Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm firmly on the side of there's definitely something dodgy going on, but just for balance, this was given as a free kick to us 

Deffo free kick to United there.

Wasn't the only thing the ref fucked up in that game. Also Fernandes and that other dickhead should have got sent off.

Bizarre decisions all over the place.

[Black Bull Nova]

I still think Mac was lucky to escape a red there for creating a situation where he put a player (himself) in danger.

He could have bent Doku's studs there

[Yorkykopite]

Deffo free kick to United there.

Wasn't the only thing the ref fucked up in that game. Also Fernandes and that other dickhead should have got sent off.

Bizarre decisions all over the place.

The emphasis being on "all over the place". A reign of incompetence amongst the referees. Who'd have thought?

And when they're 'found out' - whether by us, or Wolves supporters, or Man United supporters, or whoever - they tend to close ranks and protect themselves. They harbour a huge bias towards their own kind and it makes them defend the most ridiculous mistakes.

It's why VAR should be run by an independent group. A group that doesn't refer to the on-field referee as "mate".

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The emphasis being on "all over the place". A reign of incompetence amongst the referees. Who'd have thought?

And when they're 'found out' - whether by us, or Wolves supporters, or Man United supporters, or whoever - they tend to close ranks and protect themselves. They harbour a huge bias towards their own kind and it makes them defend the most ridiculous mistakes.

It's why VAR should be run by an independent group. A group that doesn't refer to the on-field referee as "mate".

We can agree on that. I've said for years that their main problem is how absolutely unprofessional they are.

[Yorkykopite]

And when they retire they are invited on to TV to judge their former colleagues. That leads to further evasion and obfuscation. It's not directed especially at Liverpool. It's directed towards protecting their "mates".

Incidentally, you get the same thing with football pundits. A player who has recently retired from the game will always make a bad pundit. He will not criticise a former teammate.

[BoRed]

I'm firmly on the side of there's definitely something dodgy going on, but just for balance, this was given as a free kick to us 

But it wasn't reviewed by VAR, it wasn't game-changing, and Howard Webb didn't go on TV to defend it as a correct decision.

[Barneylfc∗]

But it wasn't reviewed by VAR, it wasn't game-changing, and Howard Webb didn't go on TV to defend it as a correct decision.

It'll no doubt be used to argue "these things even themselves out over the season" despite the fact they're 2 very different incidents.

[Yorkykopite]

It'll no doubt be used to argue "these things even themselves out over the season" despite the fact they're 2 very different incidents.

I don't think that's the moral of the story at all - and I haven't heard anyone suggest it is until now.

The moral - if there is one - lies elsewhere. It is that this type of 'high foul' does not always result in a free kick to the man who uses his chest rather than his boot to control the ball. Indeed Maguire seems to have been penalised for going in 'high' with his chest in our last match and a free kick was awarded to Liverpool.

Personally I thought when it happened it was probably a free kick to Man United not us, just as I felt it was a penalty to us against Man City rather than 'play on'. The point is not that the two incidents 'even themselves out'. They clearly don't. A last-minute penalty is a hundred times more precious than an innocuous free kick. The point is that such incidents do not 'speak for themselves' and do not carry an automatic tariff against the footballer who raises his foot.

[farawayred]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but Forest were fined and a coach is banned for a rant at Tierney. In his report, Tierney wrote that the coach called him a "c*nt" at least three times:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/03/every-fing-week-fa-bans-forest-coach-for-furious-rant-after-liverpool-winner/

From now on, I will refer to him as "3cunt Tierney". I hope he doesn't come near our games anymore (I know he has VAR duties the next one).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but Forest were fined and a coach is banned for a rant at Tierney. In his report, Tierney wrote that the coach called him a "c*nt" at least three times:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/03/every-fing-week-fa-bans-forest-coach-for-furious-rant-after-liverpool-winner/

From now on, I will refer to him as "3cunt Tierney". I hope he doesn't come near our games anymore (I know he has VAR duties the next one).

Got to be a chant from that Kop that

"3 c*nt Tierney" to the tune of "Nice one Cyril"

[Barneylfc∗]

Got to be a chant from that Kop that

"3 c*nt Tierney" to the tune of "Nice one Cyril"

 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but Forest were fined and a coach is banned for a rant at Tierney. In his report, Tierney wrote that the coach called him a "c*nt" at least three times:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/03/every-fing-week-fa-bans-forest-coach-for-furious-rant-after-liverpool-winner/

From now on, I will refer to him as "3cunt Tierney". I hope he doesn't come near our games anymore (I know he has VAR duties the next one).

