 pm »
We can pay him since Ox, Keita, and Milner will be off the books!

The shell game we play makes it so.


Kidding aside - I'd like to see him extended for a short-term deal - nothing with a significant increase in wages though. He can spell the forwards, but also now seems comfortable as an attacking mid.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14978 on: November 17, 2022, 02:11:53 pm »
Most Headed goals for Liverpool in the Premier League.

#1 Fowler 266 games -- 21 goals

#2 Firmino 244 games -- 18 goals.

A combined 39 ear infections between them. A pharmaceutical company's wet dream.

Online rob1966

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14979 on: November 17, 2022, 02:13:27 pm »
No one guesses what Bobby would do.

Bobby doesn't guess what Bobby would do.

;D
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Offline Xanderzone

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14980 on: November 17, 2022, 03:08:39 pm »
I think the deeper role he's been playing this season suits him.

Don't think he's got the legs to play up front and press like crazy to like he once could. But in the attacking midfield role he still has something to offer and could prolong his career here by another season or two.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14981 on: November 17, 2022, 03:22:36 pm »
At our best we've had players in the squad who didn't have the ability to play our high intensity game. Origi and Shaq spring to mind. They still contributed, mostly from the bench. I think bobby fits that mould now. Although a superior player to either.  We'll fix the obvious midfield problems first.

Even the great managers rely on luck and Klopp lucked out inheriting this guy.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14982 on: November 17, 2022, 04:36:09 pm »
Without knowing the terms of his possible renewal it's hard to say if it's a good deal or not. We have a finite budget, it all matters to a degree. This could also be a PR move same as with Mane where we want to get it out that we did make an offer. Just deciding to negotiate when a player is a on a clear hot streak when you had months and months before to decide if you wanted him still or not isn't really "smart" for the supposedly "smartest" transfer team in the business but what do I know.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14983 on: November 17, 2022, 05:47:04 pm »
Retaining him makes a lot of sense. Firstly, his experience is invaluable and especially now with us having a strong South American contingent he is surely great in to have in the squad. Secondly, he hasn't completely fallen off a cliff; he might not be the pressing machine of old but he can still do it and his movement is still sharp and clever. Additionally, he's having a decent goalscoring season for us and maybe that is something he can maintain or even improve on into his 30s, it isn't completely unheard of.

I don't see why we would let him go if keeping him suits all parties. He's not a guaranteed starter now but he's a valuable and viable option and he's universally loved.

Offline SamLad

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14984 on: November 17, 2022, 06:00:14 pm »
ppl losing their shit over a new deal for Bobby, wailing that we need new blood, are missing something pretty obvious imo.

the two things are not mutually exclusive.

if we sign young run-all-day guys and they settle in and perform well, great.  Bobby can get minutes off the bench / in rotation starts .... then in a year or two we can move him on with his value protected.

if we don't sign the guys we need in the next 12 months, keeping him in the squad is nothing but good.


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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14985 on: November 17, 2022, 06:27:21 pm »
Without knowing the terms of his possible renewal it's hard to say if it's a good deal or not. We have a finite budget, it all matters to a degree. This could also be a PR move same as with Mane where we want to get it out that we did make an offer. Just deciding to negotiate when a player is a on a clear hot streak when you had months and months before to decide if you wanted him still or not isn't really "smart" for the supposedly "smartest" transfer team in the business but what do I know.


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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14986 on: November 18, 2022, 08:09:20 am »
I think the sensible thing would be to let him move on and replace him with someone younger, but as long as we arenít relying on him, and heís happy with a squad role then Iím okay with it. I love the guy and Iíd like to see him get a few more trophies before leaving. Iím sure the priority is funding changes in midfield, so he saves us from having to make an attacking signing too.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14987 on: November 18, 2022, 10:01:20 am »
ppl losing their shit over a new deal for Bobby, wailing that we need new blood, are missing something pretty obvious imo.

the two things are not mutually exclusive.

if we sign young run-all-day guys and they settle in and perform well, great.  Bobby can get minutes off the bench / in rotation starts .... then in a year or two we can move him on with his value protected.

if we don't sign the guys we need in the next 12 months, keeping him in the squad is nothing but good.

They can be. I was happy for Milner to stay another year, and didn't want him to leave, but I said at the time not at the expense of signing another midfielder which is ultimately what happened. Had Milner moved on we'd have surely been quicker in the market to replace him.

I actually hope Bobby does stay but again not at the expense of strengthening where we need to.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Redric1970

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14988 on: November 18, 2022, 10:03:34 am »
Obviously we will need to replace Bobby at some point, but midfield is the priority so if keeping Bobby for an extra year means we can bring in at least 2 world class midfielders it makes sense.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14989 on: November 18, 2022, 10:23:28 am »
ppl losing their shit over a new deal for Bobby, wailing that we need new blood, are missing something pretty obvious imo.

the two things are not mutually exclusive.

if we sign young run-all-day guys and they settle in and perform well, great.  Bobby can get minutes off the bench / in rotation starts .... then in a year or two we can move him on with his value protected.

if we don't sign the guys we need in the next 12 months, keeping him in the squad is nothing but good.



In a lot of ways they are mutually exclusive.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14990 on: November 18, 2022, 11:20:49 am »
Obviously we will need to replace Bobby at some point, but midfield is the priority so if keeping Bobby for an extra year means we can bring in at least 2 world class midfielders it makes sense.
I just don't see the issue with it. In the grand scheme of things its a fairly low risk/low cost way of having experienced depth in our forward line. We've added Jota, Diaz and Nunez in the last couple of years. All younger and will hopefully give us the 5+ years of service that the original front 3 have. An extension keeps options open and helps with the transition.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14991 on: November 18, 2022, 11:38:51 am »
I just don't see the issue with it. In the grand scheme of things its a fairly low risk/low cost way of having experienced depth in our forward line. We've added Jota, Diaz and Nunez in the last couple of years. All younger and will hopefully give us the 5+ years of service that the original front 3 have. An extension keeps options open and helps with the transition.

