Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[So… Howard Philips]

Probably, as you describe, it was likely first observed in clusters around July 2019. Maybe brought in and cultivated for study; perhaps then poor procedures or containment or carelessness caused it to escape. It's all pointless speculation, but it wouldn't be the first time a situation has been made worse due to lax procedures or poor handling.

The last recorded death from smallpox happened in Birmingham in 1978 because of leakage in a lab.

[reddebs]

Went to the opticians today in town centre - packed with pensioners who've come out in force.

Has there been any talk of what will happen to the huge numbers of illegal immigrants we have in this country and how they would get the vaccine ? The virus doesn't stay away from illegal immigrants, and surely we will need them to come into the chain too. But doesn't seem to be much talk of this.

Do you mean those in detention centres waiting for legal status to stay or do you mean those who work here from the EU that haven't yet applied for residency?

Either way I can't see there being that many of them over 70/80/90 who so far are the ones being vaccinated.

[Barneylfc∗]

Went to the opticians today in town centre - packed with pensioners who've come out in force.

Has there been any talk of what will happen to the huge numbers of illegal immigrants we have in this country and how they would get the vaccine ? The virus doesn't stay away from illegal immigrants, and surely we will need them to come into the chain too. But doesn't seem to be much talk of this.

On a brighter note - excellent primary school nearby which has always been horrendously difficult to get into, has spaces available due a large volume of europeans who haven't come back / returned home. Sister got a place for her child today !

Suppose it was this sort of benefit that people could feel in their everyday lives that was fuel to Brexit.

I smell a rat

[So… Howard Philips]

I smell a rat

A theme is starting to develop?

[fowlermagic]

I may have misheard a newscaster on the radio yesterday but any tourism based on international travelers this year is pretty much written off by the government. That pretty much means I have minimum income for two years running. Whoopty Fuckin' Doo

[TepidT2O]

I may have misheard a newscaster on the radio yesterday but any tourism based on international travelers this year is pretty much written off by the government. That pretty much means I have minimum income for two years running. Whoopty Fuckin' Doo

That’s really sad to hear.  So sorry.

[fowlermagic]

That’s really sad to hear.  So sorry.

It could be worse far worse as long as we have our health but was a tad annoyed to say the least to hear the government may be writing off international travel. You would think once vaccinations are occurring, people could get approval to travel. Its going to be a logistic nightmare but we have to start somewhere otherwise thousands of businesses relying on international tourists can shut their doors for good.

[afc tukrish]

What are these ‘huge numbers of illegal immigrants’?

Illegal ones, too. Mentioned twice, in case you missed it the first time.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Do you mean those in detention centres waiting for legal status to stay or do you mean those who work here from the EU that haven't yet applied for residency?

Either way I can't see there being that many of them over 70/80/90 who so far are the ones being vaccinated.

Perhaps he meant the reported 1.3m that left the UK recently and won’t easily be able to return, despite putting down roots, contributing to the economy and in general being upstanding members of society.  It’s a crying shame that this country has seemingly made them feel that unwelcome.

[12C]

Illegal ones, too. Mentioned twice, in case you missed it the first time.

And “huge numbers” too.

[PaulF]

Ideally they wouldn't do relatives but it's way better than dumping them. Huge fuss that deflects from important news.

Might help sway a few on the fence if the staff are happy to vaccinate family members.  I know we shine the spotlight on the rabid anti-vaxxers , but I'm sure there are those that are perhaps wavering who would get a small bit of reassurance if they know clinicians are confident enough to offer the jabs to mother-in-law

[Elmo!]

Might help sway a few on the fence if the staff are happy to vaccinate family members.  I know we shine the spotlight on the rabid anti-vaxxers , but I'm sure there are those that are perhaps wavering who would get a small bit of reassurance if they know clinicians are confident enough to offer the jabs to mother-in-law

A clinician overly keen to give it to their mother in law might put some people off..... 

[redbyrdz]

I may have misheard a newscaster on the radio yesterday but any tourism based on international travelers this year is pretty much written off by the government. That pretty much means I have minimum income for two years running. Whoopty Fuckin' Doo

Can you do anything with internal tourists? I saw they are predicting a staycation boom for the summer. I wouldn't be surprised, international travel seems difficult and expensive with maybe needing to quarantine either side and pay privatwly for covid tests.

