Topic: Roberto Firmino

[killer-heels]

Having a 32/33 year old, not particularly quick attacker is fine as long as you’ve got plenty of pace elsewhere in attack…which we do

Having a 32/33 year old, not particularly quick midfielder is fine as long as you’ve got plenty of pace elsewhere in midfield…which we don’t

Bobby and Thiago for at least a few more seasons is fine as long as we remedy the other issues we have. Real Madrid can carry plenty of 30+ year olds because they’ve got the right players elsewhere

Madrid can carry a lot of players regardless of finances in a lot of cases. We have these endless debates about funds and one of the arguments put up is that a lot of our money has been invested in wages and that’s a choice, rather than on big transfers. If we are then going to carry players on high wages who are not first choice then what if that hinders our ability to spend big?

Another issue is we are carrying quite a few of them.

[Fromola]

Madrid can carry a lot of players regardless of finances in a lot of cases. We have these endless debates about funds and one of the arguments put up is that a lot of our money has been invested in wages and that’s a choice, rather than on big transfers. If we are then going to carry players on high wages who are not first choice then what if that hinders our ability to spend big?

Another issue is we are carrying quite a few of them.

As have Madrid. City will never know how they managed to fuck that semi final up after dominating the tie and should have finished them off in both legs, while we dominated the final despite running on fumes and their keeper had a stormer. They looked miles off it when Chelsea and City put them out in the seasons prior with a lot of old legs which did lead them to look more to the future.

It's about getting the right blend. Obviously having 7 or 8 get well over 30 is too much, having a few is fine, but we do find it difficult to part with players. It took Gini and Mane to basically reject what we were offering and move on. It might be similar with Bobby if we're only offering him 1-2 years and he wants 3, or can get a big contract elsewhere.

[killer-heels]

As have Madrid. City will never know how they managed to fuck that semi final up after dominating the tie and should have finished them off in both legs, while we dominated the final despite running on fumes and their keeper had a stormer. They looked miles off it when Chelsea and City put them out in the seasons prior with a lot of old legs which did lead them to look more to the future.

It's about getting the right blend. Obviously having 7 or 8 get well over 30 is too much, having a few is fine, but we do find it difficult to part with players. It took Gini and Mane to basically reject what we were offering and move on. It might be similar with Bobby if we're only offering him 1-2 years and he wants 3, or can get a big contract elsewhere.

If we are offering an extension then it needs to be a significant reduction in wages. Last thing we need is to sign another player on for more years in his 30’s and then moan about how money has been invested in wages instead of new transfers.

Dont think any of our players 30 and over should be seeing new contracts.

[didi shamone]

Not many teams have a 5th choice attacker of his quality. We need  two quality midfielders urgently which won't be cheap. An upgrade on Bobby would be expensive and I highly doubt we'll see one in the short term. Reckon he'll be here another two seasons and be used sparingly.

[killer-heels]

Not many teams have a 5th choice attacker of his quality. We need  two quality midfielders urgently which won't be cheap. An upgrade on Bobby would be expensive and I highly doubt we'll see one in the short term. Reckon he'll be here another two seasons and be used sparingly.

I dont get this thing about being used sparingly. Jota has been injured a lot, is he or others not getting injured?

[didi shamone]

I dont get this thing about being used sparingly. Jota has been injured a lot, is he or others not getting injured?

Hopefully not but he and Diaz are injured.  That's why we're playing our 5th choice attacker. And overplaying him at that. Last year we used him sparingly and he had a great goals to minutes ratio.
I'm willing to bet it'll be similar next year.

Or great if we unearth a superior talent and rebuild  our midfield as well.  I don't believe that will happen.

[killer-heels]

Hopefully not but he and Diaz are injured.  That's why we're playing our 5th choice attacker. And overplaying him at that. Last year we used him sparingly and he had a great goals to minutes ratio.
I'm willing to bet it'll be similar next year.

Or great if we unearth a superior talent and rebuild  our midfield as well.  I don't believe that will happen.

He is doing well in terms of goals but his pressing has died a death. We are giving away an insane amount of chances and the system is broken a bit. We need the whole system working again and not carrying players who are compromising that.

