Author Topic: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell  (Read 445051 times)

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #280 on: August 15, 2016, 07:43:00 pm »
There was nothing to suggest Milner was likely to start if he was fit .

If anything the quotes  where that he was considered as back up
There's as much proof to show that Milner was due to start left back as there is Klopp being happy with Moreno tactically.
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Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #281 on: August 15, 2016, 07:43:32 pm »
Apart from the Arsenal game where he mostly played as a 3rd CB , Gomez mostly struggled at LB before the injury
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #282 on: August 15, 2016, 07:44:35 pm »
Can understand people's frustration with Moreno..
But let's have a little faith in the manager eh.. because he keeps picking Moreno in his starting line up.. and it's been his decision to sell Brad Smith and not buy a replacement..

F*CK 0FF Mourinho..

Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #283 on: August 15, 2016, 07:45:03 pm »
There's as much proof to show that Milner was due to start left back as there is Klopp being happy with Moreno tactically.
The proof is that Klopp didn't decide to sign also replacement.

And there are actual quotes from Milner himself about being back up left back .
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Offline del potro

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #284 on: August 15, 2016, 07:45:12 pm »
Apart from the Arsenal game where he mostly played as a 3rd CB , Gomez mostly struggled at LB before the injury
That isn't true at all, in my opinion at least.. he looks brilliant.

Offline Zoomers

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #285 on: August 15, 2016, 07:49:08 pm »
Milner doesn't have the pace in him anymore to push that fast that early on the counter :lmao

Seriously though I would have James Milner at LB when fit. Not ideal at all, I want a left Back to be playing left back. When does Gomez return from injury? He had a real good head of composure on him from what I saw at the start of last season.

The same Gomez who got annihilated by West Ham? And as someone else said, he's not even a left back.
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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #286 on: August 15, 2016, 07:50:10 pm »
If you're going to make an argument at least keep it grounded in some form of reality rather than recycling some Gary Neville Sky Sports 'look at me' bollocks

If Moreno is a "very bad player" why didn't Jurgen Klopp who happens to be a 'very good judge of a player' sell him in the summer?

He's rash and he makes mistakes.
He also has good qualities and is one of the most explosive full backs in the league.
He probably shouldn't be our first choice left back...we probably should buy another one.....Beyond that there's nothing to merit the level of hysteria in here

This.  I don't get the hysteria at all. I guess that's modern football for you.
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Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #287 on: August 15, 2016, 07:51:06 pm »
That isn't true at all, in my opinion at least.. he looks brilliant.
Stoke Game - He mistimes the aerial challenge that results in Walters running off with the ball and results in an easy chance for Glen Johnson which he skied.

He generally struggled in the united game before giving the penalty.W as poor agaianst west ham as well but that's mostly the Lovren show
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Offline del potro

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #288 on: August 15, 2016, 07:54:09 pm »
Stoke Game - He mistimes the aerial challenge that results in Walters running off with the ball and results in an easy chance for Glen Johnson which he skied.
Wow! an 18 year old made one error which allowed the opposition a shot at goal.. lynch him! you need to take a long hard look in the mirror mate, because that is shocking ^

he only played a hand full of times, but when he did he looked like a giant on the pitch, cool and calm in posession, defensively sound and absolutely willing to move the ball forward at the first opportunity. For a kid playing for Liverpool for the first few times, he looked like he belonged.

such a shame he is getting fked over by injuries
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 07:55:43 pm by del potro »

Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #289 on: August 15, 2016, 07:58:06 pm »
Wow! an 18 year old made one error which allowed the opposition a shot at goal.. lynch him! you need to take a long hard look in the mirror mate, because that is shocking ^
Where did I say lynch ? Or even where I criticized him ?Poor reading comprehension ?

The problem was playing a 18 year old with zero experience at Left back (never played left back even in championship) and who is right footed and playing him in PL .
It's not his fault but that doesn't mean he was good at that position.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #290 on: August 15, 2016, 07:58:49 pm »
All well and good.....but it was Lallana who gave it away.
Cheers mate. Truth be told, I was watching on a very pixellated download of the game with russian commentary. I could barely tell the difference between Mané and Mignolet at times >D
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #291 on: August 15, 2016, 08:04:43 pm »
Cheers mate. Truth be told, I was watching on a very pixellated download of the game with russian commentary. I could barely tell the difference between Mané and Mignolet at times >D

Mginolet was the one moving too little....Moreno was the one moving too much ;)

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #292 on: August 15, 2016, 08:06:23 pm »
I liked him when he first signed. He was a bit wet behind the ears defensively, but I thought he looked like a good prospect. For a 22 year old in a new league, I was quite impressed with his overall contribution. I'll say one thing for him, he's not afraid to look for the ball, get on it, and bomb forward.