A year extension isnít massively costly but 2 or 3 years at 180,000 per week adds up!

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14992 on: November 18, 2022, 11:40:20 am »
I just don't see the issue with it. In the grand scheme of things its a fairly low risk/low cost way of having experienced depth in our forward line. We've added Jota, Diaz and Nunez in the last couple of years. All younger and will hopefully give us the 5+ years of service that the original front 3 have. An extension keeps options open and helps with the transition.

And where would be without his contribution this season. Obviously you canít extrapolate that for future seasons but, subject to the usual caveats, having him and Henderson filling the Ďseniorí roles isnít a bad thing.

Good role models for any English or Portuguese speaking players we sign. ;D
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 11:56:39 am by So... Howard Phillips »

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14993 on: November 18, 2022, 11:54:25 am »
A year extension isnít massively costly but 2 or 3 years at 180,000 per week adds up!

I guess it depends what he is on or will be on. But there are always these debates about where the money is for new signings and it involves people saying we have invested in wages. If thats the case then surely it makes sense to lose players who are no longer key, to free up money for fees.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14994 on: November 18, 2022, 12:02:52 pm »
I guess it depends what he is on or will be on. But there are always these debates about where the money is for new signings and it involves people saying we have invested in wages. If thats the case then surely it makes sense to lose players who are no longer key, to free up money for fees.

Oxlade Chamberlain, Keita and Milner are all seemingly leaving in the summer. Thats allegedly £400k odd a week off the wage bill. 748 minutes between them, seven starts in total this season, no goals and one assist. I'd suggest they're probably ticking the box for losing players who are no longer key, to free up money, rather than bumping off someone who has played pretty much every game and is our second most productive player this season.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14995 on: November 18, 2022, 12:03:41 pm »
I guess it depends what he is on or will be on. But there are always these debates about where the money is for new signings and it involves people saying we have invested in wages. If thats the case then surely it makes sense to lose players who are no longer key, to free up money for fees.

Ultimately we have an annual player budget and wages factor into that as well as transfer fees.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14996 on: November 18, 2022, 12:18:53 pm »
Oxlade Chamberlain, Keita and Milner are all seemingly leaving in the summer. Thats allegedly £400k odd a week off the wage bill. 748 minutes between them, seven starts in total this season, no goals and one assist. I'd suggest they're probably ticking the box for losing players who are no longer key, to free up money, rather than bumping off someone who has played pretty much every game and is our second most productive player this season.

That makes it more palatable. However what I am nervous about is just the amount of players who are getting significant minutes who in most cases are diminishing in some way that are 30 and over 30. We have seen that the legs can drop off at any moment and if money is tight, then we almost have to take most opportunities to get them off the books.

In two years we will have Thiago, Matip, Henderson, Virgil, Fabinho, Firmino, Salah, still probably on big money and at 32 - 35. Not sure thats ideal at all.

Another thing is the amount of injuries Jota is getting. If he was ever present, maybe a backup like Firmino isnt an issue. But he is playing a lot and what if he keeps regressing? His numbers are good but his off the ball performance is not.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14997 on: November 18, 2022, 12:19:27 pm »
Ultimately we have an annual player budget and wages factor into that as well as transfer fees.

Yeah but they do overlap.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14998 on: November 18, 2022, 12:22:20 pm »
A year extension isnít massively costly but 2 or 3 years at 180,000 per week adds up!
Even £10m a year cost is relatively good value when you look at the cost of alternatives. You'd have to potentially fid a new striker who's good enough, but would not expect to play every week. He'd then have to fit in and understand how we play. Take an average of Jota, Diaz and Nunez and you're looking at £45m conservatively, as well as at least a £5m per year contract, which is a £14m cost to our bottom line, and also comes with new transfer risk. If the new player was any good you'd be bumping him up a bit after the first couple of years too.

Having access to a top 20 all time goalscorer for us for £10m a year is a bargain. I hate to use a Manc example, but Sheringham was a good option for them either off the bench or for the odd start until around his mid 30's (15 in 29 in the league in the season he turned 35). He then did another 2 seasons with Spurs after that! - Bobby is now pretty much the age Sheringham was when he signed for them, and he went on to play 146 times in 4 seasons scoring 46 goals.

Oddly enough, Sheringhams goals per game for Utd is similar to Bobbys over his career with us. If we could get similar figures out of Bobby, we'd all be made up.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #14999 on: November 18, 2022, 12:29:03 pm »
That makes it more palatable. However what I am nervous about is just the amount of players who are getting significant minutes who in most cases are diminishing in some way that are 30 and over 30. We have seen that the legs can drop off at any moment and if money is tight, then we almost have to take most opportunities to get them off the books.

In two years we will have Thiago, Matip, Henderson, Virgil, Fabinho, Firmino, Salah, still probably on big money and at 32 - 35. Not sure thats ideal at all.


Another thing is the amount of injuries Jota is getting. If he was ever present, maybe a backup like Firmino isnt an issue. But he is playing a lot and what if he keeps regressing? His numbers are good but his off the ball performance is not.

Seven players out of a squad of 22/23? :D

Its all a bit daft now. You're talking like we're struggling financially, that we can't afford to have certain players on big money, that there's this major drop off as soon as someone hits 30. If money is as tight as you seem to think, it surely makes more sense to extend players who are still contributing rather than having to pay more for a younger replacement?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.