[PaulF]

And “huge numbers” too.

If they are illegal, they probably are undocumented , and uncounted, so really hard to say what the number is (though like most in here I imagine it's tiny).
Moving away from the less pleasant aspect, it's a fair question.  Especially as I expect the vast majority to be in the lower income brackets and a fair number bame. Saving grace is the age profile I guess.

[redbyrdz]

If they are illegal, they probably are undocumented , and uncounted, so really hard to say what the number is (though like most in here I imagine it's tiny).
Moving away from the less pleasant aspect, it's a fair question.  Especially as I expect the vast majority to be in the lower income brackets and a fair number bame. Saving grace is the age profile I guess.

In theory, the NHS shouldn't ask for their passport. However, its unlikely that anyone here illegally will be registered with a GP, so they most likely won't get an invite for the vaccine. Or, if they don't have a passport, they won't be able to show that they meet a certain birthdate or whatever the criteria is. Maybe once the covid vaccine is as easily obtainable as the flu jab, they can just walk into a pharmacy and ask for it, but in reality anyone undocumented is usually staying as far away as possible from situations where they might need to show any sort of ID.

[redbyrdz]

Saw on the news that vaccines minister Zahawi said once the top four priority groups have been vaccinated, restrictions can be eased from about March. What about the rest of us? I don't really fancy catching covid either, even though I'm unlikely to die from it.

[Fromola]

Saw on the news that vaccines minister Zahawi said once the top four priority groups have been vaccinated, restrictions can be eased from about March. What about the rest of us? I don't really fancy catching covid either, even though I'm unlikely to die from it.

It'll be back to the tier system for a while.

[El Denzel Pepito]

Saw on the news that vaccines minister Zahawi said once the top four priority groups have been vaccinated, restrictions can be eased from about March. What about the rest of us? I don't really fancy catching covid either, even though I'm unlikely to die from it.

Pretty much how I feel.

With the weather changing as well, we're all going to be expected to be out and about mixing together as normal, when really, nothing has actually changed for the majority of people re potentially getting the virus, getting long COVID or having any complications.

Once these current restrictions change even slightly, I'll be expected back in the office, commuting 2 hours a day on the tube, when in reality nothing has actually changed for me, not until I get vaccinated. Yes, I may not give it to someone 80+ who could potentially die, but my risk of getting it is just the same as now if cases remain elevated throughout the next few months. Having been a smoker for 10+ years I don't particularly fancy getting it, despite my age.

[Fromola]

Pretty much how I feel.

With the weather changing as well, we're all going to be expected to be out and about mixing together as normal, when really, nothing has actually changed for the majority of people re potentially getting the virus, getting long COVID or having any complications.

Once these current restrictions change even slightly, I'll be expected back in the office, commuting 2 hours a day on the tube, when in reality nothing has actually changed for me, not until I get vaccinated. Yes, I may not give it to someone 80+ who could potentially die, but my risk of getting it is just the same as now if cases remain elevated throughout the next few months.

The key is keeping workplaces Covid secure while the vaccines are rolled out, but even at the moment many aren't. Something for the unions to be strong on.

Beyond work nobody is compelled to go out and mix. But you don't have the choice if the boss demands you back to.the open plan office.

We need more things opened up and businesses etc, but younger adults can't just be sitting ducks before they get the vaccine.

[BobPaisley3]

Remind me, is it now 12 weeks max between first dose and second?

[AmSeeker]

And “huge numbers” too.

I'm currently in Birmingham. Huge volumes of illegal immigrants around here, some my own friends, who have been living 'underground in the system' for years. Some elderly.

It's worth talking about whether we give an amnesty to all illegal immigrants in this country and give them some form of right to be here - as a one off, so they take the vaccine. Official estimates there could be up to 500,000 to a 1,000,000 illegal immigrants in the country. We simply can't ignore them.

[ljycb]

Saw on the news that vaccines minister Zahawi said once the top four priority groups have been vaccinated, restrictions can be eased from about March. What about the rest of us? I don't really fancy catching covid either, even though I'm unlikely to die from it.