But as others have quite rightly pointed out, he's 24 now. One would have expected him to have curbed his rashness and have ironed out some of his defensive weaknesses by now.

I like Moreno, but I still think he's alarmingly prone to brain farting in crucial situations. Then again, that being said, I wouldn't discount the lad just yet. If anyone can instill some discipline in him then its Klopp

Heck, Lucas was getting booed of the pitch when he was Moreno's age. And he proved a lot of doubters wrong in the end. Hopefully Moreno will too
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #293 on: August 15, 2016, 08:13:40 pm »
Hey Babu!

First, it was Coutinho who played Lallana (who got stripped by Coquellin and then to Iwobi).  Second, I think we do have a sample size of Moreno getting forward too quickly from the back third --- Villarreal is one and seem to recall a few more (I want to say at Hull 2 years ago as well --- although we tend to blame the one who turns it over --- quite rightly, Moreno just got done conceding a pen....  not the best time to start charging forward). 

Second, whatever Moreno is doing, it is not easily fixed.  As most here suggest, there is a strong psychological component to this particular player which causes repeated and I mean repeated fuck ups in crucial situations.  We all know he is fast.  We all know he is hard.   But the pace comes at a cost as he very quickly gets out of position and exposed.  And his hardness comes at a cost of recklessness.  He should be much better than he is, but he is a bit of a meathead... I call this Napolean's complex --- little guy needs to prove he is man on the pitch.  Well, why he is proving he is a man we are getting scored upon and giving up senseless plays of position and possession.

Time to make a more permanent change... again there are at least 15 plays to point to in his career where one and done should have been enough (and learning takes place).  The evidence suggests it has not and will not.  To have faith in his development is to more information than the informed supporter gets.

Cheers for the reply.

On Moreno, I believe Klopp wants 1 steady full back and 1 risk taker. Ignore why for a second.

When you think of what a risk taker looks like, he needs explosiveness to go and recover, bravery, aggression.

Why? - he needs to be our legs on the counter on the left hand side. That is why he bombs past Coutinho on transitions. I believe how Klopp is looking at this is that our transitions are a problem. And Moreno is more exposed than most as he is the risk taker in his defence. He could tell Moreno to stop - but then that causes us other problems tactically on the counter. Or he can drill the side until we are masters of the transitions like at Dortmund.

In addition, to set pressing traps successfully he needs those things for the full back to bet on himself getting to the ball before the winger when the trap is active. If he just keeps his position and marks the winger, he has an easy job getting the ball and thus the trap is ineffective. Also the explosiveness to get down the flank and cover if the passing trap fails and the team turns out of it and down the flank.

There are consequences to having such a player, and we are seeing them nice and brightly right now. But the fact remains I think Klopp wants a player like this in his team. Not two steady dependable full backs. Klopp will believe with training he can iron out the problems with Moreno that come down to "he isnīt very smart, is he?" simply because you can train a grunt into being an elite soldier. Itīs just training training and training. Combined with the time to get our transitions right also, Morenoīs problems will stop being exacerbated by the system and his own personal struggles should decrease over time.

Whether this happens or not is another thing entirely. But I am sure this is how he is looking at the situation right now. If he wanted a Hector for left back, he would bin Moreno quick. Therefore he either believes in himself to use coaching to solve this problem, or there is genuinely no better fullbacks available who are what he wants for the role.
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #294 on: August 15, 2016, 08:18:06 pm »
I actually think he'd make a better impact player as a sub when we are chasing a game
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #295 on: August 15, 2016, 08:38:27 pm »
Where do you even start with this ?   :butt

Well because of the "innocent until proven guilty" system we are working with, my suggestion would be to provide a counter argument with supporting evidence why you believe he is at fault for 1/all of the goals.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #296 on: August 15, 2016, 08:41:24 pm »
When we're using Milner as a makeshift left back when he's fit again that'll tell you all what Klopp thinks of Moreno

Just so we ware absolutely clear, you are predicting a future that may or may not happen to support your belief. One which there is actually zero evidence to suggest might actually happen.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #297 on: August 15, 2016, 08:45:49 pm »
The proof is that Klopp didn't decide to sign also replacement.