[The G in Gerrard]

There's worse things than giving Bobby a contract extension. We need midfielders more than anything. We can go into next season with our current forwards and youth players

[didi shamone]

He is doing well in terms of goals but his pressing has died a death. We are giving away an insane amount of chances and the system is broken a bit. We need the whole system working again and not carrying players who are compromising that.

True but currently that includes most of our midfield. Our best player there (Thiago) is 31 and we  should already be looking for his successor. 
I believe that's the priority by far and it's a hugely expensive fix. Get a functioning  first team before replacing squad players.
As I said I'd love us to do the lot but I don't think it's realistic.

[MPowerYNWA]

I have thought this and never said it aloud…it feels wrong to say it…I love the guy…but he disappeared for ages and his form went through the floor…he has now come back like the old Bobby this season…has his game and hunger returned because he knows he will be out of contract and needs to impress? 

Or Perhaps it was niggling injuries and fatigue that has now passed?

[PaulF]

Do you think he'll get a lot of offers if he runs his contract out and looks to get 3 years with his current salary?

[fowlermagic]

Has been an absolute revelation this season and will surely prosper from not going to the WC. With Salah and Nunez playing a few more games in crazy heat over the coming 5 weeks then Bobby will surely get lots of play once the league fixtures return.

Surely there is some way of attaining his services for another two years considering others will also be leaving on freebies this coming summer. That will free up some space for the midfield additions we need and Bobby even helps out there too as still once of the best that link up the spaces between the midfield / forward lines.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Has been an absolute revelation this season and will surely prosper from not going to the WC. With Salah and Nunez playing a few more games in crazy heat over the coming 5 weeks then Bobby will surely get lots of play once the league fixtures return.

Surely there is some way of attaining his services for another two years considering others will also be leaving on freebies this coming summer. That will free up some space for the midfield additions we need and Bobby even helps out there too as still once of the best that link up the spaces between the midfield / forward lines.

It'll depend if he is willing to take a pay cut or not,there's bound to be plenty of Clubs sniffing around who will offer him more + a signing on bonus.

[farawayred]

Has been an absolute revelation this season and will surely prosper from not going to the WC. With Salah and Nunez playing a few more games in crazy heat over the coming 5 weeks then Bobby will surely get lots of play once the league fixtures return.

Surely there is some way of attaining his services for another two years considering others will also be leaving on freebies this coming summer. That will free up some space for the midfield additions we need and Bobby even helps out there too as still once of the best that link up the spaces between the midfield / forward lines.

I thought Egypt didn't qualify... Salah will play against City in the cup, I rekon.

[Schmidt]

I dont get this thing about being used sparingly. Jota has been injured a lot, is he or others not getting injured?

Our forward line is generally pretty robust, unlike the midfield. The Diaz knee injury, the Nunez red card and the change in formation has led to Bobby playing a lot more than we would have expected, and assuming we go back to 4-3-3 and Nunez doesn't nut anyone we should see less of Bobby over the rest of the season (though I have no problem seeing him starting games).

[Ghost Town]

This season is an object lesson in not allowing a team to get too old. You avoid that by being very selective about who you carry into their 30s. Given Thiago, Henderson, Fabinho, Salah, Van Dijk we can't be paying top end wages on another 30+ player well into their 30s. So yes, extending him would be pretty idiotic assuming he's not going to take a colossal pay cut.

Heh heh. See this is the problem, You make things up in order to fit a view you want to promulgate and then you lose your shit when the club doesn't do what you have decided must be done. And then you lose your shit again when someone points it out. Or, you know, just giggles, like

Hasn't it crossed your mind you that you could just be a bit more moderate in your claims and exclamations and assertions, and obviate all of that? You can do it because you often do post sense.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

Ah yes the, 'we don't buy established talent' line. All the greatest hits are coming out here. I think he must be trolling.

He speaks a hell lot more sense than you do.

[Knight]

Heh heh. See this is the problem, You make things up in order to fit a view you want to promulgate and then you lose your shit when the club doesn't do what you have decided must be done. And then you lose your shit again when someone points it out. Or, you know, just giggles, like

Hasn't it crossed your mind you that you could just be a bit more moderate in your claims and exclamations and assertions, and obviate all of that? You can do it because you often do post sense.

Thanks, I'll take the constructive feedback when it comes with some generosity.

