Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[TSC]

It is interesting to wonder how big an impact Covid had on the US election. You'd assume that those who voted for Trump in 2016 wouldn't have a massive issue with the whole drinking bleach thing, but I'm sure the pandemic itself didn't help. Covid is the kind of weird, stark inconvenience that's hard to spin positively for a sitting President - or to blame on somebody else.

Covid itself wasn’t the issue.  As you note that’s a challenge.  But more to do with management of it, or, in the case of Trump, the non-management of it.  In terms of political leaders the one constant with Covid is that it highlights competence and exposes incompetence.  For Trump see Bolsonaro, Modi et al.

Not for this thread anyway.

[TSC]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/08/labours-khalid-mahmood-says-party-has-become-london-centric

Same line peddled by Burnham today.

[oldfordie]

Yeah, the whole "they're all as bad as each other" has always felt like an easy let-off for the Tories specifically. This is obviously less true of the US, but there is an ideological difference between the UK's two biggest party, which is why the notion of a "floating voter" in the UK has always been odd to me.

It's as if people take the Tories being bad as a given and judge them accordingly.

The all as bad as each other insult doesn't even make sense but it's a simple peice of logic that must stay with people all their lives. very sad, as you say all Johnsons lies and cons can be excused with they are all as bad as each other.
I never take much notice of the Tory manifesto or the bull, state they put forward to convince the public of the amazing job they have done in the previous 5 yrs in power. it's always the same, chop chop chop yet the floating voters sit and listen to the bull.. and like the sound of it and the Torys get in again. it only ever seems to happen in politics.

[Libertine]

Labour gain both the West of England and Cambridgeshire/Peterborough Mayoralties from the Tories.

Maybe the hot takes from the elections should wait until the actual results?

[diggerling!]

Labour/corbyn supporters are saying it. Otherwise why are they calling everyone slightly to the right of them tories?

You seemed to be suggesting Labour should continue to move to the right. I suggested that maybe that wasn’t such a good idea because the evidence from the last general election (and the one before that) is that leftist policies are pretty popular with the public. Elections, however, aren’t just won and lost on policy, (although it does help if you have some) which is where Labour’s lack of authenticity has repeatedly bitten them on the arse.

[oldfordie]

Good post Doc. Very astute on Johnson. Blair's never worked for me either. A bit too drippy. But he did have the capacity to make people hope for better things, which is half the trick of politics.

Big question though. Perhaps genuine passion - of the Kinnock kind say - is impossible in politics now? And perhaps we're all to blame for that. Forty of fifty years of political satire aimed at the Establishment has done for it. The British public is more liable to laugh at a passionate politician than want to follow him or her. We are all too ironic for that now maybe.

And before anyone says Corbyn showed passion....no he didn't. His mien was a bank manager's mien.  Not even that actually. He was the bloke that filed the bank manager's letters. (Nasal whine: "Mr Blenkinsopp, I've put the correspondence about Mrs Sutcliffe's overdraft in the buff folder next to her grey folder in the filing cabinet number fourteen. And you have a meeting at 2.30 with Hezbollah. Thank you.")

I still would have liked to see Corbyn and his brother on Spitting Image though.
"Will you let me finish."
"Stop interrupting me when am talking."
"Will you let me finish."
"Stop interrupting me when am talking."
"Will you let me finish."

[west_london_red]

Same line peddled by Burnham today.

Yup, and it’s exactly why i don’t think I’d ever support him for leader. He was poor in 2015 and seems to jump on bandwagons quite readily from what I have seen, and always quite happy to dump on London.

[Commie Bobbie]

Take this with an entire bag of salt - but....

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1391089177324818433

Sienna Rodgers
@siennamarla

Angela Rayner being sacked as party chair. Wow.

[Wild Romany Boy]

After a depressing day, I'm quite cheered by the fact that even a lovely forum like this has such truly awful takes.

Biden won because he used every resource at his disposal to ensure mass turnout at a time when Trump was vulnerable because of his poor handling of Covid. Starmer has to work like that or he is toast.

You have to convince the jury now, not the judge.

[west_london_red]

This is without London, and a fair few other results, but since 2018 swing from Tories to Labour has been 7.5% in core cities (including London it's 12 major regional population and economic centres) but 6.5% from Labour to Tories in large towns (population 75k+, 102 of them I think). I'm not sure that some of the talking heads being put on my telly these past couple of days realise that the remedy they recommend was already tried during this period. Question is whether those in Starmer's office planning what he's doing have the right answer on the 'how' of it.