I approve of this.

I once got a 2 game ban for calling myself a c*nt 

[Peabee]

I approve of this.

I once got a 2 game ban for calling myself a c*nt 

I got kicked off a team for scoring a goal. I think it was the way I celebrated and had a go at our forwards along the lines of "that's how you score". But maybe I threw a "c*nt" in there too.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I got kicked off a team for scoring a goal. I think it was the way I celebrated and had a go at our forwards along the lines of "that's how you score". But maybe I threw a "c*nt" in there too.

Was Tierney OK after he picked himself up

[rob1966]

John Brooks was on SSN before, only caught a bit but he said something about giving the right decision and good process. Is that their new phrase now?

[Peabee]

Was Tierney OK after he picked himself up

Some of those Sunday league refs would do a better job than Tierney.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Some of those Sunday league refs would do a better job than Tierney.

That's the thing which I find mind boggling - that in a game that requires ultimate fitness, you have a bunch of 50 year old fat bastards shuffling about, getting most major decisions wrong.

Surely in a Nation as big as the UK and given all the training and all the officials - there must be SOMEONE better than these chumps?

I've had someone say to me "You have a go at refs and linos, but would you be any good at it"

No. Of course I fucking wouldn't I'm heading towards 60, I'm a fat get and I don't know the rules of the game well enough to be a good official at any level, never mind the Premier League.

But that's not my job. I know my limitations. I'd be fucking shite at it. But so are these dickheads.

I'm happy to go along with the idea that they are shite, don't know the rules of the game, aren't fit enough, aren't accountable because their organisation doesn't give a shiny shite about their performance and that they are overall pretty useless.

The question is WHY are they officiating at the top level if they aren't any good at it? They are professional and paid  a fortune. They are hopeless and sadly there are no indications that there is anything happening behind the scenes to correct this, train them better, learn from their mistakes or even have competition for their places.

I'd like to see a league system where the referees can get promoted and relegated down to the conference and make it so that it's how good you are and not who you are mates with, which I'm told is the way it works now - and not from just one ex-ref I know.

[cdav]

https://twitter.com/EduardoHagn/status/1774103045237813458?t=pZfoLeEPYAetqkZTRxp6vQ&s=19

This is given as a penalty and a second yellow card this week, whereas kicking someone in the chest isn't

[JRed]

Could someone please explain to me how Saudi got them two penalties today, yet we didn’t get the one where Doku kicked Mac Allister in the chest? I don’t get it.

[farawayred]

Could someone please explain to me how Saudi got them two penalties today, yet we didn’t get the one where Doku kicked Mac Allister in the chest? I don’t get it.

Their first one could have been called either way, but the second was never a penalty. "Clever play" from the attacker, as the pundits put it.

[GreatEx]

If they'd given it, it would have been the correct call.
If they hadn't given it, it would have been the correct call.
Good process, boys.

[JRed]

Fuckinghell, just saw the Chelsea one too, that’s even worse!

[thaddeus]

Could someone please explain to me how Saudi got them two penalties today, yet we didn’t get the one where Doku kicked Mac Allister in the chest? I don’t get it.

Radio 5 pundits were discussing it.  Ellen White said it was clever play and Pat Nevin said it was cheating and if anything the second one was a West Ham free-kick.  It's come to something when Nevin is the pundit I most agree with.

The Chelsea penalty was another great example of the officials doubling down on a bad decision.  Would they have had to rescind the red card if they'd changed their mind on the penalty?

[KissThisGuy]

The Newcastle one is baffling. The VAR mustve thought it was an obvious error . It's a free out if anything.

[Eeyore]

I don't think that's the moral of the story at all - and I haven't heard anyone suggest it is until now.

The moral - if there is one - lies elsewhere. It is that this type of 'high foul' does not always result in a free kick to the man who uses his chest rather than his boot to control the ball. Indeed Maguire seems to have been penalised for going in 'high' with his chest in our last match and a free kick was awarded to Liverpool.

Personally I thought when it happened it was probably a free kick to Man United not us, just as I felt it was a penalty to us against Man City rather than 'play on'. The point is not that the two incidents 'even themselves out'. They clearly don't. A last-minute penalty is a hundred times more precious than an innocuous free kick. The point is that such incidents do not 'speak for themselves' and do not carry an automatic tariff against the footballer who raises his foot.