And there are actual quotes from Milner himself about being back up left back .
I'd like to see those quotes, the only ones I recall was him saying Klopp asked him whether he'd play fullback. There was a fair amount of belief in the press that Milner was going to start left back and he also started our last two 'proper' friendlies.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 08:51:19 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Offline owens_2k

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #298 on: August 15, 2016, 08:58:42 pm »
Moreno's flaws are all mental for me. He has all the physical attributes to be a great fullback. He also made a rash tackle a few minutes before giving the pen away and got lucky with it, he just seems brain dead at times. They say all the top players have that little edge to them but moreno's is just toeing the wrong side of the line.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #299 on: August 15, 2016, 09:11:38 pm »
I liked him when he first signed. He was a bit wet behind the ears defensively, but I thought he looked like a good prospect. For a 22 year old in a new league, I was quite impressed with his overall contribution. I'll say one thing for him, he's not afraid to look for the ball, get on it, and bomb forward.

But as others have quite rightly pointed out, he's 24 now. One would have expected him to have curbed his rashness and have ironed out some of his defensive weaknesses by now.

I like Moreno, but I still think he's alarmingly prone to brain farting in crucial situations. Then again, that being said, I wouldn't discount the lad just yet. If anyone can instill some discipline in him then its Klopp

Heck, Lucas was getting booed of the pitch when he was Moreno's age. And he proved a lot of doubters wrong in the end. Hopefully Moreno will too

Great post!
Agree with all aspects of your post, and like yourself, I'm hopeful of the future with Moreno at LB. He doesn't have to be smart, he only has to be disciplined enough as a player to allow Klopp to drill his movements and positioning into him. I think by the end of the season, Moreno would have quietened all talk about another LB. (And no, not because he would have failed miserably to stake his claim. The opposite!)
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #300 on: August 15, 2016, 09:57:51 pm »
To be fair to Moreno, the first goal was not on him. We won the ball in defense, he started a run up his flank and then coquelin makes a really good tackle to win the ball of Lallana (I think). No way Moreno has time to get back. If anything, that goal was down to loosing the ball in such a dangerous position in Midfield, as we are moving players up the pitch.

As for the poor header (which he then sorts out with a tackle), the penalty situation etc... Yeah, I'm not his biggest fan but of course I'll get behind the lad on the pitch. Maybe Klopp can improve him.

Offline B0151?

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #301 on: August 15, 2016, 10:00:56 pm »
Yeah, when I looked at the replays after the match, with the win in hand, the goal didn't really bother me so much. It looked like it was part of a deliberate team tactic to bomb on and try and create those fast transition counter attacking situations. I'm sure there will have been things we should have done better in that goal (mainly not give the ball away!) but would agree I don't think it was a brain fart.

The penalty is impossible to defend though.

Offline Nottsred

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #302 on: August 15, 2016, 10:14:33 pm »
As much as I agree that he had a poor game on Sunday Gary Neville took great delight in highlighting every single move he made on that football pitch. The autopsy was too deep and uncalled for, from a manager who has failed big time with both Valencia and England unfortunately his opinions do not hold much water with me.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #303 on: August 15, 2016, 10:18:07 pm »
As much as I agree that he had a poor game on Sunday Gary Neville took great delight in highlighting every single move he made on that football pitch. The autopsy was too deep and uncalled for, from a manager who has failed big time with both Valencia and England unfortunately his opinions do not hold much water with me.

Yep, that was a fucking hatchet job. Hopefully whoever on sky does Valencias next televised game destroys that Manc c*nt. "Valencia look much better now the clueless Manc has gone"

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #304 on: August 15, 2016, 10:36:15 pm »
while he puts the effort in then support will always be given, he is a frustrating player and that is the issue. At the end of the day though only he can sort it out or he gets shipped out. They are on too much money for me to care anymore. He has had and will no doubt be given chances this season but he has to improve, or I would move him on. There are better players ,FFS Flanno would have been a better option.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #305 on: August 15, 2016, 10:39:24 pm »
Paul Joyce saying Klopp won't buy anyone and is going to stick with Moreno.

Good luck lads. Feel sorry for whoever gets the graveyard shift of playing LCB.
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Offline lorenzo

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #306 on: August 15, 2016, 10:44:46 pm »
Paul Joyce saying Klopp won't buy anyone and is going to stick with Moreno.

Good luck lads. Feel sorry for whoever gets the graveyard shift of playing LCB.
Guess that makes everyone look slightly stupid......