I was thinking about this earlier, I follow politics pretty closely compared to probably 90% of people, I read online news all the time, the BBC News is pretty constantly on in the background at home when I’m working, I listen to LBC a fair bit if I am in the car, I am a member of affiliated trade union and member of the Labour Party for about 15 years so I’d like to think I have a reasonable idea what’s going on, and I really have no idea even what the strap line is. In the past we had ‘for the many, not the few’ the Tories have their ‘levelling up’ and ‘build back better’ lines that they constantly trot out, and I have no idea what ours are, and if people like me don’t know how the hell are people in the country who follow this less then the likes of me supposed to know?!?!

[west_london_red]

After a depressing day, I'm quite cheered by the fact that even a lovely forum like this has such truly awful takes.

Biden won because he used every resource at his disposal to ensure mass turnout at a time when Trump was vulnerable because of his poor handling of Covid. Starmer has to work like that or he is toast.

You have to convince the jury now, not the judge.

I wouldn’t underestimate the impact on timing in relation to vaccinations as to how the US election went in Jan and Thursdays vote went for us. If this election was happening when there were 2,000 people dying a day of Covid I promise you results would have been very different, and likewise if the US election was taking place today Trump may not have won but it would have been a lot closer now the vaccines are freely flowing in the US.

[Commie Bobbie]

What does the role of chair entail?

I always thought it would more of a ceremonial role - saying that she was also the National Campaign Co-Ordinator - so probably carrying the can on both counts.

[Snail]

Take this with an entire bag of salt - but....

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1391089177324818433

Sienna Rodgers
@siennamarla

Angela Rayner being sacked as party chair. Wow.

More to come apparently, and mainly from the left / soft left. Unity indeed.

[TepidT2O]

I thought the left hated Angela Rayner…?

How quickly opinions change eh?

[oldfordie]

After a depressing day, I'm quite cheered by the fact that even a lovely forum like this has such truly awful takes.

Biden won because he used every resource at his disposal to ensure mass turnout at a time when Trump was vulnerable because of his poor handling of Covid. Starmer has to work like that or he is toast.

You have to convince the jury now, not the judge.

I would of thought Stacy Abrams takes the credit for the mass turn out for the many campaigns she orginised in lots of important States, she certainly got it in the US.

[Elmo!]

Labour can't help themselves can they?

[Zeb]

What does the role of chair entail?

Currently it's the person responsible for running campaigns. So don't take election advice from the last one, Ian Lavery, although to be fair it has been a very nominal position in reality. It shouldn't really be an MP anyway - ideally you'd want someone able to focus on it full time with a decent track record away from being the candidate if the remit remains as it currently is.

----

I was thinking about this earlier, I follow politics pretty closely compared to probably 90% of people, I read online news all the time, the BBC News is pretty constantly on in the background at home when I’m working, I listen to LBC a fair bit if I am in the car, I am a member of affiliated trade union and member of the Labour Party for about 15 years so I’d like to think I have a reasonable idea what’s going on, and I really have no idea even what the strap line is. In the past we had ‘for the many, not the few’ the Tories have their ‘levelling up’ and ‘build back better’ lines that they constantly trot out, and I have no idea what ours are, and if people like me don’t know how the hell are people in the country who follow this less then the likes of me supposed to know?!?!

It's a fair point. At the same time, is there usually one for locals anyway? Khan will have run on his own merits as much as Burnham or Rotheram did, rather than it being nationally organised. There was some weird organisational issues more recently but don't think it changed to much in that sense?

[Snail]

Labour can't help themselves can they?

I mean, no one is forcing Starmer to do this.

[Commie Bobbie]

I mean, no one is forcing Starmer to do this.

So in short, ignore their triumphs.

Really fucking makes sense.

[OOS]

I always thought it would more of a ceremonial role - saying that she was also the National Campaign Co-Ordinator - so probably carrying the can on both counts.

I really like Angela. She's got a massive part in the future of Labour. I have no doubt she will included in the shadow cabinet in the upcoming reshuffle.

We wanted decisive action from leadership following these elections. The campaign was crap, hopefully we get the much needed change Kier said would happen. Think its better to wait and see before everyone losses their heads.

[Elmo!]

The Greens missed out on a second seat in Glasgow region by 0.2%.

The Electoral Commission allowed an actual fascist to register a party with the name Independent Green Scotland, which appeared higher up the list on the ballot paper. They got way more votes than other similar brand new fringe parties.

Anecdotally I have read a lot of people saying they are pretty sure they accidentally voted for the wrong party.

Farcical from the Electoral Commission when they were very fussy over Galloways parties name.

[Zeb]

Makes sense if Rayner gets a shadow cabinet position instead and chair becomes a professional organiser focused on campaigns. Or it could be utterly braindead start to a broader reshuffle. Money is on first but wait and see.