I'm not seeing 'losing my shit' in either my criticism of what the club does or my reaction to your post. Ironically your  post is a little bit extreme and could do with being more moderate

Having said that, yes I was assuming we'd resign Firmino on similar money and I should have made it clear that we really don't want an ageing 5th choice forward on the money Firmino is currently on. If he'd take '5th choice attacker' sort of money, then it becomes a different conversation. But, and I may be wrong about this, I've been assuming that 30 something year olds don't take significant pay cuts to stay at their club.

[El Lobo]

This season is an object lesson in not allowing a team to get too old. You avoid that by being very selective about who you carry into their 30s. Given Thiago, Henderson, Fabinho, Salah, Van Dijk we can't be paying top end wages on another 30+ player well into their 30s. So yes, extending him would be pretty idiotic assuming he's not going to take a colossal pay cut.

Aside from Hendo, I'm not really seeing this major drop off from the other players. I mean Fab is 29, I think we're starting to go a little OTT with what ages we should be getting rid of players.

Alisson, VVD, Matip, Adrian, Thiago, Hendo, Millie, Mo and Bobby are our over 30s.

Adrian doesnt play.

Millie will surely be gone in the summer.

Matips contract expires in 18 months odd and I cant see us extending that (maybe even sell him before)

You'd expect Hendo to take on the Millie role and see his minutes reduced

Alisson is a goalkeeper, you might as well take him out of the stats considering most top GKs go at least to their mid 30s still at the top level and often further

VVD again you see CBs going deep into their 30s so having a 31 year old CB is hardly a disaster

Thiago has never been reliant on pace or anything so there's no reason he can't go to the same sort of age as Modric at a similar level

So I'm really not seeing the problem with keeping Bobby, and as ever the calls for him staying...but taking a massive pay cut are just fanciful nonsense. I dont feel particularly strongly about it either way if he stays or goes, but the age of our squad I think actually has very little to do with our problems this season. One of the main issues is that we havent refreshed midfield, and we've kept on carrying Ox and Naby as 'first teamers' when realistically neither one has been for a few years now (consistently). Lose them two in the summer, along with Adrian and Millie, and get a couple of 23 year old CMs in and the 'average age' drops us down to one of the youngest squads in the league. Start adding fanciful signings like Bellingham, and youngsters like Morton, Bajcetic, Gordon, and it gets even younger. So keeping Bobby isn't some major problem. With those four (Millie, Ox, Naby, Adrian) you're also dropping half a million odd a week in wages so again, keeping Bobby for another few years isn't going to stop us making signings elsewhere. He's well on course for his second most productive season here, its not some mental decision to extend his contract.

[Knight]

It's looked worse than it is because of injuries to Jota and Konate but the average age hasn't been great in quite a few games this season. Plus the distance covered and sprints stats are coming from somewhere. And you've been persistent in claiming the problem is team wide not just the midfield (which has been a helpful balance to some of my, 'it's all the midfield's fault' tendencies).  It's possible we've got conditioning wrong and we'll be back up to speed in the new year, I'm hopeful about that.

As for him being 5th choice and on top end wages, that doesn't strike me as a very sensible approach.

[El Lobo]

It's looked worse than it is because of injuries to Jota and Konate but the average age hasn't been great in quite a few games this season. Plus the distance covered and sprints stats are coming from somewhere. And you've been persistent in claiming the problem is team wide not just the midfield (which has been a helpful balance to some of my, 'it's all the midfield's fault' tendencies).  It's possible we've got conditioning wrong and we'll be back up to speed in the new year, I'm hopeful about that.

As for him being 5th choice and on top end wages, that doesn't strike me as a very sensible approach.

What are top end wages now....? If he's on £180k a week and we're talking about extending on that basis then:

United have ten players on more (Ronaldo, Rashford, De Gea, Casemiro, Antony, Sancho, Varane, Martial, Maguire and Fernandes)

Chelsea have seven players on more (Aubameyang, Sterling, Koulibaly, James, Kante, Fofana and Chilwell)

Man City have, at least, six players on more (Haaland, De Bruyne, Grealish, Foden, Stones, Rodri and christ knows who else considering the under the table payments)

Keeping Bobby for a few more years really wouldnt be a problem, certainly not this 'idiotic' decision you're proclaiming it to be.