This is how I am about it. Luckily we’re working from home for good now so I can just keep locking down even when restrictions have eased. I’m very fortunate in that sense though.

[Bobsackamano]

I'm currently in Birmingham. Huge volumes of illegal immigrants around here, some my own friends, who have been living 'underground in the system' for years. Some elderly.

It's worth talking about whether we give an amnesty to all illegal immigrants in this country and give them some form of right to be here - as a one off, so they take the vaccine. Official estimates there could be up to 500,000 to a 1,000,000 illegal immigrants in the country. We simply can't ignore them.

The Tory party is in power so there will be no amnesty for illegal immigrants. Their policy seems to be expel as many people as possible. Since there is zero chance of that changing i doubt talking about an amnesty is worth anything more than any other hypothetical conversation.

It would be daft not to offer the vaccine to all residents in the UK (illegal or not) however thats not a guarantee it will happen.

[Oh Campione]

I'm currently in Birmingham. Huge volumes of illegal immigrants around here, some my own friends, who have been living 'underground in the system' for years. Some elderly.

It's worth talking about whether we give an amnesty to all illegal immigrants in this country and give them some form of right to be here - as a one off, so they take the vaccine. Official estimates there could be up to 500,000 to a 1,000,000 illegal immigrants in the country. We simply can't ignore them.

If you have joined this form just to repeatedly talk about illegal immigration I'm not sure this is the place for you

[fowlermagic]

Can you do anything with internal tourists? I saw they are predicting a staycation boom for the summer. I wouldn't be surprised, international travel seems difficult and expensive with maybe needing to quarantine either side and pay privatwly for covid tests.

80% of the business is from the States and the rest from Europe. Even if Ireland allow Europeans to travel it would be something but I cant see that happening too easily as realistically they will have to contain travel for a while to curb the virus. Airlines will not offer routes if capacity is below a certain %...think it has to be mostly full for them to make money. The Irish tourist kept the doors open and hopefully will do the same this year but continuous closures surely will be the final nail in many a door.

[Robinred]

If you have joined this form just to repeatedly talk about illegal immigration I'm not sure this is the place for you

My first instinct on seeing those posts was the same as yours.

But this post carries an explanation, poses a valid question, and on balance I think we should give the poster the benefit of that earlier doubt.

[filopastry]

[Fromola]

This is how I am about it. Luckily we’re working from home for good now so I can just keep locking down even when restrictions have eased. I’m very fortunate in that sense though.

The key for people is work. Beyond that it's up to individuals how they choose to mix, but if you have to work then you're in thrall to your employers.

If you're 40-odd and you've had your life on hold for a year, then you might rather wait it out for another couple of months until you'd have the vaccine, once you get to Easter.

[classycarra]

Can we at least move away from discussing it with the same discompassionate and deliberately exclusionary/dehumanising language that the right wing use to stoke up nationalistic differences between people?

No human's existence is illegal. The people being discussed are undocumented migrants.

Given the way the Home Office, by policy, treats even documented migrants I think we can all agree it's fully rational for people to be concerned about coming forwards to engage with the health system over here. The health system itself has sadly become more exclusionary by Tory policy in recent years, although had some successes in fighting to retain anonymity of some migrant health data that Home Office demanded. But as a system is also not good/idle (particularly GP level) accommodating those with no fixed abode (for whatever reason, including rough sleeping and undocumented migration).

Reaching people who are rationally concerned about coming forward to register for a vaccine is going to be important for everyone. Destigmatising their existence, including in how we refer to them, is one of the first steps.

[rob1966]

I'm currently in Birmingham. Huge volumes of illegal immigrants around here, some my own friends, who have been living 'underground in the system' for years. Some elderly.

It's worth talking about whether we give an amnesty to all illegal immigrants in this country and give them some form of right to be here - as a one off, so they take the vaccine. Official estimates there could be up to 500,000 to a 1,000,000 illegal immigrants in the country. We simply can't ignore them.