[Dr. Beaker]

I mean, no one is forcing Starmer to do this.

Maybe it was the change that needed changing.

[TepidT2O]

Makes sense if Rayner gets a shadow cabinet position instead and chair becomes a professional organiser focused on campaigns. Or it could be utterly braindead start to a broader reshuffle. Money is on first but wait and see.

Talk that Starmer has been very upset with off the record briefing by her…

So maybe the unity issue is hers?  I suspect we won’t really know for a long while

[OOS]

Talk that Starmer has been very upset with off the record briefing by her…

So maybe the unity issue is hers?  I suspect we won’t really know for a long while

I think she will be brought into the shadow cabinet, but its a shit way of going about it ... sums up Labour to be honest.

I'd move on the shadow home sec, I can't even remember his name, get Cooper or Benn back in the fold.

[Dr. Beaker]

Makes sense if Rayner gets a shadow cabinet position instead and chair becomes a professional organiser focused on campaigns. Or it could be utterly braindead start to a broader reshuffle. Money is on first but wait and see.

Dom's looking for a job.

[west_london_red]

It's a fair point. At the same time, is there usually one for locals anyway? Khan will have run on his own merits as much as Burnham or Rotheram did, rather than it being nationally organised. There was some weird organisational issues more recently but don't think it changed to much in that sense?

No, i don’t think there’s usually one specifically for local elections but in general the party should have that line that nicely sums up what the party is about, and right now it doesn’t feel like the party is for anything. We have to remember the impact of the pandemic in everything, there is no getting away from that so maybe there is a whole raft of announcements and policies that are being sat upon until things get back to normal and if that’s the case then fair enough but the party just feels a bit ‘meh’ at the moment and we have to get out of that rut.

[TepidT2O]

I think she will be brought into the shadow cabinet, but its a shit way of going about it ... sums up Labour to be honest

I suspect  there’s more behind this than we know ….

Time will tell if this is a good move or not.

[Zeb]

Talk that Starmer has been very upset with off the record briefing by her…

So maybe the unity issue is hers?  I suspect we won’t really know for a long while

The briefing has just landed on twitter since I posted, seems to be moving her to Shadow Cabinet and an organisational change for campaigns is the answer.  Otherwise Marie le Conte has it about right:

[April 2020]

Keir Starmer: I am going to unite the party!

[a year passes]

against ME

especially if someone like Nandy gets demoted as part of a reshuffle.

[Snail]

Nandy’s for the chop and all apparently.

[TepidT2O]

Can either of them play centre back?

[Zeb]

No, i don’t think there’s usually one specifically for local elections but in general the party should have that line that nicely sums up what the party is about, and right now it doesn’t feel like the party is for anything. We have to remember the impact of the pandemic in everything, there is no getting away from that so maybe there is a whole raft of announcements and policies that are being sat upon until things get back to normal and if that’s the case then fair enough but the party just feels a bit ‘meh’ at the moment and we have to get out of that rut.

Yeah. Although it reflects reality of a contested future I suppose. There is policy work going on. Stuff which got handwaved in the past too, such as what form exactly benefit reform will take. It's still very much in 'taking soundings' stage though - much as I really appreciate the effort from some of the front bench in doing it. Hard to really square making 'new' announcements with commitments not to diverge too greatly from earlier manifestos. The fluffier sounding bits have already been coopted by government, whatever reality underneath. Don't know, know what you mean and are saying, just personally waiting on Starmer getting to grips with the fundamental question of which direction to take before then tailoring message to suit. It's all been very gentle so far, almost letter of the law in places. Friend's been quoting Wilson on stagecoaches for the past couple of days. May have a point that just a sense of urgency/speed is needed just to stop us all getting out to have an argument.

[Commie Bobbie]

Nandy’s for the chop and all apparently.

They're gonna get the band back together aren't they.

[Snail]

They're gonna get the band back together aren't they.

Reeks of Mandelson.

[OOS]

Raynor as shadow home sec would be decent.

[Commie Bobbie]

Reeks of Mandelson.

Didn't want to say his name, but yep. And his mate.

[west_london_red]

Didn't want to say his name, but yep. And his mate.

Anything actually suggesting that other then your suspicions?

[killer-heels]

Is Raynor getting another role or has she just been sacked? Absolutely mad if its the latter.

[gazzalfc]

Is Raynor getting another role or has she just been sacked? Absolutely mad if its the latter.

She will get a new role in the shadow cabinet. She can't be sacked as deputy leader as that is an elected role

[killer-heels]

She will get a new role in the shadow cabinet. She can't be sacked as deputy leader as that is an elected role

Thank god for that.