[Knight]

Top end for us is probably a better comparison. And by top end I mean top end of our squad.

[El Lobo]

Top end for us is probably a better comparison. And by top end I mean top end of our squad.

Having our best/most productive players on the best money would be great but..... not really how contracts work in the real world

Your top end tends to be players who are either at their peak or frankly...past their peak. It doesn't mean they're not good players to have around or 'not worth' the money. Reals top six earners are all over 30 (Kroos, Benzema, Hazard, Courtois, Modric, Alaba), three of Bayerns top four are. Calling it idiotic to extend Bobby is fine....every chance he'd leave, go to a European rival ala Mane and absolutely smash it for another 3/4 years. Having him on big wages as '5th choice' isn't a problem at all as long as he's still productive. The problem with age in our squad has been in terms of athleticism in midfield, which we need to remedy. Or relying on 30+ year olds as first choice. As you say....5th choice. Fine. The four in front of him are more athletic. The problem with age is when we line up with Hendo, Thiago and Fab in midfield and we have nothing behind them in terms of depth because Naby and Ox havent provided it and the rest are probably too young.

[thaddeus]

It's not my money so what do I care but I'd happily have Bobby on good money for a few more years.  He'll be a good player for some time yet and it's nice for long-serving players to be rewarded.  In the grand scheme of things an extra £50k/week across a three year contract is less than £8m so it's not going to make a great deal of difference to a club the size of LFC.  Other players might argue for higher wages because of it and all that but they can be told to get back in their boxes because they're not approaching their testimonial season!!

Vardy is 35 now and signed a two-year £140k/week contract in the summer.  I'm not saying that was sensible or necessarily the benchmark to work against but I'd be a bit down if we started penny pinching with players like Bobby!

[4pool]

Most Headed goals for Liverpool in the Premier League.

#1 Fowler 266 games -- 21 goals

#2 Firmino 244 games -- 18 goals.

[Ghost Town]

Thanks, I'll take the constructive feedback when it comes with some generosity.

I'm not seeing 'losing my shit' in either my criticism of what the club does or my reaction to your post. Ironically your  post is a little bit extreme and could do with being more moderate

Heh heh now you see what hyperbole does to a post, right? How it comes across and how it stains the perception of the post and, over time and repetition, the perception of the poster themselves.

These days it seems more and more online discussion is being conducted via the loud primary colours of hyperbole, whinge, kneejerk, anger, vengenace-posting and the like. It's just wearisome and one-note.

Christ, that sounds sententious. Blaargh

Bobby is great!

[Knight]

Heh heh now you see what hyperbole does to a post, right? How it comes across and how it stains the perception of the post and, over time and repetition, the perception of the poster themselves.

These days it seems more and more online discussion is being conducted via the loud primary colours of hyperbole, whinge, kneejerk, anger, vengenace-posting and the like. It's just wearisome and one-note.

Christ, that sounds sententious. Blaargh

Bobby is great!

Rant away Ghost Town

I feel like his finishing has improved, feels like he's been very clinical in front of goal for quite some time now. And that header at the weekend was outrageous.

[rob1966]

Aside from Hendo, I'm not really seeing this major drop off from the other players. I mean Fab is 29, I think we're starting to go a little OTT with what ages we should be getting rid of players.

Alisson, VVD, Matip, Adrian, Thiago, Hendo, Millie, Mo and Bobby are our over 30s.

Adrian doesnt play.

Millie will surely be gone in the summer.

Matips contract expires in 18 months odd and I cant see us extending that (maybe even sell him before)

You'd expect Hendo to take on the Millie role and see his minutes reduced

Alisson is a goalkeeper, you might as well take him out of the stats considering most top GKs go at least to their mid 30s still at the top level and often further

VVD again you see CBs going deep into their 30s so having a 31 year old CB is hardly a disaster

Thiago has never been reliant on pace or anything so there's no reason he can't go to the same sort of age as Modric at a similar level