No, the huge difference is that the Maguire incident was a subjective call that the referee got wrong. It didn't result in a possible penalty and wasn't reviewed. Trying to equate the incidents is just false equivalence.

The Doku incident is both a possible penalty and a possible red card. It wasn't a case of a referee not seeing an incident and making a mistake in real-time. Attwell and the AVAR had the benefit of multiple angles, multiple replays and slow-motion. The most damning thing is that with all of those tools at their disposal, they got everything wrong.

Attwell stated that both players came in high, he stated that Doku played the ball and then Macca then came into his space. Webb stated that the ball was too low for Doku to head. How could both players come in high but it be too low for Doku to head. Webb stated that Macca didn't really attempt to play the ball either. Macca won the ball FFS.

That was the best they could come up with multiple replays, multiple angles, slow motion and in Webb's case a week to come up with a case for the defence. Good Process.

[Tokyoite]

Could someone please explain to me how Saudi got them two penalties today, yet we didn’t get the one where Doku kicked Mac Allister in the chest? I don’t get it.

I've highlighted one of the reasons for you. The other is called Abu Dhabi 

[rob1966]

No, the huge difference is that the Maguire incident was a subjective call that the referee got wrong. It didn't result in a possible penalty and wasn't reviewed. Trying to equate the incidents is just false equivalence.

The Doku incident is both a possible penalty and a possible red card. It wasn't a case of a referee not seeing an incident and making a mistake in real-time. Attwell and the AVAR had the benefit of multiple angles, multiple replays and slow-motion. The most damning thing is that with all of those tools at their disposal, they got everything wrong.

Attwell stated that both players came in high, he stated that Doku played the ball and then Macca then came into his space. Webb stated that the ball was too low for Doku to head. How could both players come in high but it be too low for Doku to head. Webb stated that Macca didn't really attempt to play the ball either. Macca won the ball FFS.

That was the best they could come up with multiple replays, multiple angles, slow motion and in Webb's case a week to come up with a case for the defence. Good Process.

The AVAR actually questions Atwell, are you sure he touched it? and basically gets told to fuck off and mind his own business by Atwell

[JRed]

The AVAR actually questions Atwell, are you sure he touched it? and basically gets told to fuck off and mind his own business by Atwell

And people still don’t think they’re cheating.

[Knight]

I've asked seven or eight times for people to explain this.

No luck so far. I'm sure that one will reply one day. From now on I'm going to just keep posting this at them til they talk me through it.

We've got the audio, we've got the video, we've got the photographs. We've got the match footage. We've got the Ref, VAR and the PGMOL top guy and we've got the pundits.

All recorded. All available for perusal.

This isn't the whole story. Once someone has explained this away in a rational way, then I have quite a few others they can talk us through.


They both went in high.One with his foot at chest height. One with both feet on the floor.

The idea that the burden of 'explanation' is on those who aren't claiming there's a systemic conspiracy to both stop us winning the league and to gaslight the country into believing it's all above board is silly. Your 'explanation' for all the above is a massive conspiracy... you'll forgive me if I find it difficult to take that very seriously.

[Lad]

I was speechless for the Newcastle second pen. Phillips is midway through a kick to hoof the ball upfield. Gordon unsighted from behind hooks his leg front of Phillips's foot as he's about to strike the ball, as is customary with  he down like a sack of shit in fake agony.
How is that a penalty ?

[Kekule]

The ridiculous thing with that second Newcastle penalty is if the roles were reversed and Philips had tried to tackle from behind, not got the ball and been kicked in the ankle, preventing Gordon from having a shot on goal, then the same people who are saying it’s “clever play” from Gordon in the first instance would be saying it’s clumsy from the defender in the second instance, and a nailed on penalty.

Who’d be a defender eh?

[Fromola]

I was speechless for the Newcastle second pen. Phillips is midway through a kick to hoof the ball upfield. Gordon unsighted from behind hooks his leg front of Phillips's foot as he's about to strike the ball, as is customary with  he down like a sack of shit in fake agony.
How is that a penalty ?

VAR shouldn't be overturning the ref there anyway, they just pick and choose what they get involved with.

Some of the pens given this weekend is what encourages cheating and this pathetic system just makes everything worse.

[Nitramdorf]

I haven't got the energy to watch the Saudi pens but saw the Chelsea one.