You bring up a very valid point. We cannot ignore the fact that there are undocumented migrants here and that we do need to offer the vaccine to these people too. Its going to be very very hard to get them to take it up though, they would need a cast iron guarantee that they will not be deported, but they will never get it from this Government. The Express and the Mail and their readers will be having heart attacks (fatal hopefully) at the mere thought of "illegals" (undocumented migrants) getting free NHS vaccinations.

[PaulF]

The Express and the Mail and their readers will be having heart attacks (fatal hopefully) at the mere thought of "illegals" (undocumented migrants) getting free NHS vaccinations.

Seems like a good reason to do it.

[F-T-9]

I'm still hearing of people flying out...are there literally no checks at the airports??

[Commie Bobbie]

It could be worse far worse as long as we have our health but was a tad annoyed to say the least to hear the government may be writing off international travel. You would think once vaccinations are occurring, people could get approval to travel. Its going to be a logistic nightmare but we have to start somewhere otherwise thousands of businesses relying on international tourists can shut their doors for good.

Not just that, but some of us want a chance to get off this c*nt of an island - if only for a week or so.

Can we at least move away from discussing it with the same discompassionate and deliberately exclusionary/dehumanising language that the right wing use to stoke up nationalistic differences between people?

No human's existence is illegal. The people being discussed are undocumented migrants.

Given the way the Home Office, by policy, treats even documented migrants I think we can all agree it's fully rational for people to be concerned about coming forwards to engage with the health system over here. The health system itself has sadly become more exclusionary by Tory policy in recent years, although had some successes in fighting to retain anonymity of some migrant health data that Home Office demanded. But as a system is also not good/idle (particularly GP level) accommodating those with no fixed abode (for whatever reason, including rough sleeping and undocumented migration).

Reaching people who are rationally concerned about coming forward to register for a vaccine is going to be important for everyone. Destigmatising their existence, including in how we refer to them, is one of the first steps.

All of this.

The Express and the Mail and their readers will be having heart attacks (fatal hopefully) at the mere thought of "illegals" (undocumented migrants) getting free NHS vaccinations.

No bad thing. Those two papers as well as others have taken this country decades. Pondslime.

[Macphisto80]

And “huge numbers” too.

A "swarm"?

Maybe he means refugees?

[redbyrdz]

A "swarm"?

Maybe he means refugees?

There aren't "huge numbers" of refugees in the UK either. The UK lets in a ln embrassing small number of refugees.

[No666]

A basic question that I know someone on here will be able to answer in a way I'll understand:
Who does the UK government owe the Covid debt to? Did we borrow the funds from elsewhere or did we print it? If the latter, why do we have to pay it back?

[Elmo!]

A basic question that I know someone on here will be able to answer in a way I'll understand:
Who does the UK government owe the Covid debt to? Did we borrow the funds from elsewhere or did we print it? If the latter, why do we have to pay it back?

Same as other government debt. They issue bonds which are basically IOUs. These pay very low interest but are very low risk so tend to be bought by pension funds, investment banks etc.

Pension funds have to invest certain amounts into very low risk products - especially for people who are approaching retirement so bonds serve that purpose.

It's a bit more complicated than that and involves other things but that is the main thing (I'm no expert).

[Macphisto80]

There aren't "huge numbers" of refugees in the UK either. The UK lets in a ln embrassing small number of refugees.

Yeah, official ones. I refuse to call them illegal or migrants. Call them what they are: refugees. But that's a bit of a dirty word these days, especially when it comes to people from countries a government is complicit in funding or fueling war in. Maybe he just meant other 'Europeans', though? Oh, wait....

[rob1966]

There aren't "huge numbers" of refugees in the UK either. The UK lets in a ln embrassing small number of refugees.

We do, but there are estimated to be anything up to 1.2 million people who we don't actually know are here. Some of these will have been fleeing from the likes of Iraq, Iran and Syria.

[Macphisto80]

A basic question that I know someone on here will be able to answer in a way I'll understand:
Who does the UK government owe the Covid debt to? Did we borrow the funds from elsewhere or did we print it? If the latter, why do we have to pay it back?

Don't forget the queen and the royals. She lost a few bob there, bless her silk socks. She'll be looking it back...off the working tax payer of course.