So I'm really not seeing the problem with keeping Bobby, and as ever the calls for him staying...but taking a massive pay cut are just fanciful nonsense. I dont feel particularly strongly about it either way if he stays or goes, but the age of our squad I think actually has very little to do with our problems this season. One of the main issues is that we havent refreshed midfield, and we've kept on carrying Ox and Naby as 'first teamers' when realistically neither one has been for a few years now (consistently). Lose them two in the summer, along with Adrian and Millie, and get a couple of 23 year old CMs in and the 'average age' drops us down to one of the youngest squads in the league. Start adding fanciful signings like Bellingham, and youngsters like Morton, Bajcetic, Gordon, and it gets even younger. So keeping Bobby isn't some major problem. With those four (Millie, Ox, Naby, Adrian) you're also dropping half a million odd a week in wages so again, keeping Bobby for another few years isn't going to stop us making signings elsewhere. He's well on course for his second most productive season here, its not some mental decision to extend his contract.

Don't know where this obsession with 30 comes from for some people, what is this, football or Logans Run?

As for Bobby, Klopp and his team know the role he has and if they think he's fulfilling that then they'll keep him. Klopp has forgotten more about football than most/all of us even know, he's not some dickhead like the Owl, so I trust his judgement.

[So… Howard Philips]

Rant away Ghost Town

I feel like his finishing has improved, feels like he's been very clinical in front of goal for quite some time now. And that header at the weekend was outrageous.

That header at the weekend isn’t getting the credit it deserves, probably because that’s the quality we expect from Bobby.

Imagine the headlines if Haaland had scored it though.

[NarutoReds]

Love Firmino. The intelligence and timing when he drops into space, passes the ball back to our midfielders so Salah / Nunez could like be "in position" or reset the play when being occupied, pulls defenders away and allows the other two having all the space they want in the middle...

He is like "more involved" this season compared to last year. Well, maybe due to injury faced by Diaz and Jota by the way, but still - he's like a glue in Klopp's formation.

[rob1966]

That header at the weekend isn’t getting the credit it deserves, probably because that’s the quality we expect from Bobby.

Imagine the headlines if Haaland had scored it though.

Ratboy after Haaland does it

[lamonti]

That header at the weekend isn’t getting the credit it deserves, probably because that’s the quality we expect from Bobby.

Imagine the headlines if Haaland had scored it though.

Very poor goalkeeping to be fair.

[rob1966]

Very poor goalkeeping to be fair.

[Aldo1988]

Can't see why him being 30 or 31 matters, his game was never about pace.  I'd deffo give him another contract for 2 maybe 3 more years.  Vital part of the squad and brings something different to the game plan (he's also been banging them in so far this season)

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Can't see why him being 30 or 31 matters, his game was never about pace.  I'd deffo give him another contract for 2 maybe 3 more years.  Vital part of the squad and brings something different to the game plan (he's also been banging them in so far this season)

Plus he's one of the most fun footballers and characters we've ever had, deserves a new contract for that alone.

[Ghost Town]

That header at the weekend isn’t getting the credit it deserves, probably because that’s the quality we expect from Bobby.

The no-look part checks out!

No one encapsulates esprit de corps, joie de vivre and a little je ne sais quoi better than Bobby - and he ain't even French. Plays with a beret on, does Bobby.

Imagine the headlines if Haaland had scored it though.

They'd be all over it in the Darwin Nunez thread (growl)

[number 168]

Very poor goalkeeping to be fair.

He couldn't have expected a header from there and just inside his far post. It was a brilliant header to be fair.

[rob1966]

He couldn't have expected a header from there and just inside his far post. It was a brilliant header to be fair.

Exactly. Ball in from the left, striker moving right to left to go for the header meeting the ball to the left of the penalty spot from the keepers POV, 16 yards out, most times it's going to be headed to the keepers left so keeper adjusts, Bobby instead uses the pace and flicks it in the one place you don't expect it to go, great header

[SamLad]

He couldn't have expected a header from there and just inside his far post. It was a brilliant header to be fair.

I'm not sure if it was a planned move - flick it on to Virgil who made the run but didn't get there.  can't recall seeing Bobby in the corner of the box from that kind of FK before.

[tubby]

It was just smart play from Bobby, he played the percentages.  Same as shooting across the goal so someone could slide in and finish the chance instead of going near post.

Agree that the keeper didn't really cover himself in glory though, it practically went through his hand.