It's just so easy to make things better. VAR ref can just whisper in his ear, it's not a penalty or a booking. Play on. Instead they double down, making everything worse. Punishing Burnley twice for someone touching one of their players legs. Then open themselves up to more ridicule. Its mind blowing what it has become,

[Hazell]

https://twitter.com/EduardoHagn/status/1774103045237813458?t=pZfoLeEPYAetqkZTRxp6vQ&s=19

This is given as a penalty and a second yellow card this week, whereas kicking someone in the chest isn't

That is horrendous, possibly worse than not giving Doku's challenge on Mac Allister. Wonder what twisty turny logic Webb and his ilk will apply to justify that one.

[JRed]

That is horrendous, possibly worse than not giving Doku's challenge on Mac Allister. Wonder what twisty turny logic Webb and his ilk will apply to justify that one.

They both came in high to be fair

[Lfc19ynwa]

Just seen MOTD , how is the Everton one not a pen , wtf is the var watching , the Bournemouth player makes no contact with the ball & clearly kicks Calvert-Lewin’s leg from under him , absolute farce

[fowlermagic]

Newcastles first penalty i thought was a joke as Gordon didn't even go for the ball, instead he challenged the defender ignoring the ball. The only one trying to get the ball there was the West Ham player. The art of deception runs deep in Gordon  who is another lad getting all sorts of plaudits from the press just because he's English. His MPG would put him about 7th in our squad.

[GreatEx]

I haven't got the energy to watch the Saudi pens

I don't normally watch Saudi or Emirati highlights but when I heard there were some interesting VAR interventions I decided to break with convention. I encourage you to do the same, it is quite remarkable. Not corruption though, definitely not!

[Yosser0_0]

I'm getting sick to the back teeth of these, I only ever watch Liverpool games now and don't watch or listen to any of the crap surrounding football as it's just farcical now. Even just watching our games leaves me feeling sick afterwards most weeks following yet another clearly and blatantly incorrect decision go against us - I expect it every single week now. I will struggle to bring myself to watch anything next season, we'll see.

I watch a lot of cricket and the DRS system is excellent and when you see it in action it makes you realise just how good the umpires are in terms of the decisions that they actually get right in real time. Yes they make some cock ups but the DRS system is then applied to correct them. The decision making process doesn't seem to involve ego's like I think you see in football, everybody is on the same page in terms of trying to get the correct decision. Sadly I do not think this is the case with football and the whole system has become a circus operated by clowns with no accountability. That disallowed goal in the EFL cup final was a disgrace, it was a question of using any excuse to disallow it. It says something that I watched that with a couple of United fans who were equally shocked at the decision!

I've been looking for alternative entertainment and I watched the St Helens Vs Wigan Good Friday derby - a fantastic match. There were two bad tackles by Wigan players with potential sendings off which went to the video referee which were handled excellently - a breath of fresh air! The first was a head high tackle with a leading elbow, the video ref stated that it was a yellow (Sin bin) as the first contact was the chest and then the head, so not 'quite' as dangerous! The second was a head high tackle with the shoulder and the video ref stating that there were no mitigating circumstances so a red and a sending off. I couldn't believe how clean and smooth the system operated with correct outcome after seeing the PGMOL crap that we have to put up with - how have they got it so wrong? The one thing that they should add to rugby is broadcasting the Ref/Video Ref conversation which is what they have in cricket, oddly the commentators seem to have it though. Surely it could just be piped over the PA like they do in the cricket.

[Garlic Red]

I was speechless for the Newcastle second pen. Phillips is midway through a kick to hoof the ball upfield. Gordon unsighted from behind hooks his leg front of Phillips's foot as he's about to strike the ball, as is customary with  he down like a sack of shit in fake agony.
How is that a penalty ?

Remember the one Spurs got against us a few years ago at Anfield? Was it Lamela on Virgil? Virgil didn’t have a clue, he was trying to clear the ball and he even tried to pull out, think he might have tapped Lamela’s calf (even that was debatable) and they still gave the penalty.

There have been some incredibly soft, shithouse penalties given over the years. Another one that reminds me a bit of is the one Welbeck got against us away at Brighton, think that was against Andy Robbo.

The lawmakers really need to have a think about the morality of some decisions and have a think about what they’re rewarding. The main reason I wanted VAR in all those years ago was to prevent penalties like the one they gave yesterday against West Ham. It is cheating in its purest form by Gordon and it’s probably a foul on Phillips if anything. Anywhere else if you get in front of a player kicking the ball without winning the ball it’s a foul, somehow because Gordon went flying with the theatrics the decision went his way. There needs to be something done about players who deliberately try to win penalties like that, he was never in possession of the ball.