Offline MrRaptorTurtle

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #307 on: August 15, 2016, 10:47:49 pm »
I like him, just don't think he can defend very well, would play him as a Left winger.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #308 on: August 15, 2016, 10:49:29 pm »
He'll score the winning goal to win us the league this season calling it now.Hes still the best left back we've had in about 10 years and he's not even really a left back.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #309 on: August 15, 2016, 10:51:17 pm »
Paul Joyce saying Klopp won't buy anyone and is going to stick with Moreno.

Good luck lads. Feel sorry for whoever gets the graveyard shift of playing LCB.

Excellent.

I, for one, welcome the increased opportunities to slag Moreno off that this will surely bring. Klopp's played an absolute blinder here.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #310 on: August 15, 2016, 10:55:09 pm »
How about playing as a proper LB for a few games instead of getting him to go forward as much as he does?. Can tell then if he is or ever will be a proper LB...I seriously cant believe Klopp wont even consider getting competition of that Joyce comment is correct.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #311 on: August 15, 2016, 10:59:54 pm »
I have nothing against him but the boy is a liability and will cost us goals. I don't even think he is that great making decisions when attacking either.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #312 on: August 15, 2016, 10:59:56 pm »
https://twitter.com/LFCImpulse/status/765135567717670912

I, for one do not feel confident with Moreno at LB. Those two footed scissor tackles and rash slide tackles..however, on this one I do not think it is his fault; those three at the back need to communicate better defensively.

Secondly, it is obvious Klopp's system is the counter fast (probably one of the main reasons we play three attackers and signed Mane) and Moreno (probably top 2 fastest player) is a key component of this system.. he will get caught out but our defensive setup from a failed counter attack needs to be worked on. I am sure Klopp will sort it.

Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #313 on: August 15, 2016, 11:01:13 pm »
Klopp putting faith in Moreno and I think quite a few people in here can learn a thing or two from him.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #314 on: August 15, 2016, 11:02:16 pm »

 Not two steady dependable full backs. Klopp will believe with training he can iron out the problems with Moreno that come down to "he isnīt very smart, is he?" simply because you can train a grunt into being an elite soldier. Itīs just training training and training.

Umm... not a huge expert, but I really don't think you can. You can train a grunt into a decent soldier, but from everything I understand to be a truly elite soldier you have to be both highly athletic and highly intelligent or you will get people killed in the dangerous places you are fighting in. There are plenty of good to decent soldiers who simply can't hack it no matter how much you train them and the elite units will cut them ruthlessly when they can't pass purely intelligence testing.

I get the appeal to Moreno, I really do, but I don't see him ever learning it's been too long. I even remember Seville fans weren't exactly fewmin in anger when they sold him. He always seems to want to spear head the attack when all he should be doing is supporting, big difference, even when we should be seing out results. And his tackles are painfully rash when he can just push them away from goal, which has nothing to do with Klopp's gameplan.

IMO I've seen Klopp get too angry with him to believe this is all Klopp's master plan and fully believe that Klopp just doesn't like the market for left fullbacks at the moment and would rather give Milner a chance there.   
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 11:04:23 pm by trimore »
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #315 on: August 15, 2016, 11:03:22 pm »
Never expected Moreno to be replaced nor doubted that he would remain first-choice for the foreseeable future at least.

I hoped we'd get some competition for him rather than shoehorn Milner in there, particularly as he's made it clear that he doesn't want to play at full-back.  Hopefully we don't regret the decision to do that regardless.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 11:05:58 pm by Djimi Smicer »

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #316 on: August 15, 2016, 11:06:03 pm »
It's all well and good putting faith in him but he always seems like he's seconds away from defensive blunder. I'm sure there have been others but of the top of my head he has made the exact same mistake against Arsenal, Man City and Sevilla. I just don't think he's ever going to get it. I mean, you can't really teach footballing intelligence. If Klopp does somehow get him performing at a high level defensively then he's pretty much the complete package as a wing-back.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #317 on: August 15, 2016, 11:07:00 pm »
Poor fullback. Top wing-back.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #318 on: August 15, 2016, 11:07:23 pm »
I think it's a mistake from Klopp but I hope he & Moreno prove me wrong.

Offline mc_red22

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #319 on: August 15, 2016, 11:07:43 pm »
He'll score the winning goal to win us the league this season calling it now.Hes still the best left back we've had in about 10 years and he's not even really a left back.

That's just damn right depressing.